Almost everyone now knows that the 5001 is a beastly reel with claims of drag power up to 40 pounds. It sort of left the ol' 5000 in the dust, but in no way does that make the 5000 undesirable, at least not to me. The 5000 is the same reel other than those drags, and can be easily improved with a bit of tinkering. Sourcing the parts to tinker with may be the largest hurdle, as parts for these reels are a tougher find. Fred may have the keyed metal washers, that is the only stock part you'll need an extra piece of.
I got lucky and got a 5000 with an extra spool...so I had two full sets of drags to build from. It's a single friction disc set up, and tiny to boot! I tested both spools "as is"...before any modding work...and both produced a smooth usable drag to about five pounds. That's the point where it all goes to hell. Any further power resulted in a lot of start up and chattering, the power maxing at 10 pounds, but slipping from 6-10 lbs. and uncontrollable.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50308386431_0bebf178aa_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2jDzCyX)
The stock friction disc is a felt asbestos, and from what I gathered can be made to perform as well as carbon fiber...but...it is asbestos. Since the Penn #56-710 is a drop in replacement, that is what I'll use.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50308547397_21bf769344_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2jDAsqe)
By ditching the spring washer and adding another keyed washer, a 3-stack of carbon fiber drags drops right in.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50308547367_0b34103487_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2jDAspH)
Now we have almost doubled the power, but things are still not smooth. The washer under the spool is the culprit, which is also asbestos, but not a felt. The compression of felt would be a problem here, allowing the spool to travel and affect line lay. This hard asbestos washer has a very rough finish. I've found that smoothing this washer does wonders for the drag performance. If working asbestos makes you nervous, I suggest replacing this washer with some type of smooth hard material.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50308547307_3c68b7e34a_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2jDAsoF)
After smoothing this washer, the stock set up became very silky, topping out at 8 pounds. The 3-stack set up made 15 pounds. This washer is glued to the bottom of the spool, so if you intend to reuse it, be careful prying it loose.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50307710128_4a971df1f7_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2jDwawy)
It is very important to keep the height of this washer correct. It has to be above the spool edge.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50308547042_d3dc150c15_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2jDAsj7)
And here is why...if that brass washer rubs on the spool...I think you get my point.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50308385861_5cb7f75d0f_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2jDzCp8)
I gotta show off my under hood work a little bit too! Below is a "before/after." ;D
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50308386046_90abfda287_n.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2jDzCsj)(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50307709993_99dd3b32ff_n.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2jDwaue)
Having 15 pounds of very usable drag makes this reel a fantastic piece to fish...if you ever decide to pull it off the shelf. 8)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50308385841_1c9632b893_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2jDzCoM)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50308385941_bf971832e2_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2jDzCqv)
That's a purty one man. Great job on the breakdown and upgrade as usual.
hmmm... is there a coil spring in the big red knob? what's the underside look like?
"By ditching the spring washer", you say? that has never worked for me,
unless I also upgraded the knob from "solid" to spring-loaded
(granted, I'm neither a DAM, nor Big Game guy... regrettably)
Quote from: philaroman on September 05, 2020, 06:06:23 PM
hmmm... is there a coil spring in the big red knob?
Yes, there is a coil spring in the red drag knob. Combine that with the "squish" of three HT-100s, and believe me, you'll never miss that spring washer. I actually would prefer a little less range...it comes on really slow.
Nice work as usual Mo and a beautiful reel.
Greg
This is fantastic stuff you've done here Mike. Great pics, looks professionally done ! Any one else think this is worthy of being stickied ? ... Jeff
Quote from: Rivverrat on September 06, 2020, 12:22:20 AM
This is fantastic stuff you've done here Mike. Great pics, looks professionally done ! Any one else think this is worthy of being stickied ? ... Jeff
Yes, I will second that Jeff.
Hey Mo, would you have a schematic for the 5000?
Greg
Quote from: basto on September 06, 2020, 01:10:23 AM
Hey Mo, would you have a schematic for the 5000?
Yes Greg...Fred posted the Champion schematics on my 1000 ultralight thread. 8)
https://alantani.com/index.php?topic=26628.msg304467#msg304467
Hi Mo,
What is the flat to opposing flat sides measurement? Wondering if the PENN 700 hex washer is the same size.
Bryan
Quote from: Bryan Young on September 06, 2020, 04:15:57 PM
What is the flat to opposing flat sides measurement? Wondering if the PENN 700 hex washer is the same size.
Without even checking...I'll gamble and say no Bryan. These drags are tiny...same size as a 720. Also those Penn washers are octagon where this reel uses a hexagon.
Oh. My bad.
Quote from: mo65 on September 05, 2020, 04:23:40 PM
The washer under the spool is the culprit, which is also asbestos, but not a felt. The compression of felt would be a problem here, allowing the spool to travel and affect line lay. This hard asbestos washer has a very rough finish. I've found that smoothing this washer does wonders for the drag performance. If working asbestos makes you nervous, I suggest replacing this washer with some type of smooth hard material.
Asbestos can work great in some cases. I've kept and utilized asbestos washers from certain reels, particularly the stock asbestos undergear washers on the old Shimano Bantam baitcasters, as they work so smoothly (greased), but also the thickness is often more perfect than carbon fiber or delrin upgrades which can affect the mesh of the gears and the position of the a/r dog. I don't sand them, though, as they are in the form of woven fiber. No functional problems during all the years I've used them.
Mo, thanks for the schematics.
Greg
Quote from: wfjord on September 06, 2020, 07:53:15 PM
...particularly the stock asbestos undergear washers on the old Shimano Bantam baitcasters
how old? ...just the oldest metal Bantams, or should I take a closer look at my graphite Coriolis (early/mid 80's)?
thks.
Quote from: philaroman on September 06, 2020, 08:42:50 PM
Quote from: wfjord on September 06, 2020, 07:53:15 PM
...particularly the stock asbestos undergear washers on the old Shimano Bantam baitcasters
how old? ...just the oldest metal Bantams, or should I take a closer look at my graphite Coriolis (early/mid 80's)?
thks.
I don't know about the Coriolis models; I think they date from around '92 to 2003. Might be good to have a look inside.
All my Bantams are from the early to mid '80s; mostly metal --all metal internals, graphite/plastic left side palming plate. The under gear asbestos washer is a white/off white color when cleaned up.
Thanks Mike, for the nice clear pics as usual, & all the best of info, Woody thanks for your info to, cheers Don.