Is it possible to reduce the gear ratio on a Senator 114HLW?
The stock gear ratio is 2.8 to 1. I would like to reduce it to a 2 to 1 if possible. Is there a set of gears that will fit and work to lower the gear ratio?
The senator 114 has a 2.1 to 1 gear ratio. However, those gears will not work in a 114HLW because the spools are different.
Thank you for any suggestions.
just get a black side plate 114!
Not that I know of, I tried a while back using the 13-115 pinion in the 114H and it didn't work. Very close, but not good enough.
Sounds like you will be doing some heavy lifting with those, I would recommend getting yourself a 115L, it's about 5oz heavier but a little slower, 2.5:1, which is very close to what you're looking for.
The 115 would be better suited for you, more line retrieve per crank at almost the same speed.
My 114WEX is the same width as my 115 and very close in weight.
Yes, I have several black side plate 114 Senators. I wanted the same gear ratio and line recovery per handle turn, but in a wide version.
The 115 is heavier and has about the same line recovery as the 114HLW. It is not what I am looking for.
I could also fish the 114HLW by filling the spool 2/3 with line. That will give it more cranking power, but will also reduce the line capacity. In which case I could just use a 114.
Thank you.
The 114 is a nice reel, but not as capable as the 114H and 115, in my opinion anyway. Replacing the black plates doesn't help, the spool shaft on the 114H is much beefier than the 114 and the right side is longer. The 115 has a stronger pinion, but like you've said, it is a little heavier, about 5oz. more. The additional 5oz wouldn't bother me much but, but it does on some. Good luck on your search, I hope you find what you're looking for.
Have you considered a longer handle for more leverage??
Yes, I already installed a longer handle (from the Daiwa Sealine 900H). Those 900H handles work great on the Senator 114 series reels.
As I stated, I am basically looking to make a Senator 114 in a wide version. The 114 main gear will work. The problem is with the 114 pinion gear. It will not mesh with the 114 hlw spool.
Thank you all for your input.
The bottom line is that, if you guys do not know of a way to do it, then it cannot be done.
Regards
You can try to drill out the 114 pinion gear.
Filling your spool with Spectra will give your more line capacity than with mono.
I will take a close look at the gears and maybe a machine shop can make the necessary modifications so that the 114 gears will work in the 114hlw.
I was hoping that I could use a set of gears, possibly from some older or discontinued penn reel that would work. However, it does not look like there are any.
I cannot use spectra for my application.
Thank you all.
Quote from: Keta on September 22, 2014, 10:04:12 PM
You can try to drill out the 114 pinion gear.
Filling your spool with Spectra will give your more line capacity than with mono.
I just remembered that the 114 has the same pinion as the 115.
It won't be easy slowing down the 114H, but anything is possible. One think I could tell you about mixing gears from other reels to make them work will cost you money :-\
There are two possibilities that were stated:
1. Drill out the 114 pinion gear; or
2. Get a machine shop to machine the spindle on the 114hlw spool so that it will be the same as the spindle on the spool of the 114. If i do this, I will also have to change the side plates because the 114 has bushings and not bearings.
I will start by taking a hard look at the 114 pinion gear and see if drilling it out will work. That may be the easiest to do.
Thank you for all the replies.
I'm going to recommend that you let this one go. There isn't anything wrong with the ID on the 114-114H and 115 pinion, they should all fit both, the problem is that it won't help anything. To lower the gear you will usually need a wider pinion or narrower main gear, but the dimensions need to be the same as the stock gears when you hold them together. If you're still set on getting a wider spool for the 114, that could be done, but you'll need a machinist.
I'm sure no machinist will take on the responsibility if the spool fails and it might not be cheap.
I tried it myself on a 113, using a 113H spool and killed a brand new spool :-\
I believe that option 2 would work if there is enough material to make the 114 pinion fit. I think someone did something like this on here before for another reel. Basically, you could take a 114 spool and a 114HLW spool to a machine shop and have them make the HLW look exactly like the 114 on both sides (I believe only the right side will need to be modified.) Then you could bolt up the black side plates with factory gears. I don't know what gear sleeve the 114 uses but if it is available in stainless it would be a big plus.
I'm not sure what your fishing for, but this is a spendy solution that may or may not be worth it.
Ron
O.K. guys, I will report back on how I make out with this. I realize that the squeeze may not be worth the juice, but I am still going to try it. We have a long winter coming up and spending time tinkering with my fishing reels is a good way to pass the time on those cold winter evenings.
I am looking for maximum cranking power in a 6/0 wide star drag reel. I already installed a long handle. I have a steel main gear from a 114, SS dog and a SS gear sleeve. If I can install a SS 114 pinion gear and leave the original spool spindle the same thickness, I will have accomplished my goal. The gear reduction will increase the cranking power by 25% (21" vs. 28" line recovery per handle turn).
While many guys are looking for higher gear ratio, I am looking for a lower gear ratio. My goal is to catch a 250 to 300 lbs big eye with this reel. I have caught them with 50W and 80W two speed reels. It is time to try something different. A friend of mine caught a 300# with this exact same reel with the original 2.8 to 1 gear ratio. It took him more than 2 hours to land that fish. With the lower gear ratio, I think I can do it in less time (and hopefully not have a heart attack during the fight).
Regards
Marc, in the hands of a skilled machinist, I believe that turning the spindle of a 114HLW to fit a 114 is possible. One of our other members (John 2244) went the other way and modified a narrow Tiburon 114H spool so he could make his 114 narrower than stock. Judging from his experience, the wider spool mod is feasable.
George
Here is a link to John's reel. John, I hope you don't mind me promoting your reel.
http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=6674.msg56739#msg56739
Why exactly does not fit?
Juswonderin.
.
Quote from: Robert Janssen on September 23, 2014, 04:40:42 PM
Why exactly does not fit?
Juswonderin.
.
Doc, the spool shaft on the right side on the 29L-114H is longer than the 29L-114 and thicker at the tip on both sides.
If I understand Mark correctly, he's trying to make the standard 114 spool wider, He's also trying to slow the ratio on the 5-114. The spool is very much possible, but the gears, I'm not so sure.
I knew I had seen that done before, I was thinking it was on a 4/0. If you do this I think it would be really cool. However, there are really big drag stacks available hor the 114H now as well as versa-drag systems. The extra drag of the H reel may be more of a benefit than the slower gears.
Ron
Ron, you've also seen it here, something similar but not as successful.
http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=9979.msg93535#msg93535
I spent some time looking at the possibilities to reduce the gear ratio on this reel and this is where I am at, so far:
1. Replace the gears with the 114 (black side plates reel) gears: This will not work because the 114 gears inside the 114H will not mesh together. The 114 pinion gear fits great on the 114H spool spindle. However, the diameter of the 114 main gear is too narrow and will not engage with the pinion gear. As Sal correctly pointed out in a prior post, the two substitute gears must be the same combined diameter, when placed together, as the original gears. In this case, the diameter of the 114 gears is about 3/16 inch shorter than the 114H gears.
2. Mill down the right side of the 114H spool spindle so that it will fit inside the bushing of a 114 right side plate: This is an option (and it will work because one of our members did this to make a narrow 114). However, I hesitate to do this because I am afraid that it will weaken the spool spindle. I will be using this reel to fish for medium size tuna. Under high drag pressure, I may run the risk that the thinner spool spindle will bend. Maybe, my fear is unfounded because I caught many medium bluefins with stock 114 reels and I never had this happen. I dunno.
3. Re-bore the bushing hole on the 114 side plate and insert a bearing: It may be possible to unscrew the bushing and drill out the hole of the 114 side plate (to the same diameter as the 114H hole) and insert a 114H cap and bearing.
Before I ruin a perfectly good 114 side plate, any thoughts as to whether option 3 may work?
Thank you.
I didn't realize that the 114 pinion will fit the 114H spool "boss" (if yjat is in fact what it is called. It seems like the best idea would be to use a 114HLW tube framed fram and spool and bolt on a 114 set of black side plates. If there is enough meat on the 114H spool shaft a machine shop should be able to make it the correct configuration to fit the black side plates for almost nothing. Get a SS gear sleeve and dog, run steel 114 gears and make up a 5+1 or better drag stack. Your done.
Ron
I just looked at the 114 right side plate and the bushing retainer hole does not have enough material around it to accept a 114H cap and bearing.
Maybe a smaller diameter bearing?
Ron, what you mentioned is what I stated as option #2. That will work. My only concern is that it may weaken the spindle. (Although, I have doubts as to whether that is a legitimate concern.)
The 114 pinion gear will work fine on the 114H spool spindle. It is the end of the 114H spool spindle that will not work on the 114 bushing. Unless it is milled down.
Marc, The 114h spool would have to be turned down on the ends to fit the bushings. The shaft on one side would also have to be shortened. On a narrow reel I don't think it would cause any problem. That may be a different story on a wide reel. Of course I have been wrong in the past and I am sure I'll be wrong again. ;D Bob
I really don't see an issue with the bushing diameter. The spool just isn't so much wider that it would dramatically increase the torque on the spool. Especially if you used a one piece frame. I think the weakest link would be the bronze in the bushing and a fish isn't going to crush that. I really think you'd be fine.
Ron
I will take the 114HLW spool to a machine shop and have the spindle milled down to fit the 114 bushing. I will report back on how the reel performs after I catch a couple of medium size tuna with it.
Thank you all for your advice. I greatly appreciate it.