Tools of the trade yamaha lube and drag grease a must!!
I lubricate all screws with corrosion x to prevent breakage
NOTE: broken quadrant screw
Remove handle locking plate (key #: 110A)
Remove handle screw using penn reel tool (key #: 23)
Remove bridge cover (key #: 124)
NOTE: salt intrusion
More salt intrusion
Remove right side plate assembly (key #: 1)
NOTE: hardened grease, salt intrusion on inside of right plate assembly
Remove spool assembly (key #: 29L)
Drag washer (key #: 117)
It's hard to see, but more salt on clicker plate (key #: 81)
salt, salt, and MORE salt!
even MORE salt.
Spool bearings (key #: 55), not even worth trying to save
I use WD40 to wash and lubricate all parts except drag washer before reassembling
Main gear assembly
Broken quadrant screw after removal
Remove shields and grease bearings reinstall shields
Repacked bearings before reinstalling shields
Light coat of grease on spool
I used locktite only on these screws because i found a few that have come loose
Grease the drag washer
Finished drag washer
Left plate assembly key #: 27
Lets install the main gear assembly,be sure to lube stud key # : 134 and coupling plate key #:119
Install main gear first, then shaft
Attach connecting plate(key #: 119 to drive gear (key #: 5)
Both side plates, lightly coated with grease to prevent salt damage
Completed right side plate assmebly
Install pinion shaft in spool NOTE: added 5th belleville washer () () Stock configuration changed to: ((())
Spool sleeve made from alluminum
Install drag washer and cover
Install spool and left side plate assembly
Grease around pinion, just for my own peace of mind i think i have salt a phobia
Light coat of grease on clicker plate
Grease all hole's to prevent salt intrusion. i brush grease on screw threads by habit
because on reels with frames the tollerance's are tight and no place for the grease to escape.
i noticed screws hard to tighten all the way down, too much grease and force the screws will cause frame cracking in my opinion. i may be wrong but dont want to find out the hard way.
thanks alan for letting me post this on your page. i wanted to show how bad salt can be on those high dollar reels. reels take a beating trolling here in hawaii, but a little service and some prevention will go along way. i think this shows why reels should be serviced before 1st use. i am glad i could rescue these reels and i need to thank you alan for giving me the reel repair bug aloha kamu
Kamu or Alan or -
I'm rebuilding an International 50 and it has the original asbestos drag washer. Should I go with the 117DN-50 Dura Drag or the 6/1-50 HT-100? I'm not expecting to use the reel more than about 6 days a year for tuna, etc., and it will be loaded with 130# spectra. The reel looks great inside with no evidence of salt water intrusion and the drag plates are fine.
Also the spool bearings are good; pulled the seals, cleaned, lubed with reelx and made a sleeve. Will probably get new main bearings.
Kamu, thanks for doing the tutorial! 8)
Rob
Rob, change the drags. I believe that the dura-drags are greased and the ht-100s are dry.
kamu,your one of the reasons this site is so good.every time some one takes the time to post a tutorial all fishermen and ladies around the world benefit.how about it ladies,who will be the first ::)
use the dura and cal's you know the drill lol. thanks for all the possitive comments everyone. alan deserves the credit, most of you who started here know what i mean.
aloha
kamu
Kamu, Alan
Have you ever had to change the pre-program key pin for the. A friend of mine says it should be changed every so often, but I have never heard that before or seen it mentioned on this site.
Thanks
Ron
Quote from: kamuwela on January 27, 2011, 09:06:59 AM
use the dura and cal's you know the drill lol. ......
aloha
kamu
Aloha kamu. That's what I needed to know. ;)
Mahalo,
Rob
anykine is this ron? anways if you are talking about the cam follower locating pins, then yes. i have seen a few lately showing its age. salt water enters through the right side plate just under the handle,and into the right side plate. check the main shaft bearings, right plate bearing, cam housing,cam follower and locating pins.
Thanks Kamu,
The reel looked pretty good, very little salt. I just didn't think those pins actually wore out. I never had to change on my reels, but he wanted to change on his penn 80s.
Ron
they dont actually wear out. they get corroded then hang up in the grooves of the cam housing.when adjusting the drag youll notice it doesnt return to free spool easily. most wont even notice, untill backing off the preset. i have seen a few st's that had to replace the cam housing and follower due to salt intrusion. like everything else its all about maintance. see you in the harbor, good luck.
Kamuwela,thanks for what you contribute to this site. I'm still green and catching up on previus posts.You guys make it so easy to take a chance on working on reels. Although some repair men post here, I wonder if most repair shops like this or hate it. Keep up your great work. I would like the opportunity to meet you someday when I am back in Hawaii re-visiting our honey moon spot, as we do every so often. Take care, Sal
Alan, thanks for this great site, love it!
i think this is the best possible thing that could happen for a repair shop. guys will look at this and say "hey, i can do this myself" and buy parts. other guys will look at this and say "no way!" and bring it in. and others will still wait until their reels are too far gone, no matter what. raise the awareness and you will bring in more business.
Alan, not to bring politics into the picture, have you ever considered running for President? I think there is a nice desk there that you could still work on reels on the side.
no. i've no patience for the bs.....
Couldn't have said it better myself.
sal thanks for the great words i appreciate it more then i can say. alan deserves all the credit for helping me get started and a better repair person. anytime your here let me know ill take you out on my boat
aloha
kamu
Bula KamuSan, Alan, Bryan,et all.... Got a 50TW here I've replaced a stripped gear stud & handle nut on last year.. I've noticed now that the handle/stud assembly has about 1/16-1/8" of play, in & out. Almost seems like it could use a shim or washer, or longer SpacingSleeve (key 9) like they offer for the jigmaster & senator reels. Is this a worry or is it ok to leave the play in there? Mahalo!
add a shim im sure roy's or hanapaa has some. part# 154-50.
Vinaka Kamu!!
Next question for the Board....
Dumb question of the day:
International II 50 SW 2speed ...... How does the low gear work on these reels?
Got two here to service that work fine, except One is stuck in Low, the other stuck in High
There is only the single round button to push, no twist or button to release it.... is it a push to engage & a 2nd push to disengage?
???
Many thanks
erik
the entire handle moves in and out! ;D
I believe this is a penn international 50, the 50T has the one piece frame unless I am mistaken. Thanks for the great write up Kamu.
you are right my mistake
Speaking of which, if one has a 50 can they swap in a 50T frame?
i believe the location of the screws is different.
I will service this reel soon.
I do not quite understand what does this sentence mean: "belleville washer () () Stock configuration changed to: ((())".
Couldn't find this part on the schematics.
Thanks L.
they are called spring washers and they go on the pinion gear. the washers are cupped and look simular to this ( the factory setting is ()() ill call this in out in out you can get a higher drag but it will also ramp up much faster by facing the washers all one way (((( or the happy medium (()))
Thanks a lot, now I got it.
I serviced the reel yesterday and I noticed that it has no carbon fibre drag washer, but instead a washer of the same material of the old senator washers. Obviously I did not grease that kind of drag washer.
Do you think it is advisable to upgrade it to a dura-drag?
i would change it.
it is expensive, but i would change it out.
Alan looking at the mysticparts website is this part no 117DN-50 for $34.90 or are their other parts that need to upgraded as well?
Peter
"Edited as per Moderators to correct Scott's Bait & Tackle over to their new store name Mystic Reel Parts / www.mysticparts.com"
thats all you need
The 117DN-50 should just drop in. It replaces the 117d -50 which is HT100 which replaces the HT100 drag/pressure plate that replaces the original asbestos hard disk and pressure plate. I just updated 2 50W reels with the 117D HT100 and it went smoothly.
I'm not sure how much different the performance is with the 'dura drag' material over the HT100. Coarser weave and slightly smaller drag diameter. In either case lots of drag pressure that is smooth.
Jim N.
Thanks for this info and correction. I was wondering why this looked so much like my plain 50's. Great article on rebuilding the drag!
I am about to replace the absetos drag washer with the dura drag one.
The 117DN-50 just arrived but I have a doubt... did I also have to order the 7-50 floating drag washer or I can use the one used with the absetos drag?
The one that i have is a metal washer not in bronze like the ones on 115L.
Thanks,
L.
you will need the drag plate its metal and screws to the spool. i diddnt see it on the schematic. do you have the original plate?
I changed the old absetos drag washer metal with its stone like (absetos) drag washer) with this one
https://www.mysticparts.com/Assets/images/pennparts/parts/117dn_50.jpg (https://www.mysticparts.com/Assets/images/pennparts/parts/117dn_50.jpg)
As you can see there are no screews on this thing... instead of the four screws that where on the absetos drag.
The reel have been completely rebuild (I also packed the ball bearings with grease - I finished the yamaha grease and I used Cal's is that a problem?).
I also added the 5th belleville washer to do the config that you stated in your rebuild ((())
The reel seems to be a little less smooth than before but it works.
What do you think?
"Edited as per Moderators to correct Scott's Bait & Tackle over to their new store name Mystic Reel Parts / www.mysticparts.com"
was there a metal plate or disc with the old drag washer? the most recent 50t i did had the plate screwed to the spool then the drag spring then the drag washer you have facing the spool. can you take a few pics for us? if it is not as smooth try and reconfigure the bellevilles and see if that changes anything.
This is the reel
This is the original absetos disk with its original metal washer
(http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/401/primaapertura.jpg/)
Opened inside
The new dura-drag drag washer outside 117DN-50
The new dura-drag drag washer
The new dura-drag drag washer inside with the original spring
the original floating metal washer
The reel has a problem, even if I remove the fifth bellville washer it does not come as smooth as it was and also I noticed another thing.
When I increase the drag near the strike position the reel becomes hard as hell to turn.
What did I do wrong?
Thanks a lot,
L.
the side plate bearings need to be changed. im sure its the right one but change both. when playing with higher pressures the bearings take a beating. the more you increase the drag the harder it gets? if yes then they are the culprit.
Quote from: kamuwela on July 24, 2012, 06:51:06 AM
the side plate bearings need to be changed. im sure its the right one but change both. when playing with higher pressures the bearings take a beating. the more you increase the drag the harder it gets? if yes then they are the culprit.
May I differ, or at least modify that somewhat?
No, if the bearings were fine
before one started rearranging things, and they are not fine
afterwards, then they are
not the culprit.
Increased turning resistance is in and of itself in this case completely normal; a result of increased axial pressure brought upon the bearing. It does not immediately mean that a bearing is defective.
Really, it may be preferred to have another look and ascertain that the other things were done correctly, not leastly that the belleville spring washers were installed in the correct order.
Granted, I have no idea what yours look like; maybe its old and nasty and the bearings are completely ruined to begin with.
I gotta go.
.
99% of the time when its hard to crank its the right side plate bearing. if the resistance increases as you ramp up the drag then the bearing is going bad. in other words the more you give it the harder it gets to crank. have the bearings ever been changed? those reels were first made in the late 60's and early 70's. i would put my money on the bearings. ive done a bunch of these mods and they crank like butter. reset the bellevilles to ()() and see how it cranks i bet if you set the drag to max it is still hard to crank.
Thank you guys!
Some questions:
- the bellville washers are all equal? I mean I had 4 installed and to me they are the same piece, the only thing that changes is the orientation, am I right?
- the stamement (()) means that I have to put one by one in the pinion in this order ) then ) then ( then ( so that when I look the pinion they are (())?
- The first thing that I want to try is to put the old drag washer back in place and see if I have the same problem again or something went wrong while re-assemble the other things.. what do you think? Maybe that new drag washer isnt correct for that model or has to be installed in another way.
you got it, i say in out in out refering to the curve of the washer. try the washers the drag can only go one way, facing the metal disc and dont forget the spring.
Tried all the three with no success.
1) Tried to put the old drag washer: seems to go but when I turn hard the pre-set of the drag it is almost impossibile to move the lever drag.
2) took a look to the bearing and they seem to be perfect.
3) I have a doubt i did not put all the pieces the right way when I put everything back on on the first rebuild.
L.
set the washers like this ()() then swap the spool bearings with the side plate bearings then see what happens. ill bet my pay check on the bearings.
Sorry kamu, I did not get what you want me to do.
Can you please explain in more detail? (I'm Italian) ;)
Could not work this out.
Can you suggest me someone I can send the reel to get it repaired?
(better if here in Italy).
Thanks
i am thinking you have a bad pinion bearing. lets try and switch the bearings around. try using the spool bearings in the side plates. just trade side bearings with the spool bearings. next lets put the washers back how they belong ()() this will help in troubleshooting the problem.
That would work on the handle side bearing but not on the left side plate bearing as it is a different size.The right way is (()) not))(( if you do this it could destroy the spool bearings because the load would be placed on the Ball bearings shield.
l (()) the curved side faces the bearing, there are many ways to set the belleville washers, just make sure the flat side faces away from the bearing.
Great tutorial Kamu. I have four International 50TW's. I am researching how to give them a cleaning and maintenance. Is this the right tutorial? Will they be similar to this 50T? Thanks again.
Augie
it will work they are almost identical. good luck and dont be afraid to ask questions.
Howzit, I just found this awesome forum and would like to thank everyone for sharing your knowledge and experiences. I'm attempting my first reel overhaul on a 130st and already got stuck on the dismantle. Does anyone know how to remove key no. 50 part no. 50 - 130S "SHIELD". I can't figure how to pry it off without causing any damage. Thanks
Get 2 large flathead screw drivers.
Insert one on each side under the shield.
Twist and gently pry each one at the same time to work the shield up and free of the shaft.
Thank you Tightlines666! Your screw driver trick worked perfectly. From there I kinda got the touch and wasn't too worried of damaging the reel during the dismantle. I can't wait to see how the reel will perform after I clean off all the salt and old grease (nasty). Thanks again.
Quote from: Norcal Pescador on January 27, 2011, 05:01:10 AM
Kamu or Alan or -
I'm rebuilding an International 50 and it has the original asbestos drag washer. Should I go with the 117DN-50 Dura Drag or the 6/1-50 HT-100? I'm not expecting to use the reel more than about 6 days a year for tuna, etc., and it will be loaded with 130# spectra. The reel looks great inside with no evidence of salt water intrusion and the drag plates are fine.
Also the spool bearings are good; pulled the seals, cleaned, lubed with reelx and made a sleeve. Will probably get new main bearings.
Kamu, thanks for doing the tutorial! 8)
Rob
I have a Penn 80w International circa 1982 and am considering a rebuild/upgrade as follows:
- I have seen a frame upgrade on Cal Sheets website that I am considering.
- Drag material (once I get the reel completely open to determine what kind).
- Spool Sleeve advice needed - what is the benefit of such a sleeve?All questions answered - reel is in service and performing well!
I just finished a Penn international 50T II (2 speed)
and everything is fine and all, but the curve or the jump form strike to full is pretty high, I havent measured with a scale but I calculate 3-4# at strike and at full I can barely strip some line 10-12#, I could be wrong on the numbers but what is true is that seems like if you want to fish 15# at full then strike drag might be unusable cuz its really low like 5# I guess, if you want 10# at strike then when put in full the reel feels like locked all up.
its that normal in this kind of big game reels?
beneville config is like this () ()