Hello all,
I am working today for the first time on an old Finessa. It had a bale issue which I think I've managed to sort out. Having taken apart the drag for cleaning next, I have a question about that which hopefully someone can shed some light on.
Attached below is what I found, just one washer found in the sequence indicated in the photo, between the spool spindle [which is capped with a washer itself] and the red drag nut/cap.
(https://i.imgur.com/b3bqlR2.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/gA7NrYo.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/j1VnAkq.jpg)
Is this assembly complete, or are other washers/parts missing here? I have the suspicion that something is missing but could be wrong. I've consulted schematics for the 330, as I've read they are similar to this non-numbered version of the Finessa. The 330 schematic indicates presence of several other drag components, which are lacking here. And I have not seen a schematic for this specific model anywhere, unfortunately.
Any thoughts? I didn't manage to find an answer in other threads, sorry if it's been addressed already and I missed it.
Thanks!
Bora
Just wait for Fred Foakes to reply. He is the resident DQ Guru! And yes, more than just DQ but DQ is his specialty.
Hi Bora —-
There are at least (4) versions of 280/285 Finessas in the 330 size class. And some of the spools will interchange —- and some will not.
You have an older version whic( does not have the push-button spool release. And some of these older ones did have only (1) metal washer for a drag.
In subsequent versions —- a tough resistex drag washer was also added.
The 285's had multiple drags.
Yours is an early 2-piece spool.
Tomorrow, I can take a couple apart and report back to you.
And if anything else would work —- I do have any parts needed.
Best, Fred
Your Finessa spool looks close to this early 50's one from a 250 Standard. Same single washer in the middle. In the picture you'll see 2- friction washers, that, if I remember right, I added. The little one goes underneath the bronze washer and the bigger one goes on the removable-bottom spool flange on the click gear side. See what Fred says, but I think yours is right, Bora! Welcome to the Site!
Quote from: Gfish on December 19, 2022, 04:33:35 AMYour Finessa spool looks close to this early 50's one from a 250 Standard. Same single washer in the middle. In the picture you'll see 2- friction washers, that, if I remember right, I added. The little one goes underneath the bronze washer and the bigger one goes on the removable-bottom spool flange on the click gear side. See what Fred says, but I think yours is right, Bora! Welcome to the Site!
Thank you for the warm welcomes. And it's terrific to have that insight - it does seem intuitive to me to have added those extra washers.
I always like discovering how the DNA from other models gets carried over / evolves over time, so this is very valuable information! And great to have a better sense of the age of the reel, too.
All best,
Bora
Quote from: foakes on December 19, 2022, 02:51:40 AMHi Bora —-
There are at least (4) versions of 280/285 Finessas in the 330 size class. And some of the spools will interchange —- and some will not.
You have an older version whic( does not have the push-button spool release. And some of these older ones did have only (1) metal washer for a drag.
In subsequent versions —- a tough resistex drag washer was also added.
The 285's had multiple drags.
Yours is an early 2-piece spool.
Tomorrow, I can take a couple apart and report back to you.
And if anything else would work —- I do have any parts needed.
Best, Fred
Hello Fred,
Thank you very much for your response on this. Really nice to be aware of the design context of this series of reels, and where this one fits in.
If/when you have the time to look into this some more, it would be greatly appreciated. If all components are there as is, great. If not, and if there is an opportunity to make the reel complete again or improve it, I am definitely up for doing that.
Would love to take it out trout fishing next spring.
All best,
Bora
You're fine as is with the one metal drag washer, Bora —-
Took a couple like yours apart a few minutes ago —- and there is only (1) metal washer.
Not counting the spare new old stock parts for these —-
I possibly have 50-60 various complete Finessas in 3 bins.
Plus another 40 or 50 330's in 3 other bins.
Lots of variations on these —- and all are effective and tough.
Best, Fred
Quote from: foakes on December 19, 2022, 05:47:02 PMYou're fine as is with the one metal drag washer, Bora —-
Took a couple like yours apart a few minutes ago —- and there is only (1) metal washer.
Not counting the spare new old stock parts for these —-
I possibly have 50-60 various complete Finessas in 3 bins.
Plus another 40 or 50 330's in 3 other bins.
Lots of variations on these —- and all are effective and tough.
Best, Fred
Hi Fred,
Thank you very much for taking the time to confirm that - very much appreciated!
And that is quite a collection there, really impressive. That's a tremendous resource, great to know.
I noticed in one of the photos some of the 1000 series. What are your impressions of them? I'd like to get my hands eventually on a smaller size DAM Quick for some stream fishing. My dad has a couple more old models that I'm yet to open up, although all are between 3000-5000+ size equivalent.
Thanks again,
Bora
Quote from: Bora on December 19, 2022, 08:07:55 PMQuote from: foakes on December 19, 2022, 05:47:02 PMYou're fine as is with the one metal drag washer, Bora —-
Took a couple like yours apart a few minutes ago —- and there is only (1) metal washer.
Not counting the spare new old stock parts for these —-
I possibly have 50-60 various complete Finessas in 3 bins.
Plus another 40 or 50 330's in 3 other bins.
Lots of variations on these —- and all are effective and tough.
Best, Fred
I noticed in one of the photos some of the 1000 series. What are your impressions of them? I'd like to get my hands eventually on a smaller size DAM Quick for some stream fishing.
Thanks again,
Bora
Most of the DQ's are of superior quality.
The 1000/1001 are above that level.
All metal, skirted aluminum spool, all of the best components, no shortcuts.
6.9 ounces of multi-generational quality.
I always have one with me when fishing.
Best, Fred
My Finessa also has just the single metal washer.
@CatchingNemo - Thanks for the confirmation. And still interesting difference we have in the spool backing, cork on one hand and rubber on the other. In both cases the attention to detail on these reels has really impressed me. And I guess I should get over the massive [and probably redundant] drag stacks in modern reels...
@Fred - thank you for your valuable insights, sounds like a very impressive little reel.
JMO. But I like the big multi disc drag systems found in spinning reels with the skirted spool rotors. More metal and fiber washers = more smoothness and fine tuning control. Yeah, they do add complexity, expense and extra weight. Also, I've found-out the hard way that an unsealed drag knob(either made that way, or damaged)can lead to spool corrosion from water leakage down inside those deep skirted spools.
Quote from: Gfish on December 21, 2022, 04:43:01 PMJMO. But I like the big multi disc drag systems found in spinning reels with the skirted spool rotors. More metal and fiber washers = more smoothness and fine tuning control. Yeah, they do add complexity, expense and extra weight. Also, I've found-out the hard way that an unsealed drag knob(either made that way, or damaged)can lead to spool corrosion from water leakage down inside those deep skirted spools.
I agree with Greg on the drags. Particularly the skirted spool aluminum spooled ones with a LARGE drag top & under-spool.
However, these earlier models with catch fish very effectively —- and are nothing to sneeze at.
Both systems are reliable, capable, strong, and effective.
There is, IMO, a lot of satisfaction in fishing and landing large fish with these older, original reels —- that are as good today as they were 60 years ago.
There are only a handful of reel brands in the world that will weather the test of decades —- and after restoring like Bora is doing —- just keep working effectively for decades to come.
DAM Quick is one of these few brands.
Best, Fred
Quote from: Gfish on December 21, 2022, 04:43:01 PMJMO. But I like the big multi disc drag systems found in spinning reels with the skirted spool rotors. More metal and fiber washers = more smoothness and fine tuning control. Yeah, they do add complexity, expense and extra weight. Also, I've found-out the hard way that an unsealed drag knob(either made that way, or damaged)can lead to spool corrosion from water leakage down inside those deep skirted spools.
That is a good point. And I discovered precisely that kind of corrosion on the last reel I was working on...
Quote from: foakes on December 21, 2022, 04:55:27 PMQuote from: Gfish on December 21, 2022, 04:43:01 PMJMO. But I like the big multi disc drag systems found in spinning reels with the skirted spool rotors. More metal and fiber washers = more smoothness and fine tuning control. Yeah, they do add complexity, expense and extra weight. Also, I've found-out the hard way that an unsealed drag knob(either made that way, or damaged)can lead to spool corrosion from water leakage down inside those deep skirted spools.
I agree with Greg on the drags. Particularly the skirted spool aluminum spooled ones with a LARGE drag top & under-spool.
However, these earlier models with catch fish very effectively —- and are nothing to sneeze at.
Both systems are reliable, capable, strong, and effective.
There is, IMO, a lot of satisfaction in fishing and landing large fish with these older, original reels —- that are as good today as they were 60 years ago.
There are only a handful of reel brands in the world that will weather the test of decades —- and after restoring like Bora is doing —- just keep working effectively for decades to come.
DAM Quick is one of these few brands.
Best, Fred
Yes, there is something to be said about that. I really find this satisfying, especially these days when consumer items in general are all about "better, faster, lighter" but not necessarily "longer"...
My big passion before reels was [and still is] watchmaking. And I have the same sentiments towards watches from the 50s and 60s that still do fine job telling the time, despite different designs. Lots of similarities with reels, but I'm happy about one major difference: I don't have to wear a 20x magnifying glass to see what I'm actually doing with reels :)
The corrosion factor, plus the cumbersome adjustment during a play and the possibility of the drag tightening or loosening via faulty drag knob while in action (had that happen a few times in my early spinning reel days) are just the reasons why I've never been a front drag fan or user. When the drag components are protected inside the body and the adjusting knob is at the back of the reel those issues seem to never come into play. At least that has been my experience, anyway.
BTW, some of the early European reel makers had roots in watch making. Carl Borgstrom started out as a watchmaker in Svangsta, Sweeden in the Halda Watch Factory. When Halda went bankrupt in 1920 Borgstrom bought Halda's tooling and founded A.B. Urfabriken (Watch Factory 🏭) with his son, Gote. They manufactured Record Taximeters. After WWII Gote became interested in fishing reels and introduced their baitcaster and later hired Ake Murval as Production Manager and head of design. Within a year the Abu/Record 500 spinning reel was introduced and the rest is spinning reel history.
Thanks for the info.
I still have the Ben Wrights spinning reel bible around here somewhere.
Keith
Quote from: Midway Tommy on December 21, 2022, 06:17:55 PMThe corrosion factor, plus the cumbersome adjustment during a play and the possibility of the drag tightening or loosening via faulty drag knob while in action (had that happen a few times in my early spinning reel days) are just the reasons why I've never been a front drag fan or user. When the drag components are protected inside the body and the adjusting knob is at the back of the reel those issues seem to never come into play. At least that has been my experience, anyway.
BTW, some of the early European reel makers had roots in watch making. Carl Borgstrom started out as a watchmaker in Svangsta, Sweeden in the Halda Watch Factory. When Halda went bankrupt in 1920 Borgstrom bought Halda's tooling and founded A.B. Urfabriken (Watch Factory 🏭) with his son, Gote. They manufactured Record Taximeters. After WWII Gote became interested in fishing reels and introduced their baitcaster and later hired Ake Murval as Production Manager and head of design. Within a year the Abu/Record 500 spinning reel was introduced and the rest is spinning reel history.
Interesting stuff, I hadn't know that!
Thinking about it now I guess it makes sense that some of the early leaders in watchmaking [Germany, Switzerland, Sweden, France etc] also made some excellent reels in their day.
There was also significant watch industry in the UK and Russia [most of which operating on patents and tooling from the US] going back over a century at least. Anyone know of any notable historic reels coming from the UK or Russia? I suspect UK had a solid industry but not sure. Have no clue about Russia but I guess they had to come up with something...
Nit to derail the thread but You know what that means. Now you gotta develop an abu collection/addiction. They're also great reels.
Thank you Tommy. I didn't know that history. It kinda makes sense though, looking inside old abu reels that there's a watchmaker's influence.
Quote from: JasonGotaProblem on December 22, 2022, 03:41:05 PMNit to derail the thread but You know what that means. Now you gotta develop an abu collection/addiction. They're also great reels.
Thank you Tommy. I didn't know that history. It kinda makes sense though, looking inside old abu reels that there's a watchmaker's influence.
Completely agree Jason! One of my first trout fishing reels was an Abu Garcia 'Agenda' I think it was. I also had a second-hand Cardinal 807, which I think was a very good reel. But I've never had the chance to handle some of the classic examples from back in the day. It's on the bucket list for sure.
Just be aware that the majority of the post 1984 Abu Garcia reels, when production moved to Asia, are not near the quality of the pre '84 reels manufactured in Sweden. There are a few quality A/G reels that were made in Japan but you need to do some heavy research to figure out which ones they are.
Quote from: Midway Tommy on December 22, 2022, 07:12:56 PMJust be aware that the majority of the post 1984 Abu Garcia reels, when production moved to Asia, are not near the quality of the pre '84 reels manufactured in Sweden. There are a few quality A/G reels that were made in Japan but you need to do some heavy research to figure out which ones they are.
Well noted, thank you sir. Looking forward to going down that rabbit hole too!
Quote from: Bora on December 21, 2022, 05:28:18 PMQuote from: foakes on December 21, 2022, 04:55:27 PMQuote from: Gfish on December 21, 2022, 04:43:01 PMJMO. But I like the big multi disc drag systems found in spinning reels with the skirted spool rotors. More metal and fiber washers = more smoothness and fine tuning control. Yeah, they do add complexity, expense and extra weight. Also, I've found-out the hard way that an unsealed drag knob(either made that way, or damaged)can lead to spool corrosion from water leakage down inside those deep skirted spools.
I agree with Greg on the drags. Particularly the skirted spool aluminum spooled ones with a LARGE drag top & under-spool.
However, these earlier models with catch fish very effectively —- and are nothing to sneeze at.
Both systems are reliable, capable, strong, and effective.
There is, IMO, a lot of satisfaction in fishing and landing large fish with these older, original reels —- that are as good today as they were 60 years ago.
There are only a handful of reel brands in the world that will weather the test of decades —- and after restoring like Bora is doing —- just keep working effectively for decades to come.
DAM Quick is one of these few brands.
Best, Fred
Yes, there is something to be said about that. I really find this satisfying, especially these days when consumer items in general are all about "better, faster, lighter" but not necessarily "longer"...
My big passion before reels was [and still is] watchmaking. And I have the same sentiments towards watches from the 50s and 60s that still do fine job telling the time, despite different designs. Lots of similarities with reels, but I'm happy about one major difference: I don't have to wear a 20x magnifying glass to see what I'm actually doing with reels :)
That's a niche that I find very cool. I would take apart my granny's old big bend clocks and pit them back together!
Nice hobby. Definitely satisfying when all the pieces come back together to make a whole. It doesn't always happen. I guess that's part of the satisfaction, likewise with our reels.
I looked at my spare spool from the 280. Yes, as Fred already wrote, there is only one disc inside.
(https://s20.directupload.net/images/221223/g5es96uj.jpg) (https://www.directupload.net)
I also looked in my documents and found the spare parts drawing. The drawing shows the first model of the 280.
(https://s20.directupload.net/images/221223/yuzhktoe.jpg) (https://www.directupload.net)
(https://s20.directupload.net/images/221223/5gh3db8g.jpg) (https://www.directupload.net)
greeting Walter
Thanks, Walter!
Good photos.
Best, Fred
Likewise thank you Walter.
And also for the diagrams, this is a great resource.
I've checked it over and it's good to see all other components seem to be present in my reel.
By the way, any idea about when this model was first introduced? Only curious...
All best
Bora
Quote from: Bora on December 23, 2022, 05:38:36 PMLikewise thank you Walter.
And also for the diagrams, this is a great resource.
I've checked it over and it's good to see all other components seem to be present in my reel.
By the way, any idea about when this model was first introduced? Only curious...
All best
Bora
Hello Bora,
the first model of the Quick Finessa 280 came onto the market in 1957.
My oldest booklet on the reel is from September 1956.
(https://s20.directupload.net/images/221223/a46ubzis.jpg) (https://www.directupload.net/)
(https://s20.directupload.net/images/221223/okbfqpt4.jpg) (https://www.directupload.net)
greeting Walter
Quote from: Walter61 on December 23, 2022, 05:55:11 PMQuote from: Bora on December 23, 2022, 05:38:36 PMLikewise thank you Walter.
And also for the diagrams, this is a great resource.
I've checked it over and it's good to see all other components seem to be present in my reel.
By the way, any idea about when this model was first introduced? Only curious...
All best
Bora
Hello Bora,
the first model of the Quick Finessa 280 came onto the market in 1957.
My oldest booklet on the reel is from September 1956.
(https://s20.directupload.net/images/221223/a46ubzis.jpg) (https://www.directupload.net/)
(https://s20.directupload.net/images/221223/okbfqpt4.jpg) (https://www.directupload.net)
greeting Walter
Excellent, thank you very much Walter!
Amazing to think these reels still going strong 65+ yrs later.
One of my favourites for sure,