Reel Repair by Alan Tani

Let me try again , with a simple test.   Tie YOUR arbor knot on a bolt , make two additional wraps  and see if you can pull the line around the arbor "slip "
Like this .  I can not get it to slip.

Yay!  Real tests!

Quote from: Bill B on April 27, 2024, 01:41:09 AMThat's an expensive test.  Not sure what it takes to make it slip, however the common denominator is loss of drag at about 10lbs on a conventional reel.  Bill

I think that you also need a more full spool with lots of winding load, at least toward the top. Layer after layer, wraps digging in and binding to each other.  If the very first wraps are not under tension (they might relax a bit as additional layers are added, or maybe creep over time can relieve some tesion), the new load won't reach them, and now it occasionally takes less tension to spin this "puck" of spectra than to unwind the line.
 
Enough folk have had this happen at higher drag settings that the SoCal saltwater shops started taping and then flex wrapping arbors, and didn't have problems after that.  I went to a well respected SoCal shop , and they 100% flat out refused to do a spool fill for me unless they taped the arbor. Zero interest in how "some customer" might prefer to do it.  They also kindly and patiently explained to me some (wrong) stuff about how reels work. 

Flex wrapping the arbor isn't necessarily the only method that works, it is just the one that has been most widely adopted, at least out here on the West Coast.

-J

    How can I loose drag , if I can get the line to slip on the arbor ?

That's an expensive test.  Not sure what it takes to make it slip, however the common denominator is loss of drag at about 10lbs on a conventional reel.  Bill

  I have been reading a few posts about braid or line slipping on the spool arbors .  There is talk about wrapping tape to prevent this and tying to the pin or using the hole in the arbor to tie into .

So I needed to try a test of my own .  I sprayed the arbor with penetrating oil and made 2 wraps on the arbor and did a pull test .  I could not get the braid to slip . all that happen is the line snapped around 28- 30 pounds pull.  What did I do wrong ?

I tried to slip the line on my 440 dam spool and it would not slip .  I did find the fuse in the reel at 25ish pounds . It`s the cast piece at the bottom of the link bar

Wow!  Thanks Joe, never seen a spinning reel pop.  Bill

  Here is proof that mono line can jack apart a spool.    You may need to catch bigger fighting fish to experience this phenomenon .  When mono relaxes on the spool after hard drag , it subject to pop.      One of the reasons why I build aluminium spools .  Just saying it does happen ! 

Gentlemen, I strongly urge everyone to keep this discussion civil and refrain from personal attacks.  One thing that makes this forum so good is the HEALTHY dialog between accomplished fishermen and reel mechanics. 

One thing to keep in mind is the varied circumstances each of us fish in.  Whether lake, pond, stream, river, surf, offshore, etc.  Each brings its own pitfalls.

After reading through this thread I see four different fishing types.

What works for the stream fisherman does not necessarily cross over to off shore tuna, and visaversa.

Personally I have seen a Penn 85 with a plastic spool, Penn Jigmaster with plastic spool, and a second generation J.A.Coxe with a three piece metal spool, all suffer breakage from mono contraction.  All three are conventional (multiplier) reels.

However I have never seen a spinning reel suffer damage from mono.

The end result here, is you may disagree with someone else's opinion and they may disagree with yours.  So be it, but keep it civil.

Bill

Maybe I was too harsh, but I still find the idea that monofilament, the #1 most popular fishing line in the world for longer than any other type of fishing line ever, is somehow going to damage a spool that wasn't already trash is ridiculous. I am sorry I said Tommy was from California, it looks like I saw Brewcrafters location by accident. It is kind of odd now that I see Tommy is from Nebraska, me from South Dakota, we are practically neighbors. I'm quite confident nobody around here is running giant conventional reels with plastic spools and 40 pound mono backing. The biggest fish we have is blue catfish, and I've never seen a catfish guy running a setup like that.

So while maybe there may be a small special circumstances where mono may not be the idea backing, I am fully confident it is the best choice for the other 98% of the time, and pretty much 100% of the time around here in South Dakota and Nebraska. Since this is a Penn spinfisher thread, I really, really doubt the 710 plastic spool is going to be harmed by anything, there's nothing thin or frail about it. Plastic spools are pretty rare on the other spinfishers from what I've seen. All of the Z series have aluminum spools.

I too have got away with running braid straight on an aluminum spool, but I think it depends on what line you are using. It really comes down to how waxy it is. Something like Berkley x9 I don't think would hold onto a spool well at all. Since we don't have corrosion issues, I don't see any reason to not use electrical tape, or flex tape, or whatever other rubbery type stuff you have. Since I always choose reels a little bigger than needed, and only like to put 150 yards or meters of line on, I almost exclusively use mono backing on my reels.

Yes we have it pretty easy for gear care in fresh water it seems. There's a lot of things I would never have thought about. I have fished in Florida and Texas in salt water, but it doesn't seem any harm comes from a single trip. You might be surprised how hard musky guys can be on reels. A lot of the most popular lures are over 10 ounces. There's some over a full pound. That's not what I call easy on the spool. Before super braid, a lot of those guys ran dacron braid, not because it saved the spool, but because it has the same advantages as super braid such as low stretch. Muskies are not particularly line shy or deep water fish, so it worked really well. Nowadays most guys are running super heavy braids like 80 pound, more just to handle the lures. The fish fight itself is nothing by comparison.

If you put enough nylon backing on an old plastic spool, and pack it tight enough, you run the risk of busting the spool.  The risk varies by spool model, the thickness of the line and how much tension that you load it under. Us saltwater guys that packed 40 lb mono onto plastic conventional reel spools and pulled harder on bigger fish broke them regularly.  I agree with the OP's point about spools not blowing up  left and right despite the near universal use of nylon line.  I suspect that this failure is less common for the average trout, bass or musky fisherman that don't put much load on the spool, and spinning reel spool shapes are generally vulnerable to this type of failure than  conventional spools.  But specific models might be more of a risk, especially as they age.

As to moisture:  Nylon is capable of absorbing a significant amount of moisture.  If the moisture goes in, the line gets bigger. But if the line is already packed tight, it won't absorb as much moisture. Sort of like a sponge that is squeezed absorbing less water. And wet nylon becomes more malleable and elastic. I don't see moisture as a major contributor to the risk, but this is sort of a moot point.  The risk is nylon expansion, regardless of the exact mechanism.


Now let's get back to using nylon backing.  Assuming that you want to minimize the risk:

The farther from the arbor, the more leverage on the spool walls, so if you are using a modest amount of nylon, not much risk to a vulnerable spool.  So the nylon question comes into play if you are using it for a significant amount of filler.

As to the arbor and tape/wrap/short section of nylon:

Many of us here believe that tape or a short section of nylon to prevent braid slipping is not really necessary.  You just need a couple extra wraps before the arbor knot and a slightly longer tag.  There is debate on this exact topic on this site, and I would invite you to read up on it a bit and decide for yourself.

Applying tape can unbalance a smaller conventional spool, and in saltwater, tape, and to a lesser extent stretch wrap,  can keep saltwater from fully evaporating, and wet and salty  (an electrolyte solution) corrodes metals much more quickly than dry and salty.  But this is primarily a concern with metal spools in saltwater.

Quote from: slugmeister on April 26, 2024, 10:33:38 PMDo you have to rinse off your reels when you get home?

You freshwater guys have it too easy!   Fighting corrosion is a losing battle, but it is the primary concern in saltwater reel maintanence.  I usually soak myreels in a bucket of warm fresh water one a week, but most folk here prefer a gentle wash and more frequent breakdown/clean/reasembly.  Many recommend unspooling braid and trying to desalt it at the end of the season. spools are coated with grease or wax as well.


-J