Will I did it again >:( Went out this past weekend and did not put the scales on the drags to test. Drags were set to tight and snap big fish gone :'( If I'm using 50 lb# braid main line and 50 fluorocarbon leader what should I set my drags at? Also should I use 80 or 100 # fluoro ??? I'm using my 113 h with greased carbon drags any one? I did catch some nice flounder with the 505 :)we were fishing in 65 ft around rooks and coral.
AS a general rule, set the drag at no more than 25% - 33% of the breaking strength of the line, so something like 15# of drag with 50# line is max.
Where is the line breaking? At the knot? It possibly could be the knot and not the line. Good knots where the line does not criss cross cutting itself takes practice. I've tied a bunch of knots and when I re-inspected them, 50% had to be re-tied. Now, I take my time tying knots and have to re-tie maybe 1%-5% at most.
Assuming that you are using knots that are 90%-100% of line strength, I would sent my drags at 18# on the rod angled at a 45 deg., or 15# at the reel only. Whether you use heavier leader has it pluses and minuses based on type of fishiing. If you are live-bating, the lighter the leader the better. If trolling, it doesn't matter much of the line thickness.
I agree with AKFISH (Bill) 15# max. But, I never start out fishing with max drag. When flylining live bait I like to start with a lighter drag setting knowing I can move up. I would probably start out fishing 8 to 10# of drag and move up if needed. This may not be the way most people do it but it is the way I like to fish. Also, as the fish is taking line your drag # is increasing. If you are fishing 50# line and have your drag set at 15# with a full spool of line you will have approx. 22# of drag with a half spool of line. With a near empty spool of line your drag will now be in the range of 42# of drag. But, if I am yo-yo fishing for yellowtail then I will start with a heavy drag so I can stop the fish before he cuts me off in the rocks.
John
Quote from: Bryan Young on May 10, 2012, 07:46:51 PM
Where is the line breaking? At the knot? It possibly could be the knot and not the line. Good knots where the line does not criss cross cutting itself takes practice. I've tied a bunch of knots and when I re-inspected them, 50% had to be re-tied. Now, I take my time tying knots and have to re-tie maybe 1%-5% at most.
Assuming that you are using knots that are 90%-100% of line strength, I would sent my drags at 18# on the rod angled at a 45 deg., or 15# at the reel only. Whether you use heavier leader has it pluses and minuses based on type of fishiing. If you are live-bating, the lighter the leader the better. If trolling, it doesn't matter much of the line thickness.
Knots are driving me crazy! What is the best not to use with 50 to 60# floro I do bottom and flat line fishing. I always cinch the knot down good on my work bench.
G'day broschro,
There are options aplenty and everyone has their favourites.
The choice also depends what you're fishing for, how and where etc.
As a starting point, however, the Uni is an easy-to-tie, good-quality knot for most applications.
http://www.animatedknots.com/uniknot/index.php (http://www.animatedknots.com/uniknot/index.php)
Don't forget to moisten the knot before cinching it down.
Good luck, Justin
PS The Palomar is also an easy, reliable knot which retains a high degree of line strength.
http://www.animatedknots.com/palomar/index.php (http://www.animatedknots.com/palomar/index.php).
Palmer knot is a good easy knot. Make sure that the line does not cross over itself or it will loose at least 25% of it's knot strength. My first try, 15# test broke at 10#s. The prostaffer showed me my errors and retied and was able to get 17-21#.
you know this is one of the reasons i mainly use lever drag reels.
aside from the knots,
you can set the drag at 33% but only use the lever drag 1/2 way
to strike,or just engage,strike or the full monty.
simple method without changing the drag knob.
not like eggbeaters or star drags.
trolling is a good e.g.
set on strike for hook up then ease lever back for the fight
Hi, I will try to base this on your original statement.
Spectra to mono, or Fluorocarbon knot strength is usually in the 74% range. So if you go up one size in you Spectra 40 mono with 50 Spectra , this approaches the rated mono, or Fluoro strength. The knots in Spectra are the weak link. That is not a bad but a simplistic solution.
There are many variables, hollow or solid Spectra, type of connection, ability of the person making the connection. Notice I did not use the word KNOT.
There are several connection methods in Hollow Spectra that produce a 100% connection of the actual breaking strength of the weakest material. Also was mentioned was heavier mono/Fluoro attached to Spectra might be tried. This is usually used as a leader application, and is best used for toothy critters, or abrasion. As you tie a hook/lure on the heavier mono the weak link is the Spectra connection. There is always a weak link. There are several great knots to tie hooks, etc. on mono/ Fluoro the one the wins contests is the one tied on the best piece of mono.
So I ask guys do you want a 100% knot at the hook? If so do you care if you loose 20,30,40 bucks of Fluorcarbon, or a two dollar hook.
Back to your frustration, Assuming you are using solid Spectra go up one size in Spectra Tie a double Uni with about 4 turns in the mono, and 8 in the Spectra. If that gives you a problem going thru the guides learn to tie a 16 turn Albright. A lift time and a very large book can be written on the subject.
Hope this rambling helps.
If I'm forced to tie knots for my mono/Fluro to Spectra connections it is usually a double uni. I prefer hollow Spectra and knotless connections.
I don't use a drag scale for setting drags on star drag reels often and do it by feel, one of these days it will cost me a fish. When I do use a scale it's as 30% of stated line strength, or rod rating if I'm fishing heavy for rod line.
Thanks guys I'm using 50#braid to 50 or 60# leader fluorocarbon or big game. I tie the main line to leader using the uni .the last time this happened I had the hook on with the uni snel l. I think I will go with the Palomar knot next.
Your leader should be lighter than your braid so you don't leave braid behind when you break off.
Must have been the moon, I broke off on 40 pound last weekend myself. I test knots, tie and retie, check drags with scale, and still get my heart broken by a stupid mystery fish. At least my spectra knot held.
Tight lines, Brendan.
Quote from: Brendan on May 12, 2012, 02:27:35 PM
Must have been the moon, I broke off on 40 pound last weekend myself. I test knots, tie and retie, check drags with scale, and still get my heart broken by a stupid mystery fish. At least my spectra knot held.
Tight lines, Brendan.
I will cheek with the scale for now on! Lost two big something or others back to back using big live grunts for bait. hate the feeling when you are buckled over and snap :'( :'(
jamie, i use a 5-turn uni knot for mono and a palomar for fluorocarbon. the palomar has 2 lines aroud the eye of the hook or swivel. it is important that those two lines do not cross over each other. if you do, you will cut the strength of the palomar down to 50%.
Solid spectra to mono/fluoro knot for lines over 80 lbs= a bimini to reverse albright. I should state with lines in these tests I like to go with hollow spectra and other types of connections, but you can tie hollow just like solid if you wanted too.
Spectra to mono/fluoro knot for lines 60 lbs and under= a Bob Sands knot
The uni to uni tests out as a very week connection. Don't take my word for it google knot tests and you will see it ranks very low on the strength scale. The Bob Sands knot is very easy to tie and should work great for 50 lb test.
Mono/fluoro to hook= a San Deigo knot.
Every body had their favorites but a uni to uni should not be one IMO.
Quote from: Bryan Young on May 11, 2012, 01:05:01 AM
Palmer knot is a good easy knot. Make sure that the line does not cross over itself or it will loose at least 25% of it's knot strength. My first try, 15# test broke at 10#s. The prostaffer showed me my errors and retied and was able to get 17-21#.
What do you mean by crossing it self?
The wraps to make the knot are side-by-side, not coming over the top of the one next to it.
Here is what is should look like when it tightens on the hole of your hook, swivel, etc.
I tired and tired to tie a bad palmer knot, but I think my habbit to tie is, it never come out crossed anymore. I cannot remember what I was doing to they that bad knot.
i put a half twist in it and it does not cross as often. bryan, can you show them a photo with the lines crossed?
Alan, I tried 10 times to show lines that crossed and now I cannot seem to get it to cross. I'll try again tonight.
Great, now Alan got in my head and has me wondering if I crossed the line on my Palomer knot. If your tying it right every time Bryan I wouldn't jinx myself by trying to tie one incorrectly. But I'm a little paranoid that way.
Tight Lines, Brendan.
i use to cross up mine about half the time until i started putting a twist in the line.
fishermen will not agree on knots.
try here where they were tested on the igfa machine
www.sportfishingmag.com
its called "at the breaking point"
uni to uni doesnt rate at all,there are better knots.
doesnt mean you have to use them.
After I learned the right way to tie the palomer knot, I went back to check all of my pre-rigs and 80% needed to be retied. I even tryed twisting the line forcing it to cross, and it just didn't cooperate. Will keep on trying until I get one. Please be patient.
Quote from: Bryan Young on May 14, 2012, 06:05:53 AM
After I learned the right way to tie the palomer knot, I went back to check all of my pre-rigs and 80% needed to be retied. I even tryed twisting the line forcing it to cross, and it just didn't cooperate. Will keep on trying until I get one. Please be patient.
Just tried one, now I see what you mean about crossing over it self
Here is the results page in their test. As you can see a uni to uni breaks at 40% line test.
http://www.sportfishingmag.com/techniques/rigs-and-tips/braid-knots-20-pound-test
Broschro, can you post a picture of the know where it crosses over itself?
Quote from: broschro on May 14, 2012, 12:22:54 PM
Quote from: Bryan Young on May 14, 2012, 06:05:53 AM
After I learned the right way to tie the palomer knot, I went back to check all of my pre-rigs and 80% needed to be retied. I even tryed twisting the line forcing it to cross, and it just didn't cooperate. Will keep on trying until I get one. Please be patient.
Just tried one, now I see what you mean about crossing over it self
Quote from: Bryan Young on May 14, 2012, 05:13:50 PM
Broschro, can you post a picture of the know where it crosses over itself?
Quote from: broschro on May 14, 2012, 12:22:54 PM
Quote from: Bryan Young on May 14, 2012, 06:05:53 AM
After I learned the right way to tie the palomer knot, I went back to check all of my pre-rigs and 80% needed to be retied. I even tryed twisting the line forcing it to cross, and it just didn't cooperate. Will keep on trying until I get one. Please be patient.
Just tried one, now I see what you mean about crossing over it self
Just tried, my cam will not focus. but it is crossing it self Where the line doubles
Finally got my knot to cross. Mine used to cross near the center, but this one is near the end of the knot, but I think you will get the idea.
Quote from: Normslanding on May 11, 2012, 11:38:12 AM
Hi, I will try to base this on your original statement.
Spectra to mono, or Fluorocarbon knot strength is usually in the 74% range. So if you go up one size in you Spectra 40 mono with 50 Spectra , this approaches the rated mono, or Fluoro strength. The knots in Spectra are the weak link. That is not a bad but a simplistic solution.
There are many variables, hollow or solid Spectra, type of connection, ability of the person making the connection. Notice I did not use the word KNOT.
There are several connection methods in Hollow Spectra that produce a 100% connection of the actual breaking strength of the weakest material. Also was mentioned was heavier mono/Fluoro attached to Spectra might be tried. This is usually used as a leader application, and is best used for toothy critters, or abrasion. As you tie a hook/lure on the heavier mono the weak link is the Spectra connection. There is always a weak link. There are several great knots to tie hooks, etc. on mono/ Fluoro the one the wins contests is the one tied on the best piece of mono.
So I ask guys do you want a 100% knot at the hook? If so do you care if you loose 20,30,40 bucks of Fluorcarbon, or a two dollar hook.
Back to your frustration, Assuming you are using solid Spectra go up one size in Spectra Tie a double Uni with about 4 turns in the mono, and 8 in the Spectra. If that gives you a problem going thru the guides learn to tie a 16 turn Albright. A lift time and a very large book can be written on the subject.
Hope this rambling helps.
Thanks 4 all the info, I'm having a problem with the leader braking above the hook.
If your leader is breaking above the hook, it's possible that your leader is getting burned (term) when thightening your knots. Make sure that your knots are lubricated, cinched down to the hook, before tightening. Water and saliva is sufficient, but a slipery lubercant is best. I was just thinking I should use something like fish oil, but then again... I heard one of my friends uses a drop of corrosion X on the know as he slides and tightens down, but I don't know if he uses it on his hooks.
lube for knots
i use halco catch scent,its a grease for folks that dont know
braid and mono slide very easily without burning.
contains real fish pheremones,attracts fish,masks human scent
blah,blah blah!
broschro,might be as simple as changing your leader ::)
Quote from: wallacewt on May 16, 2012, 06:00:43 AM
lube for knots
i use halco catch scent,its a grease for folks that dont know
braid and mono slide very easily without burning.
contains real fish pheremones,attracts fish,masks human scent
blah,blah blah!
broschro,might be as simple as changing your leader ::)
Was looking at some of my leaders and did notice some abrasion from knot tying, :( I do lube em up good before tightening; I need to pay more attention. I will go up in leader size on my bigger live baits and see if that helps.im waiting on a day the ocean will cooperate with the days I have to get back out there to test my new knots and leaders. Will post results when done.
After making some leaders be sure to check them. For light leaders-up to about 60lb I lift 75-85% of the listed breaking strength and check with a scale. When testing heavy leaders I attatch the leader to my mainline and pull 50% of my mainlines breaking strength, if it doesn't break then I pull of the leader with gloves and try to break it..if it still doesn't break it is strong enough. I use the palomar knot up to 100-130lb line, higher lb than that gets crimped. Use whatever knot you tie the best and try testing the knots in the leader. Then test your knots in the mainline..Then set the drag and go fishing ;D
I think this old thread is still very relevant, therefore I'm reviving it with my $.02.
I once struggled with knots breaking at the hook or swivel. Then I started using larger swivels and hooks with thicker cross-sections and my problems stopped. Before that, the terminals were small, causing the knots to have sharp bends. It was almost like the swivels or hooks were cutting my line if that makes sense. So if anyone is having the same problem as the OP was, I recommend using beefier terminal tackle if you've tried everything else.
Quote from: japeto on March 24, 2017, 05:22:28 PM
I think this old thread is still very relevant, therefore I'm reviving it with my $.02.
I once struggled with knots breaking at the hook or swivel. Then I started using larger swivels and hooks with thicker cross-sections and my problems stopped. Before that, the terminals were small, causing the knots to have sharp bends. It was almost like the swivels or hooks were cutting my line if that makes sense. So if anyone is having the same problem as the OP was, I recommend using beefier terminal tackle if you've tried everything else.
Exactly right...
When the tiny SPRO swivels came out I had to use them. Not anymore.
They have their place but not on bottom fishing tackle.
Hmm, learn something everyday here.
I use seaguar grand max fluorocarbon for Lake fishing had to find out the hard way ,,,,spit on the knots and old fluorocarbon line ,,,don't try to get a good deal it's old stock >:( my dad would say that cheap Kmart line your using that's what's going on ???
Friction wear on the knot, at the terminal end, seems to be reduced by usin a split ring, where practical. Lures yeah, bait hooks-mabey. Have found that mono/fluoro connections to spectra have improved breaking strength, if spectra can possibly be doubled over before the tie. Perhaps the spectra as a single strand, has a tendency to cut through the mono/fluoro.
Gfish
Gotta put my $.02 in here. I dont tie any knots with spectra, except a bimini. A short flouro top shot to swivel and then flouro to hook. no problems and the flouro lets me use knots i have confidence in. Works for me