This should be fun to watch ;D
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Penn-Model-K-Reel-1932-Version-Very-Rare-Tough-Reel-/121704403712?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c5625d300
Enjoy!
Fun for the watchers and nail biting for the Bidders.
Up and up it goes...
where it will stop...
nobody knows
:)
$455.01 with 3 days left....
$797.00 plus 13.00 shipping..... ???
I have seen them sell between $500 and either side of $2000 so who knows at what figure it will end.
In my tiny mind I can not figure how someone selling a reel of value wouldn't have it looking in show condition, that reel looks like it has seen some hard times. Dumb question! Is that reel really worth that Kind of money? :o
Quote from: Reel 224 on July 21, 2015, 12:58:50 PM
Is that reel really worth that Kind of money? :o
I think that is what we are learning. Like anything, in the end it is worth what somebody is willing to pay. Of course, we can still scratch our heads and say, "Huh?"
Quote from: Reel 224 on July 21, 2015, 12:58:50 PM
In my tiny mind I can not figure how someone selling a reel of value wouldn't have it looking in show condition, that reel looks like it has seen some hard times. Dumb question! Is that reel really worth that Kind of money? :o
This seller knows what he is doing, Joe --
The buyer of this reel will be a collector looking to add a "K" to the Penn display.
Since it shows obvious wear that will not ever go away -- it can look much better cleaned up and restored -- but the seller is not hiding anything here -- and the buyer will want to go through it himself, anyway -- using his own expertise and methods that he can show off later.
And it shows the original condition -- with nothing hidden -- and no snakes to slither out later.
Smart call on the sellers part -- since it will likely sell for more in this untouched condition -- than restored.
If the seller did too much to it -- it would still not be enough for the buyer -- and some buyers might expect more than it is -- this way they know exactly what they are getting -- and no complaints later to the seller...
Just my own opinions about buyers, sellers, ebay, and human nature.
Best,
Fred
Quote from: foakes on July 21, 2015, 03:34:49 PM
Quote from: Reel 224 on July 21, 2015, 12:58:50 PM
In my tiny mind I can not figure how someone selling a reel of value wouldn't have it looking in show condition, that reel looks like it has seen some hard times. Dumb question! Is that reel really worth that Kind of money? :o
This seller knows what he is doing, Joe --
The buyer of this reel will be a collector looking to add a "K" to the Penn display.
Since it shows obvious wear that will not ever go away -- it can look much better cleaned up and restored -- but the seller is not hiding anything here -- and the buyer will want to go through it himself, anyway -- using his own expertise and methods that he can show off later.
And it shows the original condition -- with nothing hidden -- and no snakes to slither out later.
Smart call on the sellers part -- since it will likely sell for more in this untouched condition -- than restored.
If the seller did too much to it -- it would still not be enough for the buyer -- and some buyers might expect more than it is -- this way they know exactly what they are getting -- and no complaints later to the seller...
Just my own opinions about buyers, sellers, ebay, and human nature.
Best,
Fred
Yes Fred I understand what you are saying and that seams to hold true in most collectables not new but original. I'm one of those guys that like new look but old stile, Like wine gets better with age, just blow the dust off the bottle ;D I like my woman that way too. :o ;D
Just thought I would put my two cents in. As far as Model K's goes, this one is a really good one. Consider these reels have been steadily fished for about 80 years and the side plate boss is Bakelite. This one is unbroken, most are not. I predict a grand or more before it is over. I got off it at $600+, I just do not have the pockets to compete for this.
Oh, why not? Lets see if they outbid me if I go over $800. Then I will be done.
Nope, they just will not let me in.
I will have to find one at a garage sale.
I couldn't even afford admission to that show. :o :D
Only 4hrs left...
last chance to own a reel significant piece of Penn history
I wonder if anyone has ever bought one of these in a sleeper listing?
Doesn't seem very likely, in recent years anyways.
SOLD!
$1,003.01...shipped.
Guess you have to be willing to step up and pay up for some items.
Mike's prediction was spot on.
QuoteI wonder if anyone has ever bought one of these in a sleeper listing?
About eight years ago I was offered all three 1932 reels, all in nice condition, for $1500. That is a Model F, K with star and K without star. I passed it up. Still kicking myself over that one. I could easily get four grand for that set today.
In the Penn 2005 catalog is a Penn history article. In that article there is a Model K with star shown in a 1933 Long Beach box. That reel was bought by Herbert Henze (son of Otto) on EBay for small money. These reels have tripled in value in the past seven years or so. There are very few of them. I used to keep a informal count of all the 1932 models. In ten years I would estimate about a dozen Model F's, about the same amount of Model K's with star and possible a half dozen Model K's without star. These are truly rare pieces. When they are listed on EBay, they almost always go for four figures.
IN 1932 there were about 1000 F's made and 1000 K's. The K's are divided between the star and non-star models. I suspect over 75% of the K's are with star drag models.
Most of what you see with a Model F and Model K are unique to these models. It is virtually impossible to replace the parts you see unless you buy another F or K so you will still be in the same position except you would have 2 reels the same and spent twice as much.
If you find one completely original then you have hit a home run. If it is in good condition .....you're Gladstone Duck Lucky , but you would have paid high for it.
I guess that is why You, Mike and Ted collect these very rare vintage pieces.
I am a Penn guy through and through, but 4 figures?
I know I have a problem, but I don't want it that bad.
I'll take that back, maybe I do, but I would have to have a Cherry 16 and 14/0 to pay that much. ;D
I will keep my collecting in my realm of thinking. Whether it is sane or not. ;)
My hats off to you fellas. I guess that's why You write the history that we all follow. :)
QuoteI will keep my collecting in my realm of thinking. Whether it is sane or not.
Daron, you are so RIGHT! Collecting is very personal and it has nothing to do with sanity. We collect to satisfy internal yearnings of all kinds. Historical awareness, nostalgia and the treasure hunting needs are strong desires that many collectors live by. Most collectors care about the history; but, absolutely every collector I have ever met wants to find a $10,000 item at a garage sale for $12.00.
That is part of the reasoning we use to justify our insatiable needs to accumulate old stuff, that is the Profit Motive that makes collecting appear sane (I use that Profit Motive aspect every time my wife asks me what I am doing and why am I spending so much time doing it ::)).
What makes it insane is that most collectors will spend their entire life dedicating thousands of hours of personal time, compiling unfathomable amounts of information and burying themselves in personal landfills of old stuff, justifying it all with that old Profit Motive mentality; but, not sell their most valuable pieces because they put so much of their heart and soul into finding them.
After careful consideration, no matter how you spin it, collectors do what they do for emotional reasons, rather than for logical reasons. Sometimes emotions will make someone appear that they are not using their God given powers of "Reasoning" and that their behavior cannot be explained in terms of sanity. So be it, I love the rush of the treasure hunt and no amounts of explanations of my sane or insane behavior is going to change that..... ;D
I guess all collectors want to be as Ray says,
""If you find one completely original then you have hit a home run. If it is in good condition .....you're Gladstone Duck Lucky""!! ;D ;D ;D
Are there any specific markings to identify.
Can't say I share the enthusiasm of collecting as others do, but I do wonder if there is a book on value of such findings in the realm of antique collectable Reels...such as the blue book on firearms for instance.
QuoteAre there any specific markings to identify
The Model K is full of tells that make it unique to 1932, besides the Logo that tells you it is a Model K. The Model K we have seen auction off for over a grand this week was a true, unmolested Model K. On the tail plate you will see a round clicker button, very indicative of Ocean City design, possibly even bought from the same source that was used by Ocean City. That round clicker button is only used in 1932. There were some of them left over, so occasionally you will find a 1933 Sea Hawk using that round clicker button, which enhances the value of the Sea Hawk or any other 1933 reel found with the round button. I have seen a few Sea Hawks with that round button and a really small amount of Sea Fords with that button. I cannot recall ever seeing any Penn reel after 1933 with the round Ocean City style clicker.
Now let's move to the head plate. The spool bearing on the head plate side is a round bearing, designed to be finger tight only. Being that these reels don't always age gracefully, many of these round spool bearings freeze, requiring pliers to remove them, causing them to get galled up. The one that sold this week had damage to that bearing.
Also on the head plate side is the special type screw used to hold down the free spool lever. That screw is unique to the Model K. The head is larger than a normal lever retaining screw used on the later model Long Beach and Bay Side reels and the edges of the head are sharp, rather than rounded off. Handle edges and star wheel edges are also sharper than later model parts; but, that trait goes on for a few of the early years.
If you open the reel up you will find a small "K" inside a circle on each side plate. In 1932 & 1933 Penn did not mold their own side plates, with the exception of the head plates on early Bay Side and Sea Ford models. The side plates were molded by the Kuhn Jacobs Molding Company, hence, the Circle K molded mark inside each head plate.
Looking at the patina of the metal parts will also show a true 1932 or 33 reel and of course, these plates must be brown in color, not black as Penn went to in 1934. And very important is the undamaged head plate main shaft molded in Bakelite collar. Most of them are broken, the one on this reel was not.
All in all, if you are familiar with the tells, you will know whether the reel is right or not. This one was right.
QuoteI do wonder if there is a book on value of such findings in the realm of antique collectable Reels...such as the blue book on firearms for instance.
There are a number of books aka price guides available on collectible reels. Some are brand specific, like the Pflueger book, the late Ted Bingham's, Edward vom Hofe history book gives modern values or my Green Cover Penn companion book which has a price guide for the first 25 years of the company.
A gentleman named Stu Lawson also wrote antique reel price guides about 15 years ago;
http://www.amazon.com/Lawsons-Price-Guide-Fishing-Reels/dp/0964394464/ref=sr_1_fkmr1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1437594448&sr=8-1-fkmr1&keywords=stu+lawson+fishing+reel+price+guide
But this Prince Guide has turned into a collectible itself with asking prices in the hundreds category; but, there are other price guides:
http://www.amazon.com/Collectible-Fishing-Reels-Schiffer-Collectors/dp/0764317679/ref=pd_sim_sbs_14_1?ie=UTF8&refRID=18DWMNRWZGSH7NAX4H74
http://www.amazon.com/Collectors-Guide-Antique-Fishing-Tackle/dp/1555215254/ref=pd_sim_14_3?ie=UTF8&refRID=07RW138FDVVPRYFH2V0R
And more if you go on Amazon and search around.
So there are some guides out there. I feel experience is best teacher. Price Guides are good for retail values and to create guidelines; but, they get dated and become obsolete very quickly. They are very handy and hopefully others start contributing more in the future and the hobby grows.
That's quite true about blue book values becoming out dated, I used to keep up on the new additions for firearms because of customers wanting to know what something was worth and for my reference when I was buying and selling....no longer an issue for me, but I was curious to see if there was such a publication for reels.