OK; not your everyday reel. This was a "salvage" that I rebuilt from the ground up. Boca Bearings, Carbontex drags, etc. Full Aunt Jemima treatment - to my level of experience.
The spool spins like a wild man. The action is smooth as butter. I replaced the left side plate that included the levelwind (cog?) gear. Cheap plastic. Took another's suggestion and snipped the top retainer off and installed a c-clip. Lubed it and all is well. Except, it makes a screeching, chattering noise - almost like the bait alarm is partially engaged. I removed the levelwind pawl and no noise. I replaced it and I have noise again. The worm gear is nice and shiny, but seems to have more side to side movement (more play) of the line guide than my other reels.
It casts a mile, but you can also hear it near a mile. Any ideas?
Thanks!
Only brainstorming here, since you have cut off the retainer and replaced with a c-clip, you haven't upset the mesh of the cogs have you? I am thinking shims required to get the gears in proper mesh again. When you remove the LW pawl there is probably no load on the gears and they happily centre themselves, but driving the pawl back and forth shifts them on the shaft. Do the gear teeth show any signs of running on the outside?
cheers
Steve
I was thinking the same thing Steve. Misalignment.
What moves side to side? The worm or only the levelwind carriage (the block the leverwind wire is attached to).
-steve
Sorry everyone. I forgot to check "Notify".
The work gear itself moves ~1 - 1.5 mm from side to side. The Pawl appears to be virtually identical to others in my other reels with respect to condition. size, etc. The worm gear is bright and glistening. It is well cleaned and lubed.
The noise was present before swapping out the side plate. Significantly better with the new side plate, but still noisy as hell. There is a pressure spring under the pawl, that when replaced, reduced the side to side movement of the line guide. Didn't help the noise, though. I'm at a total loss. The worm gear housing is solid as a rock.
The only thing I know to do at this point is to replace the worm gear; but, I feel like I'm just shooting in the dark. The new cog wheel was stubborn from the supplier, but functional. Still noisy, though. Removing the lip, lubricating, and installing the C-clip was a dramatic improvement. But; certainly no smoking gun compared to others without this noise.
Side Note: I rebuilt my first Mitchell spinning reel this weekend! Woo Hoo! It and an Abu Mitchell rod from the local pawn shop were $10.00. Lots of cleaning and lubing, and I have an antique that's like new. Nothing to write home about, but I it's fairly decent, and did it without a schematic.
Quote from: ReelClean on October 07, 2017, 01:38:12 AM
Only brainstorming here, since you have cut off the retainer and replaced with a c-clip, you haven't upset the mesh of the cogs have you? I am thinking shims required to get the gears in proper mesh again. When you remove the LW pawl there is probably no load on the gears and they happily centre themselves, but driving the pawl back and forth shifts them on the shaft. Do the gear teeth show any signs of running on the outside?
cheers
Steve
Shouldn't have upset the alignment. The gear position is the same - top to bottom. Just a c-clip holding it in the current position. And a LOT more lubrication. Actually; about half the noise since doing this. It spins 3-4x faster than before.
Hey Jim, what is the Diameter of the shaft holding the gear. Maybe I could send you some shims to shim the gear better.
That would be awesome. Thank you so much! I'll have to measure it at work tomorrow with a digital caliper, but will get back with you. I'm assuming that you're talking about the shaft that the plastic gear is on?
The side plate is brand new - as is the gear. The only thing I did was clip off the plastic retainer on the top of the gear to remove it for better lube maintenance. I don't think there's any up or down play with this, but will double check. Before; - out of the box - it spun, but sluggishly. After I lubed it, it spun like a top. Not giving any serious thought to any of the super tuned bearing gears at this point.
Sorry. For some reason; I'm not getting notifications on this thread when someone replies.
OK; you guys are gods! Maybe... Re-reading all of the replies; I decided to remove the side cap and check the gear. Yep. After a number of casts, now; you can see that the brass levelwind gear is only making contact with the outer edge of the plastic gear meshing with the teeth. Full thickness contact, but barely. Well demarcated in the grease and slight discoloration from the brass. There is a slight amount of up and down play on the plastic gear. I have some copper shims that I ordered as extras from Southwestern that are likely the same diameter. And will likely provide the spacing, if I install 2. Good idea? Bad idea?
Hi Jim,
Yes the shaft holding the gear.
I think you got it figured out. Let me know if you need more shims.
Fraid not... I appears to be either the spool shaft, or inner shaft of the pinion gear. When you press the release switch, the clutch shifts the pinion gear just outside of the cross pin that retains the spool bearing. I noticed that the sound was more prevalent on the handle side of the reel. I disassembled it and found slight shinny edges on the face of the pinion gear. I used my new Boca pliers to pop the pin out of the spool. Removed the pinion gear and approximated it with the pin area on the spool. It was rough, and almost binding. The pin has plenty of wiggle room when placed in the cross hatch of the pinion, but I don't think the pinion gear is fully retracting from the locking point. I'm going to use a Q-Tip and polishing compound to the inside of the pinion, and the same to a flannel buffing wheel to polish the shaft.
Best I can figure at this point. I went ahead and installed one of the copper shims under the gear, but to the noise remains. Sure does spin fast though.
I'll keep you all posted. What a PITA!
Thanks!
Well; not great news, but I'm going to see how it works. The inside bore of the pinion gear looked like microscopic ants had been eating inside it. I used a .177 cal rifle bore brush and covered it with swab pads. Applied a little Brasso to the cloth and let it rip inside my Dremel tool at low speed. End result was much better, but still far from perfect. Again; this was a salvage reel. Worst case; the pinion and main gear are available for just over $20.00.
I wrapped the left side of the spool shaft with electrical tape, clamped it inside my drill at medium speed and used some 3000 grit wet / dry paper to polish the heck out of it. Buffed it off with a flannel wheel, and the fit is still tight, but not obstructive. I'm going to reassemble it soon, and test it when I get home in a few hours.
That was the ticket. Just threw about 15 effortless 200+/- foot casts with a 3oz sinker. Soft whirring sound from the spinning spool, but no more chatter and noise! Woo hoo! Me likey!
Thanks for all of the suggestions. Bear with me... I'm learning.
Thanks for your account of the problem, l'll remember this if any of my Abus start acting similar.
Remove the brake blocks and try the reel again. If the noise stops its the spool not centered.properly.
Mike
The 10000i doesn't have centrifugal brakes. Just the spool tensioner, and your thumb. Good idea, though.
Small big update: After essentially fixing the issue that I had; I ordered a larger spool bearing from Boca. The original is really punched onto the spool assembly and only comes as a part of it (no part number). There is a large pin through the shaft holding it in place, but can be removed with a really good squeeze with a pair of the new style Boca pliers. The original bearing measures 7x14x4 mm, but has at least 2 mm of wiggle room between the spool and the locking pin. I installed a 7x14x5 - which is designed for a Shimano reel. What I got out of it was a much smoother cast. A much quieter cast - basically NO sound. And; a much faster release and spinning dwell time. It was a gamble that paid off in spades.
jim, gotta get you to start taking pictures!!!!! ;D
For reference its common to remove the tip of a cog gear that is made to snap on. A razor blade cuts off the snap on tip so the cog wheel can be used on a reel that uses the C clip to make it secure.
Being new to the board; I didn't want to start posting photos of everything like I'm some authority on anything on this board. Thanks for the invite. I'm still trying to get accustomed to the posting etiquette, particularly as it relates to posting photos. A lot of forums discourage it because of the cost of bandwidth.
But; photos I can do! I only wish that I'd saved some of the "before" photos of the 10000i. I took tons when I was disputing the cost with the seller, but deleted them when we settled on a reasonable price. I still have most of the old parts that I can post. I can certainly post all you want of the completed project. Would love to get some opinions on how it looks / suggestions / constructive criticism.
One question though: How the heck do you get the Cal's grease residue off the side plates??? I've tried Dawn, alcohol, etc. I don't dare want to use anything that might damage the finish or silk screening. I'd sure like to see that "out of the box" luster. 1 10000i, 2 10000CL's done and working great. Great condition, in my opinion.
I've been asked to do some videos by Bocca; so I'm holding off on the 3rd 10000CL until I get some more line, etc. I should have a 1200 yard spool of Sufix 832 #80 here tomorrow and I'll begin. The bearings should be here today. I'm going to show a breakdown, cleaning, inspection, and lubing of the 10000CL. I've already opened it, and on first glance; it doesn't look like it's ever been used. Just looks like tarry 1994 lube. Will remove the bearings. clean them, and video comparison testing using 3oz, 1oz, 1/2oz 1/3oz weights (5 casts each), average, then replace with Boccas. Wash, rinse, and repeat. Should be interesting. Also going to do a simple comparison video of a Morrum M3600C with the same standards. Already cleaned and refurbed it. Same with a Revo STX-SHS. Opted for that one because I'm not sure if there's going to be a big enough difference when I do it with my MGXtremes, but will video it anyway in case there's something shocking out of that. Let's face it: The MGXtreme is pretty hardcore right out of the box.
I'm going to send them to Jeff at Bocca and they're free to use them if they turn out decent. If I don't gag at the sight of me on the camera; I'll post them on YouTube, as well. Meeting with a videographer this weekend to discuss ideas / format. Got permission from the school board last night to use the football field. You've got to understand - this ISN'T something I've ever done before. I'm excited, but freaking out at the same time.
OK. Let me try to post a photo of some of the leftovers from the 10000i. Hopefully; they'll show up. What you can't appreciate is the amount of pitting. You can see some on the handle, but that's after I'd tried to buff it out. Nah; ain't gonna work! The nut retainer and set screw were dissolved. This reel had apparently been submerged in salt water for some time. I'll try to post another photo of the gear side after I'd cleaned it up and replaced the parts.
A few more. The 10000i after cleaning and replacement of damaged parts. The origin of this thread - the suspected cog gear before I snipped of the tip and replaced with a c-clip. Morrum before and after. And, an after shot of the gears of one of the 10000CL's.
OK; I'll have to post the CL separately.
10000CL innards. Trust me: They really are much cleaner and brighter in real life! I'm not a very good photographer.
WIt, what, that's a 2-speed reel. I just picked up one from Alan that I want to study a little.
Quote from: Bryan Young on October 17, 2017, 05:53:21 AM
WIt, what, that's a 2-speed reel. I just picked up one from Alan that I want to study a little.
WAS a 2-speed reel. 10000C & CL yes, in production for a very long time, like late 60s to late '90s or 2000. Replaced by single-speed gold colored 10000 Big Game and later black 10000i.
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