Alright not too long ago I came by what seemed like a decent deal on a older loomis rod with a sustain 4000 on it. The reel seemed to be in decent shape given the age same with the rod. The price I paid the rod was about worth it to me, the reel was a bonus as I'm not a big fan of the trillion bearing newer spinning reels as they're a pain to work on compared to my other reels. I'm use to old DAM quicks, pennn z series and 400 series spinners. I like the old reels cause they're easy to service, tough, and reliable. Granted this shimano is darn smooth and easy reeling compared to many of my older single bearing wind it and grind it spinner like my 430ss, dam 221, dam supers and such. Anyways the reel was smooth and pretty clean. The only problem I had was the line roller didn't want to roll all that easily. I knew it was a roller with a bearing and bushing so it should have been nice and smooth. Like my sustain 4000fd that I have on another rod.
Well I took the screw out holding the bail arm on wouldn't you know it for some stupid reason someone at some point put super glue or something on the bail arm end. Well it was in the bushing holding the bushing to the ceramic line roller. I was doing my best to carefully pursuade the roller off so I could get the bearing out to attempt to clean and free it up. I soaked the roller assembly which was stuck together on the bail arm end in some paint thinner in hopes it might break down the glue some. It helped as it at least allow it to roll some, despite my best efforts to patiently and carefully remove the roller with some pliers with rubber hose over the jaws the roller cracked into a couple pieces on me.
Comparing the roller to the one on my sustain 4000fd the one off this original sustain 4000 the bearing, bushing, and roller seem to be different. I've only found this one schematic for this old 4000 and it doesn't break down the roller part numbers well. I'd like to locate another roller, and bushing for it as they are shot. The bearing after letting it soak in some carb cleaner and thoroughly rinsing it some parts solvent seems to be pretty free and smooth now. I'd hate to not to be able to use this reel just cause I stupidly broke the roller. I'm not super familiar with these in my eyes later shimanos so if someone else is and knows of roller/bushing that would work I would appreciate it. Link for the schematic I found. This is the schematic to the sustain 4000 I have it has the twin handle as well my sustain 4000fd seems to have a lot of differences.
https://www.reelschematic.com/wp-content/uploads/schematics/Shimano/Sustain/SHIMANO%20SUSTAIN%20SA4000F(93-26).pdf
know, love, & HOARD Shimano's solid SiC line rollers & "down-UPgrade" every later Shimano I use w/ this better, older part... (including, SustainFA/TwinPowerXT 1000-6000 size)
all of my large SiC rollers (large = room for BB, regardless of reel size) come from mid-90's Stradic/Symetre;
they're all one-size/identical & interchangeable w/ later metal Power Rollers, provided you have all the right "fiddly bits" (up to about '03, when Shimano redesigned their bail heads for SustainFD/StradicFH)
I'm sure I have all the necessary "fiddly bits", but would need reel-in-hand (or, at least, bail arm & bail head) to figure it out... some close-up photos of your disassembled bail head would help
on the other hand, I've never played w/ Stellas or the original Sustain F which seems more like a pre-Stella, than subsequent Sustain models... if you need parts specific to that platform -- I can't help
finally, super-glues are acetone-based -- if you had used nail polish remover instead of paint thinner...
I will take pics of it and post. My bushings are pretty well garbage too, old and split. The glue was in there good, idk why I didn't try acetone as well. I had some almost always have some around for thinning or cleaning up various automotive finishes. I could make my bushings and bearing work, but new bushings, and obviously roller would be best. If you can help me out it with the parts I need I would be grateful. If you don't have them I guess I will just have to keep my eyes peeled. I could care less if it stays SIC roller or if I have metal one. The fact that it has roller with a bearing is way more than most my spinners. I'll take pics when I'm home this evening and post tomorrow I should have taken pics yesterday evening when I was sadly looking at my blunder. I had no idea that thing was a ceramic roller till it broke. Guess that's what I get for not posting the stuck roller issue on here first.
Roman is the expert when it comes to these, Andy —
If you couldn't get it together with the 6 piece roller assembly, as proper — I would personally have no problems with just switching over to a solid roller that you might cobble together from some other reel.
No big deal — it will all work.
Best,
Fred
pics of reel and broken parts
more pics
pics continued
pictures
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measured the bearing with calipers its 4x8x3 this is the shimano bearing I have found that would work so idk maybe other reels that used it their bushings and roller might work on mine?
OK, I have a schematic headache from cross-ref. your SA-4000F w/ SA-4000FA, ST-4000FB & ST-3000FA (older, same size)
just to return the favor: ;D ;D ;D
https://www.reelschematic.com/wp-content/uploads/schematics/Shimano/Sustain/SHIMANO%20SUSTAIN%20SA4000FA(97-03).pdf (https://www.reelschematic.com/wp-content/uploads/schematics/Shimano/Sustain/SHIMANO%20SUSTAIN%20SA4000FA(97-03).pdf)
https://www.reelschematic.com/wp-content/uploads/schematics/Shimano/Stradic/SHIMANO%20STRADIC%20ST4000FB(93-32).pdf (https://www.reelschematic.com/wp-content/uploads/schematics/Shimano/Stradic/SHIMANO%20STRADIC%20ST4000FB(93-32).pdf)
https://www.reelschematic.com/wp-content/uploads/schematics/Shimano/Stradic/SHIMANO%20STRADIC%20ST4000FB%20PARTS(93-33).pdf (https://www.reelschematic.com/wp-content/uploads/schematics/Shimano/Stradic/SHIMANO%20STRADIC%20ST4000FB%20PARTS(93-33).pdf)
https://www.reelschematic.com/wp-content/uploads/schematics/Shimano/Stradic/SHIMANO%20STRADIC%20ST3000FA(92-19).pdf (https://www.reelschematic.com/wp-content/uploads/schematics/Shimano/Stradic/SHIMANO%20STRADIC%20ST3000FA(92-19).pdf)
your bearing doesn't look so good (RD-3306? - I have some) if WHEN it seizes up, it will NOT act as a bushing -- the tolerances are too tight... on-the-cheap, I'm confident I can replace the 3 destroyed parts & questionable bearing w/ a compatible bushing assembly & choice of rollers... if it works, pay what you think is fair -- if not, send it back
HOWEVER, YOU ARE STILL MISSING A PART!!! not counting the screw, you have 5 & fuzzy schematic shows 6 unnamed/unnumbered parts between bail head & arm -- could be a thin plastic liner that you can make/skip, or a necessary stainless disk that isn't just flat & featureless... I'd guess it's a spacer like RD-4637 in SA-4000FA, but can't be sure
if you're not determined to be frugal, consider sending it to me -- I can do/know much more w/ reel-in-hand & offer possible upgrades (swap the stupid double handle, put 2 BBs under roller)... or, a trade -- 4000-size is overkill for "chasing smallmouth", anyway
aside from the roller mess, reel looks damn good after quarter-century (prob. F/W only), but it WAS owned by someone dumb enough to glue the innards -- complete tear-down is in order, before any major expense/trade
The roller assemblies on a lot of Shimano reels are sold as a single item because they are press-fitted and cannot be disassembled nor serviced.
I went through this with a Stradic 5000FK fairly recently, had to buy the roller + bearing as a single item.
Roman depending on what kind of cost we are talking about I'm not opposed to sending it to you, as your expertise on these reels far exceeds my knowledge on them. My other sustain 4000 a 4000fd I believe needs a good going through I've been meaning to get a new roller bearing for it, as it's in rough shape. This reel would get used for bassing primarily with larger heavier baits. It also would get used as reel for fishing tail waters around me for hybrid striper/white bass, catfish, fresh water drum, and the occasional salt water trip. My dad will be moving to Florida soon, so may end up being a combo along with some others I'd leave down there. So he has some better stuff to fish, and for me to use when I visit him. The parts pictured are all that came out which seemed short to me based upon the schematic I managed to find. I appreciate the other schematics I'm not too familiar with these reels as most my others are much simpler old school Penns, DAM Quicks, and Zebco/Abu Cardinals. I'm not against the double handle so far looks kind of goofy I agree, but I haven't ever fished with a double handle spinner. Might give it a shot before just deciding to ditch it. Not sure on a double bearing roller setup, heck having a single bearing roller is an advanced high end setup compared to anything I normally fish. I really appreciate the help.
The FK series uses the one piece line roller. That's the only model doing this so far.
hmmm, now I'm really thinking we can talk trade...
forgot I have a Sustain 5000FD, somewhere (missing handle & drag knob -- yours will fit)
most parts are identical for both, 4000/5000 size and both, '03/'07 versions
whichever "roller bearing" you need, it's in there
let's delineate terminology:roller bearing = big-####, trillion-part A/R clutch assembly under/inside the rotor (RD-6130 for SA-4000/5000FD)
line-roller bearing = tiny ball bearing under/inside the line-roller (RD-7915 for SA-4000/5000FD)
(FYI: if there's room for it, second aftermarket BB is added for stability under heavy load)I have no problem working on ANY Shimano spinner, but I mainly tinker w/ 90's models
hence, my parts pile is mostly in the "older than '03 / cheaper than Stella" category
the 5000FD is out of place & incomplete, so I never bothered to crack it open
would be happy to do so, to pull whatever parts you need or fix it up as trade-bait
not suggesting equal value to your 4000F (assuming, no problems other than the roller mess)
I'd throw in other reel(s) and/or parts to load the trade in your favor
let me know what other Shimanos you have (working or not) for a best-planned swap
if you just want to buy parts, Buyer's Market rules:
- slightly below fleaBay prices for anything I value, or in short supply
- WAY less for anything overabundant or unneeded in my parts pile
- or whatever Fred says is fair, if no other authority ;D
I wasn't thinking of a trade, was just thinking send you the reel to service repair possibly. But I'm not opposed to a trade. I like the size and feel of the 4000 I have. Whats weird is the other sustain I have a 4000fd just seems larger by a little bit. If you think you the line roller parts that would work on the pictured sustain 4000 I don't mind giving a fair price for them I wasn't expecting a give away. I'd kind of prefer to just get parts and fix it myself, as I should try to become familiar with more modern reels. Modern is relative yes, modern by my standards of reels I've been dealing with. I'm not opposed to a two bearing setup I understand the benefits, but I don't feel the need to upgrade it as, line roller with a bearing is a huge upgrade compared to most my reels. I know to many this sustain is a relic, but when most of my reels used are 400 and z series penns, old dam quicks newest being from the 70's-80's, and old zebco abu made cardinals this shimano is new era stuff to me.
I should have been more specific in my previous posts when I was saying roller bearing I was referring the line roller bearing. As I haven't even dived into this reel deep enough yet to get to other bearings.
no prob... hope you're not in a hurry... go ahead & self-service your reels, to see what else you may need & all the bearings are good
4000F: I have a HUGE pile of pristine SustainFA bearings that should be the same (not sure about the little ones on either end of the oscillation worm, but those are never really stressed); very confident about putting together a cheap compatible line roller assembly & the missing spacer is likely same as SustainFA
4000FD: if it's bigger than 4000F, than I'm pretty sure it's the same body as 5000FD w/ smaller rotor/spool (hopefully someone else here can verify that) & I have you covered for almost any part needed... also, cheaply
worst case scenario: you send me the disassembled reels in bags :( NOT CHEAP!!! :( ...just don't loose anything
almost forgot: check whether line roller bearings for both reels have same ID -- i.e., same bail-head arbor diameter
not in a hurry would like to have it functioning, but don't need it tomorrow have more rods/reels than I can use at one time as I'm sure many other on here do as well. Both reels are quiet smooth and work well outside the line rollers. The 4000fd line roller the bearing is just worn when I got it was quiet dry/corroded I cleaned as best I could and lubed it. Works but it makes some noise so it's due for replacement. The 4000F as you have seen in the pictures the line roller was a basket case. I haven't cracked it open, but outside of the line roller it's quiet smooth and feels good. Hopefully it just needs a good going through cleaning, relube, and reassemble. I'll be careful with them as they definetly have more to them than what I'm use to. Let me know what your thinking on price for the 4000f line roller assembly, the 4000fd I have all the line roller components and it functions the bearing has just seen better days. I sure appreciate the help I'll have to remember to takes some comparison pics of the two next to each other. They may not be that much different size wise, but I'm pretty sure they are the 4000FD sure seems heavier than than the older 4000F.
no need to measure ID or more photos--just check whether it slides on to the other reel
P.S., original SuperStopper A/R is funky -- not instant roller clutch like SuperStopper II
PAY CLOSE ATTENTION & GO SLOW!
instead of "going in" to hit a 6-8 tooth ratchet, the dog "goes out" to hit many (>12?) teeth on the inner circumference of the rotor... very tiny back-play is normal
thanks for the heads up kind of like n series dam quicks maybe somewhat.
so messed around with the reel a bit this weekend. Pulled the line roller assembly off my 4000fd and found the bearing in it to be completely different than the older 4000. But the older 4000's bearing fit into the bushing off the 4000fd perfectly doing that I was able to put the bushing/bearing into the roller off the 4000fd and use it on the older 4000. So seems like if I just get new bearing of the right size for the old 4000, a 4000fd line roller, the two 4000fd line roller bushings I could get this old 4000 back in working order along with doing a general tear down, clean up, relube. As far as lubing these shimanos what is the norm just good reel oil on the bearings, and some good grease on the gears? I'm use to older style spinners with just one larger bearing that I normally use a corrision x/grease mixture on the bearings then grease on the gears and other moving components.