First off, my apologies for the lousy title. I really could not think of a better way to describe this. Secondly, I just want to thank all the regular contributors who have really helped me over the years! After years of trolling I finally joined.
I was wondering if anyone ever takes stainless drag washer to a flat grinding stone to remove the high spots and "true" them...kinda like cutting your brake rotors on your car?
I have a Daiwa Saltist 6500H spinning reel I use for tuna jigging. The drag has gotten pretty "lumpy" feeling. Cleaning and greasing didn't help. So today I put them to a flat stone. Instantly I noticed high spots, especially along the edges. After a little while on the stone they became much smoother as they moved across it. Afterwards, I cleaned, greased and put them back on the reel. It seems that the drag is much smoother now. Is this a good thing to do? or should I simply order a new drag stack from Daiwa?
Thanks!
Welcome Ralph! ;)
My best guess is that you would have to do the same thing to new ones to actually true them.
I would just be careful not to take off too much to shorten the drag stack.
New drag washers may be in order to tighten it up.
I'm assuming you are sanding metals and not the actual drag discs.
If they get hot, they sometimes glaze and will feel jerky.
As long as you have full drag capabilility when locking down, I'd say you are good to go,
Daron
Most reel manufacturers stamp their drag discs with a stamping die which leaves the discs concaved, and this causes a reduction in drag surface. Smoooth Drag offers ground flat discs for some reels, but you would have to check with them for you application. I've sanded ss discs using a figure 8 motion that proved to be effective, but was very labor intensive.
i tried that once, but never found much of a difference. under enough pressure, the uneven metal and carbon fiber washers usually flatten out well enough. :-\
Quote from: Ralph165 on January 03, 2019, 02:22:03 AM
I really could not think of a better way to describe this.
Lapping. You would want them to be both flat and of uniform thickness with the opposing surfaces parallel.
-steve
Hi Lapping, and thanks for your post, I think your on the right track, I have been leveling my metal washer, by rubbing them on wet & dry cloth, starting with 600, then1200, & then 2000, takes a while, but I believe it helps, nice smooth even drag, cheers Don.
in an old post, a member suggested working on a sheet of glass, to insure a flat surface
(manual sanding, of course)
Quote from: philaroman on January 03, 2019, 06:16:02 AM
in an old post, a member suggested working on a sheet of glass, to insure a flat surface
(manual sanding, of course)
That's the best way, using wet & dry fine grit glued to the glass if you want them really true. It is tedious work. ::)
You might want to try this if you want to save the tip of your fingers
http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=7996.msg77029#msg77029
I still use a piece of wood for the washer and the white tape still does a good job holding the washer.
I now have a piece of stainless steel in 1/8" it is pretty flat, I stick my sandpaper to it.
Sal
I did just this for the same reel many years ago.
Use plenty of water on quality wet and dry sandpaper and it will naturally adhere to a glass sheet.
Add a few drops of dish-washing liquid and the whole process will go much smoother.
Start course and work down through the grades. 5000 grit will literally give you a mirror finish.
Wear some leather gloves if you wanna keep your finger prints :)
But those standard drag washers are just crap.
Replace them with carbontex and you will see a world of difference.
~
Thanks for all the input...this will really help.
I did this to a few reels many years ago, and like Alan, didn't notice much of a difference. This time though, it was noticeably improved. I used a knife sharpening stone, but maybe will try some of the tips suggested. After wearing the finger tips on my rubber gloves, I realized I had to keep my fingers on the metal of the washer.
It was rather tedious....I will pick a day I have nothing to do and sit in front of the tv for a while!
Yes "lapping"....I knew there was a word!
quick question:
is honing oil worth the extra expense & mess, for wet sanding/grinding?
Yes, use oil with a stone and water with wet and dry paper. You really don't need a mirror finish...just flat. Too smooth and you might experience some negative affects.
To me it seems to make sense to do this, and have often taken the trouble to do it.
Eared washers are a problem.
Question is does it really improve you drag, I am unable to prove it!
Perhaps a man should take the drag reading before and after but other factors may then also come in to play, new grease, new carbon washers etc.
Is there a good way to hold the washer while you're doing it? Just press down with your thumb? I'm partial to my fingertips. Thanks
kid gloves (i.e., baby goat, or any good thin leather) is a good combo of durability & adequate tactile sensation... when you loose one, don't throw the other out -- throw it in your shop, instead
Quote from: Cor on January 04, 2019, 06:09:59 PM
Question is does it really improve you drag, I am unable to prove it!
Unfortunately, I will need to wait until I catch another 60lb tuna on it, because that's when I noticed the drag was sticky. So I guess I may never really know! lol
.....I guess I can tie the line to my buddies bumper and let him hit the gas? lol
were you using braid?
it can be "dug in" to the point where the reel still functions, but mimics sticky drag
Quote from: Swami805 on January 04, 2019, 07:04:18 PM
Is there a good way to hold the washer while you're doing it? Just press down with your thumb? I'm partial to my fingertips. Thanks
Me too Steve, that's why I mentioned my suggestion above, that most are ignoring :).
I like to see anyone trying to hold a .70mm washer with a leather glove :-\, but if its working for them...great!
Sal
Honing them flat does work. That's why Dawn sells ground flat washer kits. Ive never tried it myself and dont want to.
You know, there are some out there that could care less about smoothness, all they're after is more friction:
(https://i.imgur.com/mOsucFY.jpg)
:D
Quote from: Ralph165 on January 04, 2019, 08:42:06 PM
Quote from: Cor on January 04, 2019, 06:09:59 PM
Question is does it really improve you drag, I am unable to prove it!
Unfortunately, I will need to wait until I catch another 60lb tuna on it, because that's when I noticed the drag was sticky. So I guess I may never really know! lol
.....I guess I can tie the line to my buddies bumper and let him hit the gas? lol
Ralph, you should be able to tell at lower settings as well. Flat washers make a difference.
Sal
Quote from: Alto Mare on January 04, 2019, 09:26:06 PM
I like to see anyone trying to hold a .70mm washer with a leather glove :-\, but if its working for them...great!
Sal
not leather work-gloves, of course, but have you ever put on genuine baby-goat Kid Gloves (where do you think the expression comes from?)
besides, you don't have to "hold" (which one could do quite easily) -- merely press to a flat surface
I'm a general contractor and gloves have always given me a hard time, I actually never wear them, except when I do masonry work.
I see your point and if it seemed I was getting confrontational with you, that wasn't the case.
Sal
Dawn use Pacific Stamping to make the drag discs then sends them to a grinding shop to be ground .0002 - .0004, so that's pretty darn flat.
Here's my comparison between stock drag discs and flat discs. A reel in stock configuration will obtain 10 - 12#'s of drag while a modified reel (ground flat discs and carbon weave drags will obtain 18 -20#'s. I rest my case.
some one mentioned using oil on the stone, I only use water, as oil clogs the pause in sharpening stones, cheers Don.
Quote from: oc1 on January 03, 2019, 04:17:48 AM
Quote from: Ralph165 on January 03, 2019, 02:22:03 AM
I really could not think of a better way to describe this.
Lapping. You would want them to be both flat and of uniform thickness with the opposing surfaces parallel.
-steve
That is the right way to go about lapping a flat and concentric part.
Quote from: Donnyboat on January 04, 2019, 11:53:09 PM
some one mentioned using oil on the stone, I only use water, as oil clogs the pause in sharpening stones, cheers Don.
Plus a few drops of dish-washing liquid.
The Pros put me onto this many years ago and it works great.
These guys fillet more fish in one day than most of us will in a lifetime so they rule when it comes to honing an edge.
~
The tape sounds like a plan, I have butter fingers without gloves on. Thanks Sal
Quote from: philaroman on January 04, 2019, 09:22:24 PM
were you using braid?
it can be "dug in" to the point where the reel still functions, but mimics sticky drag
It's funny you just said that...after "lapping" the steel drag washers, I noticed the braid coming off the pool at hard angles through the line roller created some resistance....but when I pulled the line sideways off the spool the drag was smooth. So it seems that the braid digging in or coming off at hard angles is definitely an issue.
What you mentioned was definitely the case, I never noticed that before. It's kinda like when a levelwind is designed not to move or sync with a freespool. I actually hate those, they create a lot of resistance. I guess this is just a drawback using spinning gear.
That said, I still feel like "lapping" the washers made a quite noticeable difference.
Quote from: Ralph165 on January 05, 2019, 02:01:49 PM
I guess this is just a drawback using spinning gear.
not all spinning gear
per se, but cheaper disk oscillation, specifically (for braid)
can't be fixed -- can only be traded for other drawbacks... like getting a 2nd mortgage :'(
to upgrade your _ist to an _iga w/ a worm-gear ;D ;D ;D
Quote from: Donnyboat on January 04, 2019, 11:53:09 PM
some one mentioned using oil on the stone, I only use water, as oil clogs the pause in sharpening stones, cheers Don.
Donny I use oil as it makes honing easier. I also wash the stone with a brush, and soap and water after use to get the metal out of the pores. Dominick
Quote from: philaroman on January 05, 2019, 04:59:50 PM
Quote from: Ralph165 on January 05, 2019, 02:01:49 PM
I guess this is just a drawback using spinning gear.
to upgrade your _ist to an _iga w/ a worm-gear ;D ;D ;D
lol...I know! It's on my winter "buy" list...I mean liga...(yah..I know how bad that just was)
I have been working on these washers for days...making slow progress. Washing the stone periodically to "clean the pores". I took a black marker to one side of the washer and then got back to"lapping". I was very disappointed to see how not "flat" it still was..literally only 50% of the washer is making contact.
OK, so you're tinkering for the fun & learning experience... otherwise, a couple hrs. OT would buy you the finest upgraded complete stack
another thought:
would wet sanding be better w/ distilled, considering all the crap in tap?
...and, of course, fluoridation is a commie plot
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J67wKhddWu4
Quote from: Ralph165 on January 07, 2019, 11:48:18 AM
I have been working on these washers for days...making slow progress. Washing the stone periodically to "clean the pores". I took a black marker to one side of the washer and then got back to"lapping". I was very disappointed to see how not "flat" it still was..literally only 50% of the washer is making contact.
This is the reason I start with a file. I get the washer flat, then go to a finer file to remove big scratches, then on to the lapping. Also...even though nobody will agree...I like brass washers when doing this myself. They may wear a little faster, but for most fishing styles are more than adequate. Buying Dawn's Smoothdrag ground flat washers is the way to go when it comes to stainless steel. 8)
Thanks Dominic, I use water, wash the pores out with a bit of detergent & water, every now & then, some people call them oil stones, but they are really wet stones, cheers Don.
Quote from: Donnyboat on January 07, 2019, 07:00:40 PM
Thanks Dominic, I use water, wash the pores out with a bit of detergent & water, every now & then, some people call them oil stones, but they are really wet stones, cheers Don.
Right, if you don't wash out the metal flakes they rust and stain the stone. I believe the term to describe wet stones is really whet (to sharpen) stones. The whole reason for water or oil (among other things) is to keep the metal cool. Dominick
Quote from: Donnyboat on January 07, 2019, 07:00:40 PM
Right, if you don't wash out the metal flakes they rust and stain the stone. I believe the term to describe wet stones is really whet (to sharpen) stones. The whole reason for water or oil (among other things) is to keep the metal cool. Dominick
Yes, I was always a little skeptical about wetting or oiling the stone. My assumption was the water (or oil) was to cool or reduce friction in order to reduce heat that may possibly weaken the material (steel)..at least at the fine edge. But when and sharpening, how much heat am I really generating? It's not like a high speed sharpening tool, plus the time between strokes allows for some cooling. I have never felt the edge get hot when hand sharpening? Unless it is on some microscopic level?
That said, when I am sharpening most of my cheap knives, I don't wet the stone...but every once and a while I get a comment about that. For my washers, I have not been wetting the stone. I have not felt any noticeable heat generated. But I can definitely be mistaken, this is not my area of expertise.
I always thought the water or oil was to make the filings float up and not get jammed down into the pores. You can see stuff start to cloud the oil or water but maybe it part of the stone coming up and not part of the metal.
-steve
Quote from: oc1 on January 08, 2019, 07:32:08 AM
I always thought the water or oil was to make the filings float up and not get jammed down into the pores. You can see stuff start to cloud the oil or water but maybe it part of the stone coming up and not part of the metal.
-steve
You are definitely correct, thanks!
I put some dish soap and water on the stone and it was not clogging up.
Correcto Steve. It helps keep the pores clear. Dominick