another great post by mark mayo from http://www.bloodydecks.com/forums/shimano/58689-torium-trinidad-16-20-30-service-tutorial.html
Quote from: mmayo, post: 564294, member: 15379
Torium/Trinidad 16/20/30 Service Tutorial
(http://i975.photobucket.com/albums/ae238/mlmayo/Shimano%20Torium%20Trinidad/torium20_zps85587ba3.jpg)
Shimano service diagrams are at these URLs
torium 16
http://fish.shimano.com/media/fishing/SAC/techdocs/en/Conventional/tor_16_v1_m56577569830570267.pdf (http://fish.shimano.com/media/fishing/SAC/techdocs/en/Conventional/tor_16_v1_m56577569830570267.pdf)
torium 20
http://fish.shimano.com/media/fishing/SAC/techdocs/en/Conventional/tor_20_v1_m56577569830570268.pdf (http://fish.shimano.com/media/fishing/SAC/techdocs/en/Conventional/tor_20_v1_m56577569830570268.pdf)
torium 30
http://fish.shimano.com/media/fishing/SAC/techdocs/en/Conventional/tor_30_v1_m56577569830570269.pdf (http://fish.shimano.com/media/fishing/SAC/techdocs/en/Conventional/tor_30_v1_m56577569830570269.pdf)
See the Shimano site for other Trinidad series reels, but expect the same details
Start with a series of Phillips-head screwdrivers (small, medium and large), Shimano handle wrench (key 355), Q-tips, quality bearing oil, drag grease, gear grease. I made two tools to hold in the Torium/Trinidad surprise spring and click pin during assembly (1). Position the reel with the handle facing up (2) and select a medium screwdriver and remove the handle nut plate screw (key 128) (3).
(http://i975.photobucket.com/albums/ae238/mlmayo/Shimano%20Torium%20Trinidad/t20a_zps408ff601.jpg)
Lift off the handle nut plate (key 603) (4). Use the Shimano wrench to remove the handle nut (key 262) (5). Remove the handle (key 604) (6). Wipe both items down well.
(http://i975.photobucket.com/albums/ae238/mlmayo/Shimano%20Torium%20Trinidad/t20b_zps4fb4c12b.jpg)
Be careful to either put a towel over the entire assembly or place both your hands around the star drag as you turn. There is a spring (key 296) and click spring (key 295) under and inside the star drag. If you do not cover it, it might shoot across the room. Start to carefully unscrew the star drag (7). In this case (but not always) the two little devils are trapped by one of the washers (8). The very tiny click pin (key 295) is shown here on my finger (9).
(http://i975.photobucket.com/albums/ae238/mlmayo/Shimano%20Torium%20Trinidad/t20c_zps5090e1b0.jpg)
Remove, clean and re-grease the click spring (key 296) (10). I use the same tool for this as to hold in the spring later. Set both in a secure location near the star drag (11). Remove the washers on the drive shaft as a group (12).
(http://i975.photobucket.com/albums/ae238/mlmayo/Shimano%20Torium%20Trinidad/t20d_zpsaf3fbd4c.jpg)
It may take a couple of tries to get them all off (13). Be careful with last of the stack - the somewhat delicate bearing seal (key 270). Here are the washers in order from bottom near the bearing (left) to top near the star drag (right) (14). You might be able to see the water/salt water left after a wash down – wipe them all down. The shaft ball bearing (key 486) is located here (15). It might be easier to get the bearing out after you remove the right side plate.
(http://i975.photobucket.com/albums/ae238/mlmayo/Shimano%20Torium%20Trinidad/t20e_zpsb117f327.jpg)
I use a medium screwdriver for the four smaller screws (keys 305 & 308). The screws are easy to strip so firmly insert the screwdriver (16). Now, switch to a large screwdriver and remove the four larger screws (key 606) (17). The eight screws are arranged 4-key 606, 2-key 305, 2-key 308 (18).
(http://i975.photobucket.com/albums/ae238/mlmayo/Shimano%20Torium%20Trinidad/t20f_zps5ef4ed4b.jpg)
Remove the right side plate by lifting it straight up (19). The shaft bearing will usually come out during removal of the side plate (20). Clean it, if you have a stock one packed with grease with contact cleaner and oil it with quality oil like Speed X. The roller clutch inner tube (key 494) is seen protruding from the roller clutch (key 493) (21).
(http://i975.photobucket.com/albums/ae238/mlmayo/Shimano%20Torium%20Trinidad/t20g_zps4cc47196.jpg)
The roller clutch inner tube (key 494) is shown after removal (22). A surprise you will find somewhere is the line clip (key 280) (23). It is loosely attached in a slot on the one piece frame. Clean the inside of the side plate and pay special attention to the clutch lever assembly shown at the top (24). Paint it with grease for protection and lubrication.
(http://i975.photobucket.com/albums/ae238/mlmayo/Shimano%20Torium%20Trinidad/t20h_zps432f0aaa.jpg)
Clean and grease the roller clutch bearing (key 493), removal is not always needed (25). Look on the back of the handle and you will probably see the drive shaft shield (key 264) (26 & 27). If you regularly service your reel and use grease in these areas it will always stay attached loosely stuck to the handle.
(http://i975.photobucket.com/albums/ae238/mlmayo/Shimano%20Torium%20Trinidad/t20i_zps2071f84b.jpg)
Here is the view of the reel under the right side plate (28). Remove the main gear (key 759) and the drag stack as a unit (29). The region shown in (30) is the anti-reverse pawn (key 303) or dog as most non-Shimano people call it.
(http://i975.photobucket.com/albums/ae238/mlmayo/Shimano%20Torium%20Trinidad/t20j_zps9bd7f264.jpg)
You should oil this assembly especially at the pivot shaft (31). If it is sluggish when you move it, remove the two screws (key 305) and the anti-reverse pawl cover (key 306). Clean it well, add oil and reassemble. The narrow end of the pawl cover goes down during assembly. The dog (key 303) has two delicate INWARDLY bent ears or fingers that surround the main gear. They should HUG the gear if correctly bent. After reassembly rotate the shaft with the reel held in the horizontal position. It should stop movement in the wrong direction if the dog is working.
Clean the yoke plate (key 302) region and reapply fresh grease (32). Add a small amount of grease to the pinion gear. Remove the drag washer A (key 418) that is found under the main gear (key 759) and above the anti-reverse ratchet (key 294) and wipe down the anti-reverse ratchet (key 294) (33). Be careful not to snag the anti-reverse pawl (key 303) and bend it.
(http://i975.photobucket.com/albums/ae238/mlmayo/Shimano%20Torium%20Trinidad/t20k_zps42d7ab1a.jpg)
Clean drive gear (key 759) on the bottom and inside. Apply grease to the bottom and a bit on the teeth of the gears (34). Two different drag washers are shown in photo 35. The one on the left is the Dartanium stock drag from Shimano and the one I like is from Carbontex €“ you might see a difference in texture with the Carbontex model heavily textured. Various reasons led me to use these drags mostly because they NEVER crack when you service the reel. They are also less of a mess to clean and install. I also think they have a longer service life. Use Shimano drag grease (I now use Cal Sheet's grease on my drags) in both sides of each fiber or Dartarnium washer (36). Just a tiny amount if spread evenly is plenty. The first washer (key 291) you insert into the drive gear is the one with a LARGE HOLE be sure or you will ruin your drag.
(http://i975.photobucket.com/albums/ae238/mlmayo/Shimano%20Torium%20Trinidad/t20l_zpsb70f8344.jpg)
The next drag plate (37) has a square hole (key 290) clean it before insertion. Thread on the next washer (key 288) (38). If this is a Carbontex washer it should have heavy texture! The eared washer goes in next (key 289). The ears are visible in photo (39) the ears go DOWN in the assembly.
(http://i975.photobucket.com/albums/ae238/mlmayo/Shimano%20Torium%20Trinidad/t20m_zps4e69d939.jpg)
The eared washer (key 289) is shown correctly inserted with the ears DOWN (40). The drag stack should now be roughly flush with the main gear. The final fiber washer (key 288) from Carbontex is very lightly textured; it looks different from all other HT100-type washers (41). Two key washers (key 929) are shown in photo 42. The one on the right is a stock Shimano and the other is from Cal Sheets. I can say that I DO NOT see a great deal of difference from the use of this $18 washer upgrade. I did notice a greater improvement when I installed the Carbontex washers. Still, I have the Cal Sheets washer on my reel! The highly polished side goes DOWN toward the fiber washer. The top of the stock washer is domed or raised in appearance.
(http://i975.photobucket.com/albums/ae238/mlmayo/Shimano%20Torium%20Trinidad/t20n_zps5fd2430e.jpg)
The opposite side of the key washer is visible here (43) note it is NOT shiny, but dull on the outer rim. Again, the top of the stock washer is domed. Install the roller clutch inner tube (key 494) with the ears inward toward the slots in the key washer (44 & 45). Be sure the ears seat correctly into the key washer.
(http://i975.photobucket.com/albums/ae238/mlmayo/Shimano%20Torium%20Trinidad/t20o_zps7f8aaeae.jpg)
This photo does not do justice to the line clip (key 280) due to its blurry nature, but grease the slot where it goes and slip it in place (46). The grease will hopefully keep it there during the assembly of the rest of side plate. It only goes in from one direction. Insert the side plate onto the reel. Be easy and jiggle it until it seats well. You may also have to move the clutch lever to get the assembly to fully seat. Hold it in place with your thumb (47). Grease all screw holes and the area where the screws will seat be generous as you will wipe off the excess (48).
(http://i975.photobucket.com/albums/ae238/mlmayo/Shimano%20Torium%20Trinidad/t20p_zps76972c8c.jpg)
The right bearing (key 486) is shown just before it seated around the shaft with a gentle touch (49). Next, install the bearing seal (key 270). It is a very thin plastic item so be careful. I keep a couple of these on hand as you will find them distorted after a BIG fight and buttoned drags (50) or when you have damaged it. The bearing thrust washer (key 269) is now installed. It is a small silver washer (51).
(http://i975.photobucket.com/albums/ae238/mlmayo/Shimano%20Torium%20Trinidad/t20q_zpsc5404b52.jpg)
Pair of drag spring washers (key 267 & 268) is installed in this orientation () (52). Most people call these bellville washers. One is usually thin and the other thick, but some suggest using two thick ones for better drag pressure. You might try this if you need additional drag pounds (like on a Trinidad). A gray colored washer called the star drag washer is next (key 266) (53). Insert the cleaned and greased click spring first and then click pin into this hole (54). It should protrude out past the threads.
(http://i975.photobucket.com/albums/ae238/mlmayo/Shimano%20Torium%20Trinidad/t20r_zps7a7b6e0d.jpg)
I have made a couple of tools to hold the click pin and spring in the compressed state while I thread on the star drag (57). Push the click spring in with the flat side of a small slotted screwdriver and then insert something thin, round and stiff to hold the spring in the compressed state (55). Be careful to get in front of the spring or have it aimed at you when you do this. Until you get some facility with this you may shoot it across the room when your concentration on the spring fades and you let it go. Good bye click pin and hello Shimano! The small yellow tool is my favorite because I can get the star drag over the yellow end and let it drop down to where I can start it threading on the shaft (56). Be sure to get the threads aligned or you will strip the fine threads. You need to rotate it quite a number of times until you hear the click spring start to click. If you hear that you can let go of the tool depressing the click pin.
(http://i975.photobucket.com/albums/ae238/mlmayo/Shimano%20Torium%20Trinidad/t20s_zpse6f82974.jpg)
The star drag is correctly threaded on the shaft here and clicks nicely (58). A drive shaft shield (key 264) goes on the shaft before the handle (59). I put a thin rub of grease on all parts around the handle since this area gets wet constantly. Put on the handle (key 604). Note that I have the handle in the left hole; this is for faster retrieve. The one on the right or closest to the end of the handle is for additional power. If speed is not an issue USE THE power setting if you catch big fish, that ½ inch makes a lot of difference in your ability to turn the handle.
(http://i975.photobucket.com/albums/ae238/mlmayo/Shimano%20Torium%20Trinidad/t20t_zpsd4b357a4.jpg)
Grease the area around the shaft generously before you install the handle nut (key 262) (61). Make the nut firm, but not fully tight at this point using the Shimano wrench (key 355). Install the handle nut plate (key 603) and align it so that the hole is close the hole in the handle. Use the wrench to tighten or loosen the handle nut for an exact match. Insert and tighten the handle nut plate screw (key 128). A small slotted or medium Phillips will tighten this nicely. DO not over tighten it or the head will strip (63).
(http://i975.photobucket.com/albums/ae238/mlmayo/Shimano%20Torium%20Trinidad/t20u_zps4a2ae9a3.jpg)
Pay some attention now to the area where the hand grip spins (64). Clean and oil this area. Spin the handle quite a bit to insure that it spins freely. You may see corrosion or even a fish scale come out from under the handle. Clean and re-oil until this stops and the handle spins freely. Turn the reel over and start on the left side plate. Oil the click button (clicker) (key 616). Move it back and forth to work in the oil (65). Loosen the four screws (key 546) with a large phillips screwdriver. Pull up on the left side plate and it will come free (66).
(http://i975.photobucket.com/albums/ae238/mlmayo/Shimano%20Torium%20Trinidad/t20v_zps84d37a98.jpg)
Remove the spool by grabbing the shaft (67). Oil the left side bearing (key 484) shown in the center of the left side plate. Use contact spray if yours is filled with grease; then oil it. The difference in freespool and casting distant will surprise you when you remove the grease (68). Clean and oil the bearing on the spool (key 621) (69). Be careful not to get any spray cleaner on your line.
(http://i975.photobucket.com/albums/ae238/mlmayo/Shimano%20Torium%20Trinidad/t20w_zpsb7be15c4.jpg)
Oil the tips of both stainless portions of your spool shaft (70). Reinsert the spool with the long shaft first and the short shaft facing up. Install the left side plate. Grease all four depressions where the screws will go well. Insert the screws (71) and tighten well. Wipe off excess grease from all areas of the reel, but excess grease will usually be helpful. Adjust the cast control cap (72) (key 276) so that the spool shifts left and right just a small amount. Too much play is not better than just a little side to side movement.
(http://i975.photobucket.com/albums/ae238/mlmayo/Shimano%20Torium%20Trinidad/t20x_zps2b95dc2d.jpg)
I like to test the drags at this point. You can see that this reel gave 14 pounds of drag. I fish a Torium 20 with 30, 40 or 50# test so this is more than enough. The usual ideal is to set your drag to 25% of the line test so I need (7.5, 10 and 12.5 pounds respectively). One time I did not test the drags on a Trinidad; the result was my friend had to hand line in a 45 pound bluefin! Always check them and back them off to rest them for the fish before you put your reel away. Check free spool using blue tape to hold down the line. The reel is now ready to fish!
(http://i975.photobucket.com/albums/ae238/mlmayo/Shimano%20Torium%20Trinidad/t20y_zps025c752e.jpg)
I hope this helps you with this kind of reel. For cranking iron on the cheap or for showing your cash in the form of a shiny gold Trini - they are great reels. Send me comment on how to improve this or which other tutorials you might like/need.
Just in the process of servicing a torium 16, my first star drag, all levers till now. Anyway opened it up , after owner had previously opened it, to discover it is missing the click pin(TGT0295) and a bearing retainer(TGT0318). Few questions :
1. I presume the click pin just makes the clicking noise and could be done without ? ?
2. The bearing retainer is for the left hand side plate bearing, could this be done without as this bearing was hard to remove anyway ? ?
3. Replaced the broken drag washers with carbontex ones from smoothdrag - does this normally result in the reel handle being slightly harder to turn when drag is fully off ? ? due to slight increase in thickness of new drag washers ? ? Fine when drag is set.
4. The reel also has no anti-reverse at all - the dog/anti reverse pawl has been worn down with a semi-circle like indent worn into tip. Should there not be still some anti-reverse resulting from the roller clutch bearing(TGT0493) and roller clutch inner tube(TGT0494) ? ? both these appear in good condition.
Reel now has super freespool and lovely drag system, but both are useless when it has no anti-reverse, just want to check what I need to replace before putting order in.
Ps Spoke to shimano in UK and they have never had a torium return with the anti-reverse pawl worn and had no real informative answer to any my questions - maybe it was a friday thing ?
Any info much appreciated.
a banged up pawl is very common and is a sign that the anti-reverse bearing is failing. the AR bearing and tube need to be replaced. the ambassaduer style dog has to be replaced with a trinidad DC dog and spring. no doubt about it!
Hi septicsas, I had a similar problem with a second hand Trinidad TN16 (same as Torium 16.) I contacted Felindre Servicing re Trinidad DC dog and Spring,said they had never heard of these parts. Maybe Alan could obtain them for you in the US. I went ahead and purchased a new Anti Reverse roller bearing and Ambassaduer Dog from Felinder Servicing as it will hold up to anything I am likely to catch in the UK or Ireland.
Alan's advice is as usual spot on but unfortunately over here we do not have access to certain Shimano spares and have to do with what's available.
Quote from: alantani on July 09, 2011, 06:18:38 AM
a banged up pawl is very common and is a sign that the anti-reverse bearing is failing. the AR bearing and tube need to be replaced. the ambassaduer style dog has to be replaced with a trinidad DC dog and spring. no doubt about it!
Thought as much - read that the trinidad dc dog and spring is a direct replacement, do I need a washer to go under the spring, if so what part number for that Alan ?
Which leads me to
Quote from: Irish Jigger on July 09, 2011, 07:16:35 AM
Hi septicsas, I had a similar problem with a second hand Trinidad TN16 (same as Torium 16.) I contacted Felindre Servicing re Trinidad DC dog and Spring,said they had never heard of these parts. Maybe Alan could obtain them for you in the US. I went ahead and purchased a new Anti Reverse roller bearing and Ambassaduer Dog from Felinder Servicing as it will hold up to anything I am likely to catch in the UK or Ireland.
Alan's advice is as usual spot on but unfortunately over here we do not have access to certain Shimano spares and have to do with what's available.
I hear you there Jigger - have dealt with the welsh guys a few times and they fail to inspire - never hear of any problems you present despite the fact they are well documented, there prices can also be interesting ::)
Anyone recommend anywhere else to get parts, willing to consider the good old US as post will often arrive as quick from there as from the UK
it's a straight drop it upgrade. very simple.
Quote from: alantani on July 09, 2011, 11:41:15 PM
it's a straight drop it upgrade. very simple.
Cheers Alan,
yet again this site proves invaluable when in a pickle ;D ;D
if you need one, let me know......
If your selling the bits I need Alan, I would rather give you the money and know the right parts will come, than try deal with shimano in Uk again.
From what I gather I need the following -
roller clutch bearing(TGT0493)
roller clutch inner tube(TGT0494)
dog pawl(TGT1303) and spring(TGT1304) from trinidad dc
If you have them then send me a pm with cost and I will pay you via paypal if thats ok.
if you crank the handle and it cranks smoothly, then it means that anti-reverse roller bearing is smooth enough, even if it slips. then we can just add a $5 dog and spring set and call it done. you will save $20 by not replacing the AR bearing and inner tube. if the cranking is rough, then let's look at the AR bearing for roughness. let's also look at all the other four plain ball bearings for roughness. there are two on the spool and two more on the handle drive shaft. if all the bearings are bad, it will cost over $60 to replace them all. i've seen plenty of reels like that. send me a pm with your address and i can at least send you a dog and spring. let me know about the bearings. oh, and let's change out the drag washers if they are not upgraded yet.
yup, they are expensive reels!
Quote from: alantani on July 10, 2011, 03:07:16 AM
if you crank the handle and it cranks smoothly, then it means that anti-reverse roller bearing is smooth enough, even if it slips. then we can just add a $5 dog and spring set and call it done. you will save $20 by not replacing the AR bearing and inner tube. if the cranking is rough, then let's look at the AR bearing for roughness. let's also look at all the other four plain ball bearings for roughness. there are two on the spool and two more on the handle drive shaft. if all the bearings are bad, it will cost over $60 to replace them all. i've seen plenty of reels like that. send me a pm with your address and i can at least send you a dog and spring. let me know about the bearings. oh, and let's change out the drag washers if they are not upgraded yet.
yup, they are expensive reels!
Drags upgraded to carbontex and all other washers cleaned and lubed with reelx - reel is smooth as - easily 20 secs of freespool with it fully loaded with 40lb braid and topshot, which are IMO slowing it down, so happy enough with this end of it, not in the least bit rough, just no anti-reverse. Going to pull the clutch bearing out and thoroughly clean it again, in case too much grease and slipping.
With the costs involved I dont reallly see the point in spending a small fortune on it. If you can send me a dog and spring it would be much appreciated Alan - will send you pm with address and you can return details of where I make payment to.
i'll get one into the mail to you on monday!
Arrived safe and sound , thanks again Alan .
Done the job fine , sorted ;D
I've just done a service and drag upgrade on a Torium 30, the pinion is binding when i tighten the star, i pulled it down and rebuilt it with the original drags and no problems. The drag stack is roughly 1.5mm thicker with the carbontex, the washers are all in the right order. The plate bearing does sit slightly proud if the lip with the carbontex drag. Any ideas bar tinkering with the brake collar??????
does dawn have carbontex washers to suit the torium 30???
Just pulled mine apart and snapped a drag washer in half wiping off the old grease :-\
And where would i get the dog from, i would like to upgrade to this option having seen the results of not having done so!
Any help would be appreciated as i love this reel, couldn't do without it during the bluefin season!!!
Quote from: Tassie Fisher on September 03, 2011, 07:19:56 AM
does dawn have carbontex washers to suit the torium 30???
Just pulled mine apart and snapped a drag washer in half wiping off the old grease :-\
And where would i get the dog from, i would like to upgrade to this option having seen the results of not having done so!
Any help would be appreciated as i love this reel, couldn't do without it during the bluefin season!!!
Yes she does... I have done 3 already and have carbontex for two more coming in the mail. Just took one to La Paz and it worked perfectly. Not sure about the dog though. I have never had a failed dog yet so not too worried about it. When the time comes I will probably make that upgrade. But until I have a problem, I am rocking the stock dog system.
Thanks for the help Board4life now to order the parts and have them shipped from the U.S. Last thing i ordered was a set of drag washers for a daiwa sealine 30H, that was a month ago and still no show, so hopefully will have better luck with Dawn ;D
HI guys!!
Anyone know how to remove the Spool bearing form the right? ( picture 69)
if any idea how? please let me know!!
kind regards.
You have to pull out the pin. You can work it with some pliers... I use channel locks and can get it out with that. It is tough but manageable. Just make sure your not damaging the hole or bending anything. I think Alan actually has a great tool specially for it.
Quote from: Board4life on September 10, 2011, 08:29:06 PM
You have to pull out the pin. You can work it with some pliers... I use channel locks and can get it out with that. It is tough but manageable. Just make sure your not damaging the hole or bending anything. I think Alan actually has a great tool specially for it.
after a while and with some patience I can remove the pin... almost loose it becuse fly away... but I found it.. now I am cleaning the bearing and the I will install it again!
Thanks!!!
Regards
I just serviced my torium 30 the other day. I notice the spool shaft was sort of corroded to the pinnion gear. Problem solved with a little elbow grease. My concern is how do you know when the bearing need to be changed? At first the freespool was bad, to a point of 2-3 seconds. Now since i serviced the reel and cleaned and lubed the bearings. Free spool is at about 15-25 seconds after polishing the spool shaft. However, while casting there is a weird grinding sound when casting and retriving. Is this normal? Everything seems to be working fine, it's just the slight grinding sound.
Mark
Bearings are probably bad. Alan taught me to put the bearing in the palm of one hand. Then take your finger to the inner race of the bearing and rotate the bearing while applying some pressure. You will feel the grinding. My sensitivity is not as good as Alans, but I do find a few. Unfortunatley, I normally hear it when I put the reel back together, spin the spool and set it on the table. The table amplifies the sound for me to know that I have a bad bearing. Then I just put the spinning reel close to my ears and just listed to locate which bearing is making the sound.
Hey Brian, do you know the part # for the bearings that I need to change? I think i'm changing them both out.
I don't know the part number, sorry. I got by size. Measure ID, OD, and width. Match it up with something that Boca Bearing or SmoothDrags has and order.
let me see if I have a Torium 30 in house and I'll measure and post later tonight if my kids will let me.
Spool bearings - 6 X 12 X 4 mm. Need 2 bearings.
Do you think I can run the bearings for now? What would happen if I don't change them now?
Noisy, but don't let it go for too long or the bearing could break and that would ruin your day and possilby your spool.
Why does Dawn have 2 different bearings for the trinidad/torium? 6x12x4mm & 4x11x4mm?
Bryan I know that I need a pair of 6x12x4mm, what is the other size for?
Hmm, let me re-measure tomorrow. Sorry. Maybe I miss measured.
Quote from: tacoma09 on February 07, 2012, 06:57:26 AM
Why does Dawn have 2 different bearings for the trinidad/torium? 6x12x4mm & 4x11x4mm?
Bryan I know that I need a pair of 6x12x4mm, what is the other size for?
The left side and right side spool bearings are different sizes
I'm sure Dawn's site is correct. Must have measured and wrote something else down. Sorry. Took the reel apart, measured, and put it back together. I guess the last number stuck in my head twice when I wrote it down. :o
Has anyone do a drive shaft bearing upgrade on their torium? What are the benefits? I seen a seller in ebay selling them for 12.99.
not much need to "upgrade" that one. just pack it with grease!
I have done it to mine following a warning from our local reel mechanic that the bush leads to costly corrosion and wear in the long run. The bush wears down the drive shaft and if you don't grease it, it corrodes and gets stuck to the frame and that is a mess. It happened to a friend's reel. I suppose the grease will prevent either for a long enough time, but there is certainly no harm done in sticking a greased bearing in there, its the same as the corresponding trinidad bearing
Is there anyway to increase the drag on the torium like the trinidad? So far I upgraded the drags with carbontex and the dog too. How are the two so similar,yet different in drag specs?
Mark
the drag ranges are exactly the same. not really much that you can do to increase the drag range beyond what you already have.
I need a part for my tor30. I'm looking for a click prawl. Anyone can lead me the right direction.
Mark
call shimano at 877-577-0600 unless you are looking for the anti-reverse pawl and spring. i have a few of those left over.
Quick question, I noticed that my tor30 clicker is not how it should be. The clicker is not as loud as it should be. I know because I have another one with the clicker very loud. I'm thinking it's the clicker prawl, but I just wanted to know what's your take on it.
pop the side plate and see if you can find a worn click tongue or gear......
Last I checked the click tongue was a little worned out. Do you think that could be the problem?
probably!
just changed the click prawl on my tor30, it sure is the culprit. Quick fix. Thank Alan
Hi, newby here.
Shaking my head in frustration: the second Torium 30 anti-reverse pawl/dog has just gone. Of course the handle now turns the spool back and forth.
The first went, and I thought it an aberration: even though the construction is rather odd, with the flanges simply 'hugging' the tongue.
Now in mid fishing session, another has gone. The corner that clicks against the cog just seems to have worn?? I find this odd. Not even a small spring to help the pressure?
Anybody?
Yikes, do I toss these reels?
shimishimi
i have some trinidad DC dogs and springs left. if i can get your address, i will send them out. they are only $5 a set. that should take care of the problem. you honestly don't even need to change out the AR bearing and inner tube if you do not want to. the spring loaded dog will now be your primary anti-reverse mechanism. then do the standard drag and bearing service and maybe a handle grip upgrade and you'll be all set!
Thank for the prompt response. Will the Trinidad parts fit the Torium?
Seems to me in the Torium that it is only the dog/tongue against the gear that controls AR?
I am in South Africa...how does that play out with postage possibilities, etc?
Yes, the parts in the Trinidad will fit the Torium. if anything, doing the dog and spring upgrades and drags will be the minimum upgrade you should do. parts are light and can be shipped with minimum postage.
figure $5 for the parts and an extra $2 for postage.
Hello,
Thank you for a great tutorial, very helpful for a complete beginner with a Torium 30. I went throuhg the tutorial and managed to change drag washers and one of the bearrings, could not get the one in the left sideplate out. However, I run into some problems after reassembling the reel. I have reassembled the reel three times and at two of these occassions i can easily pull the line out no matter how hard i tighten the star wheel. Once everything worked as normal but I dont know what I did differently. There is something about setting the drag at the end but I did not understand how to. Since English is not my native toungue I might have missed something, there are quite a few new technical terms. I guess this is also what happens when you dont know what youre doing and just follow the instructions. Any help much appreciated.
Rickard, Sweden
is the pinion gear properly engaging the spool shaft? or could you have spectra that is slipping on the spool.
Quote from: alantani on August 25, 2012, 11:07:21 PM
is the pinion gear properly engaging the spool shaft? or could you have spectra that is slipping on the spool.
Found the problem, key washer wrong side down. Made all the difference. Cant believe I missed that instruction, even capital letters. Do I feel stupid ??? Thanks for the input anyway
This tutorial was nicely done and helped a lot. The only problem i had was the pinion gear did not come off the spool shaft, i didnt see any rust but it almost feels like its welded on any input on that? Also the reel becomes harder to crank. I put the washers in the correct order but does the thicker Belleville go on first or the thin one? Please help thanks.
Bga
to lift the spool shaft, stick two matching screwdrivers under the pinion gear and opposite sides and then gently turn both screwdrivers clockwise. this should work. :-\
Just did this drag upgrade, and followed the steps on #20 to remove grease from bearing, and use high quality oil. The spool spins nice with handle, and in free spool. But I notice it is noisier with the oil, rather than grease in the bearings. Is this normal?
Also, I found that following step 24 to install spring clicker a lot easier as shown on the shimano site, than making special tools to hold it in place. ( not that there is anything wrong with that) Instead of using needle nose pliers, I just held the spool, while spinning the star drag back on.
thanks.
Kayaker
Quote from: Kayaker on January 23, 2013, 10:34:33 PM
Just did this drag upgrade, and followed the steps on #20 to remove grease from bearing, and use high quality oil. The spool spins nice with handle, and in free spool. But I notice it is noisier with the oil, rather than grease in the bearings. Is this normal?
Yes, this is normal. There is nothing in the bearing to dampen the sound.
Quote from: Bryan Young on January 24, 2013, 12:16:17 AMYes, this is normal. There is nothing in the bearing to dampen the sound.
Thanks, appreciate the reply. 8)
Thanks for posting this... i just finished servicing a 14 and also found not 2 but 3 loose tiny brass washers in the right side casing. I've neglected these and reassembled and cannot find anything a miss.
Also, with regards to the spring clicker, i simply held my breath and let the beads of sweat roll down my forehead while I used a toothpick. Worked a treat!
I have seen tiny brass washers fitted under the Yoke Springs on these reels. They do not appear on the schematics however.
Anyone have a trick to remove the Drive Shaft? I can't find a way to remove the c-clip! When I spin it, it doesn't spin as freely as it should. Tried to shoot it with carb cleaner and ReelX and same thing. thanks.
i have to get in and really dig at some of them. half the time, the c-clip is damaged. i have a big box of assorted sizes, so i can easily replace them. this one is always tough. :-\
I sometimes have to ask my daughter to hold the frame while I take to dental picks and push down at the same time...and it usually take several tries.
MrAC1980, I had the same issue. I found that turning the shaft so that the opening of the clip was facing me and pushing away from me with two small flat screw drivers one on each end of the clip moved it enough to get a tool into the spaces to pull it off. If that make sense.
Can someone tell me if and what kind of lubrication should be used on the AR roller bearing and tube?
I use CorrosionX on the ARB. Sometimes I have to flush it several times if the color is rusty. I do it until the CorrosionX is clear. Nothing is needed on the tube.
Thanks Bryan. I suppose it is ok to put a thin film of grease on the drive shaft which will be under the tube. When I took this reel apart I had a very hard time removing the tube from the shaft as it was corroded to the shaft. I don't want that to happen again.
I did my Torium 30 and the max drag I can get is 7 lbs. Belleville washers are "( )" spool is properly seated in pinion. I have checked drag washers and they are in sequence. the only thing missing is the plastic bearing seal (key 270) in the drive shaft stack (the old one was shredded). Anything else I can check? or is it the Belleville washers have weakened? thanks
spectra slipping on the spool?
no, its all mono and the spool itself is turning when I apply pressure. thanks
An earlier poster had the same problem with little drag and it was due to key washer being upside down.
Hi All
Got my old trinidad 16n old after reading about the drag and dog upgrade. I can get the drag washer in the uk but cannot get the DC dog parts. Have you still got them available in the us? I was thinking about replacing the AR bearing too as is isn't as smooth as it used to be, are they still available. Finally what grease would you recommend to use on this reel?
Thanks Guys
Aloha All,
I just saw this stainless steel gear set for the Trinidad 16/20/30 on ebay.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SHIMANO-TRINIDAD-16-20-30-16DC-20DC-30DC-4-9-1-SPEED-STAINLESS-STEEL-GEARSET-/360757067318?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item53fecbfe36
I am not sure how good the quality is (tolerances) and only a purchase would prove their worth, but they look pretty good. They are made in marine grade 316 stainless steel, so the gear's composition metal is tough. I was looking for the gear set for a Trin 30A, but the site said they are coming soon. Just thought some of you may be interested.
Regards,
Ken
thanks for the link!
You are very welcome Alan. FYI ... I am sure by now you are well aware that the gear ratio is slower than the original gear sets for those sizes of the gold series, Trinidad reels. I just took notice of them by googling the original specs for the models and they are 6.2 from the 12 to the 30 and 4.9 for the 40 and 50. The gear set on Ebay is 4.9 for the 12/16/20/30 and the DC models. Reduction means torque so if anyone desires just that in a reel for their type of fishing then that would be a great find.
i think this is the same guy who was selling the 4/0 SS gears and not too happy with those gears, just a heads up guys....
Thanks for the heads up warning Mel! I will be wary of them in the future if the 30A's appear.
Quote from: septicsac on July 09, 2011, 05:03:28 AM
3. Replaced the broken drag washers with carbontex ones from smoothdrag - does this normally result in the reel handle being slightly harder to turn when drag is fully off ? ? due to slight increase in thickness of new drag washers ? ? Fine when drag is set.
Quote from: plastic tiki on August 01, 2011, 08:11:31 AM
I've just done a service and drag upgrade on a Torium 30, the pinion is binding when i tighten the star, i pulled it down and rebuilt it with the original drags and no problems. The drag stack is roughly 1.5mm thicker with the carbontex, the washers are all in the right order. The plate bearing does sit slightly proud if the lip with the carbontex drag. Any ideas bar tinkering with the brake collar??????
Has anyone answered these two questions? I am having similar problems.
I might have had the yoke upside down and it was binding. Now it seems to be better.
Still having issues, thinking it's related to thicker carbontex drag
any possibility that you left and extra drag washer in the stack? all metal washers are in the proper orientation? carbontex washers should be fine.
you have to make sure you fit the drive shaft bearing perfectly, I have had this problem before, it is not the drag stack, if it is in slightly skew, when you tighten the star it pushes sideways instead of straight down and jams against the driveshaft.
Quote from: alantani on August 08, 2014, 06:28:30 AM
any possibility that you left and extra drag washer in the stack? all metal washers are in the proper orientation? carbontex washers should be fine.
Nope, 4 washers in and 4 washers out. Yes all metal washers are correct, square washer then the eared washer facing in, and the Key Washer with the hump side facing away from the stack.
Quote from: CapeFish on August 08, 2014, 06:56:12 AM
you have to make sure you fit the drive shaft bearing perfectly, I have had this problem before, it is not the drag stack, if it is in slightly skew, when you tighten the star it pushes sideways instead of straight down and jams against the driveshaft.
I made sure it sat squared in there. I'm pretty anal about this part because I know what stuck bearings feel like and there isn't much room for error here.
I'll take it apart again today and check the stack.
Rookie mistake!
everybody's done this at least once. ;D
I'm not seeing the "rookie mistake" in the last photo. Having the same problem with my "clicking" Torium. On my last outing the dog stopped clicking. Got home and tore down the reel and found the dog spring had broken. Since It was opened up, went ahead with a complete cleaning and lube of bearings, Carbontex washers, interior of reel and replaced dog and spring.
Buttoned her up and gave it a few turns and thought mission accomplished untill I snugged up the drag. It felt like something was binding!! Disengaged the reel and there was no change, still binding..
Backed off the drag completely and the problem disappeared.
At this point I've taken it apart 4 times, double and triple checked the schematic with no luck...
I've upgraded several Toriums/Trinidads with drag washers and dog springs for my buds with excellent results and never had this problem. Thought I had these reels figured out, feeling a bit deflated/frustrated!!!
What am missing here??? ???
two screws hold the cover over the dog and spring. that cover is upside down and the main gear is rubbing against it!
See it now? ;D
Thank you gentleman! ! Looks like I've just been sent back to the minors! :D
That solved the problem and explains the tooth by tooth feel of the binding. Buttery smooth again and ready to beat up on the Mutton snapper.
Phom, the photos are excellent!! Thanks!!
Alan, thanks again for your wisdom. You've done us all a great service and compleatly changed the way I shop for reels. Find myself avoiding reels with silent anti reverse systems.The exception being the Okuma Makaira 10 that found it's way home with me a couple days ago.
Would the SS trinidad drive shaft fit in the torium?
not a match. the torium is tgt 0939.
http://fish.shimano.com/media/fishing/SAC/techdocs/en/Conventional/03TOR_16_v1_m56577569830641805.pdf
the old trinidad is tgt 0930, and it has a bearing underneath.
http://fish.shimano.com/media/fishing/SAC/techdocs/en/Conventional/00TN_16_v1_m56577569830570262.pdf
How do you remove the bearings from the spool spindle,the shaft has a pin running through it,but I cant figure out how to take it apart,they,re rusted solid on my torium 20 There is an image on the first page,its pic no.69
Alan does it this way
http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=45.0
Others use http://reelspeedsouth.com/reelspeed-spool-pin-removal-pliers/ available via Smoothdrag.com
There are others available as well. I just cannot remember the name so I have a hard time looking for the links.
Thanks,
I just had one today that the pin pliers just wouldn't do it. I have to revert back to the vise grips to get it out. The pin pliers work if the pin isn't rusted in too bad.
Is there any tutorial pics of a Trinidad 20A dissasembly here that I may have overlooked?
Quote from: wendull on December 22, 2014, 05:06:27 PM
Is there any tutorial pics of a Trinidad 20A dissasembly here that I may have overlooked?
no, but they are very similar.
One of my toriums was spinning slow so I took it apart and the bearings that are attached to the spool spindle became rusted,and I know I just recently went through this reel,maybe I should grease those bearings instead of oil,but I know that will slow it down,so now I take them apart more often to lube the bearings,But my main concern is ...will the trinidadA become corroded as fast and need more attention?
keep after the bearings. that's the main thing!
Hi Alan,
I was cleaning my reels and servicing the bearings. I'm so impressed with the engineering of the new Trinidad's. However, a very old Trinidad 20 ave me a problem. It has all of the upgrades like the mechanical dog, the Cal's drag plate, carbontex washers. But I just stripped the brass drive shaft, rats! What is the best way to get this resolved? Send the reel to Shimano, order the part and replace it or? Is there an upgrade to the brass shaft that I can install? Do you sell the part and is this a simple fix? Thanks,
Ed Gonzales in Ventura
Quote from: sierra395 on January 11, 2015, 09:08:38 PM
Hi Alan,
I was cleaning my reels and servicing the bearings. I'm so impressed with the engineering of the new Trinidad's. However, a very old Trinidad 20 ave me a problem. It has all of the upgrades like the mechanical dog, the Cal's drag plate, carbontex washers. But I just stripped the brass drive shaft, rats! What is the best way to get this resolved? Send the reel to Shimano, order the part and replace it or? Is there an upgrade to the brass shaft that I can install? Do you sell the part and is this a simple fix? Thanks,
Ed Gonzales in Ventura
I know Shimano did have a SS gear sleeve and drag plate upgrade that was sold as a kit, but I have only seen it for the 30 and 40 size reels for sale in aftermarket environment (bloodydecks). Last time I saw one up for sale the person said they bought the last three Shimano had.
Like I said, I have not seen one for the 20, but I would contact Shimano N. America directly and see what they have available as an upgrade, if nothing is available you can order the brass one while you are one the phone. You can also try Cal Sheets in Duarte, Ca area, he sold upgraded drag plates for the Trinidad, and may have some SS gear sleeves available.
Good luck.
I would be leary about sending a customized reel to Shimano, they might remove all the non-standard parts and restore it to factory stock.
Hi Ed,
All you need is to contact Shimano and order the new gear sleeve and possibly a new gear sleeve bearing. I believe the Trinidad gear sleeves only come in stainless steel while the Toriums come in brass. They are essentially the same part for the same size reel.
Also, as MarkT indicated, if you send your reel to Shimano, they will remove all of your upgrades and bring it back to stock, including drag washers, ar pawl,...
Hope this helps.
Bryan
I ordered the drive shaft from Shimano on Monday morning and received my package of parts the NEXT day, today! Wow Shimano, what exceptional service. Tremendous! I'll fix the reel on the weekend and appreciate all the folks who offered suggestions. What a great community.
Ed Gonzales
My roller clutch bearing on my TN14 got crusted up so I cleaned it, but it was still rough when turned. I ordered a new roller clutch bearing and roller clutch inner tube to replace them. I tried to remove the old bearing and the inner holder and bearings fell out. How do I remove the old crusted in roller clutch bearing? Thanks
You may want to look at http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=1654.0
I use the same method with a drill press or a bench vise.
Is it no big deal to eliminate the spring and little pin that serves as the drag clicker? I can't for the life of me get the star back on without the pin coming out.
NM. I just had to walk away for moment lol.
I have 2 Trinidad TN16 reels that I'm repairing. I can't seem to find the roller clutch bearing, TGT0281, anywhere. Does anyone know where I can find them?
Thanks in advance...
Just thought I'd elaborate a bit. I originally found this place when a friend asked me to look at a couple of old Penn Senators. Thanks to the tutorials here they are as good as new after years of neglect and abuse. Now I'm moving into the more complicated gear, this pair of TN16's. Unfortunately I tend to tear into them first, read the tutorial second. I'll learn the hard way I suppose. With the schematics and many times taking them apart and putting them back together I think I have it sorted out. I've looked at the Shimano parts site, they have the TGT0281 as discontinued. I thought I'd check here and see if there was a better source. $Mikes$ site lists them but I have several other parts backordered there so I came here to see what you all have to say.
Anyone?
edit to add
OK so I found the answer and wanted to document it here in case anyone else needs it. Jennifer from fishingreelparts.com tells me that BNT2952 is the same part. I ordered them up so I should be all set. BNT2952 = TGT0281
Quote from: Kayote on February 25, 2015, 09:16:34 PM
My roller clutch bearing on my TN14 got crusted up so I cleaned it, but it was still rough when turned. I ordered a new roller clutch bearing and roller clutch inner tube to replace them. I tried to remove the old bearing and the inner holder and bearings fell out. How do I remove the old crusted in roller clutch bearing? Thanks
on my friends reel (gold trini 20) the IAR bearing got trashed and needs a new one.
I have two questions:
1. can someone tell me whats the size to order a new one from Smoothdrag
2. why its necesary to order the inner tube as well when you get a new IAR bearing?
thanks in advance amigos
Quote from: steelfish on October 04, 2016, 01:06:22 AM
on my friends reel (gold trini 20) the IAR bearing got trashed and needs a new one.
I have two questions:
1. can someone tell me whats the size to order a new one from Smoothdrag
2. why its necesary to order the inner tube as well when you get a new IAR bearing?
anyone?
Tell Dawn what you need. She can probably tell you what the correct one is.
You don't really need to replace the inner tube portion, but that is the weak link, first to break so I would replace it. At least you'll have a spare. You never see any marks on it, right? That's because it is brutally hard but it is also brittle. Some say that they need to be replaced together, kind of like a pinion and main gear, they wear in together.
ok, that sounds fair, thanks Hamachi
Hello all, I have a Torium 20 first gen that I got from someone. I took it apart yesterday and cleaned everything. I have figured out that all bearings have basically dissolved. It was pretty bad inside, like it has never been serviced. I'll need both spool bearings, the left side plate bearing, right side plate bearing and the needle bearing next to it. Also going to replace the drag washers and handle. What's the best way to get something like this going? I'm still new to the site.
Alan's fishing, but someone will be along shortly. I have that reel but not torn it down. What I am pretty confident of is that you are looking at close to a hundred bucks of Shimano parts- check Boca bearings first, and depending on what you do with this reel, get a knob from Alan when he returns. They are the Cadillac- the 3/0 knob ( his designation) will be great on that reel.
John
Yea, trying to decide if it is worth the cost to put it back together. Thanks for pointing me towards Boca Bearings.
You might try Dawn at Smooth Drag first- she should have drags and maybe bearings too.
How can I post a picture? The file is 28mb and it says it's too big.
How can I tell which Torium 20 I have. It's the light silver color but has the anti reverse upgrade.
Quote from: jrhall86 on January 12, 2022, 02:53:01 PM
How can I tell which Torium 20 I have. It's the light silver color but has the anti reverse upgrade.
Send the pictures to me at mkrawson54@gmail.com. I can help you with the parts you need.
Keith
Quote from: jrhall86 on January 12, 2022, 02:53:01 PM
How can I tell which Torium 20 I have. It's the light silver color but has the anti reverse upgrade.
There's only the original which you have and the darker Torium 20hg or pg which are the 2nd (current) generation.
I have the original with the Trinidad DC spring loaded dog upgrade.
Keith, just checking in to make sure you received my emails. I sent you a couple directly.
John
So I have a Torium 20 gold on the bench, it has a broken clutch lever (tgt0608), which is apparently obsolete. Anyone know of a possible source or substitute for one?
Try a tekota
nah, we're good. bill. i just put one into the mail for you.