Does anybody use a 3/0 or a 4/0 for surf casting? Looking into getting one of these for my next project - I'd be using it for casting to sharks, and possibly bull reds. Full set of upgrades would go into it - new handle arm and grip, SS gear sleeve, new drag stack, and more than likely powder coating (now that I know what can and can't be powder coated). I'd load it with 300 yards of 50# braid, and then top it off with 30# mono.
Also - planning on a 4/0 or a 4/0W project as well. This will be loaded with 100 pound braid and probably a topshot of 80 pound mono, used for bigger fish from a boat - stingrays, sharks, grouper, cobia, and maybe others. Won't be getting a one-piece aluminum frame, but it'll get all the other goods (drag, gear sleeve, handle, etc). Going on a 6'6" solid glass thorhammer.
Let me know what you think
-Drew
Both will cast but are way overkill for a drum. At OBX the little 525 Mag's routinely park drum over 50 lbs. Your limiter in casting any reel is really your handspan to hold the spool down, then educating your thumb. I was able to get 50 yds out of a 9/0 with a lb of lead but that isn't really practicable. Remember you have that Daiwa 50...all aluminum and about the same as a 3/0. Carbontex drags and fish it. They are very castable and a great choice for what you want.
Next best bet is a 990 or 980 Magpower. 4/0 drags and will really sling if you do the bearings.
I'm wanting to stick with a Penn - never actually bought that Daiwa 50, I'm OCD and already have Penn spinners so I'm planning to keep everything Penn for now. It'll be mostly for sharks - if I end up getting a bull red on the setup it'll be fun, but the setup's designed to be used for sharks. I was worried about the frame torquing on the GS and the MAG series - but a 555MAG or 555GS was up near the top of my list, before I heard about this.
I have the Penn Mag 980, which is good for casting, with magnetic control. I'm not much of a reel geek (or sharker), but my understanding from various notes on the site is that it is as strong as a 113H, yet it is more compact for casting. Or why not a Jigmaster?
The quintessential squidder was designed to surf cast for drum and stripers. No Penn-head would be without one.
-steve
Don't worry about torqueing a Magpower; it has solid bars and you'd torque a 3/0 first most likely. You may be in the dirt first. The larger GS's are also very castable; I got a hundo easily with 545 and 20 lb mono. Sorry, I thought you had the 50 in-hand.
There isn't a 555 Mag, unless you have it magged. I recall UK got some 535 and maybe 545's but rare as hen's teeth here. Keep in mind learning to throw any baitcaster, let alone a conventional reel, at night with wind, waves and bait is a different matter entirely than flat ground in afternoon. Buy a big spool of line, magged or not....9500ss...
Hi Drew,
Yes the 3/0 and 4/0 can be used in surf casting. We even use 6/0 reels in surf casting in Hawaii, but not for me. I don't have large enough hands for the 6/0 reel.
Those reels for 30# top seems a bit large. I would steer you towards a jigmaster instead. Much easier to cast than a 3/0 or 4/0. Plus the cost of the braid to fill those two reels.
And the 4/0 or wide. 80# is much for the 4/0. Better suited is a 6/0 reel with the line strength you are talking about.
Yes there are some that cast their Senators, this guy does it best:
http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=9570.msg87518#msg87518
Sal
Guys Surfcasting from the shore on this island(kaua'i) are usually goin after GT's(ulua) and usin ~6oz. Wt. with a slider hook rig(with live bait, usually reef fish)and the most commonly used reel seems to be a 4/0. Many are HLW's and a fair number have upgrades(esp. Newell stuff). Me, I'mna take my chances with a surfcast-designed-spinner ana 10.5 ft Loomis that I can chuck lures with, hopefully without gettin too tired. If I's gonna go to a Senator it'ed be a 4/0, but I'd really wanna strenghen it with a non-post frame( half or full frame). Also, I'd probably mag it( magnets glued to inside of the tail plate) as the start-up of the spool at the beginning of the cast can backlash ya quickly on these conventionals.
Gfish
Quote from: Gfish on May 22, 2017, 10:30:10 PM
Guys Surfcasting from the shore on this island(kaua'i) are usually goin after GT's(ulua) and usin ~6oz. Wt. with a slider hook rig(with live bait, usually reef fish)and the most commonly used reel seems to be a 4/0. Many are HLW's and a fair number have upgrades(esp. Newell stuff). Me, I'mna take my chances with a surfcast-spinner ana 10.5 ft Loomis that I can chuck lures with, hopefully without gettin too tired. If I's gonna go to a Senator it'ed be a 4/0, but I'd really wanna strenghen it with a non-post frame( half or full frame). Also, I'd probably mag it( magnets glued to inside of the tail plate) as the start-up of the spool at the beginning of the cast can backlash ya quickly on these conventionals.
Gfish
I agree Gfish. I've never been good at casting conventionals though. The taller rod helps keep the line above the wave break that happens near shore, and I can pendulum cast pretty well now, so I don't have to wade in anymore. I've pulled baby blacktips on my 12 ft. penn rod with a stock 6500 SSV, on 20 lb flouro drop rigs. I was hoping for pompano, but it seems sharks like sand fleas too. :(
Quote from: Alto Mare on May 22, 2017, 10:21:18 PM
Yes there are some that cast their Senators, this guy does it best:
http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=9570.msg87518#msg87518
Sal
Deiter's one my reel repair hero's, for steppin over a line that I've been tempted by many times but, I just couldn't pull the trigger.
Gfish
Hey I thought there was a no politics rule on this site?
I'd like to cast my senator into a crocodile pit!
Sand Fleas for Sharks?
That sounds like a fish story. ;D
Quote from: Shark Hunter on May 22, 2017, 10:39:47 PM
Sand Fleas for Sharks?
That sounds like a fish story. ;D
I have the pictures on Toni's phone. I think we caught three that day. That's also when I dropped one short of the surf and used a sand flea rake to get him back in the water. :-[
Try a 2/0 or a 3/0 .
My Grandpa could huck a 2/0 as far as any Jigmaster...
Best,
JT
Aloha JT,
The 4/0, especially 113HLW has been a staple of shorecasting for Ulua/GT's here in Hawaii for a long time. I personally have a 2 113h's, a T4W with all the ss upgrades and one with a Newell Broadbill kit. I also really like the new US113W, IMO this reel is a better option if you want something solid out of the box vs spending 3x as much upgrading a 113H. We use these on specialized ~13' surf rods typically with straight 60lb mono and 8-10+oz weight. It's not uncommon for an experienced caster to reach over 100yrds and exceptional casters to hit 150+ with a well tuned 4/0 and their preferred rod using the pendulum technique. PM me if you'd like a little more info or tips on casting them. I'm not an expert but consider myself a capable distance caster.
Here's my hot rodded 113HLW used for slide-baiting.
(http://i.imgur.com/o3WNmcw.jpg)
Aloha,
Kyle
Here's a video of ulua casting in a cliff area
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQhn6w6Idjk
If you'd like to get the gist of what ulua fishing from shore is about here's a great video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xe7Lfl2phTg
Here are some factory ulua rods available for sale that would really be ideal for pairing with a 4/0 and are excellent fish fighting tools. IMO the Penn Carnage is the best off the shelf ulua rod, 2nd is Shimano Tallus. Custom rods are popular among the dedicated guys and can get very expensive with a lot of different choices in blanks and hardware.
https://www.hifishgear.com/collections/ulua-rods
Yogi,
Great vid and just one more reason to make it back to the islands.
Love the big 13 footers.
Best
JT
Don't be intimidated by the seemingly very large spool you'll be able to grip it fine with practice (a cut section of bicycle inner tube helps when u area really generating a lot of torque). If fairly small local fishermen (Think 5'6" Japanese guy with small hands) can blast out a 4/0 then anyone can with practice. If you have enough room at your spot, let your weight out ~5' from the tip and lay the lead down behind you at 2 o'clock. Instead of casting overhead, bring the rod around your side (maximizes loading the blank) and release. You'll need to practice to find the sweet spot as far as balance weight for the rod, speed of the come-around during cast to load the blank and the release point. A lot of beginners make the error of "pushing" the rod to generate power, pulling down on the butt and using your legs tp step-in and push forward is much more effective.
Aloha,
Kyle
Yip, they have been used here for years till the Japanese made reels took over and they are rarely seen today, we fish them in the reel at the bottom position and just make sure you use one with an aluminium spool
Quote from: Yogi_fish808 on May 23, 2017, 06:45:23 AM
Don't be intimidated by the seemingly very large spool you'll be able to grip it fine with practice (a cut section of bicycle inner tube helps when u area really generating a lot of torque). If fairly small local fishermen (Think 5'6" Japanese guy with small hands) can blast out a 4/0 then anyone can with practice. If you have enough room at your spot, let your weight out ~5' from the tip and lay the lead down behind you at 2 o'clock. Instead of casting overhead, bring the rod around your side (maximizes loading the blank) and release. You'll need to practice to find the sweet spot as far as balance weight for the rod, speed of the come-around during cast to load the blank and the release point. A lot of beginners make the error of "pushing" the rod to generate power, pulling down on the butt and using your legs tp step-in and push forward is much more effective.
Aloha,
Kyle
Ya I get it Kyle.
I have been surf fishing since I was a kid , although with big spinners , I started using conventionals about 5 year's ago.
Still fine tuning it. I can create some huge bird's nests!
Thanks for the detailed/informative post Kyle. I have a feeling I'll be re-readin it a few times, especially if I destroy my Ultegra spinner, or get spooled ona ulua. Casts a country mile, but it's mostly "plastic".
That website's a great reference too. I'll be spendin some time perusing that one.
Gfish
Thanks for the information and videos Kyle. Very much appreciated.
Steve
I need to think about this now - I've got a lot of options on hand. I was thinking of a 3/0 Senator at first because of the line capacity, but really anything that could hold around 350 yards of 20 pound mono would probably work fine for shark casting. So, options now are:
-Squidder 140
-970 or 980 Mag
-535 or 545 Mag
-2/0 Senator
-Jigmaster 500, 501, 505, or 506
Any of these will more than likely handle most sharks up to 6 feet, maybe even bigger. I think a 3/0 or 4/0 will be overkill unless I end up running straight mono, which isn't planned.
Oh, and Sal - that video made me mad for whatever reason ;D
I really liked that Video Kyle.
Thank You
I can cast my 80 international 40 to 50 yards , the smaller ones 75 to 125 yards.
Quote from: diamonddave on May 24, 2017, 01:06:11 AM
I can cast my 80 international 40 to 50 yards , the smaller ones 75 to 125 yards.
Casting an 80 International is a new one to me. Guess you could use veey light drag to help keep that heavy spool under control?
John
Quote from: Tightlines666 on May 24, 2017, 01:28:12 AM
Quote from: diamonddave on May 24, 2017, 01:06:11 AM
I can cast my 80 international 40 to 50 yards , the smaller ones 75 to 125 yards.
Casting an 80 International is a new one to me. Guess you could use veey light drag to help keep that heavy spool under control?
John
I want to see video of this.....
This is a very interesting topic. Casting from volcanic cliffs over the Pacific and reeling in bullet-train fish -- extreme fishing! Very cool, and gets the blood going.
On the other hand, it is nothing like surf fishing the U.S. East Coast. ;D
not good at videos set reel in free spool and cast educated thumb for control .
Kyle, not sure how I missed that video - that's a killer style of fishing! It's on my bucket list now, can't wait until the day I catch my first GT - and the day I catch one from shore will be twice as good :)
Really takes big game fishing to a new extreme.
As far as a casting reel, I am leaning towards a 535 or 545 Mag. After that it would be a squidder 140 or one of the jigmasters.
A jigmaster with the alantani treatment (polishing all friction points, removing grease and lubing with tsi321) will bomb a balanced lead and bait pretty far. They're very capable, reliable reels with a lot of aftermarket parts if you want them. I think I'm getting 100-120 yards with 8oz on my newell 2 3/4" extended 500 jigmaster that still has spool bushings, not ball bearings. If you have an educated thumb take a look at the fathom/squall star drag reels in 20-40 size. Very good value on either and imo good quality for the price point.
Quote from: Yogi_fish808 on May 27, 2017, 04:58:00 AM
A jigmaster with the alantani treatment (polishing all friction points, removing grease and lubing with tsi321) will bomb a balanced lead and bait pretty far. They're very capable, reliable reels with a lot of aftermarket parts if you want them. I think I'm getting 100-120 yards with 8oz on my newell 2 3/4" extended 500 jigmaster that still has spool bushings, not ball bearings. If you have an educated thumb take a look at the fathom/squall star drag reels in 20-40 size. Very good value on either and imo good quality for the price point.
the problem with all the older Penn reels including the GS 535, 545 and 555 is the gap between spool and frame is too big, unless you use very thick line, it gets stuck between the frame and spool or even goes inside. It ruins the line and your fishing trip. A Shimano 15/30, 20/40, Daiwa SL series are all well priced and a pleasure to cast and doesn't suffer from this problem. Luckily the new Fathom has been cured of this.
The issue of casting with multipliers in a surf situation, and specifically for sharks, is not just capacity, but also drag capability, and the ability of the reel to be sufficiently fast to allow the line to follow the sinker and bait, and not hold it back.
A simple analogy would be trying to push a sedan tyre down hill, and next to it a tractor trye. The sedan tyre will get up to speed quickly, and go quite fast, while the tractor tyre will take a lot more initial effort to get it going, and once moving will cover more ground per revolution, but be equally difficult to slow down.
Relating this back to bigger diameter multipliers, the older school reels will do the job, but they will need a lot more controlling factors like magnets or very educted thumbs to keep them going smooth once they get past the initial start up issues. While smaller spool reels will be quick to start up, and spin away very fast, but be more controlable, especially with the benefit of eductated thumbs or magnets.
Senators and big Diawa Sealines were once popular with shark anglers in southern Africa, but were soon replaced by smaller more controllable reels like Diawa Saltist/Saltiga and Shimano Trinidad and Torium models, as we as a few others. What the changeoever did for the anglers was to give them more control inthe cast, as well as immediately more distance - which was instantly the cause of the demise of the older style reels. Reels like the original Shimaon Trinidad 30 could be loaded with 300 metres or 50lb braid as backing then a nylon top shot of 40-50lb line to endure the casting issues, giving a total reel capacity of near 600 metres - more than enough for most sharks encountered in local waters. A quick drag upgrade to Carbontex, and clean out the bearing grease to be replaced with light oils, and they were ready to go and be abused, and still win.
At the end of the day, it will always be horses for courses, and folks will swear by or at a specific theme. Best make an educted decision based on the maximum amount of information. The problem now is that pretty much throughout southern Africa, multipliers have been replaced by fixed spool (spinners) and braid, and some reels with awesome drag rating that defy the actual anglers holding the rod and reel on the beach.
Cheers from sunny Africa,
Jeri
Locally in the RSA the Senator and Jigmaster were displaced by the Daiwa 350 and then the SL50 and the Shimano speedmaster before the saltiga and trinidad came on the scene, some 20 plus years ago for heavy surf fishing in the league and sport scene. I was fortunate to live next to a national team shore angler and he had a box full of literally worn out Jigmasters, they saw extremely heavy use and were way beyond repair, was amazing to see how fortunate he was to be able to fish so much! As the tackle got better the size of fish he caught got better and as you say, with braid bumping the capacity of an average reel through the roof, plus strong drags the sharks got even bigger.
It's almost like the car analogy:
American Muscle against Rice burner technology.
But, there are newer American options: Avet and Truth(Release), both US made, and capable.
The shark in the photo below was 116kgs (255lbs), landed on an Avet LX 6:1, with 40lb mono and 50lb braid backing - 8'+ to precaudal notch.
(http://i1381.photobucket.com/albums/ah205/JeriDr/Picture%20077_zpsveuxb7u1.jpg)
So, the choice gets even wider as time goes on.
Cheers from sunny Africa
Jeri
In my previous life, my go-to casting reel was a Senator 9/0 (even before the aluminum spool models). Was able to pitch it out 80-100 yards. Caught a lot of fish on them.
These days, I doubt that anyone casts that size reel. Even using a 6/0 is rare. More people use smaller reels or the light Newell reels that hold perhaps as much line as a 9/0.
Quote from: Makule on May 30, 2017, 02:15:58 AM
In my previous life, my go-to casting reel was a Senator 9/0 (even before the aluminum spool models). Was able to pitch it out 80-100 yards. Caught a lot of fish on them.
These days, I doubt that anyone casts that size reel. Even using a 6/0 is rare. More people use smaller reels or the light Newell reels that hold perhaps as much line as a 9/0.
Thats nuts! My small Okinawan hands couldn't grip a 9/0 spool mounted on the thick fiberglass rods with #32+ reel seats back in the day. With practice I MIGHT be able to handle a 114hlw or Black Marlin with a slow enough taper rod that loads easily but definitely not anything bigger for casting any beyond a dumpshot.
I have no doubt you could pull that off Robert.
Your style of fishing is not like that of any others here.
It wasn't your previous life, You were just younger then. ;)
There is a man called Big Lou who does demo casts and one of the rigs he has is a surf rod with a 16/0 that is quite spectacular.....so I heard. I found reference to it in Reel Talk at ORCA and I recall a story in the newsletter.
Quote from: Superhook on June 01, 2017, 05:09:03 AM
There is a man called Big Lou who does demo casts and one of the rigs he has is a surf rod with a 16/0 that is quite spectacular.....so I heard. I found reference to it in Reel Talk at ORCA and I recall a story in the newsletter.
That's "Big Lou" McEachern . . . Back in the day ( 1991 ), he cast completely over the Houston Astrodome.
https://www.beaumontenterprise.com/news/article/Fannett-s-Big-Lou-cast-fishing-line-clear-4593298.php (https://www.beaumontenterprise.com/news/article/Fannett-s-Big-Lou-cast-fishing-line-clear-4593298.php)(https://s.hdnux.com/photos/22/14/13/4768488/3/1024x1024.jpg)
Tight Lines !
Quote from: ez2cdave on February 15, 2018, 12:14:07 AM
Quote from: Superhook on June 01, 2017, 05:09:03 AM
There is a man called Big Lou who does demo casts and one of the rigs he has is a surf rod with a 16/0 that is quite spectacular.....so I heard. I found reference to it in Reel Talk at ORCA and I recall a story in the newsletter.
That's "Big Lou" McEachern . . . Back in the day ( 1991 ), he cast completely over the Houston Astrodome.
https://www.beaumontenterprise.com/news/article/Fannett-s-Big-Lou-cast-fishing-line-clear-4593298.php (https://www.beaumontenterprise.com/news/article/Fannett-s-Big-Lou-cast-fishing-line-clear-4593298.php)
(https://s.hdnux.com/photos/22/14/13/4768488/3/1024x1024.jpg)
Tight Lines !
Did he catch anything?
I'm very seldom impressed with long casts. But this toss acros the Astrodome is impressive... Jeff