Here in South Florida there's no shortage of fishing gear. A quick look on OfferUp or Craigslist and you can literally find almost anything you want. My plan is to take my 8-year-old fishing and get him started enjoying the water.... We have a deck boat that's sort of a dual purpose family boat but I plan to put a couple rod holders in the back nothing serious like when I was younger. Eventually we will probably get somewhat more of a dual console and as he grows older will do some more hardcore fishing.
My experience has been mostly with Penn 4/0s 3/0s 6/0's and also with TLD s 20 25 -30s. Long ago because I wanted to grease drag convert some TLD 25s. Anyway long story short sold the boat long ago along with the reels and now I'm looking to get back in.
So here are my questions. I have opportunity to buy some TLD 25s fairly inexpensive. However knowing how damn OCD I am I will want them completely converted and gone through, upgraded levers handles greased drags etc. That is common enough to never go out of style.
I've learned to use them pretty well.
Now I know that converting the greased drag will gain you about 6 lbs of drag, since I converted four of these.... but I guess my first question is whether or not an upgraded TLD 25 could really replace a TLD 30. TLD 25s around here are a dime a dozen.... 30s are definitely a bit more expensive. The answer to my question however I wanted to throw it out there anyway. Money is not necessarily the issue, I can buy whatever I want.... however I like to get value for money and not overdo it unnecessarily that's why I've always loved the older Shimano tlds.
Another question I have is what is the best saltwater baitcasting set up at the moment? I used to have an ambassador 4000 and also a Corvalus... But I know things have changed over the years and would like some input. What I'm really looking for are reels that are high quality yet not necessarily extremely expensive. I don't mind at all buying older reels.
Also please excuse my grammar I dictate most of what I do and although I try to do well with the grammar to be honest I just don't care as much as I used to. 😀.
Not a fan of spinners but I used to have a couple of bait runners never did like spinning rods however.
If you're wondering what we plan on fishing for it would be mostly intracoastal since the boat is not really ready to take on anything over 1 to 2 ft.... So for now we'll stick it out on the inside probably look for some lane snapper and the occasional really big Jack crevall's just to give my son a thrill on his first big fish. Of course we'll do some snooking, maybe some tarpon and whatever else hangs out near the inlets.... sheepshead, cuda, and whatever else hangs out nearby.
All the stuff you use to use will still work now except maybe the Corvallis, might be hard to get parts for. Stick with what you know or get new stuff? Really up to you, some of the newer reels are pretty sweet though, maybe check some out in a shop
Welcome!
For the eight year old:
If you plan on having him cast, it is probably better to start out with a spinner. Once he gets the hang of it, he will want to switch to conventional reels "like Dad", but maybe better not to have to deal with the frustration of backlashes when first starting out. Depends on the kid, so you will be the best judge. Lots of cheap, low cost spinners out there that will work pretty well for a couple years of occasional use. Once you switch him to conventional reels, start with a reel with cast control.
For saltwater casting levelwinds:
The newer low profiles are pretty capable. We all have our preferences, but the main models are Shimano Tranx, Daiwa Lexa, Okuma Komodo and Abu Revo. While these reels are capable, they are not as durable and trouble free as smaller star drags without the levelwinds. The older round levelwind reels like the Ambassadors and Calcuttas still cast great, but with the advent of braid, they no longer match up for the amount of load you want to handle relative to the reel/capacity size.
Same thing goes for the TLDs. They are great reels but are now too large in capacity and weight for braid of the same supported line class, especially in the larger models. In the single speeds, you can usually get parts up to the 20/25 models. If you plan to fish mono, the TLDs still have their place. I still lug around a TLD 20II to winch yellowtail off the rocks in Baja, but am lusting after the smaller/lighter modern two speed lever drags. Hard to make a recommendation here without knowing how you plan to use them. If you are just trolling a surface spread, mono works just fine, but if you are dropping bait or jigging, braid provides a significant advantage, and you might want a more modern reel that is sized for braid. But if you just like fishing the TLD's, they will definitely get the job done.
Greasing the drag decreases the coefficient of friction, so you actually get less max drag before the side load damages the bearings, but the drag you do get until then will be smoother.
If you are fishing inshore for tarpon, jacks and small to medium snappers, I would consider sticking to star drags. The denizens here at alantani.com like to upgrade old Penns, but there are a ton of new and not-THAT-old models from the big names that are quite capable and cheaper without requiring upgrades. Shimano TLD Stars, Daiwa SL-SHA. etc, etc, etc. Reels with "graphite" frames and sideplates can be more than strong enough for this type of fishing, and are easier to maintain and cheaper than all aluminum reels.
Hope this helps,
-J
There's not much inshore in FL beside bull sharks that require a TLD25 or above. Unless you're targeting tarpon or cobia most can be caught on a 4000-size spinner or below.
But there's nothing wrong with just personally liking given families of reels. I also have preferences that I can't explain.
For the kid if you really wanna skip the spinners, I can tell you that I have the coordination of a kid, and i learned how to use a baitcaster via a $45 Abu blackmax. I chose it for myself for the same reason it'd be good for a kid: no large investment in tackle they might not like. Now I've graduated to fancier stuff but I still like my blackmax.
Are you east or west coast? Welcome, from Pasco County.
For a youngster and looks like this will be his first Fish and Reel the old adage holds true here as in
(KISS)keep it simple stupid ...lol(thanks Tommy for reviving the usage thereof to my limited vocabulary). and get a Reel and Rod he can keep for his lifetime of enjoyment
People May Scoff and belittle this however for the fish you mentioned in your post a Good used older all Metal Zebco 33,and for bigger fish an Older Zebco 1.
Parts are readily available, simple to work on, easy to use .
New reels suck MOSTLY unless you want to spend GOBS of money for a Name and most likely made of crapola and no parts after a year or so .
Spinners I am sure have their place but I pretty much loathe them (although I have a carload of them ...lol) as I can cast a conventional old reel or open faced three or four times before you get the bail open that won't close after a while on your three handed manipulative line dropping Spinning Reel before you can cast it .
As he grows older and develops hand eye coordination better let him decide if he wants a more complicated rig like a spinning set up .(By the time he gets our age they will probably have Drones to search out ,select the species you want ,laser beam them and retrieve cleaned and fried up with Garnishing 's to your table, (BUT WEIGHT order now and get two More Fisherman Retrievers FREE just pay and additional Charge not available in California because of Cancer and nose Wart Risks ) that is if there are any un- contaminated fish left .
Old is definitely a good option and well made . Older Daiwa's with all metal Frames and side plates ,Ocean City , Penn and others later on for both Father . Mother,and Son and many upgrades for some of these to tackle most anything on the planet.
Bottom line>
Kids like to CATCH FISH not work their ARSES off trying to .
There is Nothing more exhilarating to a youngster than to see a Cork Bob up and down then disappear with a HUGE 2-5 ounce Piggy Perch or Croaker on the end of the Line .
So the easier it is for them to do the more likely they will continue on in life practicing the Marvelous recreational therapeutic art we call FISHUN !!!! :fish
Spinners have their place but in my opinion start your son off right and avoid them for now. It will take more practice but down the road it will pay off.
Quote from: Wompus Cat on August 12, 2022, 11:49:31 AMSpinners I am sure have their place but I pretty much loathe them (although I have a carload of them ...lol) as I can cast a conventional old reel or open faced three or four times before you get the bail open that won't close after a while on your three handed manipulative line dropping Spinning Reel before you can cast it .
I'm hesitant risk derailing this thread, but I'm calling BS on this. I bet if we lined up 5 spinners and 5 baitcasters or conventionals (of your choice) a few yards away and see who can aim and throw 5 casts first, I'd bet on spinners winning.
Quote from: JasonGotaProblem on August 12, 2022, 12:44:00 PMQuote from: Wompus Cat on August 12, 2022, 11:49:31 AMSpinners I am sure have their place but I pretty much loathe them (although I have a carload of them ...lol) as I can cast a conventional old reel or open faced three or four times before you get the bail open that won't close after a while on your three handed manipulative line dropping Spinning Reel before you can cast it .
I'm hesitant risk derailing this thread, but I'm calling BS on this. I bet if we lined up 5 spinners and 5 baitcasters or conventionals (of your choice) a few yards away and see who can aim and throw 5 casts first, I'd bet on spinners winning.
Glad to prove you wrong just bring an 8 year old which is what this post was about to Lake Whitney most any Day and I will Show you how it's done and I said I can do it plus it is 3 or 4 times not 5 and I will furnish the equipment . you have 30 days from the date of this post to set this up. . After that I am busy being. retired . :fish ;D ;D ;D
Quote from: JasonGotaProblem on August 12, 2022, 12:44:00 PMQuote from: Wompus Cat on August 12, 2022, 11:49:31 AMSpinners I am sure have their place but I pretty much loathe them (although I have a carload of them ...lol) as I can cast a conventional old reel or open faced three or four times before you get the bail open that won't close after a while on your three handed manipulative line dropping Spinning Reel before you can cast it .
I'm hesitant risk derailing this thread, but I'm calling BS on this. I bet if we lined up 5 spinners and 5 baitcasters or conventionals (of your choice) a few yards away and see who can aim and throw 5 casts first, I'd bet on spinners winning.
is that why all the bass pro's who "get paid to cast more", use spinners? ??? ...oh, wait -- they don't :P
No i think its because
A. They think it makes them cooler
B. They don't want others who can't use a baitcaster to think they can catch bass like that if they showed up and put in the work
C. I'm just kinda stirring the pot now. Don't take any offense.
Inshore FL?
If you're gonna fish w/the youngun, don't forget a light (6-8#) setup for the small stuff (trout reds & baby jacks) to keep it fun. Like a 2500/3000 size spinning reel on a 6-1/2' stick (rated 6-12#). Then maybe a medium (12-17#) bait caster like a 6000 Ambassadeur (great value, proven rugged & smooth too) on a 7' MH bass rod for Dad. For that bigger jack. Or substitute a 4000 size spinner.
You can pull out your TLD25 as a 30# outfit for anything bigger (sharks, tarpon & that trophy jack). Like others have said, consider a newer conventional or level wind reel if you want to up your game. Used Daiwas (Sealine, Saltist & Lexa) are a solid value imo. Pair w/a 30# glass or composite rod & you're good to go.
If you're patient & vigilant, you should be able to piece together 3 quality used outfits for <$500. That your kid will enjoy well after he surpasses the old man as a catching machine.
Gud luk!
Just last week, I was fishing next to a panga with a group of four newbies livebaiting dorado. The guy with the spinning reel (upside down :) ) was fishing, and the three guys with conventionals were waiting for the pangero to straighten out their backlashes.
Or let me try this another way: Let's say there is a group of eight olds in a intro to fishing class. Now it is time for casting lessons. Half get conventionals, half get spinners. I'll take the group with the eggbeaters, thank you. Spincasters like the old Zebcos would probably be even better for trouble free casting, but I don't remember coming across any that had a decent drag mechanism.
No fan of spinners for most situations myself, but like Henry was saying, the goal is to get the kid to experience the tug of any fish before frustration or boredom sets in.
-J
Quote from: jurelometer on August 12, 2022, 05:32:42 PMJust last week, I was fishing next to a panga with a group of four newbies livebaiting dorado. The guy with the spinning reel (upside down :) ) was fishing, and the three guys with conventionals were waiting for the pangero to straighten out their backlashes.
Or let me try this another way: Let's say there is a group of eight olds in a intro to fishing class. Now it is time for casting lessons. Half get conventionals, half get spinners. I'll take the group with the eggbeaters, thank you. Spincasters like the old Zebcos would probably be even better for trouble free casting, but I don't remember coming across any that had a decent drag mechanism.
No fan of spinners for most situations myself, but like Henry was saying, the goal is to get the kid to experience the tug of any fish before frustration or boredom sets in.
A tip for beginners, use cheep mono, strip off a bit more line that you think you will be casting and tape the spool. Backlashes (they happen to the best of us) are far easier to clear when they are not all the way to the spool.
This is why I suggest he start with the proper reels and later on get a spinner for the applications they are best for.
I can cast 3/8oz well with my small conventional reels (Shimano Curado and Calcutta 200's), 1/4oz and under not so well, forget about casting 1/16oz. For winter steelhead a spinner is foolish, for summer steelhead a conventional reel is just as foolish. BTW, I too do not really like using or repairing spinners but will when needed.
OK. dial it back..in time that is. In the beginning, there was a cane pole with a round cork, made of same. It was fun and I learned to pay attention. Then There was a Spinner 33. It was more fun and I learned some cast control and how to work a few lures. Then there was a Shakespeare direct drive and things opened up even more...I caught trout and flounder and hard heads. Then there was a 209 and I became a wretched, cut-bait chunking heathen and have lived happily ever after.
I don't expect modern-day kids to go through a direct drive phase, but I can say it taught me more about coordination and control than any other reels I used. I firmly believe the hard lessons of direct drive reels made it easier for me to move on into free spool reels.
Not one of us can truthfully say that cane pole fishing with a kid isn't fun. Start there.
I am going to offer a slightly different approach. The first trip has to be short and fish have to be caught, to keep up attention and interest. I started my kids at ages 6 and 4 with a 10 foot cane pole, the kind used for panfish or crappie. We used a 1/32 oz jig head with a piece of Berkley trout worm, like a mini ned rig, with 4 pound line. We went to a local urban lake, (I live in the desert in Phoenix) where we could catch 3 to 4 inch bluegill. No reel to worry about, they can hold it with two hands and most important, they can cast, hook and land their own fish. I do not fish, I just help them with anything they need. They get the excitement of casting, then feeling the bite, then landing the fish all without any help and eventually, they both learned how to unhook their own fish as well. The size of the fish did not matter to them, just the excitement of the bite and the success of catching several fish in an hour of so.
Both of my kids are now adults, and both will still go fishing with me, even though we have upgraded our gear since then. I attribute this to the "KISS" principle, they were able to do all themselves and that independence kept them at it until they were successful. After all this success, their love of fishing gave them the confidence and patience to learn spinning reels as they got older, which increased the size of the fish they could catch, and I ended up with two kids that like fishing and the outdoors.
In contrast, my wife had the opposite experience as a young girl. She and her sister went out with Dad and a friend in a rental aluminum boat for their first fishing trip. She was repeatedly told not to move or make any noise or they "would scare the fish away". They spent a couple of frustrating hours on the water, caught no fish and were bored out of their minds since the men did everything for them. To this day, my wife still doesn't want to fish, in any fashion, regardless of location or species. (It's ok, because she still goes out with me and works on her art projects, she draws, photographs and does needlework, so I still have a fishing buddy, just a non-fishing fishing buddy).
Interesting stuff. Both baitcasters & spinners take practice. Forefinger timing on the spinners. Thumb timing on a baitcaster. Both need rod-loading timing/practice. But first cast with a baitcaster that hasn't been preadjusted may = bird's nest. I fish in the AM darkness sometimes, and won't use a baitcaster/conventional. If I hear something splash and wanna make a quick first cast, it's godda be a spinner. Bad for a young learner to backlash on the first cast, especially if his terminal stuff sinks and then snags-up.
Best maybe to practice on grass first. Then it could be good to mess-up until a kid disciplines himself to not have'ta untangle that bird's nest, or, not to toss his spinning terminal stuff way up and off to the side.
I'd start as many have noted with the goal being catching (a) fish, of whatever size.
I think I would start at a pier with whatever below (your boat should suffice if you can drop right in on fish). No cast, just drop the bait in the water to the bottom, slowly crank it up, maybe a jig or two. That first bite, tug, or caught fish will be remembered forever. I know I remember my first bite to then a tug, to then a catch. It was a trout on a worm in a stream on a piece of driftwood pole with some line tied on. I was about 7. Pops and an older brother didn't catch anything with "gear".
For something like this, I'd probably start with a small conventional, like the tried and true Penn #9 Levelwind. ;D
Show him how the tranny works (and holding the spool with his thumb, he can get more on that later] and he doesn't need to lay the line either.
If you have to start out casting, I think a superlight spinner is called for.
Basically, parents have one shot at this. If the kid thinks it was a waste of time, boring, or pointless, you may never get another chance at it.
Either way, I hope you end up raising another fisherman. :fish
Well thank you all for the great posts the reason I'm here is for all of these great opinions even if they differ. I have a real that Alan recommended long ago it was a crossfire 4000 3iB. I remember it from a post long ago. It's a very cheap reel on a 6 ft 6 5-star rod. It's probably too big for him. I used to use it to catch snook if I wanted a thrilling fight.
Regardless, I do think it's too big for him and I do have a smaller Shakespeare rod that he could probably still use and he's practiced with in the pool.
Once again, money is not necessarily the issue here the issue for me is buying something that I like is easy to service and his adequate for what we're doing in the past most of what we've done could all be handled by a tld-25. Now I know over time reels have been upgraded... But I guess the old question is whether or not the old TLD 25 is still worth purchasing. It's definitely what I know, and at the time they were fantastic especially with Alan's tweaks.
Anyway let's keep it going I really enjoy reading the posts. For the record in the intracoastal in Florida we do get quite a bit of different fish everything from sheepshead to Lane snappers to cuda, fun to catch jacks, and yes in the inlets you definitely find big bulls. Not to mention snook, redfish, tarpon, and the host of other reef fish near to the inlets in the Clearer water.
20220817_213848.jpg
Sorry this picture thing is a little tricky on this forum it's not easy. It always wants to upload two pictures every time I try and press insert. Odd
This is funny. Forty guys and forty different opinions. I am a now retired charter captain in SWFL but specialized in family fishing for about 15 years. Took lots of kids fishing and still a very avid angler. For inshore I use spinners almost exclusively and I would never dream of giving a kid a baitcaster. The TLD's are great reels for the money but IMO they are offshore reels and I still use a TLD 20 for bottom fishing for grouper. However nearly all of my TLD's have been replaced with 2 speed Avet Raptors loaded with braid and a mono top shot. The Avet's are lighter, stronger and the two speed gear box is very useful. So for me it's spinners for inshore and for offshore pelagics(cobia and kings) and conventional reels for offshore bottom fishing(grouper and snapper).
Just my $.02 worth when adjusted for inflation may be meaningless.
im thinking tyrnos 30s ...i can get them about 300 a pop with rod used. dont really think i can get better bang for the buck than that. As for specific reels i would love to hear what might be a good choice for an 8 yr old with little experience. Tarpon1 I like the spinners....i agree its probably best for the little guy. im thinking a smaller setup would be good but I dont need super high quality. Love Avet, and if I found a deal i would buy.
Unless you're fishing every day and/or beating the crap out of your stuff, start him out w/a 3000 or 4000 mid-level spinning reel, like a Shimano (Sahara or Symetre if they even make em anymore) or a Daiwa Black Gold. I have all 3 and they've served me well for all kinds of light saltwater apps. All < $100. Ugly Stik, Shimano, Daiwa medium 6-1/2' rod and he's good to go.
Here's a combo for < $150.
https://www.cabelas.com/shop/en/shimano-sedona-fi-bass-pro-shops-xps-bionic-blade-spinning-rod-and-reel-combo
Quote from: sciaenops on August 21, 2022, 10:01:54 PMHere's a combo for < $150.
https://www.cabelas.com/shop/en/shimano-sedona-fi-bass-pro-shops-xps-bionic-blade-spinning-rod-and-reel-combo
Bingo! Usually these combos offer a lot of bang for the buck. It's like getting the rod for free. IMO hard to beat a Daiwa BG in a smaller size. They run big so be careful. Also be careful I think some of the older Shimano reels had a problem with corrosion and poor quality finish. I had an older Tekota with such a problem and I know a lot of the current marketing hype is about enhanced corrosion protection which IMO sort of acknowledges the problem.
I have nothing useful to add here, but if I could still eat popcorn i'd grab some.
;D
What you should do is NOT what I did in a similar situation. Back in the 90's I was into tournament bass fishing. Local club tournaments mostly. My 7 yo son wanted to go with me. I took him for a couple of years but I was more focused on the upcoming tournament than I was him catching fish. He lost interest, quit going fishing with me, and started playing video games instead. I doubt he's even been fishing since then.
Different tactic with the grandson (not his kid). Last year I took him (8 yo) to Lake Eufaula (the GA/AL one) and let him catch a variety of fish with spinners then worked with him on bait casting. He caught his 1st Largemouth on a baitcaster and Texas rigged worm. For birthday and Christmas he got a decent spinning outfit and a baitcasting outfit (plus some practice plugs). And he's bugging me to take him again. He even wants to go on some Canada and Mexico trips. Maybe in a few years.
GA Mike
I couldnt agree more with Wally, if you want to keep your kid as fishing partner forever you have to focus on making the day enjoyable catching a fish or without a fish, you will have your own fishing time alone o with your friends later.
check this thread and see the smiles of those kids https://alantani.com/index.php?topic=14493.0
they dont care what gear are they using they just want to have a good time and catch a fish, so use what 90% of fishermen think is the easier reel to use, a spinner reel.
If you kid like fishing and get hooked he can "graduate" later switching to a baitcaster but a spinner reel has its place or they wont be making super spinner reels of $1,000 dlls ;) , nothing wrong on using a spinner reel even when your kind gets older, the main goal is to make the day relaxing and have a good family time.
I know a bit of that 8)
https://alantani.com/index.php?topic=20665.msg223218#msg223218
An eight-year-old is going to outgrow outfits and technolgy every year or so. A spincast is the easiest thing to throw and keep from tangling. That's why everybody started with one. They're cheap so you might as well get two. One to fish with and one to play and practice with. You'll know when it's time to move up to an open-face spinner, conventional or whatever.
I always liked the theory that, you get a kid tackle that you, YOURSELF, would readily use
sure, within the "good enough for YOU" category, you look for stuff that's most affordable & easiest to use,
BUT NOT ROCK-BOTTOM -- KIDS DON'T LIKE BOBO's!!!
plus, if the hobby doesn't take w/ the kid, you're not stuck w/ junk you'd never use
::) ::) Buy one of each type of reel and rod , How else are they going to grow up to be a tackle junky
Quote from: oc1 on August 26, 2022, 06:23:03 AMquote author=oc1 link=msg=419702 date=1661494983]
......A spincast is the easiest thing to throw and keep from tangling.....
QuoteA spincast would have been the last choice I would have suggested but I think you are right. It will teach him how to use a conventional without dealing with backlashes.
This is getting to be Quite a Conundrum.
It is too bad Ann Landers is Gone :(
She would have a Definitive Solution I am sure .
But one thing is Certain .
Take the youngster to :fish
Natural instincts if present will prevail .
Before you know it, he'll be driving the boat and all you'll have to do is point. Well, you might have to change a shear pin or two, but hey!
Quote from: Wally15 on August 24, 2022, 07:55:11 AMWhat you should do is NOT what I did in a similar situation. Back in the 90's I was into tournament bass fishing. Local club tournaments mostly. My 7 yo son wanted to go with me. I took him for a couple of years but I was more focused on the upcoming tournament than I was him catching fish. He lost interest, quit going fishing with me, and started playing video games instead. I doubt he's even been fishing since
As Mike said, make the trip about the kid, not yourself. I took my middle son rockcod fishing once, I got so caught up in fishing I started to ignore the youngster. The boat skipper must have seen what was going and came down from the wheelhouse with his rod, dropped down hooked a couple fish on the drop, handed the rod to my son saying "here hold my rod for a minute" as he stepped aside shouted to my son "hey you have a fish on, reel, reel, reel". Up came a couple nice reds. The look on my sons face was pure joy. My heart sank when I realized what happened. I spent the rest of the trip tending to him. 12 years later he is still proud of the fact he caught more fish than the old man. FWIW. Bill
Quote from: Bill B on September 21, 2022, 10:07:53 PM........12 years later he is still proud of the fact he caught more fish than the old man. FWIW. Bill
this made me remember this adventure with my 6yo daughter back in 2017
https://alantani.com/index.php?topic=20665.0
she is still proud that she was the only one that caught a fish that day and I mean the ONLY one between all the rest of fishermen that were present that day on the pier including me haha and pretty sure she will remember that forever.
good for you Bill to connect with your kid on time that day.