Am I correct in that only the long bar screws come out of the bars? So the (right) ring can come off only? The bars are semi-permanently attached?
I see in the 'S' schematic there is a warning to not disassemble the left side....
EDIT: Any one new to 'S' series Newell reels, please read this entire thread, disassembly may become clearer for you.
Despite the written warning in Newell's own literature, these reels can indeed be broken down. There will likely be broken parts involved too. Use caution when twisting any components so as not to bend the fragile Stainless rings.
If they're long screws they're threaded into the inside ring, they should un-screw
Swami,
I have the long screws removed. The right ring is off. I used Hamachi's suggestion in another thread, to put the nuts back on the end of the screw and tap them out. (Thanks Hamachi, great info.)
My question is about the rear bar still being attached with the short screws to the left ring. I was going to tap them out too, but then saw the (print) warning not to disassemble on Bryan's post of the S schematic.
EDITED to clarify which ring I was describing. (I'll try to be more clear).
I've had a bunch of long screw Newell's but never seen that particular set up. Bryan knows his Newells, I'd follow his advice. So the bars are permenently attacked to the rings I guess?
Go to the stickied posts and you can see Bryan's 'S' schematic's post, second down. Then look at the schematic. there's a written warning to tear apart the right side only.
Makes no sense to me. However, both the bars are still attached by the short (2-3/4") screws. lots of corrosion on the screw tips. I'm trying my best to not damage the parts. I don't know if they have inserts pressed into the side plate or what. I tried to loosen them but then stopped. Thought I would apply brain power first.
This reel is in fantastic shape with the exception of the dreaded corroded [screws]. So I'm trying to not be a klutz, and preserve the parts. But I'm not sure of the parts layout.
EDITED to change the word bars to [screws]. And added screw length. (No wonder no one understood).
The warning about being assembled on a jig? I guess they figured frame alignment was important and hard to get it right without a jig. They should come apart though
I've had a few that were heavily corroded and broke a few heads off trying to get them apart. I bought a set of these nut drivers which are helpful Soak them with oil, I'm sure you know the drill
I've had them soaking since last night. I had the tiny nut driver. But the ends of the screws are corroded inside the left plate. I can't make out if the ends are an even smaller nut size, or pressed in inserts. I spun the bar around in place but then stopped.
I wish I had a fresh 'S' to see how they come apart (if they do). I know I can cut it all apart and Tib frame it, but I don't want Hamachi disappointed in me, lol.
I'm sure I'll see it's simple, but want to do it right the first time.
I Pm'd Bryan and asked him to join in when he's available.
what size 200 are you working on? i may have some extra parts from a 229
Those screws are either screwed in the threads of the rings or those long nuts in the side plate, just corroded in. When you lean on them they snap, just not a lot of metal left.Pretty sure I have some extra bars that are threaded graphite if it comes to that so it will look the same.
Quote from: Rancanfish on April 29, 2020, 02:53:47 PM
Go to the oldest page (currently #25) and you can see Bryan's post, second down. Then look at the schematic. there's a written warning to tear apart the right side only.
Makes no sense to me. However, both the bars are still attached by the short screws. lots of corrosion on the screw tips. I'm trying my best to not damage the parts. I don't know if they have inserts pressed into the side plate or what. I tried to loosen them but then stopped. Thought I would apply brain power first.
This reel is in fantastic shape with the exception of the dreaded corroded bars. So I'm trying to not be a klutz, and preserve the parts. But I'm not sure of the parts layout.
The purpose of the note that states do not disassemble the left side is from Newell because they put everything together in a jig to keep it square. This is how I have totally disassembled them and put them together perfectly square again.
When I bolt the inner rings and base together I leave the screws loose. Then inside a screw in all the other holes. Tighten them all down. Now remove the screws from the holes that get a side plate screw and you are good to go. Never failed me.
Dwight
I have no recollection of the warning.
The long screws needs to come out of the bars to get the rings separated from the bars. They will often get rusted, so you have to be careful to Lub and tap them out. Be sure to grease them up good when re-installing to prevent further rusting on the screw.
I believe they went with the long screws because it was believe that the reel would square up better and the reel would be stronger and they could relax the strength of the bars a little to make the whole reel lighter since the screw when the entire width of the reel.
I have completely disassembled the reel and reassembled with the long screws without any alignment problems as Swami, Newell Nut, and others had indicated previously.
I guess I'm just lousy at explaining. I should have posted pic.
-I'm in tear down mode.
-Trying to save parts, but don't know parts or dis-assembly steps. (Because parts are not broken down in schematic). The 'Warning' is part of printed material in schematic, not verbally stated by anyone.
-I discovered shorter screws from inside left ring are One piece (These are the one in base and one remaining in bars, two total). I grabbed head of one with vice grips and it came out. Head snapped off next one. New issue is trying to dremel remaining head off without damage to ring.
-If I can dremel off all remaining heads stuck in ring, I will have saved rings.
-If I can figure out a way to press (1)screws out of remaining bar, and (1) out of seat after dremeling them off ring, I will have saved them too.
-Two of the screws are destroyed or will be shortly.
Sorry for my lack of communication.
EDIT NOTE: Are screws available? Or is the Tib frame the way to go? I wanted to keep it original, for no logical reason.
You never told us the size of your reel. Is a 220, 229 or 235?
Yes! Success. I dremelled the screw heads off with very minor scuffing of the ring. This left me with a seat with a nub sticking out, and a bar with a nub.
I started thinking how to begin to push the shafts out, and came up with this. I recently refurbished a drill press that a customer gave me. Closest thing to a press I have. I dremelled a flat spot in my chuck key, then put it in the drill press. Next I laid down my flat edged punch. Then I arranged the part with the screw hanging out and slowly applied pressure. Pop. Voila! The push gave me enough to grab with the vise grips. Twisted them around while pulling and they released. The pic is after I popped it downward and the bar is just resting so I could take the pic.
This is a S229-5 I'll post up a pic in a minute of the bars and seat so you can see why I wanted to save them.
Post the length of the screws you need, I'll see if I have them
This shot pretty much says it all.... I am so happy I didn't bend or damage any thing. (Except screws).
Thanks to Vilters, Swami and Newell Nut for their generosity as usual. Vilters, I added 229 to the title.
Newell Nut, when I went to look at the link, it was gone.
Did the short screws holding the inner rings to the post have a little nut on them or did they screw into one ring that was threaded. Newell made them two ways. I will check my stash and check back back for your answer.
Dwight
https://www.ebay.com/itm/newell-reel-229-base-bars-spool-and-rod-clamp/223987541247?hash=item3426b2a4ff:g:6NUAAOSwbJheomKZ
This is what you need with a few screws to solve your problems and upgrade the reel. I have plenty of the short screws to send you if you buy this set.
yours if you want it. n/c, just give me your mailing address
PM sent, Mr. Vilters. Very generous. Ck. my for sale / trades posting to see if you need anything.
Dwight, I'm not sure what you mean, but there were four screws total that utilized nuts. (As far as I saw).
I'm pretty confident I'll be able to get this puppy functional with Vilters offer. I'm going to put some braid that I have on another reel on it. And maybe a SS sleeve. I have one of Alan's small knobs already mounted to a Newell metal arm. I'm going to fish it.
Good Luck
Newell used two types of long screws. You have 6 long screws and the two longest ones are the side plate screws that use the captive nut on the handle side. The 4 shorter ones hold the inner rings to the base and post. Those were screwed into the inner rings that were punched with a small hole and then threaded on some reels. The other method Newell used on some models was to make all the holes in the inner rings the same size and a little nut was used to hold the rings to the base and bars. The reason that I bring this up is the model that used the threaded hole will have slightly shorter screws than the model with the little nuts. So if I send you a set of long screws and your reel needed the screws to be 3/32 longer for little nuts then you have a problem. The ones in my stash are from two reels that had the threaded inner rings. If your inner rings are not threaded then my screws would be too short for you by about 3/32.
Newell built great reels but he did a few quirky things that can test you when working some models.
Dwight
Dwight,
I appreciate the help. You have been my guru since I first slipped onto the Newell slope. I'm a bit challenged when it comes to visualizing potential problems, but I'm sure I'll learn what's what upon the reassembly.
The positive I got out of this reel is learning some more about Newell. All my other Newells were cake. And though this reel sits in pieces, I found satisfaction in the process this time. I wasn't able to rush through it. And I saved some history, poorly conceived as it was by Mr. Newell.
I only ruined two screws, and that was deliberate. I'm rather pleased, I used restraint as my ham hands were wanting to just saw everything apart and install a Tiburon frame. And I didn't lose one of those tiny, tiny nuts.
Okay, your reel used the little nuts to hold the frame together. My long screw sets will not work for you.
One great thing about running into problems is you get an education from it. I have rebuilt around 200 Newells of every size and shape except Blackies. I was warned to stay away from them a long time ago. They are fragile due to no SS rings and some parts only work in a blackie so due to my friend warning me I never touched one.
If you get into Newells like me keep a spreadsheet of everything you add to one such as 3 stack, 4 stack, 5 stack and 6 stack drags, P Star, plastic star. When you have a big collection it gets confusing and you also need to note the location of each reel. Mine are not all in my mancave. Good Luck and let me know if have a problem.
My only 'hmm' of disappointment was when I found the plastic clicker system. But I'm going with it! I'm going to fish it hard.
I started a book of reel maintenance a long time ago. Sometimes I even update it, lol.
No blackies was a given for me. They just don't look right without rings.
A couple more tips for you when searching for parts. The base and bars for a 220 fit a 322, 229 base and bars fit a 332. 533 base and bars fit a 440 and 631. 540 base and bars fit at 636.
The older Newells with the 8 teeth on the sprocket of the gear sleeve use a different shape dog than the 10 tooth sprockets. The older G reels with a metal clicker have a metal sprocket on the graphite spools.
Well, out of the blue, a customer of mine stopped in the street, as I was out front painting on the boat trailer.
He sees a Daiwa conventional I was playing with sitting on the hood of my mini truck. Picks it up and says 'Can you work on a Newell'? Lol. Sure I can.
He drops a no letter 338J-5 by 1/2 an hour later. Since I had to eat lunch (and let paint dry), I sat at the patio table and tore it down.
Right away I start noticing some differences. Instead of one SS cover strip over the front graphite bar, there are stainless pins on top of both bars, front & back. And the screws were more like a standard set up. Like the 'S' I just took apart, it has the same type spool and plastic clicker assembly. This was one loud clicker surprisingly.
Found lots of rusty areas, just starting to pit the inside surfaces of the rings. The underside of the main was completely orange with rust. Cleaned all the parts and re-installed with lots of Yamaha blue. Even laid some in the grooves on top of the bars. Took out some plastic looking drags and put in a stock HT100 set I purchased for a 501 build. I also removed the bearings for cleaning and relube.
But boy did I have problems getting it back working. Drag star was binding, then everything started binding when I tightened the drag star tight. I flipped washers and looked at schematics 4 times. I finally got out my Penn parts box and made it work. Works really well now with good drag ramp rate, quick shifts in and out of gear and far better freespool.
I'm learning which series to avoid......
No letters can be hit or miss, the short screw 2 bearing ones are pretty good. Some of them have 2 dogs which is nice. Those little pin/bars are a pain but keep the line from grooving the cross bars. Does that one have a top cross bar? You can switch it to threaded inserts or keep it to stiffen the reel. Strange how the reel goes back together just like it was and won't work right, happens to me too, switch a washer or spacer and it works fine.
Well, the pins were under pressure from having a slight bend in them. I had some definite springs on my hands. That and a philips head screw in the outside ring told me that I was not the first to look inside. It was covered in that mucky dust from sitting in a garage for years. Dawn and a tooth brush.
I had called and told him it was ready before I realized everything was locking up at max drag.
I can't believe how perfect it is now. It looks new and works like it.
And he brought me a 12 pack of Modelo.
Keep tinkering, you ain't seen nothing yet. Once you have seen and worked on all styles you will be way ahead of the pack. Fun stuff. Long screws are okay if you get them early and just lubricate them. They work great. Newell did not lubricate them when they built them. My origingal Newell 540 from 1992 was fished and washed really good each trip for 20 years ad came apart easily and had long bolts. The secret to all reels is plenty of fresh water after each trip. Never let one sit overnight with salt on it.
Dwight
Well, like a dummy I just bought a G220F and a no letter 322. I'm a slow learner.
You could buy a perfect reel from me. I have a pile of them.
Dwight
Learned something new today
Quote from: Newell Nut on April 29, 2020, 05:28:24 PM
Quote from: Rancanfish on April 29, 2020, 02:53:47 PM
Go to the oldest page (currently #25) and you can see Bryan's post, second down. Then look at the schematic. there's a written warning to tear apart the right side only.
Makes no sense to me. However, both the bars are still attached by the short screws. lots of corrosion on the screw tips. I'm trying my best to not damage the parts. I don't know if they have inserts pressed into the side plate or what. I tried to loosen them but then stopped. Thought I would apply brain power first.
This reel is in fantastic shape with the exception of the dreaded corroded bars. So I'm trying to not be a klutz, and preserve the parts. But I'm not sure of the parts layout.
The purpose of the note that states do not disassemble the left side is from Newell because they put everything together in a jig to keep it square. This is how I have totally disassembled them and put them together perfectly square again.
When I bolt the inner rings and base together I leave the screws loose. Then inside a screw in all the other holes. Tighten them all down. Now remove the screws from the holes that get a side plate screw and you are good to go. Never failed me.
Dwight
It's all back together. The only improvement I made was a new Cortez SS bearing cup. I bought a new sleeve but left it out. It will be a back up in case I screw up one of my 200 series reels while fishing. I even stayed with the graphite clicker since it was like new.
I ran into the frame alignment hassles but heard Dwight in my head telling me how to get it done. It took a bit of tweaking but I have good freespool.
I also tried a P type handle with one of Alan's knobs on it but it felt way out of balance. Will make a better fit on my 322 that's coming.
I took all the screws, chucked them in my battery driver and spun them first with a brass brush, then one of my wife's fingernail files. Then greased them and spun them in the seat and bars. I used more grease during assembly than I ever had used before. Fully protected for the next generation.
Major thanks to Steve (Vilters) for helping me keep this original reel original with his gifted parts. It's an 'S', but it's bad 'S'. ;D
I just read a posting from Steve "Hippo" Lau that he loaded up his 220 with 12# mono and used to cast these micro jigs. I think he called them scampi coasters. Sounds like fun. I may use 15# mono instead and a little heavier weighted lure/plug. Already have a 10' blank that just needs to be built..
Glad you got it back together and you learned a lot along the way. A couple things to look for with S or C and sometimes a no letter for long bolt giveaways. Left side has slick head screws and handle side has slotted. There are 3 different styles of Ss which is tough so you have to look closely. There is also phillips heads on the left side and handle side slotted heads. Sometimes you will see phillips on both sides and this is safe short screws. Slotted on both sides is short screws. Just little things to know when shopping.
Dwight
Were they ever made with long screws and 2 big bearing caps or single small bearing cap and short screws?
Quote from: Bryan Young on May 08, 2020, 09:59:50 PM
I just read a posting from Steve "Hippo" Lau that he loaded up his 220 with 12# mono and used to cast these micro jigs. I think he called them scampi coasters. Sounds like fun. I may use 15# mono instead and a little heavier weighted lure/plug. Already have a 10' blank that just needs to be built..
Where was this discussion Bry?
Quote from: Rancanfish on May 09, 2020, 01:50:02 AM
Quote from: Bryan Young on May 08, 2020, 09:59:50 PM
I just read a posting from Steve "Hippo" Lau that he loaded up his 220 with 12# mono and used to cast these micro jigs. I think he called them scampi coasters. Sounds like fun. I may use 15# mono instead and a little heavier weighted lure/plug. Already have a 10' blank that just needs to be built..
Where was this discussion Bry?
It was started on FaceBook under the jig only group.
Quote from: Swami805 on May 09, 2020, 01:16:52 AM
Were they ever made with long screws and 2 big bearing caps or single small bearing cap and short screws?
I do have in my possession a S 631 3 with 2 bearing cups and it has the long bolts. There are S reels with short screws and single bearing cap in plastic and single bearing cap in SS and the same style S reels would have long screws. When buying one on the bay always look at both side plates. If you can't see a pic of the left side plate then pass on the reel unless you plan to use a Tiburon frame.
A lot of the 322 reels have long screws and a lot of 200s have them as well.
If they had just lubed them on assembly there would not have been a big issue with them.
Dwight
Quote from: Swami805 on May 09, 2020, 01:16:52 AM
Were they ever made with long screws and 2 big bearing caps or single small bearing cap and short screws?
I have a c533-5.5 with a small bearing cap and short screws. The screws are funny though, they have a centering tip on them. Threadless, and smaller diameter about 1/8" flat tip. Philip heads all the way around.
I have seen a lot of Cs like that. You can't go by a letter prefix when buying. They vary a lot on the screw arrangement. Safest thing is to look at the pics really close.
Dwight
Hamachi, I love those screws. It allows me to insert all of the screws at once and screw the reel together than one at a time.