This is probably a mechanics error (me).... But when fishing under heavy loads (big bat rays) the reel will sometimes slip out of gear.... Usually just cranking the reel will correct it self.... The reel is in excellent shape, but I took it apart cleaned, lubed and changed drag washers... I tried to follow the schematic, but sometimes I can be an idiot... So I may have screwed something up, that is causing the problem.... Anyone have an idea where I should look? Thanks for any help you can provide...
Butch
Flip the dog over, I've had that happen before.
The same thing can happen if your reel had an 8 tooth gear sleeve and you upgraded to a 10 tooth sleeve and left the old dog in place. The dogs are different for the two gear sleeves. The 10 tooth sleeve will have a pointed tip dog. The 8 tooth one has slope on the end.
Thanks guys... It looks like I or my predecessor put the dog in upside down... Told ya I cold be an idiot ::) .... Simple fix thanks to you guys... By the way, I locked the drag down and checked the max drag pressure.... Maybe 11-12#.... What should it be?.... Again the idiot could have all the washers on this in the wrong order...
Butch
That is good drag for a 300 but you can get over 20 with Bryan's ultimate upgrade 5 stack drag with Cals drag grease and make sure the washers are in the correct order.
Dwight
Quote from: Newell Nut on July 14, 2020, 10:37:41 AM
That is good drag for a 300 but you can get over 20 with Bryan's ultimate upgrade 5 stack drag with Cals drag grease and make sure the washers are in the correct order.
Dwight
Thank you Dwight... Are the schematics and washer order the same for all iterations of the 300 and 400 series (Blackie, P, C, G No-letter, etc)? I do use Cals, and have upgraded to Carbontex..
Butch
Quote from: Swami805 on July 13, 2020, 09:03:54 PM
Flip the dog over, I've had that happen before.
The Swami has spoken...
Quote from: Butch on July 14, 2020, 03:34:11 PM
Quote from: Newell Nut on July 14, 2020, 10:37:41 AM
That is good drag for a 300 but you can get over 20 with Bryan's ultimate upgrade 5 stack drag with Cals drag grease and make sure the washers are in the correct order.
Dwight
Thank you Dwight... Are the schematics and washer order the same for all iterations of the 300 and 400 series (Blackie, P, C, G No-letter, etc)? I do use Cals, and have upgraded to Carbontex..
Butch
Stacking is the same for all of them. CF, keyed, CF eared, CF keyed, CF eared until you get done and the top one will be a SS keyed.
Dwight
Good to see you got the popping out of gear sorted. As to low drag pressure, it could be a number of different things. First thing to look at is the star hitting the collar on the side plate. Take a careful look how far it screws down. If it's touching any part of the side plate it needs to be shimmed. The easiest way to do this is to add a drag washer but may be too thick. More later.
Everything looks ok, except there is no bellville washer..... I tried one out of my P454f, but in the 344 ,it just bound every thing up... I'm wondering if the drag washers I installed might be thicker, and with the bellville every thing was too tight... The drag washers were listed as for the Newell 200,300,400 and Penn 500.. I bought some bellvills from McMaster-Carr per this forum years ago...
Butch
I assume then you said you changed drags you went with carbon fiber drags? If you went with the same stock drag washers either newer or what ever yeah you won't see much improvement. The 200's, 300's and 400's have the same gear size and drags. The 400's were meant to fish 40 lb test line so the top end of around 13 lbs of drag might be right with stock drags buttoned down. I know I swapped out the drags in my 200's with the Carbontex set and I get I get over 13 lbs of drag but I never pushed them to their limits as I don't fish over 20 lb test on the 200's I have.
Sorry I just saw you do use Carbontex.
I just tested my 2, 220's one is a G220f with 15 lb test on it and I get right 14 lbs of drag before the line starts snapping. On my other C220f with 20 lb test I'm getting around 21 lbs of drag. The Mono I use breaks close to its rating strength. Its not IGFA rated line but close to it and the knots I used were crappy 2 overhand knots and nothing I would use while fishing, and yes the line broke at the knots.
I'm sure if I tied better knots I'd get better results but this was just a quick test. I run long topshots on these reels I'm not going to strip it off to get to the braid backing for a true drag test. But, I must say the C220 was at stupid tight and the G220 had room left to be tightened more.
Oh and the scale used was a Chatillon 50lb spring that I calibrated with a known 25lb weight before the test.
I think,that one of these days, after this mess with the covid is over, I'm gonna get with somebody that has more experience with these things, go thru it and the 454... Make sure everything is in order and good condition... Maybe even do a few upgrades ;)....
Butch
Use penn ht-100 Carbon fiber washers #006-309 same as jigmaster. You have to figure out if the spring washer is hitting the side plate or it's pushing the top hat spacer into the side plate. A light coat of grease on the inside of the side plate will help indicate where it's rubbing. Get a graphite spacer so it'll be easy to cut down to the proper height. Some 3-18 washers should round out your kit. Besides obvious mistakes, this is one of the most common problems associated with lack of drag pressure. There are other mistakes I see and these will be covered in the future.
Dwight I replaced three gear sleeves with Tom's and didn't change dogs. fished one of the reels pretty hard and had no issue. should I be replacing dogs and if so who makes them?
Thank you, Brendan.
shouldn't need to change dogs as long as they are the right type. newell dogs are stainless, and pretty wear resistant.
If you replace an 8 tooth with a newer ten tooth you have an issue the the dog not matching. Replacing an old bronze 10 tooth with a SS one is no issue. Tom also made some new SS dogs at one time.
Dwight
I love this stuff.... Keep it up guys...
Butch
Looks like I need to open them up and take a peak.
Thanks, Brendan.