Hello
I primarily fish with vintage (older reels)...since braided and fluorocarbon lines became the new go to lines it's somewhat difficult to make decisions on which line to use on my reels...braid for baitcaster reels and spinning reels...or fluorocarbon for one and braid the other since I top off my braided line with fluorocarbon or mono the braid is just backing right? But how does the line perform, casting distance ect
Are vintage reels, I'm talking mostly spinning reels, designed for mono...I know I can put whatever line suits where and what I fish for BUT ARE THE VINTAGE SPOOLS designed for mono...and therefore perform better with either mono or fluorocarbon
Thanks Juan
you've gotta be careful with the old three-piece spools and plastic spools. when spooling mono, under any amount of pressure at all, these spools can split apart, pop or crack. this is the one time where it might be better to use dacron to fill the spool half way, then put mono on top. just make sure that there is a light coat of grease on the spool first. corrosion can be a real problem, otherwise.
A lot of questions in that post :)
Fluoro is just another flavor of mono, and won't behave much differently than nylon on a reel. Fluoro tends to be stiffer, but there are limper blends made for casting.
Braid being thinner for the same strength, limper, and with less stretch , will cast better and fish better in many situations. But it is a bit more of a headache than mono, mostly because you are working with much thinner line than before.
You can go all braid, all mono, or braid with a mono leader/ top shot - which can be anything from a short bite leader to enough mono that you never cast the braid and just use it as backing. I depends on what you are going for.
Casting braid is not as much of a concern on older baitcaster as it is with spinners. Being able to use thinner and limper line can lead to worse backlashes and loose coils gettin past the gap at the spool lip. But it is usually manageable if you are willing.
The two main issues with older spinners and modern braid are line digging into the spool under load and tangles from extra coils being pulled off the spool during the cast. Maybe toss in some bail wear on specific models if you are getting some grit in your braid. Contrary to popular opinion, braid fibers have an extremely low coefficient of friction, so they will not cause more wear on metal from rubbing than nylon, unless the braid gets dirty. Also braid stretches less readily than nylon, so blowing out plastic spools from winding under load is less of a problem with braid.
If you use very fine braid, it might be more likely to get tangled in a bail roller mechanism on an older bail design.
Newer spinners use more aggressive oscillation to "cross hatch" the line on the spool, and longer spools. This helps with both of the performance issues mentioned above. Don't know if spool lip design changed, but I wouldn't be surprised.
Lots of folk fish braid with pre-braid reels. It depends on the reel, the line size chosen, and whether you need to make aggressive casts. On a vintage-type old freshwater spinner with a very narrow spool doing lake and stream casting, you will have less to worry about. It gets trickier for stuff like distance casting big lures or surf fishing with smaller lines.
If you have a particular model and line size in mind, you might be able to find some firsthand reports, either here or on the web.
-J
" tangles from extra coils being pulled off the spool during the cast"
This is one of the issues that generated this question...I find this happening after a few casts then I have to pull line out rewind and continue fishing...it is a small ultralight with thin spool and rather limp braid...I tried a heavier braid filled to within 1/8 inch of the lip same issue...otherwise it casts great with the 10lb small diameter soft line...I have a preference for soft lines...
As for the operation and design of the spool, comparing my vintage to new reels...there seems to be a difference...can't put my finger on what it is
Thanks Alan and jurelometer
Keep the comments coming they are very helpful
Quote from: bluesnart on December 15, 2023, 11:05:56 PM" tangles from extra coils being pulled off the spool during the cast"
This is one of the issues that generated this question...I find this happening after a few casts then I have to pull line out rewind and continue fishing...it is a small ultralight with thin spool and rather limp braid...I tried a heavier braid filled to within 1/8 inch of the lip same issue...otherwise it casts great with the 10lb small diameter soft line...I have a preference for soft lines...
As for the operation and design of the spool, comparing my vintage to new reels...there seems to be a difference...can't put my finger on what it is
Thanks Alan and jurelometer
Keep the comments coming they are very helpful
You'll get wind knots with braid even with new reels manufactured for braid. I suppose issue one is spooling the reel all the way to the lip of the spool. I've also found that when the line is wet it will be less prone to wind knots. So maybe a little fresh water on the line before your first cast will help with the wind knots.
I've kept my braid to about 1/8" of an inch from the lip...up to about a 1/4"...it's about a 1/4" on this particular reel just now...wetting the line is something I'll try...sounds like a good idea...line twist may also be an issue...I don't have access to a boat so removing line twist is something I have to figure out...I've read unspooling the reel to about 100 yards pulling gently on the line and rewinding may get rid of line twist
Thanks Juan
i've had guys bring reels in and the line is badly twisted. it's a two man job, but you can chuck the line in a cordless drill, walk out 100-200 feet and untwist it. it's important to do, because badly twisted braid can break easily if it twists enough to coil back on itself.
Quote from: bluesnart link=msg=447096As for the operation and design of the spool, comparing my vintage to new reels...there seems to be a difference...can't put my finger on what it is
Quote from: jurelometer on December 15, 2023, 10:44:00 PMNewer spinners use more aggressive oscillation to "cross hatch" the line on the spool, and longer spools. This helps with both of the performance issues mentioned above. Don't know if spool lip design changed, but I wouldn't be surprised.
The coils are not as perpendicular to the direction of cast, making it less likely for one coil to pull another off the spool, which is what causes the tangle.
Dumb question from me...Alan what direction clockwise or counterclockwise...
Jurelometer,I'd like to stay with braid but I quest some not all of these older spinners should be used with mono or fluorocarbon...
the line can go either way. i always hook a bait the same way. on the retrieve, it helicopters back the same way. jigs vary, either way. never paid much attention.
something funny. i will often let the braid back behind the boat on the run back, just to straighten out the braid when it's twisted up. i always chop of the topshot and run back braid only, without the knot. the run back is at 12-20 knots. if you leave a topshot on the braid when you let the line back, the topshot knot can actually make the line spin!!!!!
Ya I have gone to a bridge and let all the line out on a bobber to get the twist out,,,,, ;)
Thanks Benni3
I live in LA so there are some bridges that might work using your method...another option thanks
My son has a small boat we use to fish San Diego Bay with...this might be a good reason to get us out there again...untwist our lines and catch spotted bay bass all day!
Had a mitchel 320? I think. Is that the small one? Anyway, every time I went to use it the spool was split. Crushed by the mono.
Yes I have been placing the line on throu the winter, when it is colder, the line has very little srink left in it then, , it should expand throu the warmer weather, now leave some fish in the water for us please, cheers Don.
Quote from: bluesnart on December 17, 2023, 07:36:59 PMDumb question from me...Alan what direction clockwise or counterclockwise...
Jurelometer,I'd like to stay with braid but I quest some not all of these older spinners should be used with mono or fluorocarbon...
The direction of the coil tells you the direction of the twist. If in doubt, twist it clockwise between your fingers and see if it gets better or worse.
Twisting is how the spinner retrieves the line. It is price you have to pay to fish the eggbeater. I have actually found less headaches with braid vs. mono on a spinner if I am not hucking it hard, but I don't fish spinners very much. Just don't overfill the spool.
Dragging behind the boat with no terminal rigging is best when line twists get real bad as Alan has noted, but a short leader and a good swivel can often be enough to keep bad twisting at bay.
Personally, I think that a spinner is a specialized niche tool that people tend to use in more situations than they need to because spnners are more common and familiar, and cause less backlash anxiety. Meh...
-J
All your information is greatly appreciated...and well taken...about 80%of my fishing is for bass in urban lakes...some surf and bay fishing
I use spinning reels in order to fish as light a presentation as possible, open water, very little rough cover...and baitcasters when I feel I need more torque, as an example when frog fishing in the thickess cover or in among the tullies..although I can substitute one for the other depending on the environment I am fishing and the fish I am after...(I have used plenty of light tackle presentations with baitcasters) and whichever I feel like fishing with that day..I'm comfortable using either
I use braided line with both spinning and baitcaster reels 90% of the time with a top knot and will continue with that but with the info given add a swivel...I don't do much hard lure fishing usually all varieties of plastics but a few hard baits
I have learned quite a bit today and will incorporate many of the ideas and conclusions given...although I don't think I'll be dangling my line over many bridges here in LA...LOL
I'll keep you guys guys posted
One of the things I enjoy about this site is the ability to go back over comments and information after some time has past
Thank you all again...Juan
Mitchell 320 is a medium size reel. Does have a plastic spool. It would not be the only plastic spool spinning reel to have cracking issues if straight mono is wound all the way on to the spool.
Frank
I fish PE braid exclusively on all my reels. I used to be on team "mono only" but then I started fishing with braid and I love and prefer it now.
When I fish old spinners I decide what diameter braid best matches the type of fishing i want to do, and compare that to the known drag capabilities of tue target reel.
Example: my penn 750SS. I use it for sharks and other big stuff in the surf. I was initially advised to use 65# braid on it because it would spool better. At that point i didn't have the opinion-driving experience or knowledge I have now so I tried it. I hated the crappy casting. I settled on 40# and it's much better. Casts farther, I don't think it spools any worse, and the 40# braid is still plenty strong enough that if I feel the need to crank down Bryan's 5-stack for a tough opponent, i can.
To sum it up, choose the line by the type of fishing you wanna do with that reel. If it just won't work no matter how you shim it, you may have the wrong reel for the given use.
I only use 6# Clear Trilene XL mono w/ a dacron backing on my ULs & without a swivel so that it doesn't affect lure action. All I ever have to do if I get a little line twist is attach the hook to a tree and walk out 50 or 60 yds of line and stretch it to get rid of the loops or twist. You sure can't do that with braid.
I can't stand braid, BTW.
Quote from: jurelometer on December 18, 2023, 06:54:51 AMPersonally, I think that a spinner is a specialized niche tool that people tend to use in more situations than they need to because spnners are more common and familiar, and cause less backlash anxiety. Meh...
If you only had enough money for one quality reel, it would make sense to get a spinning reel. Most people can learn to cast a spinner well fairly easily. You can also very easily change spools and fish different line classes from the same reel. So within a given range of drag and line strength you have one reel that can "do it all." At least where I came up (New Jersey saltwater fishing), a Penn 450ss-550ss could do anything from casting in the surf, casting from a small boat, vertical style jigging, to inshore bottom fishing for the usual suspects (fluke/sea bass/weaksfish etc.).
That said, generally speaking now if I can use a conventional reel for an application I will choose it every time. I just think that spinners became popular because of their versatility and thereby their economy where they tend to be jacks of all trades and admittedly masters of one.
A spinner is like an automatic transmission, a conventional is like a manual. I learned on a spinner first, and I learned how to drive on an auto transmission. I later learned manual and conventional casting on my own. If you started with a manual and a conventional this analogy might not make as much sense.
You can pick up a spinner that had just been used by someone else and throw a cast into the wind at night without needing to wonder about the spool tension or mag (if applicable) settings, or whether you can even see it hit the water. And it'll be fine.
But for those who have mastered the conventional, there's way more control over almost every aspect of the cast and the fight, and some prefer precision. But similar to a manual transmission, there's a learning curve.
A good friend of mine who only drives manuals and doesnt wanna try a baitcaster (but fishes spinners) really hates that analogy. But frankly that makes me feel like it's a good analogy.
I had a 5 gal bucket of lashers that I threw over the side of the boat in N Central MN back in the mid 70s. Probably were some collectibles in that bucket, but oh well. I also gave an early ABU 5000 to a friend for free. I decided back then I wanted to spend my relaxation time fishing and not untangling. Haven't used a lasher for over 50 years and I too old & stubborn to start now. ;D
As I said I use both types of reels depending on the fish environment there in ect.
I fished Trilene LT for many years and like it very much...my go to mono if I choose to use it...I'm not a fan of fluorocarbon, to stiff, but it has its uses...I began using braid and like it for it's sensitivity and strength...
I'll work through the twist issues and enjoy every day on the water
An update on tangles and wind knots using braid on my vintage spinner
While trying to solve this issue I noticed the line was not lying flat on the spool...line did not fill bottom portion of spool...after more research I added a shim under the spool now line is even through out...I believe this may have caused line to come off the spool unevenly causing tangles and line around spool when cast...also line not up to 1/8" of lip...I'm adding line and testing it out soon...but so far while lawn fishing no problems
Juan
Ok...to close this out...after several attempts to match line to reel...what seems to have cleared the problem was loading the line correctly...viewing from behind the reel matched the rotation of the spool...in this case counter clockwise...with how the line came off the line spool...brought the line down the edge of the lip to approx 1/8 inch...and lastly loaded with mono...Berkeley XL...so far so good
Thanks for all the input Juan