Reel Repair by Alan Tani

I just finished complete service on 6 heavily used Penn Internationals this past week and thought I'd share a few observations....

Reels serviced:

-'04&'05 130STWs off a popular deep sea charter vessel that fishes them over 200-250 days/year
-'92&'97 80STWs
-1969 &'85 50 from a hard fishing (100-150 days/year) sportsfishing vessel
-Total time invested= 35-50hrs work
-Total parts cost (retail)= $760

-The '92 80had a drag lever that was locked up, upon disassembly it was found that the entire cam assembly was heavily corroded, and it had a modified cam with a steep ramp up, and flat spot 'on top' (I assume to provide quick transition to max drag from strike.  The thick Bellevilles were (()) and the reel had apparently been put away 'wet', and stored under max compression resulting in complete and total flattening of the spring washers.  All 6 bearings were shot, and the high speed main gear was very heavily worn.  The upgraded drag discs were still in excellent condition.  I replaced the high speed drive gear, cam (stock) and pins, and changed Bellevilles to 2-thick, 2-thin ()() stock config.  I shimmed the drive gear, pinion, and left drag plate too.
O..new clicker spring, pawl, and plate too.

-The '97 130 just needed a pinion, right spool, and 2-drive shaft bearings, and went back to stick ()() Belleville config(removed shims to maintain spacing. New clicker pawl, spring, plate.  High speed main gear was worn and a little rough but I deburred it and left it for another year's use.

-1969 50 needed all new bearings, new duradrag plate (no other parts needed for upgraded drag), since the customer was fishing 130lb holocore w/80lb topshot, I went with 2 thick and 3 thin Bellevilles ((((), and shimmed appropriately.  The clicker gave me a little trouble since it was the first gen design, it could not be upgraded w/o changing the Sideplate(no longer avail either),(or drilling it out), and clicker pawl was unique, so ended up drilling out the holes in the clicker ratchet/plate, shimming it off of the spool 0.3mm, and changing the screws (0.5mm longer).  No spool shimming was needed (after I got the correct Belleville combo, and the gear roughness was acceptable...needed a new set of stand screws and clamp too.

-1985 50 just needed pinion, and left plate bearings, a new clicker pawl, spring, and ratchet, and a through cleaning.  I modified Bellevilles to match his other 50 for use with braid.  

Havn't quite finished the 130s yet, I'll update when finished.

Just finished up w/ the 130s

-'04 130ST needed new pinion, both spool, and both drive shaft bearings, and I replaced the 2 stock thick Bellevilles (they lost some of their springiness).  The drag was surgy at high settings before service.  The outter drag disc had a small scratch, and a hardly noticable corresponding one on the drag plate.  I worked the weave on the CF drags up w/a clean rag, and polished up the drag plate w/some compound, and converted to wet w/Cal's.  I packed all bearings using Alan's bearing packer w/Penn grease, and lightly lubed everything in the drag chamber w/Cal's (also lubed the preset friction washer w/Cal's)..Penn's everywhere else, and corrosion X on indicator buttons, and handle.  I was able to get the stand off and greased this and screws as well.  All told pretty str8 forward service... 4hrs, $116 in parts, no shimming needed, good performance after servicing (though freespool suffered a bit from the grease)

-'05 130ST... This one was in pretty rough shape and required a new click pawl, spring, ratchet, 5 new bearings, new thick bellevilles, drag reconditioning, and new drag heat shield screws.  The bridge gave me some trouble removing and had to be pressed out, and the heat shield screws had to be destroyed to remove (though no retap was necessary).  The drag was converted to wet.  All bearing shields were left in place and packed w/Penn's grease.  The one bearing that survived was a china made bearing w/plastic race...it was put in the left plate position.  5.5hrs time, $162 in parts.  Performance was good after servicing (shimmed under preset adjust, and 1 on left plate bearing.  High speed gear was showing signs of wear but appeared normal and although not smooth, it wasn't rough or grinding either. 

Hope this was useful to someone?

John

Good Work John! You are quite the repairman. I'll be honest with you. I don't have any Internationals mainly because I am intimidated by the complicated design. :-\

Daron,
Honestly the older international IIs aren't that bad.  As far as lever drag reels go, in my opinion, they are actually one of the simplest, most rugged designs (with the exception of the Tritons ruggedness), and they typically have a little 'looser' tolerances, and fewer parts.  I think this makes them a bit easier to service, and true workhorses since they will still work even when parts are worn/corroded/or not quite perfect.  They are not watertight, and are prone to corrosion issues (ESP where dissimilar metals are in contact with one another), and they are a bit heavy, loud, and lack the smoothness and precision if some of the more modern design.  Many of my charter fishing friends prefer the international IIs (and Tritons) to the modern reels because maintainance and repair time and costs can grow quickly when the reels are fished hard (and often abused), often times by inexperienced anglers.  Sometimes simpler can be better.  The only thing that can take some tinkering with is learning how to adjust the Bellevilles, and shim appropriately...but I think with the tutorials in this forum, anyone with a bit of mechanical know how and a little patience, should be able to service any of the Penn International IIs.  Your larger senators adhere to the 'more is less' principle too, and they are relatively  lightweight, have great line capacity, and are really cost effective as well.  As I said, I wouldn't be afraid to crack open an international if one happens past.

Yes they are very simple and easy to work on IF they are in good shape. I usually spend 1 1/2 to 2 hours on each one.

The ones you have are a different story..!!!

I should have clarified on the time allowance thing...
..2 of these reels were relatively easy to service and took less then 2.5hrs each.  2 took way longer, and the other 2 appear to fall somewhere in between.  I usually average 5hrs/reel for complete disassembly, cleaning, deburring, pick up parts, grease, reassemble, and tune/adjust. 

What about the VSX. if you were going to fish one of these gold monsters and do the maintenance yourself. Would you stick with an older International or the newer ones. In particular the 130 VSX.

I am a bit ashamed to admit that I have yet to service one personally.  From what I can glean these reels have much tighter tolerances overall, and are smoother outta the box, they seem a bit more tedious to service and the 2 speed mechanism is definately tough...see the tutorial on it.  The other service guys I've talked to here on Oahu complain about them alot (as repairmen in general are apt to do).  They see alot of frozen cams, blown bearings and drive gear assemblies that need shimming.  My overall impression is that they are smooth, capable of higher performance (then older internationals), but need a more rigorous service scheduel, and performance will suffer quicker due to wear/corrosion issues.  As I said, I don't have any personal experience but many of the guys here that fish there reels hard are moving away from them, and even the Tiagra's in favor of their old tried and true international IIs.

Good to know John. Thank You. ;D

Very cool man. I heard those 130's can be a little tedious to work on, a lot of guys will not touch them, but if you can get it apart, then you can get it back together (with your experience).

I am planning on getting an International 12LT II in the future and like seeing posts like this. All I would see as a kid growing up, were gold Penn's in the videos and magazines of LR tuna fisherman...One real I have always wanted.

Thanks for sharing.  I really like those reels, gets me excited just to see them totally dismantled like that.  You definitely did a great job!

Re time:  I don't think that I've ever done an International without taking at least three hours but have to admit that I don't have to do it for a living.  I just enjoy working on them and trying to make them as good as new.  I've never worked on a 130, just up to the 80.  I especially enjoy tackling one that doesn't work at all.

Great post!

josa1

Don't stress working on the more complex lever drags or even the two speed mechanism. You'll find that it breaks down into separate areas and that once you understand how they tick they are no more complicated than anything else. Each mechanism is very simple mechanically. You just have more mechanisms  :D.

It becomes like a case of working on 2 or 3 Senators at a time versus one lever drag. You might have more bits on the international individually, but really, once you have grasped how things work and what they have to do then things simply "make sense" how they go together and you gain confidence.

;D

Tightlines...what are you using for shims?  and where are you shimming?

I forgot to mention a couple of relatively common pitfalls I've ran into when servicing older International IIs, especially reels that have not been properly maintained/regularily serviced.  

In my experience , You need to be a bit careful in assessing the overall condition of the reel when you first crack it in order to determine if a restoration/service is financially feasable (I got burned once), as parts cost on these reels can quickly escalate.  Typically if more then 1 (certainly more then 2) of the expensive type parts (bridge, frame, side plates, pinion, main gear(s), complete handle assembly, ect) need replacing, your other more typical parts costs might well drive the cost of restoration beyond what could be considered 'reasonable' (50-70% of reel value (actual or resale?) or maybe even 100%, if sentimental value exists?  I would recommend paying close attention to these parts in particular to determine if their condition is likely to negatively impact performance or is unacceptable.  Also, is the customer concerned with aesthitics/appearance as well or just function?  Always need to do a little cost/benefits analysis here.  You don't want to get in too deep and end up in a lose-lose situation.

Some commonplace problem areas on these reels include:

1)Heavily corroded stand and/or rod clamp screws...if its bad leave em be!  Removing badly corroded reel clamp screws may mean there isn't enough material left to rethread or even for a helicoil insert to work...this would mean a whole new frame.  If its minor by all means pull clean/treat corrosion, and grease to prevent future problems.  If its intermediate, judgement is needed may require retaping w/a larger dia bolt (and drilling out hardened reel foot to accommodate, or simple retap, or retap and use of a bonding agent.  Just remember the frame really isn't that thick here, and the bolts have few threads.

2)Frozen screws (side plate, bridge, quadrant, clicker ratchet, drag plate, cooling shield).  Use methods outlined elsewhere in the forum to remove frozen screw(s)...including soaking in ATF:acetone, tightening then losening w/correct sized driver, heat/cold, if need be you can grind off or drill out the screw head to remove part (I.e. sideplate), and get more screw to work with, or gain access to the inside of screw hope to try pushing out with another screw if there are enough threads.  As a last case resort, drill it out very carefully with a clamped part and drill press (be aware you are drilling out a very hard metal from a soft one), retap, can use bonding agent if really necessary or helicoil insert, or go to larger diameter, and or fewer threads or greater pitch screw.  Again a judgement call is often needed.  Destroying a frame to remove the left side plate is usually not warranted if you can gain access to the internals from the right side.  

3)Heavily corroded/stuck/stuborn bridge...if it functions fine and removing it will cause more harm then good..leave it be.  If you need to remove it (it needs replacing, or you need access to inner drive shaft bearing first try soaking it in ATF/Acetone, heating under tap water or carefully with a torch can help.  Check the condition of the sideplate where it marries to the cam housing (ESP the lip), if it is not heavily corroded, you can remove the retaining screw, and use a hardened socket that is the same diameter as the housing to push this through the bridge (from the outside in) ideally with a press, careful tapping with a rubber mallet/hammer.  Do not remove the cam housing if damage to the sideplate might result since this needs to be a good tight fit that is perfectly square upon reassembly, and again side plates and bridges are pricy.  Make sure all bridge screws have been removed (if you need to drill em out go from inside the side plate out).  Take your time here cause mistakes are costly.

4)Heavily corroded/frozen cam assembly...soak, heat/cool, tap to remove, debur clean up/buff, replace heavily marred corroded parts (if the cam following pins are heavily notched/worn just replace em, be careful not to damage the cam housing since it comes integral with the side plate=expensive)...these parts are extremely strong and resillant so they can usually be salvaged, can housings can usually be cleaned up polished to work like new..beware if notches in the channels or heavy marring though, and avoid any temptation to grind the inside since even if done perfectly you will create unacceptable slop.  

5)for models that have a counterclockwise threaded cooling shield it is often stuck...use ATF/Acetone, the proper wrench, heating (tap water, or careful torch to spool w/o line), and persuasive taping to break it free.  An oil filter wrench and rubber inner tube on the shield, and with the spool in a rubber lined wood vice can provide alot of torque.  As an absolute last resort it can be cut/ground off resulting in replacement of it any any other damages parts

Note:  Always make sure parts are available before you start working on something that may get damaged or need replacing.  In the case of gen I Internationals limited parts availablity make it helpful to have 'parts reels' available...sometimes you can 'take 2 bad and make a good'.  


6)Spool bearings have tighter tollerances in their pockets and may get stuck....ATF/acetone soak, heat spool w/warm water, rap the spool squarely on a flat surface, use a bearing puller if available, once one is out the pinion gear works nicely to push the other one out (make sure it's square, and realize pressure on the inner race only could damage the bearing.  You can also cut/grind the bearing out if absolutely necessary (see other tutorials).

7)Clicker assemblies are often frozen to the sideplates..You can usually solve your clicker problem by servicing the assembly and or ratchet itself rather then risk damage to or replacing the sideplate.  Grease the inside of pawl liberally when servicing since this is a common area of water/salt intrusion.  If it needs a new pawl/spring you and the click button is hopelessly frozen, you can drill it out, and replace the guts.  Make sure replacement parts are avail for the given dia clicker sleeve first though.  The older gen 1 and 2 clicker assemblies can be problematic (gen 2 can usually be upgraded) shimming or replacing the spring with a slightly larger one can help here too.

Also, before final reassembly on these I find it useful to:
-Check the spool and spool shaft for trueness, make sure they aren't warped or bent.  
-Test cam preset adjust, lever position, and function, and test fit pinion bearing to spool shaft.  
-I also like to put the pinion in place by itself and test gears, and shifting mech, by reeling in high then low speed...check for grinding, bumping, slipping or hesitation and note when it occurs (I.e. once per low drive gear rotation, only in low gear ect...
-Also check for lateral and torsional movement in drive shaft/gear assembly (can replace shaft, bushing, bearings, or shim as needed to correct.  
-Check gear alignment at min/max preset and lever travel.  
-Also, I have learned that in addition to noting the belleville thicknesses and configuration, it is often helpful to measure the initisl thickness of the belleville stack (along with shims/thrust washers if present) during dissasembly. Knowing 'stock Belleville stack thickness for your given reel is useful here too.  This gives you a target when/if replacing/reconfig Bellevilles, in general when shimming proceed slowly and cautiously cause too much will damage the reel.  Left spool shimming can help maintain free spool if the stack was decreased in size, and must be done when stack thickness increases in order to prevent the pinion/spool shaft from contacting the left side plate under max settings (most important).  Typically I try to avoid shimming under the pinion (above pinion bearing), but you if it is needed..make sure to add same thickness to left drag plate to give the shaft room (may have to decrease Belleville stack thickness as well.  Also, be aware that shimming the left drag plate will often cause it to contact the free floating drag disc quicker, the spacing and free floating nature, along with the drag spring, should still cause both discs to engage simultaneously w/modest shimming here.  However if the outter engages prematurely, may need to remove outter shim or add one under the inner drag plate as well.  I try to keep total shimming to less then 1mm (or ~3 0.3mm shims max).  Experiment and test.  The good thing is these reels have a but if room to play with here.  You can actually do a surprising amount of preliminary-type 'blue printing' here just by varying Belleville config, thickness, and corresponding shimming.  You can go for a more springy/linear type curve with better low end performance, or a steep ramp up to higher drag settings.  Realize: "You can't get something for nothing" here.  Ideally you can get a preset that works in its sweet spot, with good gear alignment throughout the typical drag range, and good freespool at the max and strike settings your after.  Remember setting the reel up to fish outside its original design may come at a cost with excessive laterial/torsional loads, accelerated parts wear, heat gen, or others. I'm still learning how to properly shim/adjust these so take my advice on this matter with a grain if salt.  

If these reels are properly and regularily serviced they can function as the workhorses they were intended to be for decades (I've seen some still kicking hard after nearly 40 years of presumed heavy use).  

Hope I didn't overly complicate the matter here..after all these reels strong point is their simplicity and ruggedness.  

Hope you found my musings useful too.

Hi John. you have said the truth,  we all should take note......Its from your experience that we can  and are learning to be more aware.  thanks for sharing your insights with us.  someday we will recall your words.   if we,r lucky......gst.

GS,
You know the funny thing is..the other day I was stuck on a shimming issue and couldn't quite figure out what to do and I ended up looking to the forum and actually had to read one of my own posts and take my own advice to get it right...funny how that works :)

Hello tightlines, I am working on my first International II 80TW. In the second picture at about 3 o'clock on the far right, below the dog springs, there appears to be a waved stainless washer. Where does that fit in the assembly? Thanks. Your posting has been a big help as I'm getting ready to test for shimming.

Pretty sure that was shim between the left plate bearing and the outer drive plate.

I have since arrived back home and examined the washer in my situation. I closely looked at the wear pattern and the washer is definitely a shim with a wear pattern consistent with the left side outer plate positioning also. Thank you for your time, I greatly appreciate it. Do you know exactly where there is more basic information on the principles of shimming in this forum? In this reel I have assessed pinion to main gear mesh with gear grease and the 'feel' of their function of the gears with the reel set in full free clutch position, with no preload strike pressure. Also, I have checked spool travel from no load to full strike load, and I have assessed the progression of friction washers and clutches as the ()() linear type, and checked the gear meshing under full load also. Some of this I have relied on measurements, then fallen back on what the 'feel' I want for the friction clutching. Anyways, thanks again.

Also, do you have an opinion on how much main gear to pinion gear play is within normal tolerances?

I'm not sure exactly how much space there should be there, but I know there needs to be a little.  I typically just go by feel here.  They should crank relatively smoothly and have no noticeable 'grinding', or wobble or bumpy feel.  An important thing is that the gears mesh properly on a lateral basis whereby the drive gear does not contact the clicker ratchet at 0 preset, and freespool, and likewise that the high speed drive gear doesn't contact the step (from high to low speed) on the pinion gear, and the Bellevilles don't contact the low speed drive gear under max settings.  The third thing to check is that there is no appreciable lateral or torsional play in the drive shaft.  Generally if you put the reel back together and put it through its paces, you will know if something isn't quite right here.  If you crack it open after testing you can usually see through the dusplacement of your fresh grease where the gears are meshing throughout their range.  Don't stress too much about this stuff, the reels have a little bit of looseness built in here.

Main thing to check for here is that there are no obvious cracks, marring, or uneven wear patterns on the gears, (or drive shaft) and that the spool, shaft, and drive shaft are not warped or bent.  If your bearings are good and there is appreciable roughness when cranking these are your most likely culprits.  Roughness in high speed is usually more noticeable and often due to worn high speed main gear.  I believe the pinion gear is made of a slightly harder material and is more resistant to wear...though I have come accross two reels w/warped/bent spool shafts, and 1 w/a cracked pinion gear tooth...typically the gears are the last thing that need replacing.  (Wear typically occurs or is noticed most on the high speed drive, then low speed drive, then pinion)

So if you really want to make your reel feel smoother when cranking...
First is new pinion bearing, then new drive shaft bearings, then drive shaft/low speed main/high speed main/then pinion.  Also since the pinion is usually the first bearing to fail, if I replace any bearings on the reel, I make sure the pinion is a new one.  Seems like the inner then outer (depending on water/salt intrusion) drive shaft bearings are the next to go, followed by the right spool, then left side plate, then left spool bearings.  Another thing I forgot to mention that I have been noticing is the left spool bearing can spit grease inside the drag area, if left open.  Although freespool suffers some, I've been leaning towards leaving the shields on the spool bearings and packing them w/grease for trolling applications.  If they are replaced unshielded, I use Cal's and also use Cal's to lube the free floating drag plate (where it contacts the spool pins), and an untra thin layer of cals througgout the drag chamber. I know the left side plate, right spool, then pinion and drive shaft bearings are more susceptable to water/salt intrusion issues..so logic might dictate that leaving the shields off of these bearings will give the water a way out. I've done a few reels w/open bearings and a few w/fully packed closed bearings...I'll check to see how they held up under heavy use in 6-12months when I service them again and see what seems to be working best in these reels.

Awesome. I think my reel is in good shape and ready for my trip to the gulf next month. Thanks again.

Great post Tightlines . I just started servicing my own reels this winter. The reason i started servicing reels is because I had one older 30 international from the 80's that would not produce much drag at all without losing freespool. I took it to a penn repair place where they installed new dura drag upgrade and got it back with same problem. I figured it was time to start learning to service and repair myself. The first reel I ever cracked open was a newer 30 international two speed and with the help of this forum I got it serviced so for those that are intimidated by these reels, dont be. Just do one section of the reel at a time. I am only servicing my own reels which is about a dozen penn internationals ranging from 30 to 80 size so I am no pro but i wanted to add a few of my observations. My reels with the exception of the 30 from 1983 ( i think) are all from 2001 to 2012 years that were bought new and never opened up or serviced before. I know this is way too long to let these go without service. We are weekend warriors so they are not fished as much a charter boat but still had salt water use and more important salt water intrusion. I liked knowing these were all stock and no one had touched them except me. They all worked but some not too smooth.
     My first reel was the 2 speed 30vsw international that was fairly new and worked perfect prior to service. After a few attempts and broken minor parts It was ready for more fishing. For other rookies my mistakes were bending the ears on #23 in the schematic which is the handle screw from turning the wrench on #110a shifter base instead of holding it in place while removing#110c the shifter button retainer. My other mistake was removing the e-clip #52 from the drag cover pin #156a instead of leaving it and simply lifting and turning #156b to the side. I hope this helps someone thinking about getting into a newer international. You could make the same mistake on other models too like the 50 vsw and others with the plastic drag cover and same shifter.

  I also noticed the bearings seem to fail in the same location and order as Tightlines described. After seeing someone post the same results I found with bearings I can understand why they fail first in these areas except the right spool bearing. I did not expect that but I had a few with rough right spool bearings and all left spool bearings were good. I chose to pack all bearings with grease for maximum protection and then reshield them as these are only used for trolling and great freespool is not needed. The grease packed spool bearings really slow them down.

   Since these reels were all stock and never greased before I found it interesting the difference in how much grease Penn built them with. Some reels hardly had any grease on anything and the bead of grease they applied to the bearings missed spots, other reels had much excess grease oozing out everywhere and bearings packed pretty well. Also one of my 50vsw reels had an extra part that the builder must have dropped and not found. It was the e-clip for the pin to spin the drag cover loose. The  one used on the drag cover was there and this extra one ended up stuck in the grease on the back of the drag plate where the dogs engage. I noticed some reels had every screw without loctite on it with well greased threads and other reels had no grease on any threads anywhere. I had one 2002 50 T international that a reel clamp stud was seized into the frame that ended up breaking off and I spent a while drilling out and picking the treads out before tapping.

   Just wanted to share some of my observations and my mistakes to help someone hopefully. Might save you some parts. Anybody thinking of cracking these internationals open can do it. Just take your time and lay all the pieces out in order. One component at a time when you start out. The right side plate components are the trickiest i think. Plan to spent a few hours on them. It takes me a few evenings to do a 2speed with nothing wrong with it, just cleaning and greasing. Thanks for all the help from the fine members here!

Also wanted to add that of all the different versions of Internationals I have I prefer the design of the VSW over any others I own to service.  The others are SW, TW, T, and just plain old original international. I especially like the right side plate design better in these VSW models i also prefer the black plastic drag covers on them.

As far as use of Loctite on the screws of these international IIs...
I've noticed Penn typically uses blue Loctite on the following screws:
-stand (6)
-clicker ratchet plate (4)
-drag disc(s) (4or8)
-drag cover(4)
-low speed drive gear (3)

I have only been using blue Loctite on ratchet plate and drag disc screws (when they need replacing, and are not upgraded to the single piece duradrag disc assembly), though I may consider using it on the gear screws too, since I have found some loose ones before.. Kinda torn here cause the pitch allows for greater torquing and stuck screws here are no good, conversely the screws are subject to alot of vibration and if they become loose it is definately problematic. 

I've also seen Loctite on the screws holding the high speed gear retainer to the side plate (2), and holding the cam housing to the side plate (3)...I don't like Loctite on any of these small screws that marry to the sideplate.

Another thing I'd mention is if you can, it pays to pull the bridge and grease it throughly when servicing since it can and likely will become more problematic as time and corrosion proceed. 

Also, I have been experimenting with using a thin coating of corrosion X HD on all metal surfaces inside the drag area, in lue of a thin coat of Cal's.  It seems to create good lubricity and provide corrosion protection while staying thin and not affecting freespool or other performance issues related to parts contacting one another. 

Just a few more thoughts that came to mind here.

I was not sure what to think about loctite either. I chose not to use any at all in any of my reels. I will admit that the three main gear screws were a tiny bit loose on two of my internationals. The advantage I have is these are not customers reels that will be upset with a failure as I am just trying to keep my own fleet going for now. I will service these reels every winter now so time will tell if any screws back out. Like I said though I am just a weekend warrior using these internationals from May to October. I can't wait to see how my first round of serviced reels do offshore this summer. In my estimation from testing in the shop the drags feel better than prior to service but the freespool is a little worse actually. This is just due to me packing the spool bearings full of grease. For my use they only need to frespool good enough to drop back to marlin trolling 6 knots or faster. I was amazed at the difference oiled spool bearings made in my smaller bay trolling rods. I tried reel x and tsi321 and even the levelwind reels freespool great. Its snowing right now here in Maryland and this fishing talk is getting me excited ! One month till striper season opens.

Just finished up a service on a 1990-50SW that had been heavily used, and well cared for for a number of years, then stored for awhile.  Overall the reel was in good condition and I decided to replace the worn clicker plate, pinion bearing (starting to get rough), Bellevilles (lost some springiness), and rod clamp bolts (bent/missing threads). Converted drag to wet, throughly cleaned all bearings (dipped in TSI 301, dried and packed with penn blue (left plate bearing left open). Corrosion X HD on all metal parts inside heat shield and spool, and penn blue on all other parts.  Reel X in handle, buttons, and drive sleeve.  Conversion from all thin to thick Belleviles, arranged stock ()(), increased the drag curve slightly and allowed for removal of single thrust washer, which brough effectively fished drag range to middle travel on preset.

2.5hrs total time, $40 total parts cost.  

Reel is smooth, and performs as expected upon completion, w/a slightly steeper fairly linear drag curve.  Customer is fishing str8 60lb ANDE monster mono, and uses it primarily to catch Mahi, Ono, and Spearfish... trolling skirts and/or dead bait

Update...first day on the water, the charter boat owner's son caught a nice Striped Marlin on the reel as part of a quad that hit this AM.  Performed flawlessly...talk about trial by fire :)

What a great thread this is, fantastic info.
Will have to remind someone I know with an 80 STW II that his reel is due a service. Reading this has me inspired to work on it again.
Last time was new pinion bearing and bellevilles, converted drag to wet. Will look into shimming this time 'round after asking if he is happy with the drag curve.
Certainly nothing to be intimidated by, these reels. Work on them section by section. Then bolt all back together.

Love the old Inters!

Tightlines, when you say you are switching Bellevilles from thin to thick are these Penn parts or aftermarket Bellevilles? I bought a couple of extra Bellevilles from PennParts for an old 30 Inter I had trouble with but I was wondering where you were sourcing these Bellevilles if you dont mind sharing. Thanks -Rick

I've been picking mine up from a local source, who happens to have a good supply of both thick snd thin washers for most of the international IIs.  I'm pretty sure pennparts has em too depending on the model most have seperate parts numbers for the heavy (thick) vs. the light (thin) Bellevilles.  The attached pic shows the 2 different ones for the 50 size internationals (note: my el cheapo caliper is only accurate to +\- 0.1mm).  You may want to first review the schematics, then talk to someone at Penn or Scott's to see if they can send you what you need.

Thought it might be useful to provide a list of Belleville washers by Penn part numbers, and models listed as using them (stock):

Part#/models/Heavy or Light?/washer thickness (+/-0.1mm)
18-6/6,12,12W/Light *No longer available
18-12T/12LT,12T,12H,16VS/Light
18H-300LD/12VS,12VSX,TRQ300LD/Heavy
18-60/16S/Light
18-16VS/16VS,16VSX(old+new)/Heavy
18-20/16S,20,30/Light
18-30/20T,30T,30S,30VW,30VSW(old+new)/Light
18-30TW/30SW,30TW,30VSX/Heavy
18H-30VS/?/Heavy
18L-30VS/?/Light
18-50TW/50,50W,50T,50TW,50S,50SW,50VW (older+newer),50VSW,50VSX/Heavy/1.2mm
18-50W/same models as 18-50TW/Light/<1.0mm
18-80W/All 80s, 70VS(older+newer),80VSW/Heavy/1.25mm*I think all new parts ordered are typically heavy, but many older int and IIs have Light/<1.1mm not sure where to source light washers since they have same part #
18-130/130,130H,130S,130ST,130VSX/Heavy/1.25mm

As you can see, there are many different options available for penn bellevilles.  There is some overlap between models on which of these washers can be utilized.  If the the inner and outer diameters match that of the stock bellevilles they can be used.  This provides many different options for some customization of drag curves to desired.  To this ends, it might prove useful to have a list of more exact measurements for uncompressed(h), compressed thicknesses(t), max force(f), as well as inner (ID) and outer diameters(OD).  There are some measurements that can be found elsewhere on this board of a few different belleville washers if you do a search.  I was thinking it might be useful to have a dedicated thread to Bellevilles (like the bearing thread)?  If you know the specs you can source Bellevilles directly from McMaster-Carr.

Hope this helps.

Thanks for the belleville info Tightlines. -Rick

Bump.
The saga continues.  I have serviced am additional 4-130STs, 1-130H, 3-80STWs, 1-80, and 1-80SW since my last post.  Any questions about my recent findings..just ask.

Just finished up complete service if 4 80-STWs 1999-2000 models.  These were very straight forward.  One was heavily used w/a bit of internal corrosion and salt intrusion, as well as some wear on the drag plates (inner plate seems to typically wear faster/more then outer in these.  But I finished complete service on all 4 including full machine stripping and spooling in around 9hrs.  The reels needed all new drive shaft bearings (8 total), all new pinion bearings (4), and 3 additional bearings, I replaced all Bellevilles from all thin to 2 thin 2 thick with the stock ()() config (customer wanted to fish straight 130lb mono), a few screws, and 3 handle lock plates.  Total parts cost for all 4 was $398.52.  No real headaches, or surprises and I actually got these done in roughly half the time it typically takes me (~5hrs/reel).  With the amount of time I have been spending in cleaning parts, I'm considering investing in a 3 gal or larger capacity sonic cleaner, I think I like the Fisher.  Any questions, just ask.

John,
If I ever decide to get an International, I am personally sending to you Brother!
Your Expertise is nothing short of Amazing! ;)

Since my last update, I serviced a 'like new' condition 130ST that had the titanium handle arm, and rod braces.  This reel still had penn blue factory grease and appeared to have never been used.  There was no internal corrosion present, and no signs if wear on the alert ratchet, the drags, or the outter drag plate.  It already had relatively new line, as well.  I spent 2 hrs in a complete disassembly/degrease, relube & rebuild.  I replaced the Bellevilles (since it had obviously been stored with the lever engaged), converted the drag over to a wet style with Cal's, and fully packed all the bearings.  2 weeks later the reel sold locally for a modest $150 profit.

This week, I got a great deal on a pair on 80STWs in 'like new' condition.  The first was a 1991 model, the second a 2001 model.  I spent about 7hrs performing the complete service on both reels.  They were both in excellent overall condition.  I replaced the Bellevilles in both reels, and gave the first reel new drive shaft bearings, and a pinion bearing as well, though they were just beginning to show signs if roughness.  The first reel had a little but of corrosion/light rust on the Bellevilles, inner drive shaft bearing, and high speed main gear.  There was a bit if WD-40 or similar varnish on some of the reels right side parts (including the 2-speed shift mech., and some gunk in one side if the drag chamber, and a slight but if corrosion under the reel foot.  The second reel had no corrosion, but a but if dried grease, and some bearings were basically dry.  Both reels got the full AT treatment and are currently available for sale.  I invested about 7hrs and roughly $65 in parts, another $50 in line.  If your interested in these reels check out the for sale section...

http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=12334.0

1991 model...

Second 80STW/2001 model...

G'day John,

Firstly, thank you for all the detailed information you have included in this thread. Please keep adding to it when you can.
I recently had a 50SW II, that I just couldn't seem to get the drag progression to come good. Basically, when coming back from strike of approx 8kg (the owner fishes 24kg mono on this reel), the drag pressure comes off very quick, and you end up with a fair bit of travel on the lever where the reel is in free spool, way before hitting the actual free spool stop (if that makes sense). I tried many different combinations of bellevilles, shims, and I did manage to make it marginally better by sourcing some aftermarket bellevilles from a small parts supplier. These had a slightly higher "deflect able" height than any of the Penn bellevilles available for this reel. These aftermarket ones were about 0.1mm higher each, so configured ()() I ended up with a Belleville stack around 0.4mm wider. This managed to reduce the free spool arc a bit, but I was still unhappy to have to hand the reel back to the owner this way (he needed it for a trip). With this stack in place, the side effect is, there is not much adjustment with the preset dial backed right off, before the strike setting goes beyond 8kg.
I checked out the alignment of the drag cam housing and it does not appear to have moved, and I also renewed the cam pins. I really would like to be able to get this reel working as it should, only dropping into free-spool on the free-spool stop, and ramping up nice and smooth to an 8kg strike setting.
Thanks in advance for any advice you may be able to give me.

First off, just a reminder that you need to make sure to follow the manufacture's instructions, or those posted on this site for synching the gears by adjusting the position of the dogs on these SW models.

Next regarding your drag curve problem, I need to ask if the longer area on the start of lever movement of freespool is there as you first move the lever forward, or only after you've had it forward, and are backing it off. 

If it's the later your spool shaft is likely binding somewhere, either due to being bent, or marring/finding where it passes through the one or both pinion bearings, or possibly on the inner drag plate (less likely).  This type of binding will show a characteristic jump as the spool shifts to the right when/if the binding releases.  This is usually causes a reel to not want to drop into freespool, so is not likely your problem.

More likely is that you need to increase the space taken up between the pinion and spool bearing.  Have you tried a few more 0.3mm shims w/the Belleviles to increase the stack height by 1.00 total?  Sounds like you've played around with the spacing shimming quite a bit already, but it may take a bit more tinkering to get it right.

Another thing to check is to make sure your cam assembly is working properly when installed in the reel, and there is no binding or jumping.  A picture of the cam and cam follower might be useful if you are experiencing problems here.  I know there are 2 different types of cam follower designs on these reels.  Also make sure the cam pins ride evenly and smoothly on the cam itself, and that the pins ride up and down in the cam housing smoothly as well.

How much (how many turns) is your preset knob adjusted to at your desired and effective max (before loss of freespool) settings?  With a stock Belleville ()() set up typically the preset would be about 1.5 to 2 turns in for typical strike drag setting to max effective drag setting.  Also, ideally you want negligible drag (w/lever at strike) when the preset is backed all the way off.

Not sure if that helps?  But keep tinkering with it and you should get it sorted out.

Thanks for the reply John. The first scenario you described with the drag lever is what's happening. There is no binding at all, it happens when the lever is moved from free to increase, or from strike back. Only really getting progression of drag from about a little under a half of the arc between Freespool and Strike. The rest the lever arc is virtual Freespool. Only seem to get noticeable drag ramp across this whole sector when strike is well beyond 10kg (didn't measure with scales, but certainly much greater than 8kg's). As the owner fishes under GFAA rules by his own choice, it's not really practical for him to fish the reel the way it currently is, but he is winging it.
I'm away overseas at work until Xmas, but will get the reel back and get some pix up when I'm able.
I certainly have played around a lot with shims, I've had them in every conceivable spot, and in many combinations. The drag cam bore has no pitting or burrs. The follower pins I renewed, thinking these might have been the problem.
I'm very interested about the different cams you mentioned. I wasn't aware there were two cam types for these reels. As the current owner bought it second hand, he is not sure of the history of this reel, other than when I first opened it up, my impression was it had been reasonably looked after, all except for a stainless self tapper placed in where the long side plate screw goes on the full drag stop.
I really would like to get this reel tuned up properly.

I just finished servicing a Penn International 80-W made in 1971.  The customer just started a charter buisness and wanted this reel fixed up so he could use it as his back-up rig.  It was in pretty rough shape corrosion wise, and took awhile to clean up.  The bridge screws, a stand screw, and the two rail screws were corroded in place and needed replacing.  The handle assembly was also too far gone and was replaced with a new one.  All 4 bearings were in rough shape.  I replaced the pinion with a new one, and the other 3 with reconditioned/lightly used ones, the clicker ratchet plate was replaced, and shimmed up (since I could not obtain a new clicker pawl for this model).  I also replaced the Bellevilles and used the stock ()() config.  I replaced/ upgraded the drag to a new inner (80STW), and outter (70VSX) dura drags.  The floating plate was badly scored, but I could not find a replacement so I reconditioned it with 200 grit sandpaper.  This was a lot more labor intensive then if I had access to a lathe.  The chrome also wore off of the plastic in the drag lever (left it as is per customer's instructions. I also replaced the badly corroded drive shaft (gear stud) and shimmed it (0.3 inside, and 0.3mm outside) for a tight fit.  All told, I spent 6.5hrs on this one, with a total parts cost of $228 (I charge half price for used/reconditioned parts).  The drag is smooth and has a good stock curve,  the gears are in good condition, the reel cranks smoothly, the reel's freespool is not the best due to using the plastic race style bearings in the spool and packing em with grease.  The customer was happy with the final result.

I just cracked open a 130ST that I serviced in March 2014.  The customer has been fishing it heavily on a popular charter boat all season, and he complained about the drag surging a bit when loaded up during a prolonged battle.  It caught several large fish previously without any noticable problems.  

I replaced the 2 drive shaft, pinion, left spool bearings, and 2 Bellevilles, and added a 0.3mm shim to the left spool plate when I serviced it last.  I opened the old bearings (that I kept) and put them in the spool.  I also made a note that the clicker plate and pawl were somewhat worn and should be replaced at the next service interval.  I could not replicate any drag-related (or other) noticable problems on my benchtop.  

Overall the reel was in excellent condition,and the grease I had used stayed in place everywhere I put it.  There was minimal evidence of water intrusion (a bit to the outter bridge, and outter drive shaft bearing), and the only screws that had loosen up at all were the 3 main gear plate screws (I will Loctite these in the future).  The drags (that had been previously treated w/Cal's) appeared to be in excellent condition overall.  The pinion and left plate bearings both showed some noticeable roughness (despite having been replaced and fully packed with grease).  The Bellevilles still appeared in good overall condition (and measured just about 0.15mm less then when installed new).  I cleaned everything up, replaced the pinion and left side plate bearings, clicker ratchet, and pawl, repacked the bearings, reconditioned and regressed the drag plates, lubed everything else as appropriate and put her back together.  3 hrs labor, less then $70 in parts, and it should be good for another season.  I am a little perplexed as to why the drag was surging when loaded up and hot, and believe this reel could probably fished a while longer before needing a service.

Update....

After crackimg the reel and messing around with it some more, I was able to determine that this reel needed a new inner drag plate because it was slightly warped, I decided to replace the slightly marred fliating drag disc as well.  Then I noticed the spoop shaft was slightly bent with about a 0.5mm wobble apparent.  This was likely
the reason why the drag was a but surgy under heavy load. I ordered a new pinion gear.  So new parts cost is $270.  I also decided to add a small washer/spacer to the outside portion of the clicker pawl in order to increase the clicker volume.  Though this means the parts will likely wear faster.  When something isn't quite right its best to keep problem sopving until you find the true culprit.

Note:  this is the second 130 I've found with a bent spool shaft. 

I just finished up a complete service of 3 Penn International 130H reels.  These reels were in pretty good condition given their oversll age.  I upgraded the drags on 2 w/Duradrag replacement discs, replaced 10 total bearings, 3 new drive shaft felt washers, new preset washers, all new Bellevilles, a stand screw, 2 Quasrent screws (retapped), and modified an older International II 80W clicker assembly to replace one missing parts.  There was a bit of corrosion on the bellevilles, one main gear, and Some bearings (right spool, drive shaft, and tailplate).  I spent 13hours in these reels.  Total parts cost was $516.  The sonic cleaner worked well.  I bought a metal basket to hold the parts on these larger reels.

Very nice John, and I thought my workbenches were sloppy ;D

Boy, you really know what you are doing with those Internationals, John!

Great job --

When are you going to start blueprinting these?

I think you have the expertise, knowledge, and experience.

And Cal needs a little competition.

Best,

Fred

Quote from: foakes on January 26, 2015, 01:52:47 AM
Boy, you really know what you are doing with those Internationals, John!

Great job --

When are you going to start blueprinting these?

I think you have the expertise, knowledge, and experience.

And Cal needs a little competition.

Best,

Fred

Thanks Fred!  I do like restoring these old 80s and 130s.  They are great workhorses, and capable of decades of heavy use.  Your not the first person who has suggested I get into 'Blueprinting'.  There seems to be plenty of straight servicing buisness here as is.  Not sure what the local demand for blueprinting would be.  Guess I have a few regular customers that would like upgraded reels. Honestly, I am not quite sure what true Blueprinting would require?

As I understand it, this process aims to achieve a specific drag curve (1-2lbs just out of freespool, 1/3 of recomended breakimg strength at strike and 50% more at max drag), and increasing the reel's effective max drag through such steps as...
-Changing the Belleville's (#, config, thickness)
-Modifying the drag pressure plates(i.e. honing them down), and/or drag discs
-Or Replacing stock with larger drag discs (I.E. 130 discs on an 80), this would require machining the left side of the spool in order to accomodate the larger diameter discs
-Honing down the floating drag disc
-Modifying the cam assembly

I would like to have the ability to resurface the floating metal drag discs, or retrue warped pressure plates (prob need a lathe?)
-Changing the drag spring
-Adjust shiming/spacing

The other skill (and means) that comes to mind that I lack, is creating head plate or bridge spacers, or modifying the inside of the head plate to convert single to 2-speed reels.  I can do a 2-speed conversion with new parts, but it seems a bit cost prohibitive.  

Sounds like to be able to do alot of this stuff, I would need access to a machine shop, and sone new skills, as well as the ability to anodize newly machined parts. 


Food for thought.

I am always willing to learn.

This is turning into a great thread!
Thanks for sharing your insights.
Much appreciated, Justin

this is really informative and is causing me to get psyched up to buy another 80w International now that I know that I can substitute  some 80stw and 70vs parts for the drag (hope I quoted the right reels, if not, I will look at this thread for sure!!)

What an extremely, super cool thread. I enjoyed reading it...Jeff

we had breakfast last week.  yup, pretty sharp fella!

Can this thread please be stickied?

After an extended leave of absence due to travel for my other job and prolonged illness, I am finally back at it again.

I just spent 6hrs on dissasembly of 2 reels.  The 80STW was in terrible condition due to neglect, and corrosion.  I had to drill out 7 seperate screws (1 stand bolt, 3 post, 1 handle, and 2 Clicker ratchet).  I needed to use all the tricks, and tools in my book just to get this baby dissasembled.  I need to get an arbor press for these frozen bridges.  The second reel, an 80SW went much smoother.  

The 80STW was a 1995 and appears to have been serviced once (old dried up grease, different pinion bearing, upgraded clicker assembly).  This reel was in terrible condition, and showed signs of heavy use, and neglect.  The drags were gen 3, and were heavily worn, with a broken drag spring (first one I've ever seen).  All the bearings were toast (2 drive shaft, 4 main), all 4 pins (2 speed, cam) were shot, the 2 speed pawl was also heavily corroded and worn.  I also replaced a main gear retainer, clicker ratchet, pawl, and spring, 2 speed spring, 4 Bellevilkes, all 3 Teflon washers, and the handle retainer.  Total parts cost was around $200.  It really needed a new right side plate, but this is cost prohibitive, so I will use sum bonding agent to ensure the cam housing stays put for a little while longer.  I also decided to refurb and shim on each side, the drags to keep total cost down.  Next service interval, it may need drags ($85+, and a side plate $205) though.  

The 80SW was a 1989 model, but appeared to be in marginally better overall condition.  The grease was dry, and there was definatwly corrosion, but it came apart in 1hr, and only needed the torch twice, and 3 screws to be drilled and retaped (post, handle, ratchet).  The pinion, and left plate bearing appeared nearly new, so it only needed 2 new spool bearings, a clicker ratchet, and pawl, 4 Bellevilles, 3 Teflon (I now have them in stock...Thanks Dom! & they are cheap), 7 screws, 4 pins, and a handle retainer.  Around $100 in parts.  

I ran both reels though the sonic cleaner, gonna finish the cleaning/deburring process, then relube, reassembly, and final shimming/adjustments.  I will keep you posted.

Way to go resuscitating those babies John ;). Show the finished product, when done.
The owner might kiss you for those ;D, I know he'll be a happy camper.

Sal

Here are a couple of pics of the badly corroded head plate on the 80STW.  This is a case where it should get replaced, but due to my customer's budget I took a much cheaper route...

I cleaned everything up, (sonic cleaner, files, wire brush, steel wool) and treated with a corrosion removing product.  Then after everything dried, I retapped the cam housing retaining screws, and bonded everything in place with a strong bonding agent made for a local tackle shop.  Alternatively, I may try using a strong metal bonding epixy/filker with aluminum shavings in it, in the future.

Once everything set up, this proved to form a strong bond between the headplate and cam housing.  There was no movement in the cam housing, and the lip is firmly supported by the remaining aluminum on the sideplate. The housing is also supported laterally by the bridge (which I made sure was not bonded to the other parts).  Typically the housing primarily experiences outward force by the cam assembly, which should help to keep it seated properly.  The only possible weakness would be if inward forces become excessive, but the outer assemblies typically prevent this from ocuring, and the lup is still supported by the 2 new retaining screws.

I have employed this same fix on 2 other badly corroded 80STW sideplates in the past, and I recieved positive feedback from one of the customers after a season of use.  I did replace 2 other sideplates that had this issue (and bad corrosion around the clicker assembly, and drive shaft) before, so I guess in these cases it is really a judgement call.  If corrosion prevents good support of the cam hoysing lip, clicker, or drive shaft inner bearing, the plate really does need replacing in order for the reel to function properly.  These sideplates are expensive, and I am alwats trying to find ways to save them money   

Just a suggestion but try using Steel Bed from Brownells it has S/S filings in it. Very strong stuff Brownells Catalog Pg 475

Quote from: Reel 224 on March 22, 2015, 02:00:43 AM
Just a suggestion but try using Steel Bed from Brownells it has S/S filings in it. Very strong stuff Brownells Catalog Pg 475

Thank you for that info.  Looks like high quality stuff. There are 2 problems though:
1)They will not ship to HI and there is no local distributor, 2)It is expensive

After a bit of research, I think I might go with the Devcon Alum. epoxy putty.

http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools-supplies/stock-work-finishing/stock-bedding-adhesives/epoxy-metals-prod5808.aspx

This is available locally, is rated well, sets up much more quickly (I can't afford to let parts dry for 48hrs), and is much more cost-effective.  

Now I am wondering if there is a dye that I can mix with it to match the iconic Penn International Gold color.  Not sure if the gold anodizing dye can be used this way?  Or if I am better off with a printing dye, or powdercoat powder. This is new territory for me.  Any suggestions would be apprecuated.  I have been trying to find a quality product for filling corrosion pockets in the alum. parts on these reels.  This might fit the ticket.

....which in turn is a lot like JB Weld*, which is far more easily available, in small packages too.

But jeez, that sideplate has holes right through it...



*There are many types of JB Weld. One of them is aluminum powder filled, hi-temp. Sets very nicely, can be shaped, sanded and so on. Makes a very good filler. I don't recall right now what they call it. Look it up.

.

Mr. Janssen,

Thanks for the info.  I have used the alum JB weldbon my duck boat, and it is solid stuff after it sets up.  Devcon seems to be rated a bit better.  The holes are covered by the bridge, so with some celephane, it would make a nice mold to fill in these gaps.  As it stands, I left this one be, like 2 of the other 4 reels I have seen with this level of corrosion.

Update:

I finished up the reassembly of the 80STW, but it still needs a bit of minor adjustment/shimming.  I've got 13hrs into this reel and counting.  Not surprisingly I ran into a few more problems.  The bridge needed some fine tuning to mount squarely and flush, and the bearing pockets needed a bit of fine tuning in order for them to mount perfectly square.  The drive shaft was binding on them when it was installed the first time.  The cam housing needed some sanding in order for the cam to fit and function properly.  and I opted to replace the entire clicker assembly with a used newer style outer, and a new spring and pawl.  The pawl was binding on the inner portion, and the threads were damaged, so it could not be tightened properly. 

A quick preliminary check of the reel, tells me the gears are aligning properly, and functioning well, the 2-speed is working great, the drag is smooth, but requires more preset adjust then is typical, and the clicker only functions in free spool.  I will play around with the shimming tmrw, to try to move the spool to the right, pinion to the left (decrease Belleville stack height), may add a shim under the inner drive plate, and may add a shim to the top of the clicker pawl (to move it to the left).  Then on to reassemblimg the 80SW.  So far, got about 2.5hrs into disassembly and cleaning of this one (much more typical). 

The bonding material I suggested from Brownells I am very familiar with, as I use it for bedding various rifles. It does take a long time to cure and that is part of it's strength (slow cure). I understand your application requires a fast method of repair, but JB weld isn't something I would rely on for mending a hole such as that for a long period of time. As for dye I'm not sure of how to obtain the anodized collar you are looking for. I would give Brownells a call and see if the Devcon will be good for your application. If shipping is a problem PM me and I can get it to you, maybe get a better price, shipping to HI I'm not sure of the cost. I'm surprised that there would be a problem for them to ship to you.

By the way the first kit I suggested comes with a bonding release agent so you can coat the parts you don't want to be bonded. Believe me this stuff will bond steel or any mettle permanently. I used it to bond a broken backalite handle on my ban saw 20 years ago. It's as solid as new today.   

Finished up with the 80SW today.  It took 6.5hrs total.  Spent like 2hours on the final shimming/adjustments.  I ended up using the ((()| belleville config w/one shim.  This decreased the stack height by 0.6mm and gave the customer a bit more aggressive drag curve then stock. 

The 80STW got a pinion shim, and one on each of the 2 drag pressure plates, and 1 clicker pawl shim.

Both reels are working perfectly with the recommended drag at strike right at 1.5 turns in on the presets. 

Nice looking work and a nice touch with the Brownells tool box. ;) What did you decide on doing with the blowout on the reel plate?

Quote from: Reel 224 on March 23, 2015, 07:34:50 PM
Nice looking work and a nice touch with the Brownells tool box. ;) What did you decide on doing with the blowout on the reel plate?

I left it as you see it in the last pic.  The cam housing was secured to the sideplate with bonding agent, and retainimg screws, and held in place by the bridge.  The bridge covers these hokes as well, and since the gear does not ride on the sideplate direcyly, it is structurally sound and finctions as advertised.  As I said, in the future when/if I encounter excessive electrolusis/corrosion, I may try DEVCON alum putty filler, dyed with a gold anodizing color.  The customer is happy with the results and will be fishing these reels tmrw.

You are really doing some nice work on the restores John. Lot of pleasure bringing old stuff back to life whether it is reels or rods.

Quote from: Tightlines666 on March 23, 2015, 08:27:20 PM

Quote from: Reel 224 on March 23, 2015, 07:34:50 PM
Nice looking work and a nice touch with the Brownells tool box. ;) What did you decide on doing with the blowout on the reel plate?

I left it as you see it in the last pic.  The cam housing was secured to the sideplate with bonding agent, and retainimg screws, and held in place by the bridge.  The bridge covers these hokes as well, and since the gear does not ride on the sideplate direcyly, it is structurally sound and finctions as advertised.  As I said, in the future when/if I encounter excessive electrolusis/corrosion, I may try DEVCON alum putty filler, dyed with a gold anodizing color.  The customer is happy with the results and will be fishing these reels tmrw.

That's understandable since a lot of repair work such as that, which in the long run is more cosmetic then functional can get quite costly. I do think the owner needs to keep a close eye on the reel for more corrosion in the future though.

John what do you mean when you say " I shimmed the drive gear, pinion, and left drag plate too."

Just that I placed a 0.3mm shim over the pinion bearing, over the tailplate bearing, and under the high speed maingear.

Quote from: Tightlines666 on April 30, 2014, 05:59:11 AM
........I replaced all Bellevilles from all thin to 2 thin 2 thick with the stock ()() config (customer wanted to fish straight 130lb mono), ........ Any questions, just ask.

John,

I finally opened my 16s and the two benevilles that are near to the pinion have a lot corrosion so, I will change all 4 benevilles and also I will put a new pinion bearing too cuz it has bit of corrosion and feels rough (strangly I didnt felt any binding when the reel was a 15# drag strike) well anyway, I already ordered few different benevilles from the 16s, 16vs and 16vsx, new spring for the drag plate and the pinion bearing, my question is.

is there any particular order to arrange or play with the benevilles? like that way you did, two thick and two thin ()(), or as Alan Tani did (()) and added another stock beneville to have (())), can I go like this (()) with two thicks in the middel and two thins outside and a Shim if needed or backwards, I dont know if there are two or three basic arragments that you try that I might for them first instead of trying to invent the wheel

thanks in advance

I always start with stock size arranged stock, and measure the original stack height and compare to the new height.  You can progressively try stiffer arrangements like replacing 2 light with 2 heavy, then with 4 heavy, then try all light (((), then with last 2 heavy, then maybe (()).  It all depends on the what the tolerances for total stack height are for your reel.. which I do not know.  So you just have to try different arrangements.  If stock arrangement, and thin washers give you the drag curve, and operation you want just stick with those.  If you are having trouble with freespool you might need to reduce stack height by changing the arrangement, or you may need to increase height by adding washers or shims.  Different #s arrangements, and types along with shims will change the overall function and drag curve., but you need to stay within tolerances or the reel will not function properly.  Just play around a bit.

John

thanks, I will update when I install the parts and do some tests

Great job! it looks like you turned a sow's ear into a silk pouch. Now you have 6 reely nice Penn Internationals that are ready to go back to work.