What is the best, and recommended solvent for cleaning reels? California has banned just about every decent solvent..that being said, what do you guys recommend?
well, the nail-polish Capital of the World could never ban Acetone ;D
Varnish Makers and Painters (VM&P) Naphtha from the hardware store. Nearly the same as expensive Ronson lighter fluid.
-steve
Oh, there's acetone free NPR and acetone has a regulatory limit on benzene PPM, 25 in US and 10 in EU. I used to work for the major player in nail polish in California and this particular subject was my headache to deal with.
That said- I never use solvent on reels. Dawn or simple green in US cleaner, no SG on aluminum parts, just dawn. Once clean, I'll soak anything showing corrosion in white vinegar a couple of days, then rinse. You have to be careful with solvents on painted parts, and plastic- they may destroy entirely or minimally haze / peel.
The only thing I use a solvent for is to flush bearings I'm not going to pull seals off of. Cover the bearing with lighter fluid in a small jar, I like a pimento jar, cap, and swish it around every hour or so. Flushes out a lot of gunk, when the fluid stays clear, I'll let dry then soak in Corrosion X.
Everyone on the board will do something different, and pull shields, soak all metal in MEK, use TS321, whatever...all good. this works fine for me and gets things clean and casting as long as my thumb will do- not a function of bearing speed.
Some of the pros use lacquer thinner- which can be turpentine, acetone, or other hydrocarbon based, but it gets expensive (Fred just spoke of this today). Faster yes, but more costly and potentially hazardous, plus waste disposal. I don't think I've had anything the US with Dawn or SG wouldn't deal with, if so I might spray with WD40 and scrub out first. My 0.01.
I think "best" kinda depends on your situation; how many reels you do/how beat up they are. I'm purely a hobbyist and only doing a handful for myself and buddies over the year and Dawn dish soap, isopropyl, and white vinegar along with "elbow grease" are my staples. I have used lacquer thinner in the past as well to good effect. But cost has never really been a driving factor since it's not like I'm doing a dozen reels a day like the Pros. And there are considerations with what certain chemicals can do to the reels themselves (swelling bakelite sideplates, dissolved anodizing, etc) And probably most important there are considerations with personal safety (MEK anyone?) as well, but others here can speak to that with more authority. - john
I use lacquer thinners in the first instance and sometimes acetone, but the latter always on bearings.
I live where the safety rules are less stringent, which may be a bad thing.
Quote from: Cor on January 02, 2021, 04:11:30 AM
I use lacquer thinners in the first instance and sometimes acetone, but the latter always on bearings.
ditto... DO NOT want to remove shields, and MUST have residue-free final rinse
that's where acetone is ideal & since I already have the big jug, anyway
it's plenty good enough for sealed initial soak of all unpainted metal
I need nothing else that's noxious or flammable -- just household cleaners, vinegar, WD-40, etc.
would like to try MEK on a pile of bearings that are on the cusp between being used or tossed
Quote from: philaroman on January 02, 2021, 04:50:38 AM
Quote from: Cor on January 02, 2021, 04:11:30 AM
I use lacquer thinners in the first instance and sometimes acetone, but the latter always on bearings.
ditto... DO NOT want to remove shields, and MUST have residue-free final rinse
that's where acetone is ideal & since I already have the big jug, anyway
it's plenty good enough for sealed initial soak of all unpainted metal
I need nothing else that's noxious or flammable -- just household cleaners, vinegar, WD-40, etc.
would like to try MEK on a pile of bearings that are on the cusp between being used or tossed
Is MEK the stuff we use as hardener for Polyester resin...if it is terrible stuff to work with.
MEK is a solvent that I think would thin polyester and epoxy resins like acetone does. If I recall correctly, when cleaning a surface prior to applying silicone caulk, acetone and MEK both work but MEK dosn't evaporate as fast.
Quote from: SteveL on January 02, 2021, 10:50:10 AM
MEK is a solvent that I think would thin polyester and epoxy resins like acetone does. If I recall correctly, when cleaning a surface prior to applying silicone caulk, acetone and MEK both work but MEK dosn't evaporate as fast.
Sorry yes, I had it very wrong, I was thinking of MEKP the catalyst. https://www.tapplastics.com/product/fiberglass/gel_coat/tap_mekp_liquid_catalyst/40#:~:text=MEKP%20(Methyl%20Ethyl%20Ketone%20Peroxide,cures%20(hardens)%20the%20resin.
IPA, Acetone, MEK in that preferential order.
It is interesting that many people are thinning TSI321 with isopropyl alcohol rather than acetone often citing nylon races in the bearing that could be harmed by acetone. I have been soaking my bearings in mineral spirits, kerosene or napha (i.e. camp stove fuel or lighter fluid) folllowed by a quick soak/rinse in acetone. I usually dilute TSI321 with mineral spirits, sometimes with acetone. Dried bearings get a dunk/quick soak in the diluted TSI.
So, I checked a chemical compatibility chart for nylon and found some interesting info.
The following is from https://www.calpaclab.com/nylon-chemical-compatibility-chart/ at 72 degrees F:
- Isopropyl has a severe effect on nylon
- Ethyl Alcohol has excellent compatibility
- Methyl Alcohol has good compatibility
- Acetone and MEK have excellent compatibility, though not necessarily with other reel components
- Kerosene has excellent compatibility
- Naphtha has excellent compatibility
- Naphthalene has excellent compatibility
- Mineral spirits has excellent compatibility
- Lacquer Thinner has excellent compatibility
- Ethane has a severe effect on nylon
- Heptane has excellent compatibility
- Nylon is generally chemically resistant to oils and fuels, gasoline, mineral spirits,kerosene and naptha
- Nylon is NOT compatible with most acids
- Acetic acid (vinegar) has a severe effect on nylon
- Citric Acid has excellent compatibility
- Ammonia (10%) has excellent compatibility
Denatured alcohol can be a mix of Ethyl alcohol with Methyl and/or Ispopropl alcohol with up to 30% water (not good for mixing with TSI).
I listed Ammonia, not usually associated with cleaning reels, because I clean smoker grill grates and greasy stainless pots and pans with Dawn dishwashing liquid and ammonia (works great).
I am not recommending it or trying it myself with reels or bearings, but it does cut grease. (It could be an ingredient in some cleaners/degreasers.)
I use Dawn on side plates, graphite frames and some parts I don't want to soak in a solvent.
Other plastics may also be used for bearing races and could have different compatibilities.
Edit: Copied Naphthalene from the chemical site and treated it as Naptha (lighter fluid/camp fuel). They are different.
I use IPA a lot - not because it's the best solvent (it isn't) but it is one of the least harmful to me and plays nicely with most things ;D
Quote from: Tiddlerbasher on January 02, 2021, 01:03:56 PM
I use IPA a lot - not because it's the best solvent (it isn't) but it is one of the least harmful to me and plays nicely with most things ;D
I've used IPA before, but since finding that WD40 (safe on most reel parts ) is about 50% mineral spirits, and some rod and reel cleaners contain a good bit of mineral spirits, I don't worry about getting mineral spirits on most parts of a reel.
IPA may be fine for most parts of a reel, but the above info indicates it is not the best for soaking bearings or diluting TSI321 for use on bearings.
IPA might seem safe, but it absorbs through the skin as well as through breathing vapors. Same is true of acetone. Alan would likely know a good bit about the harmful effects of various solvents absorbed via skin or lungs. Gloves and ventilation probably recommended for everything but Dawn dishwashing liquid.
IPA 91% is more than $2.50 a quart at Walmart. I haven't found it cheaper by the gallon. ($20 a gallon is the lowest I found on 99% IPA). A gallon of camp stove fuel is about $10 at Walmart. I don't recall the price of a gallon of mineral spirits but I don't think it was much more. My choice of mineral spirits or naphtha is really determined by what is on the shelf and the price when I am at the store.
$20 for a gallon is cheap indeed for 99%, ACE has gallons for $33 but I can pick that up locally and avoid shipping costs(I always try to buy local first). I still have a gallon of denatured alcohol left over from rod building that I have been using for bearings, seems to work ok. I have been removing the shields before they get dunked. Dawn, simple green and vinegar works for everything else. I really try to avoid acetone
Quote from: thrasher on January 02, 2021, 01:55:22 PM
$20 for a gallon is cheap indeed for 99%, ACE has gallons for $33 but I can pick that up locally and avoid shipping costs(I always try to buy local first). I still have a gallon of denatured alcohol left over from rod building that I have been using for bearings, seems to work ok. I have been removing the shields before they get dunked. Dawn, simple green and vinegar works for everything else. I really try to avoid acetone
I never thought of buying 99% IPA at Ace. Unfortunately our Ace doesn't carry it, though they could probably order it.
Here's the link to $20.99 per gallon 99% IPA (free shipping on orders over $40):
https://artnaturals.com/1-gallon-isopropyl-alcohol.html
IPA is one of the preferred solvents for alcohol based hand sanitizer/scrubs (with a moisturising agent).
At the start of this pandemic I had a chat with a dermatologist about this and the result was making my own mix - 95% pure IPA and 5% sweet almond oil.
I now supply the whole family ::)
I'm not opposed to IPA for cleaning most parts, it is just that it costs the same or more than more effective solvents. Based on the info above, I shouldn't soak bearings with nylon races in IPA.
Brief contact of nylon with IPA as in diluted TSI might be OK. When I bought TSI321 I tried 3 jars diluting with 99% IPA, mineral spirits and acetone. Soaked some bearings, spun the bearings, spun spools on the bearings, and decided I liked the results with mineral spirits and/or acetone better. Diluted the remaining 99% ipa to 90% for household use.
Hand sanitizer and sanitizing a cut with IPA is a lot safer than getting it on your hands for a prolonged time while cleaning several reels. Skin contact is probably safer than with acetone or MEK, not so sure about mineral spirits or naphtha, but gloves and ventilation are still the safest choice.
Thanks for the input....I'm a retired tradesman here in California, and over the last 15 years of my career, the solvents we used for cleaning materials have been banned by the state...MEK and most recently, Denatured Alcohol..Thiugh it's the best cleaning agent I used in my work, MEK is highly toxic, as I've been told..the absorption rate thru the skin and tissues is almost instantaneous, having a direct and major affect on the liver....so, I suppose I've been in the ballpark by using WD40, then a good rinse with IPA....Happy New Year, and Tight Lines to All!!
Quote from: steelheadtom on January 02, 2021, 02:54:45 PM
Thanks for the input....I'm a retired tradesman here in California, and over the last 15 years of my career, the solvents we used for cleaning materials have been banned by the state...MEK and most recently, Denatured Alcohol..Thiugh it's the best cleaning agent I used in my work, MEK is highly toxic, as I've been told..the absorption rate thru the skin and tissues is almost instantaneous, having a direct and major affect on the liver....so, I suppose I've been in the ballpark by using WD40, then a good rinse with IPA....Happy New Year, and Tight Lines to All!!
If they still allow mineral spirits, WD40 is about 50% mineral oil and 50% mineral spirits with a few additives. If you are cleaning parts, that 50% mineral oil isn't helping and WD40 costs a good bit more than mineral spirits. Plus you won't have to rinse afterward. I still use WD40, but I only buy a spray can every year or so.
I use what Sal suggested to me quite awhile ago. Paslode Electronic tool cleaner from Home Depot. Made for cleaning all our battery drills, etc. No harm to plastic, no foul odor, not deadly to my liver. It's a spray so I do bearings with it too.
Sal taught everyone something.
I primarily use mineral spirits as I can tolerate the odor and fumes more than that of other solvents and it's worked well for me. I avoid the nastier solvents that are more rapidly absorbed into skin. On a few occasions I've used naphtha or denatured alcohol, but still prefer the mineral spirits -- and a final wash & scrub with dish detergent.
I also made some small scrapers out of pieces of hardwood upon which I burnished and scorched the edge on a fast, hard stone grinding wheel to harden it. Works great on removing hardened stuck-on gunk and doesn't scratch the metal on a reel.
Goop Hand Cleaner works if applied w/ a brush (acid brush) and allowed to sit for a an hour or 2. Scrub with a soft toothbrush and then soak in a solution of water & Dawn(or Ajax dish soap) . Remove parts, brush again and rinse. I usually do 3 or more reels at once (separate soak bowels), all reels are older
Penns or Ocean City or older spin reels. While one batch is soaking the first batch can be assembled.
Goop Hand Cleaner also works for installing rod grips and is epoxy compatible. Been using it over 30years w/ no complaints. Cleans greasy hands too and is dirt cheap.
Quote from: Rancanfish on January 02, 2021, 04:52:28 PM
I use what Sal suggested to me quite awhile ago. Paslode Electronic tool cleaner from Home Depot. Made for cleaning all our battery drills, etc. No harm to plastic, no foul odor, not deadly to my liver. It's a spray so I do bearings with it too.
Sal taught everyone something.
MSDS indicates it is contains primarily Heptane and Ethane. Assuming bearings contain nylon races, Heptane has excellent compatibility with nylon, while ethane has severe effects on nylon.
Route(s) of Entry: Inhalation, eye, skin and ingestion.
Health Hazards (Acute and Chronic):
Inhalation – irritation of respiratory tract.
Eye – irritation; possible damage from large doses.
Ingestion – irritation of gastro-intestinal tract.
Skin – possible irritation from large doses.
My cleaning solvent is Mineral Spirits in an old Big Red parts washer. I use it for cleaning the reels and its parts. Brake Cleaner spray on bearings. It doesn't stink like Carburetor cleaner and it dries fast.
Quote from: handi2 on January 02, 2021, 05:54:32 PM
My cleaning solvent is Mineral Spirits in an old Big Red parts washer. I use it for cleaning the reels and its parts. Brake Cleaner spray on bearings. It doesn't stink like Carburetor cleaner and it dries fast.
The chemical compatibility page is a bit wacky on the ingredient in CRC Brake Part Cleaner. The same chemical can go by two different names -- one is listed as excellent compatibility with nylon and the other is listed as fair. It is supposed to be the same chemical. Contact time may be so short it wouldn't matter anyway.
By chance, I have two identical nylon washers, two small jars, acetone and 91% Isopropyl. I think I will see what a week's worth of soaking will do in each. Acetone is supposed to compatible with nylon while Isopropyl is not.
I also have about a hundred new $0.10 Zebco 33 bearings, so I might as well put one in each jar.
Never had a bit of problem soaking nylon bearings, washers or bushings in lacquer thinner or acetone.
My go to degreaser for anodized, painted and/or plastic parts is Original GOOP Hand Cleaner (no pumice). It does a good job, especially with a little brush persuasion, then a warm water Dawn bath.
Quote from: Rancanfish on January 02, 2021, 04:52:28 PM
I use what Sal suggested to me quite awhile ago. Paslode Electronic tool cleaner from Home Depot. Made for cleaning all our battery drills, etc. No harm to plastic, no foul odor, not deadly to my liver. It's a spray so I do bearings with it too.
Sal taught everyone something.
I like the Paslode to !! Sal turned me on to it a few years ago. If you google it you can find some cheap prices if you buy 4 cans. John Taylor
Kerosene is what I use to clean / degrease.
Polar and non-polar liquids are not easy to describe. Better to look it up where you can see diagrams.
The saying "like dissolves like" means that a non-polar solvent is best to dissolve a non-polar substance and polar solvents are best for dissolving polar substances.
Alcohol, ammonia and anything dissolved in water is probably polar. Hydrocarbon liquids like acetone, naphtha, mineral spirits, kerosene, gasoline, etc. are non-polar and so is grease, oil, fat and other organic stuff. Oil and water do not mix because oil is non-polar and water is polar.
Soap molecules have a polar end and a non-polar end. So, soap dissolves in water and also dissolves hydrocarbons, grease, fat, etc.
One thing that has always bothered me is that alcohols usually contain water and they absorb water from the air. Vinegar is mostly water. Ammonia is a gas that is dissolved in water so it can be handled. Water readily dissolves into soap. Solvents with water evaporate slowly. Hydrocarbon solvents do not and can not contain water, are more volatile and evaporate quickly. So, if you use a polar solvent are you more likely to leave moisture behind inside the reel?
about all i've ever needed are wd-40 and a toothbrush, then wipe the external parts off with alcohol, then penn reel oil and blue grease on the internals. my reels come apart for cleaning and lube once a year, so this works well for me. i think most of you guys are using conventionals in salt water, though. my only salt water reels are a 704z and a 706z.
Steve I think your description of polar vs. non polar was really good and pretty spot on, especially bringing polarity of soap into the equation (and then we get into those other words like hydrophobic or hydrophyllic). The other thing with a lot of chemical solvents that can make them tricky - VOC's (Volatile Organic Compounds). Oversimplified - these are the fumes that you are breathing that are usually not good for you (or the environment, but let's focus on our own health first!). Things like soap, Simple Green, Dawn, etc have minimal VOC. Further up in this thread someone mentioned MEK (heck of a solvent - and a HUGE producer of VOC!). Acetone (nail polish remover) is another one. You don't want to be using these things in your basement or an enclosed area (or at all, if you can avoid them). - john
Agreed John. If you want the speed and convenience of using something more volatile then you have to get out the good respirator and ventilation. There's no free lunch.
Having used alcohol, wd40, and acetone previously I'm coming to find, randomly enough, that I really the speed of the results i get using charcoal lighter fluid. I tried it one day when I had nothing else on hand, and I keep going back to it.
There's nothing wrong with that. It is usually mineral spirits. I've heard of alcohol based lighter fluid but never seen or used any.
Quote from: Brewcrafter on February 04, 2021, 04:41:14 AM
Things like soap, Simple Green, Dawn, etc have minimal VOC. Further up in this thread someone mentioned MEK (heck of a solvent - and a HUGE producer of VOC!). Acetone (nail polish remover) is another one. You don't want to be using these things in your basement or an enclosed area (or at all, if you can avoid them). - john
An interesting take. For me, Simple Green, Pine-Sol, ammonia and similar odorized cleaners, and women's perfume, give me an instant headache, plug my sinuses and swell my throat. I have, for years, in my unventilated 10' x 12' office/reel room, used lacquer thinner and straight acetone carefully with no serious adverse affects other than getting a little light headed once in awhile when my nose is too close to the parts/thinner jar. While my wife may argue somewhat with this :D, my mind still functions as it should, and my lungs still function over 95% even though I smoked for 45 years. Knowing how to use a product is the key factor, not being afraid of it. I don't leave the can open for any extended length of time, I put a lid on the thinner jar immediately & keep it closed until I remove each part to dry & burnish/polish them. Yes, there are fumes and a smell but but if appropriate cautions are taken it ain't going to kill or make a vegetable out of you.
The worst I came across is Ardent Reel Kleen Degreaser. The odour is super strong. Don't even like using it outdoors.