Please post your questions about the chronological history of this reel in this thread.
Does anyone know what the reverse-stamped numbers (last photo) in both side-plates refer to? Perhaps a mold number, production number, or limited edition number three-of-three?.. ;)...In any case, the old 350 is one of my favorite reels to work on; Something about all those dogs and gears working together to lay the line in perfect harmony..
(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c100/unchained_colors/Mobile%20Uploads/20160421_153402.jpg) (http://s25.photobucket.com/user/unchained_colors/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20160421_153402.jpg.html)
(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c100/unchained_colors/Mobile%20Uploads/20160419_174448.jpg) (http://s25.photobucket.com/user/unchained_colors/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20160419_174448.jpg.html)
(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c100/unchained_colors/Mobile%20Uploads/20160419_174503.jpg) (http://s25.photobucket.com/user/unchained_colors/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20160419_174503.jpg.html)
(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c100/unchained_colors/Mobile%20Uploads/20160419_190335.jpg) (http://s25.photobucket.com/user/unchained_colors/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20160419_190335.jpg.html)
Chad
QuoteDoes anyone know what the reverse-stamped numbers (last photo) in both side-plates refer to? Perhaps a mold number, production number, or limited edition number three-of-three?.. Wink
Usually those numbers were known as Assembly Numbers, they kept like parts from different reels with each other. You should take notice if the next one you pull apart has the same number or if it has changed. Beautiful job on that 350 Leveline!
Thanks for the compliment Mike. That makes perfect sense they would be called Assembly Numbers. It will be interesting to see if a change in number corresponds to any changes that were made in the reel, over time.
When you look at how that level line mechanism was designed it's not hard to believe that the first reel makers were clock makers....
Sid
QuoteWhen you look at how that level line mechanism was designed it's not hard to believe that the first reel makers were clock makers....
I believe that the field of study that Otto Henze apprenticed in Germany was Small Instrument Maker. He applied that German apprenticeship in the fishing reel industry when he arrived in the USA.
Here's a video of the internals. How well do they work at spooling line? Does the line have to be under a lot of tension for it to be moved over the bar properly?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rViv33EmoWE
Ruffy--Thanks for that video of the Leveline in action--a very stout mechanism as far as level-winds go.
As for line-lay, the line needs to have constant tension during the retrieve--but does not need to be under a great deal of strain.
The reel also seems to work at its best with the stripper guide placed further away than usual.
If I remember right, Penn had a recommended stripper-guide spacing to be used with the 350 Leveline.
I've only used these reels for surf-casting applications, and for that they work great--usually with 30-40lb. mono and 4-7oz. sinker.
Casting went from so-so to very decent, once I swapped in the aluminum spool from a Surfmaster 200. (Beachmaster 155 will work too).
The only downside is that the farther you cast, the more you'll have to crank when it comes time to retrieve your rig. (Slow ratio)...;)
Chad
I was always sort of amazed at the long production run of the Leveline 350 ( 1954 to 1993 ). When I look at this reel I see a body too big for the spool used in it, a over complicated sort of strange level wind mechanism ( although it is very cool design ), slow retrieve speed and an odd cross bar arrangement. I hardy ever see them in use anywhere. I never target them for a resale item because they have a bad potential for any kind of mark up.
They are certainly interesting, in the same vein as the Ocean City Far Kast reels. I just never understood their long life span
I have only seen one of these reels but today I was given one. It will gather dust on the shelf with my other special Penn's.
I got myself one a month ago, hard to resist they're so cheap ::) was intrigued how they worked.Not sure what to do with it yet ::) Had a brainstorm that quickly dissipate , I have an aluminum spool for it,
(http://i717.photobucket.com/albums/ww177/Marc1956/20160505_164317_zpsduqcodjy.jpg) (http://s717.photobucket.com/user/Marc1956/media/20160505_164317_zpsduqcodjy.jpg.html)
I swear a couple years ago a reel company was advertising that levelwind system on their reels but can't remember who ???
Marc..
Thank you for the photos Chad and Ruffy. I remember those reels in the catalog from back in the day but nobody in our fishing community had one and I never saw the guts before. It's sort of impressive as it appears there are two innovations: no levelwind guide/wire to slow down the line and the levelwind disengages during the cast. On the down side, the levelwind bar had to be placed high on the frame in order to work and that would slow it down some. It may have benefitted from the squidder bearings too. Perhaps it persisted for so long because Penn just could not believe they were not catching on.
-steve
I have never cast my 350...but I have fiddled around with winding line on it...and mine winds line as level as any reel I've ever used. I would have to think casting should be pretty good, even though the levelwind bar is high, line should roll right across it. What really slows down most levelwind reels is the non-disengaging system. Most of the "drag" is produced turning all those gears and the worm. I just love the sound of these reels when turning the handle. For catfishing in rivers, this reel has a lot of positives, but the downfall is that darn tiny #5-155 gear. You can get the exact same power in a 109/Peerless 9...a much lighter/easier to use package.
I'd have to say this reel sold better than we're thinking, after all, look at how many are around today. Here's a pic of my 350. 8)
Alan had one that I was playing with 4 years ago, and he explained how it worked. Very cool reel. Saw another one at a garage sale at the storage sheds down the street from Lee's workshop or was it that antique shop.... Still very cool reel.
I still see them occasionally being used to troll for salmon. They are neat reels but just a 209 with a funny level wind mechanism.
Quote from: Marcq on May 05, 2016, 11:51:11 PM
I swear a couple years ago a reel company was advertising that levelwind system on their reels but can't remember who ???
Marc..
The Olympic Dohzuki 500 Wide III has what appears to be the same leveline mechanism.
This post prompted me to dig out the Leveline 350 that a neighbor gave me last year. I had put it away in the garage and forgot about it. It looks very cruddy but I think it will clean up nicely.
(http://i1162.photobucket.com/albums/q523/rumbum01/P1010638_zpsucgkq7rz.jpg)
Quote from: George4741 on July 27, 2016, 06:14:22 AM
Quote from: Marcq on May 05, 2016, 11:51:11 PM
I swear a couple years ago a reel company was advertising that levelwind system on their reels but can't remember who ???
Marc..
The Olympic Dohzuki 500 Wide III has what appears to be the same leveline mechanism.
This post prompted me to dig out the Leveline 350 that a neighbor gave me last year. I had put it away in the garage and forgot about it. It looks very cruddy but I think it will clean up nicely.
(http://i1162.photobucket.com/albums/q523/rumbum01/P1010638_zpsucgkq7rz.jpg)
Under all the dirt, that reel doesn't look too bad. Decent screw-heads and only a speckling of surface corrosion.
Main thing on these reels seems to be the (discontinued) spiral bar your line runs over. Better to shelf the reel should any corrosion there be of the rough and pitted type; yours looks fine from what I see.
chad
Quote from: George4741 on July 27, 2016, 06:14:22 AM
The Olympic Dohzuki 500 Wide III has what appears to be the same leveline mechanism.
I googled that Olympic and sho' 'nuff it looks real familiar.
I have a few NOS 350 parts specific to the Level Line 350.
Sideplates, rings, gears, dogs, spiral bars, ratchets, etc..
Best,
Fred
Quote from: mo65 on July 27, 2016, 03:13:24 PM
Quote from: George4741 on July 27, 2016, 06:14:22 AM
The Olympic Dohzuki 500 Wide III has what appears to be the same leveline mechanism.
I googled that Olympic and sho' 'nuff it looks real familiar.
It appears that Olympic made several different models with the leveline mechanism.
Quote from: foakes on July 27, 2016, 03:31:24 PM
I have a few NOS 350 parts specific to the Level Line 350.
Sideplates, rings, gears, dogs, spiral bars, ratchets, etc..
Best,
Fred
Thank you, Fred, that is good info for those that want to get their 350 working again.
George
Here's my cherry NIB beauty:
(http://i1381.photobucket.com/albums/ah207/ladyaialaAiala/P1000844_zpslzmcnnqb.jpg)
I've always been intrigued by this reel, and wouldn't mind fishing it someday (I even have an aluminum spool socked away) but for the foreseeable future I guess she's destined for Shelfiedom. :-\
~A~
A few years ago, someone came out with a bass bait casting reel with the same one leveling system. I have no idea how successful it was and have never actually seen one myself.
Quote from: akfish on July 29, 2016, 09:35:15 PM
A few years ago, someone came out with a bass bait casting reel with the same leveling system.
I almost posted this same comment akfish but I can't remember who it was either. :D
Aiala, that 350 just raised the bar! Very, very nice! :o
I too have one a 350 like new in the box. Cool reels.
That Olympic reel looks crazy!!
I have a 350 in excellent condition, plan on using it this year. I'm keeping my eyes open for a NOS one, like the ones pictured on this thread.
A very cool old reel.
Is the aluminum spool a worthy upgrade, and which larger size handle would fit on this reel?
Thanks,
Tristan
24-66 handle would be my preference. about an inch longer than the stock which is I think 24-155.
Quote from: tristan on November 21, 2016, 10:53:08 PM
Is the aluminum spool a worthy upgrade, and which larger size handle would fit on this reel?
Thanks,
Tristan
If you plan on doing much casting, then the aluminum spool will perform the best--being that it is light, holds up to mono, and allows the reel to be magged. For counterbalanced handles I use the aforementioned 24-66. You could go even larger with a 24-49 (or 24-55/56), but on the Leveline 24-66 strikes a good balance between speed and cranking power..imho
yup. I don't think the gears / drag / levelwind warrant a power handle without tearing stuff up.
Jumping on this band wagon ;) I was gifted this very cool factory plate...see comment below...
"The plate is reversed because it was used as the master for the mold plug. We had a machine here called an pantograph. A stilus was traced over a pattern to drive an engraving tool. The scale could be adjusted so the engraving on the plug could be made smaller than the engraving on the pattern. It also had the ability to trace along a contour so side plates could be engraved that did not have flat surfaces."
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4313/35868382290_7d9d8dfac5_z.jpg)
[url=https://flic.kr/p/VYKCnC](https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4319/35429144654_8eb1279889_z.jpg)
So I am still on a hunt to see if any 350's had the 'No' (#) in front of the 350. In my short time scouring I haven't found any. If there are that would mean there are three different side plates the 350.
But I did happen upon this NOS 350 and got it for $36 shipped, I was very happy. I love the polished plates...since this came straight out of the box, never fished and never opened I'll assume it was from the factory. Interesting...
(https://flic.kr/p/WDyQqj)
I have 13 loose 350 side-plates -- 8 new -- 5 used -- 10 are tailplates -- none have the "No." -- just the model number of 350.
Best,
Fred
These are really cool reels and sound like a ticking clock as you use them.....Checked my stock, one complete reel with polished plates with the "No350" and a loose plate with a matt finish with just the "350".....Bill
Checked mine, just has a 350 on the tail plate without the "No".
Sid
Bill - Could you take a picture and post it when you get a chance of the 'No 350' side plate? I'd appreciate it greatly!
Dan, ask and ye shall receive:
"350" matt plate
(http://i.imgur.com/R5Qz2fq.jpg)
"No 350" polished plate
(http://i.imgur.com/LC2PTC5.jpg)
Bill ;)
I have a polished plate with just 350. I assumed the matte finish was just weathered. Was it designed that way?
Bill - Did the one that said No350 have the plastic spool as seen in the background of the first photo? At least it looks plastic with the rounded edge...Thanks a million! I'm now on the hunt for one with the No350! So, for the record there are three known left side plates, the other shows the actual Pat. #, not just the Pat. word...I'll post a photo later on.
Crap, now I got to go check mines....Bill, what parts did I send you? Most of the rest of that reel is around somewhere. I borrowed some guts for a Squidder build that could easily be replaced; gears, etc. but all the 350-specific stuff is there except what you needed.
Dan, "No350" has a plastic spool
John, you sent the "350" plates and level wind bar.......Bill
Bill and I ended up doing a straight swap and I'm tickled to have a reel that matches the engraving plate. I'll take a picture in the next night or two with a little better lighting.
Bill - This butterscotch handle is really pretty, there is a little bite of translucency in a few places...very neat. Just enough patina to show it was loved but cared for...that's how I like my reels ;D
I got one of these Leveline 350 a little over a week ago and got it apart, cleaned, and back together today. I think everything internally was there, but it was so nasty inside it took a while to find one of the dog springs.
Nothing complicated with this reel, a couple of extra dogs and springs, one gear, a cam, and the spiral bar.
Question: Does the spiral bar on average make one revolution per 25 cranks of the handle? From the video that looks about right.
I'm not about to go counting rpm on mine but wow you did a great job clearing out that hogshead of grease. Nice work sir!!!
John
Yes, you really did a fine job on that old 350, Chester!
At first glace of the pic with all of the black grease — I thought for a moment that the Exxon Valdez ran aground again...
Good to get that axle grease out of there.
Best,
Fred
Does anyone actually use this reel to fish? If so, please give some details.
I have been thinking of setting one up for medium-depth (about 200 ft) bottom-fishing. Besides putting in a 5-stack BY drag kit, what else can I do to enhance this reel? I haven't seen anyone customize one yet on this site. Could it come close to performing against a 320GTi? Maybe it is not worth the effort for practical use (and I don't do shelfies.) Seems to me that the level-lining mechanism has potential to hold up well in a hard fight versus regular worm-bar level-wind reels. I've seen a guy use one for surf-sharking up to 5-6 footers.
P.S. Found this thread on another site: http://www.stripersonline.com/surftalk/topic/609320-penn-350-leveline-upgradequestions/
Quote from: Decker on April 12, 2018, 01:19:03 PM
I have been thinking of setting one up for medium-depth (about 200 ft) bottom-fishing. Besides putting in a 5-stack BY drag kit, what else can I do to enhance this reel? I haven't seen anyone customize one yet on this site. Could it come close to performing against a 320GTi? Maybe it is not worth the effort for practical use (and I don't do shelfies.) Seems to me that the level-lining mechanism has potential to hold up well in a hard fight versus regular worm-bar level-wind reels. I've see a guy use one for surf-sharking up to 5-6 footers.
The line leveling mechanism works great on these reels Joe, unfortunately, the downfall is the tiny #5-155 gearing. No BY 5-stack kit available for this gear, but with nice lapped metals and new carbon fiber the 3-stack should yield 10-12lbs. smooth drag if that's enough for your application. It's a 3:1 ratio by the way. I've never used my 350, but I know a few guys who like them. 8)
I had a few 209/309 type that I took apart and fixed up for friends over the years
just see what was under the hood. With the dime size drags and level wind,
I'm not sure you'd want to fish deep or put to much pressure on them.
Just my opinion. I can see it as a trolling reel for schoolie striper or a lake
reel for catfish or trout. The plastic gear on the left side or pawl are the first to go.
These make great fresh water reels. Again, JMO.
**Opps, sorry. I see now this was a 350. I'm unsure if the guts are the same as the 209/309 class.
-gary
Quote from: mo65 on April 12, 2018, 03:42:54 PM
The line leveling mechanism works great on these reels Joe, unfortunately, the downfall is the tiny #5-155 gearing. No BY 5-stack kit available for this gear, but with nice lapped metals and new carbon fiber the 3-stack should yield 10-12lbs. smooth drag if that's enough for your application. It's a 3:1 ratio by the way. I've never used my 350, but I know a few guys who like them. 8)
Right you are, Mo. No BY stack, but 10-12 would do. Also, about the main gear... it didn't initially occur to me but, it would be impossible to put in a larger main given that it also drives the level-line spiral.
The pic below is not mine, but really interesting. Check out the two additional dogs (no room for double-dogging).
(http://i689.photobucket.com/albums/vv251/bl_lb/IMG_0046.jpg)
Yep...there's a lot going on inside that headplate. From experience I can tell you some of the dog springs are not available, but never fear, a spring from a Bic lighter can be cut to slide right into place! 8)
Rather than start anew, I'll add to this one. Just about everything you need to know about collecting the variations of this model is mentioned....none of which I knew until now.
I got my first one today. I have been looking to add this model and passed up many on the bay because shipping just threw the reel out of any reasonable price. A buddy called and had one waiting for me just a couple of miles away.
A bit of a challenge to reassemble. Swinging the bridge over the wide ring while keeping the A/R dog flat and in place, ready for the spring cost me two flung springs. >:(
Noted that the belleville washer was inside between the top drag washer and the sleeve. Interesting that it's mostly a 155 but calls for a 200 pinion. Took a close up of "the brain".
I DIDN'T need to know there are THREE variations. What a rabbit hole! Neat reel.
Nice find, good job, it looks great, cheers Don.
Thanks! This model is what it is. You can't do much to it internally that would substantially increase performance. It appears it wasn't available as a lefty...which would be understandable.
I think the collector would want to get a plastic spool and, at least, get the scarce side plate variant and display these with the reel.
This is such an interesting reel to me but seems so drag-limited on a design that should in theory be more drag friendly than other levelwind designs.
Are there any other penn reels with gears of similar size, but allow for bigger drag disks?
These reels are unique, as well as misunderstood in today's angling world of high drag numbers and letting the reel do all of the work (instead of sharing the fight with the anglers skill and rod-handling ability).
The LW mechanism parts are very tough and similar to components inside of a watch.
About the only improvement on these, if planning on fishing, would be Cal's greased CF's, SS drag discs, an under gear washer of CF or Delrin, and a power handle like one of Alan's.
They operate very well when used as designed.
It is a reel that had a short production life because it was a little strange —- and folks couldn't get used to it since they either were comfortable just cranking a conventional —- or they liked the levelwind feature in the 209 & 309 —- even though the 350 would last forever —- and the L/W mechanism parts in the 209 & 309 were much weaker.
Nice job!
Best, Fred
The problem with the Leveline is that it was a wide frame marketed for surfcasting but it did not cast very well. The line has to put tension on the spiral thing for it to lay line. To get constant tension they moved the spiral thing up high so the line had to rub on it. The line rubbing on the spiral thing reduces casting distance. It's a good design if you want a wide-frame reel for trolling.
I would argue its less of them being misunderstood, more a case of them being less-well-suited for the types of mods we tend to do on other penn reels. A jigmaster will do just fine, fished within its stock design limits. It'll also do just fine with a few mods doing double the load it was designed for.
This is not a modern reel. As such its not really valid to compare it to modern reels. But it just seems like the levelwind mechanism is the weak point on most reels with a level wind. The common theme is most level winds can't handle more than about 15# cranking load. This seems like an innovative way to massively strengthen the mechanism and simultaneously removing the easiest way for it to remove a finger. But it doesn't utilize that strength of design, and is built of components that don't allow for us modifying it to utilize that strength.
So yeah I guess misunderstood is a good word. I don't understand why such an opportunity would be wasted.
But listening to Steve, it sounds like it didn't work as well as it could have nor did it sell well enough for an updated version to appear. Oh well, still an interesting reel.
My brief experience with mine is that you gotta put a little extra effort into getting good line-lay. Maybe too much for people (like me) that have alota other stuff going-on while fishing...
Yep, bought one, played with it a bit, sold it.
Here is the one I have
I can definitely see the clock makers mind in this reel. I worked for Simplex Time Recorder and saw many mechanical clocks. Many of us might confess that we "punched in" to start our work day.
For me, this model represents a specific design that we won't see again. Adding it to the collection seemed necessary. 8)
Yeah. The weak area on this reel for bigger fish will be the stock drag system. Be really cool to get see through plates for one. Salesman's sample?
I thought I traded a nice 349 for a so so 350. My end of the trade went smooth, the other end never shipped the reel. Fortunately the thief is no longer here.
Hard luck Lee, the scum of the earth, I would rather have the 349 anyday, cheers Don.
I have over a dozen 349s, no 350s. Even if I got the 350 he would have got the good end of the deal but chose to be a turd.
The Penn 350 is a very interesting reel. Can you imagine if it came with Jigmaster main gear and pinion? ::)
@Keta. I am sorry to hear about this ordure character. May he or she always lose fish and expensive tackles. >:(
By the way what happened to Sid that started this thread?
Last I heard from Sid he was busy in his practice (dentist) and is heavyweight in ORCA; he is, or at least was, an officer or editor I think.
Lee, you want a 350 if I have one around? I think I pirated some parts off one to build out a Squidder or 200, but may have another in a tote somewhere.
John
Sid is a Veterinarian.
He might be a dentist also.
That would be impressive!
Best, Fred
I stand corrected! Thanks Fred!
Could be wrong, but Sid, an excellent photographer, was gonna make us a calendar featuring some our best reel creations. Bunch of trouble about he wanted those reels sent to him, to do the pictures his way, instead of using pictures taken by members. Too many were understandably reluctant to do so. That's just what I remember before he stopped posting. Please correct if I'm wrong.
I remember talk of a calendar but no details. He's in good standing last I saw. Met him on the Penn plant tour with Sal, and he later did me a real solid on a parts payback. I had sent him a NOS 65 spool in-box he was looking, that I'd had for 15 years and clearly wasn't in need of. A while later he came back with a VGC 9/0 chrome spool I needed, where he had swapped in a period correct one in a restoration. The 700 yards of Ande I put on it didn't care what year it was made.