Have my 2091A and my Penn 705 out comparing them. Similar size. Similar build. Shakespeare is actually smoother than the Penn. Just curious as to why the 700 series Penns became so popular in comparison to the Shakespeare's. Nothing I can see that would make the Penn better than the Shakespeare. What am I missing?
Just curious.
The old Shakes Sea Wonders and the Penn greenies were very comparable.
Both excellent and HD reels.
Best,
Fred
I've never owned a Penn spinning reel so I can't really answer that one. But here in Tennessee, freshwater fishing only of course, the Shakespeare has always been overwhelmingly more popular than Penn.
In comparing why the Penn is overwhelmingly more popular probably boils down to parts availability and salt anglers used to the Penns.
Got to remember, while the Shakes are a high quality and well made salt water spinner — the dealer service network and reputation of Penn products was and still is legendary.
These two reels were used primarily by Salt Surf fishermen. For heavy stripers up and down the East Coast, Drum and Reds in the Gulf, salmon, stripers, perch, and other species on the West Coast.
The nature of surf fishing in salt requires constant maintenance and some parts replacement from time to time due to the fishing conditions. Good salt anglers know this and devote time to keeping their arsenal in ready condition.
An angler could visit his local tackle shop to get any parts needed for the Penn — which were basically the same for many decades — and are still readily available today.
I still have around 40 pre-made kits containing the 11 most commonly replaced parts in the large 700 - 707 series of Penn spinners.
The same 11 parts on a Shakes Sea Wonder are nearly impossible to find used, let alone new.
Familiarity, confidence, service, and repairability — along with solid marketing is possibly the only difference.
And it is a major advantage.
IMO.
Best,
Fred
The Penn 716 can take some pretty extreme stuff. Dunk it in the ocean, forget to wash it off and it will usually work the same a couple of weeks later. But, I keep looking at the small DAM, Shakespeare, Alcedo, etc wondering why they wouldn't take the same abuse. Would anyone care to speculate what their weak link is?
-steve
Like Fred said...parts availability is everything. If you bust a Penn...there are parts out there. The Shakespeare will require a search for a donor. Realistically though, if you buy either reel in good working order and properly service it, it ain't gonna need any parts.
No Shakespeare here so can't compare.
Sal
Just as I thought. Don't understand why Shakespeare did not do as Penn on marketing and service. From what I can see, they had a winner with the 2091A. Seems to be as well built as a Penn and it is definitely smoother. It is at least as smooth as my 750ss's.
Guess what I am saying is Shakespeare missed the boat here. Or so it seems.
I tend to go the donor reel route anyway and always try to buy two. Most old reels that were popular in their day and are good enough to use but not good enough for a collection are fairly inexpensive.
I like 'em small and those micro Shakespeare and DAM are looking pretty good.
-steve
I restored a 2091A for my dad not long ago. As an experiment to see how free I could make it, I didn't grease the bearing, I used CorrosionX HD. Even with it's steel main and pinion it was still pretty smooth. Shakespeare seems to be the only manufacturer of these over-built spinning reels to use steel on both gears. Usually a bronze/steel or brass/steel set like Penn and DAM Quick use is smoother, but here is Shakespeare pulling off a steel/steel pairing and making it smoother? Interesting... 8)
Some of it has to do with regional preference and notoriety. I know that Penn spinners were not a driving force in this part of the country until around 1990. You hardly ever see a green Penn in this neck-of-the-woods. Penn was thought of as big water reels. Shakespeare was pretty popular in this area until the Cardinals came along. Then, in the early '70s when Shakespeare cheapened their quality to be more competitive and went exclusively with KMart, that was the beginning of their demise. The charcoal gray models from the late '50s and early '60s were probably Shakespeare's highest quality spinning reels, and the 2068 was clearly the best spinning reel they ever made. They ended up being a casualty of the big business Asian push of the late '70s & early '80s. It's a shame because their USA made reels from the late '50s through the late '70s were good quality reels.
Quote from: Midway Tommy on February 05, 2018, 01:46:08 AM
...You hardly ever see a green Penn in this neck-of-the-woods. Penn was thought of as big water reels....
There's an online article about the "best" older ultralight spinning reels, and if I remember the line on the Penns, it was that their small reels look & felt like a saltwater reel & not an ultralight.
Frank
Tommy, only spinning reel I ever saw around here growing up was a Mitchell 300. I am sure there were others, but in my small circle Mitchell was it. In fact, I just saw my first Penn Greenie a couple of years ago. And probably would never had noticed them if one of my daughters hadn't settled in the Pensacola area.
Not many people around even used spinners when I was young. Serious fishermen used baitcasters. Nearly everyone else used a spin cast. Zebco was (and still is) very popular. So I was sort of an outcast for using a spinner.
Quote from: Chuck750ss on February 05, 2018, 11:49:56 AM
Tommy, only spinning reel I ever saw around here growing up was a Mitchell 300. I am sure there were others, but in my small circle Mitchell was it. In fact, I just saw my first Penn Greenie a couple of years ago. And probably would never had noticed them if one of my daughters hadn't settled in the Pensacola area.
Not many people around even used spinners when I was young. Serious fishermen used baitcasters. Nearly everyone else used a spin cast. Zebco was (and still is) very popular. So I was sort of an outcast for using a spinner.
I don't think I've ever seen a Penn Greenie, :o let alone touch one. If I ever saw one, it had to be in Panama City Beach, Daytona, or Ormond Beach, I've fished those piers maybe a dozen times. That's my extent of salt water fishing.
I saw a fellow fishing a Penn Slammer from shore locally at the dam a couple years ago and was impressed. He could outcast everybody there striper fishing, probably 120+ yards with a 2 oz jig. I was observant and asked what type of line he was using, 15 lb Stren braid. He had about $500 tied up in rod, reel, and line Other than that, the only Penns I recall seeing in my neck-of-the-woods were the Peerless No. 9 and the 209.
Those Penn Greenies are pretty reels, I just haven't come across a deal yet. Most of those online even if scuffed, scratched, and medallion missing cost as much as 2 or 3 Royal Maroon Shakespeares in better shape.
Here in Philadelphia Penn competed with Ocean City for salt water use. Both reels made in Philadelphia. When Tru Temper bought out Ocean City, Ocean City slowly disappeared from the market place. The only source for Ocean City Parts was John Schmidts at Kensington & Indiana. He also carryed Penn parts and Penn was backed up by the factory service at the plant.
Garcia-Mitchell was also a popular spinning reel. I bought my Garcia-Mitchell 300 were I worked, S Kliens at Cottman & Roosevelt Blvd only because Penn did not make a small fresh water reel.
At one time I had a huge collection of spinning reels. Mostly NIB.
I had all the burgundy colored Shakespeare Sea Wonder reels. They are a fine strong reel. 3 of them had factory manual bails. They made some huge ones.
Keith
Quote from: handi2 on March 19, 2018, 11:31:43 PM
At one time I had a huge collection of spinning reels. Mostly NIB.
I had all the burgundy colored Shakespeare Sea Wonder reels. They are a fine strong reel. 3 of them had factory manual bails. They made some huge ones.
Keith
Keith, do all the bigger Sea Wonder reels have metal spools? I knew some of the later, smaller 2062 spools were changed to plastic.
With all these machinists drilling, slotting, and customizing Penn Spinfishers and some of the larger DAM Quicks I'm surprised they're not doing the same with the bigger Royal Maroons.
[
Keith
[/quote]Keith, do all the bigger Sea Wonder reels have metal spools? I knew some of the later, smaller 2062 spools were changed to plastic.
With all these machinists drilling, slotting, and customizing Penn Spinfishers and some of the larger DAM Quicks I'm surprised they're not doing the same with the bigger Royal Maroons.
[/quote]
My 2081,2091 and 2091-A all are metal.
As to pimping the reels.... millennials have not "discovered " the big Shakespeare's yet. When they do, look out! ;D (don't take that personal. I like looking at what some of those young ones are doing with the Penns)
Quote from: Chuck750ss on March 20, 2018, 01:25:08 AM
My 2081,2091 and 2091-A all are metal.
As to pimping the reels.... millennials have not "discovered " the big Shakespeare's yet. When they do, look out! ;D (don't take that personal. I like looking at what some of those young ones are doing with the Penns)
Yep, most of those pimped out Penns are cool. Actually much better looking than the Van Staals.
I'm a purist so every time I see one of them I cringe, but what the heck, if they're beat up & rashed those guys might as well pretty them up a little and use them. They'll never have any collector value, and neither will repaints. but the fish could care less. ;)
A lot of people ooh & awe over the Royal Maroons but really their predecessor charcoal gray 2064, 65, 68, 70, 80 & 90s are probably even a little bit better, especially the 2068. It was by far the best spinning reel Shakespeare ever made. The only drawback to the grays was they didn't make an UL. Gray & Maroon spools interchange & both have the 6 disc drag. I've got at least one of each, Grays & Maroons, and there's not a lot of difference until you get to the plastic spools & last version of the Maroons when Shakespeare eventually cheapened them up.
Quote from: oc1 on February 04, 2018, 08:24:50 AM
The Penn 716 can take some pretty extreme stuff. Dunk it in the ocean, forget to wash it off and it will usually work the same a couple of weeks later. But, I keep looking at the small DAM, Shakespeare, Alcedo, etc wondering why they wouldn't take the same abuse. Would anyone care to speculate what their weak link is?
-steve
Good question. Quality anodizing for the penn? Better quality or diffrent type of metal used? Better drainage?
Quote from: Midway Tommy on March 20, 2018, 03:39:38 AM
A lot of people ooh & awe over the Royal Maroons but really their predecessor charcoal gray 2064, 65, 68, 70, 80 & 90s are probably even a little bit better, especially the 2068. It was by far the best spinning reel Shakespeare ever made. The only drawback to the grays was they didn't make an UL.
Yep, been checking prices on those grey ones for a while, there is one on ebay in mediocre to fair condition for $300. :o
Quote from: festus on March 20, 2018, 03:51:44 PM
Quote from: Midway Tommy on March 20, 2018, 03:39:38 AM
A lot of people ooh & awe over the Royal Maroons but really their predecessor charcoal gray 2064, 65, 68, 70, 80 & 90s are probably even a little bit better, especially the 2068. It was by far the best spinning reel Shakespeare ever made. The only drawback to the grays was they didn't make an UL.
Yep, been checking prices on those grey ones for a while, there is one on ebay in mediocre to fair condition for $300. :o
Chester,
You're looking in the wrong places, then. I've never paid over $40 for a gray or maroon NIB. No box, in excellent condition, is usually between $10 & 20 plus shipping & I try to keep shipping around $8 max. Patience is the key. The 2064 & 2065 are the exact same reel, they just changed the last number mid stream.
I've got a salesman sample in a bag that I took apart a couple of years ago to clean and haven't put back together yet. :o This reminded me that I need to do that one these days. ;)
Quote from: Midway Tommy on March 20, 2018, 03:39:38 AM
... I've got at least one of each, Grays & Maroons, ....
That's a nice collection, Tommy, of these often overlooked reels.
Frank
Quote from: Midway Tommy on March 20, 2018, 04:23:48 PM
Chester,
You're looking in the wrong places, then. I've never paid over $40 for a gray or maroon NIB. No box, in excellent condition, is usually between $10 & 20 plus shipping & I try to keep shipping around $8 max. Patience is the key. The 2064 & 2065 are the exact same reel, they just changed the last number mid stream.
I've got a salesman sample in a bag that I took apart a couple of years ago to clean and haven't put back together yet. :o This reminded me that I need to do that one these days. ;)
Yep, I chuckle at some of these prices. Last summer I got good deals on Mitchell 300 ($3each), Abu 4600 & 5000 ($8 ea), a couple DAM Quicks for $8, Shimano Bantams for $4, and any reel missing a handle or spool was free at a yard sale. It took 6 months of looking to find a decent deal on a DAM 110 and 7 months to find a couple of Shakes 2052. Slim pickings on vintage reels around here, I have two friends who run tackle stores/bait shops and they're still looking for me. My sister runs an auction in Knoxville, but every time she send me pics of reels they're usually junk I'm not interested in.
Don't think I've ever seen a schematic for the charcoal Shakespeares.