Hello everyone!
I'm a new member and I really enjoy fishing vintage light/ultralight spinning reels. I wasn't 100% sure where to put this so if it needs to be moved to a different section, please do so.
I looked quite a bit around the internet and never found anything that quite covered what I was curious about. Most vintage spinning reels I have encountered all suffer from a similar problem, poor balancing of the rotor assembly. This imbalance causes the reel to wobble while cranking, some worse than others. Some reels I have used extra material cast into the rotors to help (I assume) with balancing the rotor...none of them are balanced well. I have other reels that the manufacturers never even attempted to balance the rotors in any way, shape or form.
Some may find the rotor imbalances not to be a problem. I use my old reels and I try to make them a little nicer to use. I came up with a way to balance older rotors which worked very well in my first attempt and thought I would share what I came up with. The process can easily be undone should you ever want to return the rotor to its original state. My first attempt to balance a rotor was on a reel I bought recently and have been working on, a Shakespeare 2052. The more I work on it the more I am liking the reel as a user.
This method may not work for every reel. If you have some old user reels that you wish were a little smoother this may be the ticket.
If you like this sort of thing, subscribe to my YouTube channel so you will be notified as I put out new content.
If anyone has any feedback on this rotor balancing idea I came up with I would love to hear it. I am sure there are other ways to do it, someone may have a better way forward!
https://youtu.be/TmxP-5jHS7k
Do you think melting the lead right inside the rotor would damage it? It would be a perfect fit.
Quote from: nelz on April 25, 2017, 03:21:06 AM
Do you think melting the lead right inside the rotor would damage it? It would be a perfect fit.
It would have worked great on this one but I would think it would damage the paint on a painted or powder coated rotor. I didn't want someone who didn't consider that to be upset if they did exactly what I did and ended up with paint damage. That is why I chose to do it outside of the rotor for this video. Great point and I should have mentioned that!
Welcome, Kevin! Saw this posted over at ORCA too. It reminds me of the early way of balancing a car tire.
Sid
Quote from: sdlehr on April 25, 2017, 03:30:55 AM
Welcome, Kevin! Saw this posted over at ORCA too. It reminds me of the early way of balancing a car tire.
Sid
Yes sir, that was my inspiration, the good old bubble balancer!!! I like ORCA and I have seen some others here as well but I'm a tinkerer and I thought some of the stuff I do might be a little better received over here.
I can't leave well enough alone :)
Kevin,
Love it! Simple, easy fix to do by everyone. Have you ever had problems with the hot glue coming loose? Not a big deal really, can always be re-do done, and no permanent damage to rotor. Thanks for the tip.
Brett.
Oh yeah, Welcome!
I just did this yesterday so I don't know about longevity yet. Hot melt glue is used to hold rod tip guides on so I would think it should hold fine but time will tell! If I have any issues I will report back.
Improvement/modification number one, as someone mentioned above, is to find a way to safely melt the lead into the cup so that it is a perfect fit and also in a manner so that it is secure and won't fly out of place during use. Shouldn't be too difficult, someone needs to see what will happen to the paint. If the molten lead is dripped into the cup, instead of heated in place, the cup and paint on it will not be subject to very high temperatures; at least not hot enough to harm the paint (I suspect).
Sid
On some rotors you may be able to drill and tap a hole in the rotor using a small countersunk screw or even a set screw and then melt the lead around the screw. The lead would surround the threads, locking it in place. Of course the modification is then permanent (the screw hole will always be there). There would be a little extra weight added with the screw so you may have to remove a bit of the lead which would be easy enough with a knife or just check and recheck as you melt/add more lead. You could also melt the lead with a soldering iron which may be a little easier on the paint.
I will say this, I pulled on the glued in weight with my finger with quite a bit of force just a few minutes ago and it doesn't budge at all. It takes more heat to melt hot glue than you will ever encounter naturally. I used a high temp glue and glue gun that gets much hotter than the little $2 craft type glue guns. I used the higher heat to give me more open time to get the lead fully embedded in it before it began to solidify. I doubt it would come loose, but I can't say that I am 100% positive about that.
A screwed in weight would certainly look more professional, no doubt about that!
I just use the stick on weights that fresh water fishermen use.
Quote from: sdlehr on April 25, 2017, 01:19:43 PM
Improvement/modification number one, as someone mentioned above, is to find a way to safely melt the lead into the cup so that it is a perfect fit and also in a manner so that it is secure and won't fly out of place during use. Shouldn't be too difficult, someone needs to see what will happen to the paint. If the molten lead is dripped into the cup, instead of heated in place, the cup and paint on it will not be subject to very high temperatures; at least not hot enough to harm the paint (I suspect).
Sid
Sid,pure lead melts at 650-700 degrees minimum. If it contains any alloy like antimony or tin the melting temp. is higher. I think that will cook the paint.
Quote from: handi2 on April 25, 2017, 04:16:15 PM
I just use the stick on weights that fresh water fishermen use.
Do you mean the type used for getting lures to suspend at different depths that stick on the lure?
Quote from: RowdyW on April 25, 2017, 04:27:58 PM
Sid,pure lead melts at 650-700 degrees minimum. If it contains any alloy like antimony or tin the melting temp. is higher. I think that will cook the paint.
Yeah, but it's a small amount of lead and a big metal cup to dissipate the heat. I was talking about the paint on the outside, not under where the lead will go.... I'd stop caring about the paint under the lead immediately - but I'd want to find a way to anchor the lead in place so it can't get dislodged and fall out - even a perfectly shaped piece of lead may not adhere too well to the inside of the cup. I may do an experiment on my 6500SS. If I do, I'll document it here.
Si
Quote from: sdlehr on April 25, 2017, 06:19:24 PM
Quote from: RowdyW on April 25, 2017, 04:27:58 PM
Sid,pure lead melts at 650-700 degrees minimum. If it contains any alloy like antimony or tin the melting temp. is higher. I think that will cook the paint.
Yeah, but it's a small amount of lead and a big metal cup to dissipate the heat. I was talking about the paint on the outside, not under where the lead will go.... I'd stop caring about the paint under the lead immediately - but I'd want to find a way to anchor the lead in place so it can't get dislodged and fall out - even a perfectly shaped piece of lead may not adhere too well to the inside of the cup. I may do an experiment on my 6500SS. If I do, I'll document it here.
Si
If you do, would you mind getting some pictures to post? It may help others out! I would assume the 6500SS is the Penn skirted spool. If the heavy side is on the bail arm side, you may be able to add weight to the pivoting side opposite of the bail arm under the metal plate. Those rotors may already be balanced pretty well. Some older skirted spool rotors are and some aren't from my personal experience.
Just get stick on lead weights that they use for aluminum & mag wheels. Just cut the length you need & peel off the tape backing. They dont come off of a wheel at well over 100 mph or in the rain so they should hold tight on a reel. ;D
You may have an issue with rubbing on a cupped rotor with stick on wheel weights. The reason I melted and reshaped the weight was to get it lower than the highest point in that same area.
I would suggest for anyone doubting the strength of high temp hot melt glue to put some down and embed a lead weight into it and see how much force it takes to break it loose. It is pretty strong and that is directly applied force which would have much more impact than the centrifugal force it would experience while spinning in a rotor.
Try it out as an experiment, I don't think it will go anywhere under normal circumstances in a rotor.
You must have a hammer in your tool box, just use it to flatten the weight a little for clearance before installing it if needed. They are very soft & shape easily. Hammers are more readilly available then glue guns.
Quote from: RowdyW on April 25, 2017, 07:41:49 PM
You must have a hammer in your tool box, just use it to flatten the weight a little for clearance before installing it if needed. They are very soft & shape easily. Hammers are more readilly available then glue guns.
That may be a method worth looking into for some.
Here is a lead to aluminum hot melt glue test video. I did this to satisfy my own curiosity and maybe to save someone else the trouble. I spun it in a rotary tool at 10,000 RPM (didn't want to go any higher in fear that the imbalance would damage my tool), tried to pull it off with pliers, and ended up prying it out with a screw driver. The centrifugal force test and the tensile force test were both very positive. When checking tensile strength I actually damaged the lead more than anything. I was able to get the joint to fail using shear force with the screwdriver. Since the joint wouldn't be subject to anything other than centrifugal forces in a rotor, I would have to say the hot melt glue is certainly encouraging. Again, I can't say 100% for sure the joint wouldn't fail...but I trust it enough to be OK with using it in my reel.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-aUmgBWRt3g
Glue used was Stanley Dual Temp Glue Sticks and the glue gun was an Ad Tech 2 Temp gun (40W max) used at its hottest setting.
Interesting...reminds me that several of my spinning reels are slightly off balance...I may have to experiment. Good job on the vids. 8)
Quote from: mo65 on April 26, 2017, 01:04:02 AM
Interesting...reminds me that several of my spinning reels are slightly off balance...I may have to experiment. Good job on the vids. 8)
I think it would be helpful if anyone does this to post pictures and tell about the make and model reel and the amount of weight used and what your results were. It may help others out who want to do it too.
That is one beautiful smallmouth on your signature!
That is a pretty cool Video.
It reminds me of balancing my lawnmower blades.
I would rough up the surface under that weight and the weight itself with some sandpaper and use some 5 or 10 minute epoxy.
Great solution and I bet that reel feels much better balanced now.
I thought about epoxy and researched how well it binds to lead. If using epoxy make sure to do it immediately after sanding the lead to a shiny surface. Lead oxidizes very quickly and the epoxy won't stick very well to oxidized lead.
I took the spool off my Shimano MLX 300 & cranked the handle; bad vibration & I figured I might have to try some balancing method; but with the spool back on and drag nut in place, cranked again & no noticeable problem. Not completely sure why this was. The spool itself has a very thin clicker wire inside, which I would have thought too light to make any difference.
You can solder lead to aluminum.
Quote from: happyhooker on June 03, 2017, 08:30:47 PM
I took the spool off my Shimano MLX 300 & cranked the handle; bad vibration & I figured I might have to try some balancing method; but with the spool back on and drag nut in place, cranked again & no noticeable problem. Not completely sure why this was. The spool itself has a very thin clicker wire inside, which I would have thought too light to make any difference.
When design engineers balance a reel, i.e. rotor, the use of a counter weight usually takes all aspects of the rotation into consideration, including, but not necessarily limited to, the rotor, bail assembly, spool and in some cases even line tension against the roller bearing. What may appear to be unbalanced while free wheeling does not always end up being unbalanced under stress. The way line is fills a spool, whether uniformly, or not, can have some influence, to a degree, on overall balance.