Hi all
Long time lurker, first time post. :)
I live in North Queensland, Australia, and enjoy a bit of tropical sportfishing on the Great barrier reef.
I would greatly appreciate any suggestions on how to remove the spool cap on my Shimano TTS 50.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/23/18431_30_01_18_4_59_03.jpeg)
The reel was bought second hand about 2 years ago and has worked fine until recently when the drag became sticky. So I've tried to open it up and give it a clean and maybe replace the drag with carbontex if I can't get it running smooth with the existing material.
I have opened plenty of similar reels before (I have another TTS 50 that I have owned for 22 years) and 3 weeks earlier serviced my TLD25, so I didn't think there would be an issue.
My line of approach to unsuccessfully unscrew the spool cap off has gone something like this;
- check that I am turning it clockwise as it is left hand thread
- Use the shimano tool (pictured) to undo the cap. No success
- check that I am turning it clockwise as it is left hand thread
- Dry hands and hold it between legs to get maximum purchase. No Success
- check that I am turning it clockwise as it is left hand thread
- Use an oil filter wrench (top left of photo) with a strip of inner tube to allow greater power in holding the spool. No Success
- check that I am turning it clockwise as it is left hand thread
- Bash the shimano tool against hard surfaces to try and shock it loose
- check that I am turning it clockwise as it is left hand thread
- make a tool out of a strip of 4mm flat strap steel so that I can grip two lugs/indents on opposite sides of the spool cap. Better than the single lug grip of the shimano tool.
- using the above tool in a vice, and the oil filter wrench to hold the spool, apply significant pressure to turn the cap. Succeeded in ripping off the edge of one of the 4 indents
The cap still will not budge and i think I have put on as much pressure as I physically can, not that I am particularly strong. So I suspect that a previous owner has glued or put sealant on the threads (to state the obvious).
So I am at a loss as what to do next. Using some heat is all I can think of, but the center black section in the above photo seems to be plastic so I am likely to melt or deform it by the time I get some heat all the way round. Also I'm not sure if heat will help undo whatever was used to glue/seal it.
Would anyone have any suggestions on what to try next?
Much appreciated!
Regards
Max
Mix up some acetone and automatic transmission fluid in a 50:50 ratio and use it as a penetrant. Be aware thst the acetone may damage plastic components, but I honestly don't remember there being any here on this model. Try using a torch to apply heat all around the spool lip. Go back to vice grip, and tool method with some tapping around the outside. If heat and penetrant Don't loosen things up at all, try letting it sit in the freezer overnight, then appling heat. In a worse case scenario, you may have to destroy the shield in order to remove it, easier said then done though.
John
Quote from: Tightlines666 on January 30, 2018, 03:37:36 PM
Mix up some acetone and automatic transmission fluid in a 50:50 ratio and use it as a penetrant. Be aware thst the acetone may damage plastic components, but I honestly don't remember there being any here on this model. Try using a torch to apply heat all around the spool lip. Go back to vice grip, and tool method with some tapping around the outside. If heat and penetrant Don't loosen things up at all, try letting it sit in the freezer overnight, then appling heat. In a worse case scenario, you may have to destroy the shield in order to remove it, easier said then done though.
John
John,
Great tip on the Acetone & ATF . . . Be extremely careful around plastic parts !
A while back, I found this information on a Machinist's website . . .
PENETRATING OIL COMPARISONMachinist's Workshop magazine tested penetrants for break out torque on rusted nuts.
They arranged a subjective test of all the popular penetrants with the control being the
torque required to remove the nut from a "scientifically rusted" environment.
The results are as follows;
Penetrating Oil ................ Average load
None ............................. 516 pounds
WD-40 .......................... 238 pounds
PB Blaster ...................... 214 pounds
Liquid Wrench ................. 127 pounds
Kano Kroil ...................... 106 pounds
ATF-Acetone mix............. 53 pounds
The ATF-Acetone mix was a "home brew" mix of 50-50 automatic transmission fluid and acetone.
Tight Lines !
Be extremely careful with acetone, it eats plastic. I would suggest Kroil.
I use Kano Kroil, it works well and only stains Bakelite, doesn't eat it.
Thank you all for your suggestions.
I will have another try this weekend with penetrants and heat and let you know how things go.
Regards
Max
Hi Max,
I have owned and worked on a lot of these TTS reels. The best way I've found to remove the drag cover, when it's tight like the one you're working on, is to have someone hold the spool steady and then give the cap wrench a sharp whack with the plastic handle of a heavy screw driver.
I think the sudden jolt is better than a hard consistent pressure.
By the way, as I recall the threads on the cap are right hand, i.e. turn anti clockwise to remove. I notice that your wrench in the picture is in the tightening position. You're probably very aware of this so hope I'm not being redundant.
Love these reels. They're tanks to be sure.
Good luck with your project.
Quote from: josa1 on January 30, 2018, 10:40:51 PM
Hi Max,
I have owned and worked on a lot of these TTS reels. The best way I've found to remove the drag cover, when it's tight like the one you're working on, is to have someone hold the spool steady and then give the cap wrench a sharp whack with the plastic handle of a heavy screw driver.
I think the sudden jolt is better than a hard consistent pressure.
By the way, as I recall the threads on the cap are right hand, i.e. turn anti clockwise to remove. I notice that your wrench in the picture is in the tightening position. You're probably very aware of this so hope I'm not being redundant.
Love these reels. They're tanks to be sure.
Good luck with your project.
Hi josa1
Thanks a lot for your info.
The comment about normal right hand threads is extremely interesting and definitely not redundant! ;D . I did actually try undoing in the normal thread direction too when I was convinced that I wasn't getting anywhere undoing a left hand thread. I couldn't find any specific into about the TTS and I can't remember how it was last time I opened my other TTS up (I will open it up to confirm). What info I do have is that TLD and Beatmasters are left hand thread, so for this TTS I have assumed the same. If you are telling me it is normal thread then I will have to try again and I might have more success. Unless I have now wedged it on hard...... :)
You have given me more hope that I will get there.
Have you added a carbontex drags to any TTS reels? I'm not sure how I will go regaining a smooth drag by cleaning up the standard washer (or whatever is in there). Any tips on what has worked would be appreciated.
Thanks!
Max
Quote from: sdlehr on January 30, 2018, 07:24:49 PM
I use Kano Kroil, it works well and only stains Bakelite, doesn't eat it.
does it stain it black to original color????? :) I have a set that is actually tan...
Hi Max,
The fact that Shimano makes some of the caps left handed and others with right hand threads is indeed confusing.
Give the "whack it with a screwdriver handle" a try in the counter clockwise direction and see if that helps.
If it did come down to removing the cap with a dermal tool, I have a cap that I can send you.
Never replaced the "Titanium Drag" canvas washer with carbontex. I was always very happy with the performance of the OEM drag so thus never changed it.
By the way Max, here's a post I did on this site on a TTS50W that had been two-speed converted by Cal Sheets. I think you might find some useful info in here....
http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=7895.0
The part about removing the "cooling shield" (Shimano's Term) is about halfway through.
josa1
Hi Max, only use a few drips of acetone & auto trans oil, some times it is best to run hot water over it before trying to undo it rather than a naikid flame, & I think Daron ( sharkhunter ) has had success be placing the reel in his freezer for a short time, hopefully he may chime in on this, good luck, cheers Don.
I have the same problem with a couple of PENN reels. I have soaked them in hot water to expand the spool then cole then hot again to no avail. I have tried penetrating plum to no avail. I purchased replacement covers and will break mine shortly. That doesn't help you.
Shimano drag covers have been left handed threads in my experience, and therefore Turing clockwise is the correct direction.
You can try asking someone to hold the spool assembly and whack the wrench with a rubber mallet. I've gotten many off this way.
Quote from: josa1 on January 31, 2018, 12:05:47 AM
Hi Max,
The fact that Shimano makes some of the caps left handed and others with right hand threads is indeed confusing.
Give the "whack it with a screwdriver handle" a try in the counter clockwise direction and see if that helps.
If it did come down to removing the cap with a dermal tool, I have a cap that I can send you.
Never replaced the "Titanium Drag" canvas washer with carbontex. I was always very happy with the performance of the OEM drag so thus never changed it.
By the way Max, here's a post I did on this site on a TTS50W that had been two-speed converted by Cal Sheets. I think you might find some useful info in here....
http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=7895.0
The part about removing the "cooling shield" (Shimano's Term) is about halfway through.
josa1
I wish I found your tutorial earlier. It seems my search skills are not as good as I thought as I didn't find your info. If I'd read that I probably wouldn't have posted on here.
Thanks a lot again. I'm sure I will get the cap off now turning it the correct way.. ::) if not some freezing, heating and penetrating oil as suggested should get it loose. I have a 27 year old vehicle so I'm familiar with various methods of loosening seized threads but this reel needs a bit more care.
I will keep that titanium drag for the moment since you have had success with it, and hope to have it running smooth shortly. I will keep your spare cap in mind, thanks
Regards
Max
Quote from: Bryan Young on January 31, 2018, 12:57:13 AM
I have the same problem with a couple of PENN reels. I have soaked them in hot water to expand the spool then cole then hot again to no avail. I have tried penetrating plum to no avail. I purchased replacement covers and will break mine shortly. That doesn't help you.
Shimano drag covers have been left handed threads in my experience, and therefore Turing clockwise is the correct direction.
You can try asking someone to hold the spool assembly and whack the wrench with a rubber mallet. I've gotten many off this way.
Although neither of our situations is nice, it is good to hear I am not the only one with this problem. Maybe one of the previous owners didn't use sealant as I suspected (especially as I was turning it the wrong way)
max, i'm not sure if the threads are right handed or left handed, but i think these are right handed threads. :-\
The cap came off relatively easily using Josa1's method of the shimano tool and whacking it hard with the end of a screwdriver (with biggest screwdriver I had). The threads are normal right hand and I will remember that for sure.
So thanks all for your suggestions.
Cheers
Max
:D :D :D
josa1
Quote from: MaxG on February 01, 2018, 11:36:06 AM
The cap came off relatively easily using Josa1's method of the shimano tool and whacking it hard with the end of a screwdriver (with biggest screwdriver I had). The threads are normal right hand and I will remember that for sure.
So thanks all for your suggestions.
Cheers
Max
Excellent news, Max !
Tight Lines !
Just to finish off this topic
I'm happy with getting the cap off.
I tried to get the drag to work smoothly with the original washer but it didn't improve with a through clean and dry of the washer and adjacent areas, not that there appeared to be anything wrong initially. With not much idea what else to do I cut out a washer from 1.0mm carbontex and it is running nicely now.
I found a TTS 30 for sale amongst some other reels. "make an offer" said the ad that had been running for a while. So I enquired as to what price they were looking for and he wanted to move everything on quickly and $50 Aus ($40 US) would be sufficient. Bargin. So another cheap TTS will be added to the stable.
Thanks again for all the suggestions
Regards
Max
clearly the man is a glutton for punishment...... ;D
Quote from: alantani on February 06, 2018, 01:23:12 AM
clearly the man is a glutton for punishment...... ;D
Yes. I'm not smart ;D
no, i'm certain you're plenty smart, but just can't walk away from a challenge!
Quote from: alantani on February 06, 2018, 04:46:32 AM
no, i'm certain you're plenty smart, but just can't walk away from a challenge!
Alan,
No need for him to "walk away" . . . The "Ohana" had his back !
Tight Lines !
nice, the last time I have problems with the drag cap of a TT 15/30 I have to give some wacks with a rubber hammer and a big screwdriver to unlock the cap.
man, I wish I had one of those shimano tools
Quote from: steelfish on February 07, 2018, 08:51:04 PMman, I wish I had one of those shimano tools
Not a problem . . .
https://www.ebay.com/itm/SHIMANO-BIG-GAME-REEL-PART-TLD0230-Tiagra-50-50W-50WLRS-Wrench/292422638316 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/SHIMANO-BIG-GAME-REEL-PART-TLD0230-Tiagra-50-50W-50WLRS-Wrench/292422638316)https://www.ebay.com/itm/SHIMANO-REEL-REPAIR-TOOL-TLD0230-TLD15-TLD20-TLD25-TLD30-TLD50-TT0146/361460847473 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/SHIMANO-REEL-REPAIR-TOOL-TLD0230-TLD15-TLD20-TLD25-TLD30-TLD50-TT0146/361460847473)Tight Lines !
Nice, thanks
no matter what, these can be tough reels to work on.