Does anyone knows roughly how much more casting distance you can get when we move from a 8 to 10 feet rod? Is the increment noticeable at all?
The casting distance depending on so many parameters (including your personal skills ) , that ,in my opinion , I can't answer your question .
I would suggest that all other things being equal, your distance should definitely go up. Even to the stage where for general casting, with a fixed spool reel (spinner) your distances will go up considerably.
During recent years in our surf fishing, we changed over to braid and fixed spool reels, and while we started with standard 14', we immediately noticed improvements stepping up to 14'-6" and subsequently 15' long rods.
Cheers from sunny Africa
Surf/beach fishing, in the UK, 14, 15 and 16' rods are the norm for distance work.
Quote from: Tiddlerbasher on January 18, 2019, 12:08:49 PM
Surf/beach fishing, in the UK, 14, 15 and 16' rods are the norm for distance work.
I know it's a matter of personal preference but what do you consider the optimum length from the reel to the butt cap?
Thanks,
Frank
Quote from: Jeri on January 18, 2019, 11:40:04 AM
I would suggest that all other things being equal,
That's the problem , all other things
can't be equal . From 14 to 15 (or better 8 to 10 like Reel Beaker ask ) the number / locations of guides has to be modified ,the rod taper , the tip diameter size too , total weight ...not only the lenght .
Rods that are 12' and above are considered surf rods right?
So anything lesser than that are normal rods? What are the odds of finding a decent 10-11' rod? I see mostly rods up to 8-9' in tackle shops. Anything above that, the selection is pretty limited..
Well, a surf rod can be any rod you chuck in the surf...But generally, I would say 8' is the minimum. The purpose of length is two-fold: hold line above breakers and get distance if needed. These two parameters dictate what you need in a surf rod. Tony, the Rockfish Ninja her,e is using 7-8 rods i believe, to target rockfish near the bank and not having to keep line above breakers in a rod holder. Jeri is the opposite in SA. So it depends on your application, but to answer your question, yes you should expect a good bit more distance in a 10' and so on. HOWEVER: all rods are not equal: you can by a 15' Ugly Stick that is heavy with three feet of mushy tip, and get easily outcast by someone with an 11' graphite rod with good technique. You didn't specify if you are using bait and lead or throwing lures, or both, but a 10' or 11' composite rod can be had economically if you look around and order if you must. Okuma and Sea Striker both offer serviceable 10' rods under $70 which have chunked pretty well for me. Avoid the $30 touristy models, and fish your 8' til you are able to find what you want. You should also check caigslist, pawn shops / flea markets in your area and buy for pennies on the dollar. I've bought Loomis, St Croix, Lamiglas, Penn rods this way for big discount.
Don't you have rods for surf lure fishing? We now have a pretty wide selection in South Africa ranging from 9 to 12 ft for that purpose both in spinning and multiplier configuration. Well the variety is reasonable for here, we don't nearly have the tackle market of the US. We do, however get Shimano, Daiwa, Penn and Loomis rods that you probably don't get there. They are in this 9-12ft bracket. I reckon if you have brand X rod in 8ft and a 10ft model and you use the same reel and line on both it will be a reasonable comparison and pretty sure you will be casting further with the 10ft. If you start comparing fibre glass to graphite and conventional to spinning then it becomes a bit of an apples and pears situation.
Surf rods generally start at 9 ft. & can be as long as you want it. Surf rods generally have a longer butt then say a boat rod to get a better whip action. These descriptions are not written in stone though. Remember that the longer the rod the more leverage the fish has against you. 10-11 ft. are generally the average length in use other then specialty rods. Of course any rod you cast from the beach can be called a surf rod. Rudy
If you are chucking lures 9-12'. For UK sea bass fishing I am still using a 12' carbon/kevlar rod - 2 1/4 lb test curve - built by Paul Boote in the eighties (iirc) for carp fishing - a great rod for lures up to about 3oz. For heavier bait and weight (4-6oz) I use a 13 or 14ft mostly - conventional reel mounted down at the butt end (controlled by the left hand during the cast). I also sometimes use an extension piece on the butt so the reel is in a more conventional location (right hand control) - remove the extension after the cast/playing the fish - EDIT that should have read remove extension having finished playing the fish before re-casting ::) Read twice before hitting 'post' doh!
Having re-read my post I wish to clarify/correct a couple of points:
Most butt extensions are to facilitate reeling in or placing the rod in a holder/sand spike. They are only used when the conventional reel is mounted at the butt end (left hand cast control). The last one I used was specially made to cast with (16" long) and very strong - it was a cheaper option than buying a another longer rod.
Quote from: thorhammer on January 18, 2019, 02:27:55 PM
HOWEVER: all rods are not equal: you can by a 15' Ugly Stick that is heavy with three feet of mushy tip, and get easily outcast by someone with an 11' graphite rod with good technique. You didn't specify if you are using bait and lead or throwing lures, or both, but a 10' or 11' composite rod can be had economically if you look around and order if you must. Okuma and Sea Striker both offer serviceable 10' rods under $70 which have chunked pretty well for me.
A friend of mine swears that graphite Okuma Longitude surf rods in 12' length for about 70 bucks is the best bang for the buck. He fishes for big flathead and blue catfish from shore exclusively using Carolina Rigs with no roll sinkers and cut skipjack or shad.
that's the one i'm talkin bout Festus. i have a 9 and a 10 footer that do fine for chunking bait and sitting in a spike. i bit heavy for plugging all day but would do it.
Quote from: thorhammer on January 18, 2019, 04:23:54 PM
that's the one i'm talkin bout Festus. i have a 9 and a 10 footer that do fine for chunking bait and sitting in a spike. i bit heavy for plugging all day but would do it.
Here you go, Catfish Dave uses the Okuma Longitude CX series rods and consistently catches as many or more big catfish from shore than boat fishermen.
https://youtu.be/fyZhc21RFMw
I agree with John. Rods can quickly get too long to be comfortable to hold all day because they are so tip heavy. Part of the reason surf rod handles are so long is that the handle helps counterbalance the long heavy tip. If you are going to bait and wait in a sand spike it is less of a concern than if you are plugging.
-steve
I notice that rods have different diameters. Should i be overly concerned with the diameter of the rods?
No. it's a function of the intend line class (weight if you will) of the rod and it's coomstruction. Graphite will be thinnest, lightest and cast farther on average but is more costly and less durable then glas. Graphite comp or E / S glas are good compromises.
Again, it's about your application. If you are soaking a bait for a larger fish like drum, stripers or sharks, where they will eat it and take off on a circle hook, glas is actually at a bit of advantage due to it's flex: it will load easier and cast softer to keep bait on, and it will give a bit for the fish to get the bait down well without much resistance then suddenly lock up when the bend hits transition, pulling the circle hook up to do it's job. Stiff graphite may get your spike pulled over before you get there depending on your drag setting. This is why Dave Fritts advocated glas rods for bass crankbaits. If you are throwing light grubs on an 8' rod for trout in winter, then you'd want all the sensitivity graphite and braided line can bring for cautious nibbles.
just my 0.02 based on various ways i fish, and where. There any number of other factors that can change that, and others will have different opinions.
Quote from: thorhammer on January 19, 2019, 01:51:02 PM
No. it's a function of the intend line class (weight if you will) of the rod and it's coomstruction. Graphite will be thinnest, lightest and cast farther on average but is more costly and less durable then glas. Graphite comp or E / S glas are good compromises.
Again, it's about your application. If you are soaking a bait for a larger fish like drum, stripers or sharks, where they will eat it and take off on a circle hook, glas is actually at a bit of advantage due to it's flex: it will load easier and cast softer to keep bait on, and it will give a bit for the fish to get the bait down well without much resistance then suddenly lock up when the bend hits transition, pulling the circle hook up to do it's job. Stiff graphite may get your spike pulled over before you get there depending on your drag setting. This is why Dave Fritts advocated glas rods for bass crankbaits. If you are throwing light grubs on an 8' rod for trout in winter, then you'd want all the sensitivity graphite and braided line can bring for cautious nibbles.
just my 0.02 based on various ways i fish, and where. There any number of other factors that can change that, and others will have different opinions.
So if you use circle hooks fiberglass is the way to go?
Circle hooks will work with all rod materials.
I can say "agreed" to every statement here!
Just generalising a longer rod will cast further, but the caster needs to know what to do with it to get the optimal distance.
I usually use a 10 to 11 ft rod for my daily work and carry a 12 ft 6 inch one for when I need more distance. However at times the longer rod makes so little difference, that it is not worth the effort.
Quote from: Captain64-200 on January 18, 2019, 11:04:32 AM
The casting distance depending on so many parameters (including your personal skills ) , that ,in my opinion , I can't answer your question .
Absolutely!
Quote from: Jeri on January 18, 2019, 11:40:04 AM
I would suggest that all other things being equal, your distance should definitely go up. Even to the stage where for general casting, with a fixed spool reel (spinner) your distances will go up considerably.
During recent years in our surf fishing, we changed over to braid and fixed spool reels, and while we started with standard 14', we immediately noticed improvements stepping up to 14'-6" and subsequently 15' long rods.
Cheers from sunny Africa
As Jeri says!
There are so many factors effecting this of which personal ability is the most important. I find I no longer have the strength to cast a long and strong rod with a 8 oz casting weight.
Quote from: RowdyW on January 20, 2019, 06:21:10 AM
Circle hooks will work with all rod materials.
Yep....my point was,, glas, having a bit of flex will let a fish swim a second before it locks up and pulls the circle to the jaw, while you are having a beer and looking off somewhere else on the beach which is what makes surf fishing surf fishing ;D ;D
The graphite is faster and more responsive.
Quote from: thorhammer on January 21, 2019, 01:31:05 AM
Quote from: RowdyW on January 20, 2019, 06:21:10 AM
Circle hooks will work with all rod materials.
Yep....my point was,, glas, having a bit of flex will let a fish swim a second before it locks up and pulls the circle to the jaw, while you are having a beer and looking off somewhere else on the beach which is what makes surf fishing surf fishing ;D ;D
The graphite is faster and more responsive.
Most serious surf anglers wouldn't be seen dead with an antiquated glass fibre rod. Nearly all upper level surf rods these days are full carbon, though a few specialist rods might have a mix of carbon and glass in the very tip section; but most are full carbon construction - irrespective of what hook system is being employed.
Some 12' rods have casting weight and lure weight specs on their blanks. Are these the same thing or are they different?
I also noticed that the Spinning Penn Slammer rod has a heavy line weight but the first guide is rather small.
Should i be overly-worried about the size of the first guide? I i recall properly, the line weight was like 15-30 lb. But a 4000 spinning reel will most prob hold 12 lb mono, printed on their spool (Yeah i know we can use braid or high tensile mono if we wanted).
It seem weird to be to be using a 6000 spinning reel with a line cap of 20 lb(printed on their spool) with what small guides.
I looked at the first guide and it seem to me like a 3000, 3500 reel will be more appropriate with that rod, but it would be weird to be using such reels with a rod with that range of line weight.
Isnt the first guide to reduce the size of the line loop through the rod when we cast as line leaves the spool? So smaller guide = smaller reel, bigger guide = bigger reels?
What kind of reels would you recommend for that kind of rod? Penn slammer spinning reels don't count as it is obvious this would be a legit Penn combo.
Thanks.
Have a google for Fuji concept guides - there are a lot of explanations why small guides can and do outperform larger ones.
Like this:
https://www.guidesnblanks.com/page/fuji_catalogue
Quote from: Tiddlerbasher on January 26, 2019, 02:43:09 PM
Have a google for Fuji concept guides - there are a lot of explanations why small guides can and do outperform larger ones.
Like this:
https://www.guidesnblanks.com/page/fuji_catalogue
The English is so bad and seem to be trying to sell fuji guides to rod makers and consumers. So what size reel will be best for this kind of rod?
Do surf rods tend to have less guides compared to other rods?