"The most beautiful wrap job in the world will look like 3day old dogsh*t if it's under an ugly coat of finish". -My rod building mentor
I heard my mentor say that about 10 years ago and it really stuck with me. Although I heard the words, I still had MANY issues with my finish that I could not get ironed out. I was at a point where my finish jobs were on par with factory rods and I was content with that. Then the fecal matter hit the rotating blades when I started to browse certain rod building forums. Builders were churning out rods with finishes that looked like they were encased inside of crystal. I was floored.
This lead me to the pursuit of glass-like finishes. The builders on these sites that had me going "WHAT ARE THEY DOING THAT I'M NOOOOT!?" (said in brad pitts voice from the movie Seven when he's screaming "whats in the boooox!?").
Below I will outline what I do to get a relatively flat, clean finish. Let me preface this with the statement that there are a million ways to skin a cat and what you do may be different and you may have a much better finish than I do, but I hope that this can help some of the beginners.
Things you will need:
Rod Finish - I like Bullards DII Diamond. It is The best and most user friendly finish I have ever used. That's my experience with it and if you have a particular finish that you like, stick with it. Unfortunately, the folks at Bullards are closing the doors at the end of the year. I have a few gallons of finish being sent to me, but I will have to figure out something else in a couple of months. Casey with Voodoo Rods purchased Bullards and their products can still be purchased through me
Color Preserver - I use and like good ol' FlexCoat. It looks like elmers glue and smells weird but it works great.
Brushes - I like the FlexCoat disposible brushes. I'm not going to clean a brush multiple times a day when working on rods. Use em and toss em. Also, this plays into the cross-contamination issue where something may get on a brush and affect your finish.
Rod dreyers - anything will work. I have a couple but I would throw the cutest kitten in the world off of a cliff for a 4 or 6 bay rod dryer. The more dryers you have, the better. (being broke sucks)
Rod building mixing cups - yes it helps to use rod building cups. Most plastic pieces are molded with silicone as the release agent. Rod building cups are made without silicone. As most of you know, silicone is the devil in terms of rod finish.
The most valuable piece of rod bulding equipment I own is not my renzetti rod lathe, it's my PacBay epoxy mixer. I love this little bugger because it introduces no bubbles into your finish. Also, I measure my finish, put it in the 2oz cup and then put it in the mixer. While it's mixing I do a once-over on the rod to make sure i dont have any dust bunnies on there and I set up my brushes and paper towels. It's a time saver.
(http://www.acidrod.com/images/epoxy_mixer.JPG)
An alcohol lamp
Epoxy syringes
A CLEAN working area to apply finish. It doesnt matter if your finish goes on beautifully if the surface of it looks like the top of your television set (not a single human has a dust-free television set).
The How-To
A good rod finish starts at how things hare handled from the get go. After your grips are on make sure the blank is clean. Use denatured alcohol as some rod blanks cannot withstand acetone (super seekers are one of them, ask me how I know).
When wrapping the rod, handle the thread as little as possible.
Wash your hands every 30-45mins. Hand oils can and will cause fish-eyes.
Don't show the rod off to your buddies before it's done. Invariably they will have just eaten fried chicken and will finger f**k your guide wraps (again, ask me how i know)
Clean your thread tools. This means your thread clippers, razor blades and burnishing tool.
When measuring your epoxy, BE EXACT! I don't just go to the same mark on each syringe, I go to the same spot on the mark (ie: the top of the 3cc line). If you have a bubble in your syringe, that is empty space so it won't be equal to the other syringe if that one has no bubbles.
Don't be cheap with your rod finish, mix more than you think you need. Lets say for example you are off by just a little bit. You filled to the top of the 1cc line on your resin, and the bottom of the 1cc line on your hardener. Your finish may come out fine but i dont want to risk hours of work on a small, avoidable mistake. To combat this, mix a larger batch of epoxy. If you went to the top of the 3cc line with the resin and to the bottom of the 3cc line with the hardener, it won't affect anything because it is such a small percentage of the overall mixture (being off by 1gallon would be a huge deal if you were mixing 5gallons of hardener to [what you thought] was 5 gallons of resin, whereas if you were mixing two Olympic sized swimming pools together, 1gallon is negligible).
Set your rod up in your rod turning lathe. Some people use their dryer with a slip-clutch to turn the rod, but I've found that i can get smoother edges with the rod turning at a faster speed.
Your first coat of epoxy should be nothing more than a thread sealer. I put this coat on very thin so that all I am doing is bonding everything in place.
Under power come to the edge of the wrap with your brush and start your lathe spinning. It is important that your rod is centered because if it is not your edge wont be straight.
Once you have the edge done, slowly work your way to the end of the guide wrap. If you are using double foot guides, work your way to the point where one side of the guide wrap ends, and then use horizontal brush strokes to cover the underwrap. Start the lathe spinning again and work your way to the other end of the guide wrap, making sure you get a clean edge.
Around the guide feet you'll notice that the epoxy will soak in to the threads and you'll see the threads continuing to show through the finish. Keep applying finish until this stops. You want the channel between the guide foot and the threads to be a solid block of epoxy.
After you have your finish applied, what i like to do is to go back to the first wrap I applied finish to and make horizontal strokes with my brush over the finish. Go back and forth until you rotate the rod at least once. This will level out all of the peaks and valleys in the finish that got created when the rod was spinning. Once you have done that to all of your guide wraps/decorative wraps, get the rod spinning under power, while it's spinning, take your alcohol lamp and heat up the epoxy. Don't over heat it. Having the rod spinning will help to prevent this and the spinning will assist in leveling the epoxy. Additionally, the heat will thin the epoxy allowing the small bubbles to escape leaving you with a clear finish.
Transfer the rod to your dryer.
I like to apply my subsequent coats within 48hrs of the previous coat. I feel that the finish layers will bond together rather than on top of each other if done this way.
The 2nd, 3rd and even 4th coat will go on the same way as your first. The only difference is that you should apply the finish more liberally. Make sure the edges of the guide feet are completely encased in finish. No air gaps = no water intrusion.
Trouble Shooting
My finish is still soft/tacky after 24+ hours, what do I do? I would suggest cutting it off and redoing the rod. It sucks but here is why i recommend it: epoxy is only as strong as what you bond it to. If you put the worlds strongest, eleventy-ton epoxy only on your masking tape bushings under the reel seat, the bond between your reel seat and the blank is only as strong as the masking tape. The same thing applies to rod finish.
I put the finish on, went inside and made a sammich, pooped, read the front page of the newspaper, and when I went back to check on the rod, I had a huge fisheye on my crosswrap! What do I do?. If you plan on putting additional finish coats on, don't worry about it. Just make sure to keep an eye on that area when you do apply your next coat. If it's your final coat, what works for me to get rid of them is this: take your alcohol lamp and warm the epoxy in your cup (without melting the cup), apply a drop of the thinned finish to the fish eye and then heat up the area around where you put the drop. This will thin the finish a bit so that the drop and the epoxy already on the wrap blend together. Also since the epoxy is already getting gummy, it will revert from this thinned state back to being thick before the contaminate can cause a fisheye.
After the finish has fully cured, i have a large, cured bubble that is protruding out from under one of the guide feet, what do I do? Take the tip of your razor blade/exacto knife and cut the top of the bubble off. The next coat of finish will flow inside this void and will be unnoticeable.
The finish over my crosswrap/tigerwrap/scales/etc is lumpy and uneven, what do I do? Get some fine-grit sandpaper and affix it to a sanding block. With the rod spinning in your rod lathe, sand down the high spots while making sure you don't sand down to the threads. Clean the area with acetone on a lint free, clean rag and apply another coat of finish using the above techniques.
I hope this has helped at least one person and if you guys have any questions or would like to add something, feel free!!
Examples of the results I get using the above methods.
(http://i.imgur.com/vNfBmAb.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/fPPrRep.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/vw6GyZV.jpg)
That is IMPRESSIVE work!
WOW what a finish!
Quote from: Jon Vadney on December 01, 2014, 08:34:46 AM
"The most beautiful wrap job in the world will look like 3day old dogsh*t if it's under an ugly coat of finish".
not a single human has a dust-free televisivision.
Wash your hands every 30-45mins. Hand oils can and will cause fish-eyes.
Don't show the rod off to your buddies before it's done. Invariably they will have just eaten fried chicken and will finger f**k your guide wraps (again, ask me how i know)
I put the finish on, went inside and made a sammich, pooped, read the front page of the newspaper, and when I went back to check on the rod,
Words of Wisdom Jon! :D
Great looking work too, as usual! ;)
Very nice How to and some nice looking rod finish Jon. There is a lot of sharing of knowledge here and it's nice to see people are so willing to share there knowledge as well.
Awesome Jon. I gotta come by an video tape you doing this for those challenged people like me. ;D
Thank you for taking the time to explain your methods. It is certainly challenging to try and match the pretty work that you do.
Amazing post! Helped me for sure! Thanks for sharing your knowledge and experience.
The pics kick butt, but we all know the level of your work is top notch. The *GREAT* thing is that you share some excellent knowledge with us about the tricks of the trade of rod building. I will make use of your tips on my next rod repair, I want to get as close to the original work as possible on a broken surf rod guide.
Good knowledge & keep the tips & info coming if you can.
Thanks
Thanks guys! I have a few more tutorials that I'll be posting up here soon.
Quote from: Jon Vadney on December 02, 2014, 05:28:26 AM
Thanks guys! I have a few more tutorials that I'll be posting up here soon.
Anything on grip selection and setup would be great.
I will share one of my tools with you. For popping air bubbles I use a little crème Brule torch from Bed Bath and Beyond. Very easy to handle and get your refill fuel at Walmart and save a bunch.
I would concur fully with the tutorial and especially the need to keep absolutely everything clean.
A tip to add, would be to use a barbeque lighter for the bursting of bubbles. We use them extensively, but additionally, rather than just the bubbles, we gently heat the whole of the resin section, to liquify the resin a little so that it really does flow fully through to the blank. We se a lot of resin work that just binds the threads, but is not aherring to the blank.
hope that helps.
Jeri
Hey Jeri,
One thing I'll add is that whatever heat source you use, make sure the flame it produces is a clean flame. Using butane lighters and the such can introduce soot to your finish, which is why I recommend an alcohol lamp.
Alcohol lamps are cheap, the fuel (denatured alcohol) is readily available, and it has a very cool flame so you won't damage the blank or your wraps.
Hi Jon,
We have been using the butane lighters for years, and set at the lowest setting, they give us the workability that we are looking for, to apply very gentle heat, just to re-liquify the resin to get it to flow down to the blank. We don't ever have the problem of bubbles creeping out from under the guide's feet.
Never had a soot issue with these burners – as we don't apply that much heat to scorch the resin, and certainly not enough to heat up a blank, we find them easy to use, and avoids the problem of carrying around a 'pot of flames'.
Each to their own.
Cheers from sunny Africa
Jeri
If it works, dont change it! As I stated earlier, there are a million ways to apply finish, and what I do may not work for other people. My biggest intent with the whole post in general was to help some of the beginners iron out the mistakes before they've even made them. I've made every mistake imaginable lol.
Hi Jon,
It's the first 100 are when you make the most mistakes, after that it becomes easier. Having said that after the first 100, you are pretty much set in your ways as to how you go about doing your own thing. We each develop our skills by a different route, but ultimately we end up with pretty much the same thing.
Seen it all too often with shark anglers – put 12 in a room with all the 'makings', and you will end up with 12 different rigs – each with a strong point of view. Then add bait and you will end up seeing another 12 variations. They all work and mostly catch fish – so debating the virtues of the accomplished is a fairly pointless exercise. All we can hope to achieve is to perhaps see something new, and learn from it.
Cheers from sunny Africa
Jeri
Quote from: Jeri on December 03, 2014, 01:54:17 PM
Hi Jon,
It's the first 100 are when you make the most mistakes, after that it becomes easier. Having said that after the first 100, you are pretty much set in your ways as to how you go about doing your own thing. We each develop our skills by a different route, but ultimately we end up with pretty much the same thing.
Seen it all too often with shark anglers – put 12 in a room with all the 'makings', and you will end up with 12 different rigs – each with a strong point of view. Then add bait and you will end up seeing another 12 variations. They all work and mostly catch fish – so debating the virtues of the accomplished is a fairly pointless exercise. All we can hope to achieve is to perhaps see something new, and learn from it.
Cheers from sunny Africa
I agree with your statement about opinions or convictions. I think John is giving us all information directed at learning something new or for those of us that are new to the hobby. If we listen to everyone suggesting how to do something and each get a little something new from it we can improve our own skills. Example: I also use a butane lighter for heating the Epoxy finish..but I hadn't given much thought to the fact that there is some soot omitted from it. Good point, better to use it as a heat source but not under the rod blank,just to one side. Trial and era teaches all lessons every day.
Jeri
Jon
Do you use one of those alcohol torches from Mudhole? If not what kind?
Dwight
Quote from: Newell Nut on December 03, 2014, 08:46:28 PM
Jon
Do you use one of those alcohol torches from Mudhole? If not what kind?
Dwight
Hey Dwight, these are the ones I use.
http://www.amazon.com/82440-Plastic-Alcohol-Torch/dp/B001EMM2HC
Don't order from crud hole if you can avoid it. I've spent money with them but only when I haven't had any other option. They've stolen photos of rod builders work to promote products, even when the work wasn't done with what they are trying to sell. I'm not bashing them because I also sell rod building components, my bashing on them started waaaaaaay before I got into this business. Plus, they charge ridiculous amounts for shipping.
Quote from: Jon Vadney on December 03, 2014, 10:56:53 PM
Quote from: Newell Nut on December 03, 2014, 08:46:28 PM
Jon
Do you use one of those alcohol torches from Mudhole? If not what kind?
Dwight
Hey Dwight, these are the ones I use.
http://www.amazon.com/82440-Plastic-Alcohol-Torch/dp/B001EMM2HC
Don't order from crud hole if you can avoid it. I've spent money with them but only when I haven't had any other option. They've stolen photos of rod builders work to promote products, even when the work wasn't done with what they are trying to sell. I'm not bashing them because I also sell rod building components, my bashing on them started waaaaaaay before I got into this business. Plus, they charge ridiculous amounts for shipping.
Those are facts that are true as well as there not helping with true answers for the beginning rod builder. There shipping is notoriously over charged. It's tough to find a good supplier out there. They are there though.
What do dentist use these alcohol torches for? I saw that a lot in my searches. I am not a mudhole fan either and they are only 40 miles away. Their shipping rates are terrible for sure.
Both dentists and microbiologists (I used to be one). Use them to sterilize tools between uses when time does not allow for autoclaving, and a disposable tool is not available.
Quote from: Newell Nut on December 04, 2014, 01:46:09 AM
What do dentist use these alcohol torches for? I saw that a lot in my searches. I am not a mudhole fan either and they are only 40 miles away. Their shipping rates are terrible for sure.
Not to get off subject here, but the more rod builders that stop using Mud Hole as a supplier the sooner they will come back down to earth. There are a lot of other sources out there.
Alcohol Torches are not that expensive and most suppliers have them, you shouldn't have a problem getting one on line or at some of the better tackle shops.
I've used a shot glass with alcohol instead of an alcohol lamp when I just started...but that glass got freakin hot.
Thanks for the detailed tutorial Jon, will help me a lot in the future.
Jon
I have a few older rods that are finished with Varnish. Do you happen to have any? I know Mudhole has it & clean up is with water. I am in N.Y. so I can't get the rods to you.
Mike
Quote from: bluefish69 on December 07, 2014, 05:05:19 AM
Jon
I have a few older rods that are finished with Varnish. Do you happen to have any? I know Mudhole has it & clean up is with water. I am in N.Y. so I can't get the rods to you.
Mike
Hey Mike, unfortunately I do not stock the varnish. There is very little demand for it anymore except for refurbishing and traditional cane fly rods.
RE rod varnish: i just recently refurbished an old surfer for a friend, wood handle, cork fore, spiral wire guides held on by duct tape later covered with electrical tape (not kidding). ordered the varnish from Mudhole to stay period correct.....I HAVE TO REDO WHOLE ROD due to crappy leveling and air that would not release. I would tell you the name but i threw the remaining 3.5 ounces in the trash. i'm gonna redo it this weekend...probably 400 grit down to 000 wool and then three coats of gloss rattle can poly on the blank. Wraps: thinking about how to go low build with what i have on hand but will probably just hit the wraps with thread sealer (i'm using NCP thread but anyway) and see if one thin coat of flex coat high build will work on top of that to level. i wish I had taken pics of the crappy wood, cork and tape before i stripped it but i'll post a pic of the finished product and you be the judge. My guess is that this is a 1950's Harnell I'm doing based on the root beer blank.
Jon's guidance is great and had me LMAO as I read it; I certainly have FF'd a finish thinking it was set only to leave an FBI-dream fingerprint in it....at least i washed off the cheeto dust first....
Here are a few pictures of a rehab I am doing on an old rod similar to the one you are describing. This rod had a furl connecting the two halves, but I am changing it to a one piece by center boring the wood butt handle to except a 7/16" birch dowel that will insert into the blank and the butt, then installing a reel seat over the connection giving it double support. After that I am installing a tapered EVA fore grip. I'm not concerned with keeping this rod period correct rather I'm trying to improve it,s appearance and action. It's going to be interesting to see how it works for inshore fishing, and since the rod is mine and would have been a throw away I felt it would be a great way to see if it could be an option for other older rod repairs or upgrades.
Something just occurred to me about the finish you are looking for on that wood Butt Handle. I use a oil finish on gun stocks after checkering them that would look very nice on the wood butt handle, you can purchase it from Brownells on line. www.brownells.com Try it I think you will be very pleased with the results.
Just found this site and Mr. John's Rod crafting thread.
Regarding the epoxy finish. Instead of a flame I just use a hair dryer. The heat is more then adequate and no worries about burning anything. I always heat up the wrap first for about 30 seconds. This expands the air in the wrap and forces it out so when the epoxy is applied it cools the wrap and is sucked down into the threads. This also prevents bubbles in the finish. Contrary to popular thought the air bubbles that wreck your finish originate from the air in the threads not from the epoxy. Some small bubbles can originate in the epoxy but when heated after application they are all eliminated. It's those bubbles that appear in your finish after 20 min. in the dryer that pre-heating the wrap eliminates. As John has mentioned a dust free wrap is important. I always use a vacuum cleaner with the brush attachment to vacuum clean the wraps and then go over them with the sticky side of that blue painters tape to remove any stubborn particles. This is particularly important with dark colored wraps that showcase any particle that will cling to the wrap. And don't worry about stirring up dust, just be careful and always aim the dryer up into the rod not down to the rod and blow up all the debris on your work bench.
Like John says there are a zillion ways to apply the epoxy. The above are some technique you may want to try.
My ...37 cents worth for your consideration.
Walt