Can someone who has one take it apart and post some photos? I like everything about this reel except for the single dog. I want to see what it looks like and how hard it would be to make this thing click. I don't trust a single ambassador style dog.
Quote from: drewsung on March 06, 2015, 01:08:16 AM
Can someone who has one take it apart and post some photos? I like everything about this reel except for the single dog. I want to see what it looks like and how hard it would be to make this thing click. I don't trust a single ambassador style dog.
That single dog is simply a back up to an AR bearing. Certainly a spring could be easily added to mod the dog to give you more piece of mind if you could stand the noise.
Dunno if the reels are available yet.
They're out. Lots of places to buy one at the Fred Hall Show. They're a lot narrower then the old ones. Spools the same, they now have a one piece frame so the left side is much thinner.
Just about to get a Torium 16 HGA as a back up reel, has anybody used one? Kinda hoping for some feedback or issues since it's a new model. Thanks.
Finally got a hold of a new Torium 16HG. Checked it out at the Fred Hall show and it looked good except for the fact that there is 1 ambassadeur style dog. The Shimano guy at the show said they learned their lesson on the gold Trinidads and older Toriums (ARB rusting out and ambassadeur style pawl failing under heavy drag loads) and since this model had a sealed ARB everything should be good. It can't cost that much more to put in an additional stud for another silent antireverse pawl - I believe this is to differentiate the Trinidad A over the new Torium. Anyway, I don't buy that this "sealed" ARB eliminates the possibility of antireverse failures - I think it just prolongs it. Time will tell. In the meantime, I was looking for a way to spring load the dog. Started with the old Trinidad DC parts TGT1303/TGT1304 and they went in without any mods. The setup is a little different as there is no top cover over the pawl. This design uses the main gear to keep everything in place. I'm going to fish it and see how it holds up. There might be a better spring solution....so far it seems to work. Let me know what you think.
Interesting that they are going all in with seals...Is there a seal on the handle side too??
Still, should be a fine reel for the money, though I might prefer the internals of a Fathom.
Not much of a seal on the handle side (no rubber gasket like in the picture). There was a layer of grease on the habdle side. Much better seal but saltwater is still going to get in there.
That picture sucks but the handle side looks pretty much like the Trinidad except there is no bearing there. 2 bellvilles and a washer then the roller clutch inner tube.
o dear, that seems like about 10 screws to undo just to get to the spool bearings. And the same problem as with the new Trinidad, you can't fill it to the brim and still fit a thick leader.
A step backwards in the name of 'progress'!!!!
Cheers from sunny Africa,
Jeri
Is there anything holding the anti-reverse pawl in?
(http://alantani.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=13334.0;attach=11647;image)
I'd be worried that it may come pop out if the reel gets bumped. With the Abu-style pawl, it would stay in place because it's secured to the racket by the pawl's fins.
Check out the first picture. The main gear keeps it in place. I bent the curly part of the spring to keep it from trying to slip. So far it is working. I was worried about the spring coming off too but so far I haven't had an issue after I bent it.
Internals look very similar to the original torium. What other changes did they make besides seal ARB
Pinion assist bearing, got rid of the dirtanium drags, smaller body, smaller spool, new handle, different coating on body. Something like that
Quote from: drewsung on March 30, 2015, 03:25:52 PM
Pinion assist bearing, got rid of the dirtanium drags, smaller body, smaller spool, new handle, different coating on body. Something like that
Why are they changing all the modern reels into darn little bass reels?
Quote from: CapeFish on March 30, 2015, 06:33:47 PM
Quote from: drewsung on March 30, 2015, 03:25:52 PM
Pinion assist bearing, got rid of the dirtanium drags, smaller body, smaller spool, new handle, different coating on body. Something like that
Why are they changing all the modern reels into darn little bass reels?
The fact of the matter is that probably 95% of the USA saltwater recreational catch can be landed with 200 yards of 30lb braid.
Basically, if the reel is strong enough then yes, what was formerly the size of an ultra-light trout or bass reel can land a 30lb salt water fish.
We fished 30lb mono for decades as the standard basic SW line....you only need a tiny reel to hold enough 30lb braid.
Quote from: johndtuttle on March 30, 2015, 06:42:39 PM
Quote from: CapeFish on March 30, 2015, 06:33:47 PM
Quote from: drewsung on March 30, 2015, 03:25:52 PM
Pinion assist bearing, got rid of the dirtanium drags, smaller body, smaller spool, new handle, different coating on body. Something like that
Why are they changing all the modern reels into darn little bass reels?
The fact of the matter is that probably 95% of the USA saltwater recreational catch can be landed with 200 yards of 30lb braid.
Basically, if the reel is strong enough then yes, what was formerly the size of an ultra-light trout or bass reel can land a 30lb salt water fish.
True, and our market is probably simply to small to have any impact on reel design, we like reels that can still cast with 800m of line on them e.g. the old Torium. I dread the day I have to start fishing all braid from the beach, will have to find a new job to pay for it all. As it is I go through about 6000m of mono in a season and I hate casting with braid, on top of it you have to change all your rod eyes to insanely expensive Fuji SiC eyes.
We fished 30lb mono for decades as the standard basic SW line....you only need a tiny reel to hold enough 30lb braid.
yea, the new Torium 30 holds 350 yards of 30lb mono but the days of the large market for big old star drags is ending...
Or beginning if you take a look at the new "USA Senator" the wide one holds 580 yards of 40lb and is specifically designed for shore casting to large fish.
;)
Quote from: johndtuttle on March 30, 2015, 08:14:30 PM
yea, the new Torium 30 holds 350 yards of 30lb mono but the days of the large market for big old star drags is ending...
Or beginning if you take a look at the new "USA Senator" the wide one holds 580 yards of 40lb and is specifically designed for shore casting to large fish.
;)
350 yards of 30lb. Mono is still A LOT of capacity when speaking in terms of braid, which is all I fish!
Quote from: fIsHsTiiCkS on March 30, 2015, 09:11:44 PM
Quote from: johndtuttle on March 30, 2015, 08:14:30 PM
yea, the new Torium 30 holds 350 yards of 30lb mono but the days of the large market for big old star drags is ending...
Or beginning if you take a look at the new "USA Senator" the wide one holds 580 yards of 40lb and is specifically designed for shore casting to large fish.
;)
350 yards of 30lb. Mono is still A LOT of capacity when speaking in terms of braid, which is all I fish!
O yea its huge. Like 7-800 yards of 60lb braid. Far too much for use on pretty much anything that could actually pull that hard. Hence the trend towards smaller and smaller reels.
Quote from: johndtuttle on March 30, 2015, 08:14:30 PM
yea, the new Torium 30 holds 350 yards of 30lb mono but the days of the large market for big old star drags is ending...
Or beginning if you take a look at the new "USA Senator" the wide one holds 580 yards of 40lb and is specifically designed for shore casting to large fish.
;)
OK, there is light at the end of the tunnel, that means it is close to the capacity of a Trinidad 40 or 50 e.g. at least 600m of 65lb braid and 200-300m 0.6mm topshot, now to try and find one in South Africa..........
Quote from: drewsung on March 30, 2015, 03:25:52 PM
Pinion assist bearing, got rid of the dirtanium drags, smaller body, smaller spool, new handle, different coating on body. Something like that
Ok, I finally got a chance to open the new Torium 30 HG this past weekend. Too busy with household chores. ;)
According to the Shimano description, the frame is smaller because they made the left sideplate one-piece attached to the frame. This gives the user a feeling of handling a "smaller reel". However, the size of the spool is suppose to be the same size as the older model Torium 30.
The overall weight of the reel is lighter than the original Torium because Shimano now uses an aluminum handle and star as opposed to the heavy metal ones they got on the original Toriums.
The new HG model comes with a seal on above the ARB which is good, but I don't know exacly how water tight it really is. They got rid of the handle shaft bearing which now allowed them to make the roller clutch taller.
In reference to the Pinion Assist Bearing, some might call it a "Pinion Bearing", I would say that it is mostly there for stucture matters or keeping the spool shaft aligned. This pinion bearing is NOT a function that provides a "free floating spool" effect like the Sealine SHA reels. This bearing, is nicely and easily accessed from the outside of the sideplate as opposed to fighting it on the inside in a deep recessed small hole. The pinion design is still exactly like the older Torium pinion and it does not touch or come into contact with the bearing at all. When I fully assembled the reel and put the eccentric lever into cast mode, I cranked the handle and the spool began to spin. This is how I know it does not have the free floating spool effect. With the sealine, in cast mode, if you crank the handle, the spool will absolutely not move. This function suppose to give the caster a real good freespool. Now in the past, I did notice that there were times (not often) where the end of the spool shaft was scrubbing the inside area right under the cast control cap. Now, by having the end of the spool shaft sitting in this bearing, it really helps to stabalize the shaft and keep things more alligned. It is exacly like the same concept of having a bigger spacer ring on the penn senator gear sleeve or how a lot of other reels utilize a bearing on the gear sleeve to provide more stability to the gearsleeve under load.
Sorry for the second posting. Sometimes if I write too much, the computer times out and I lose everthing.
Here we go....
For the spring loaded dog. Like Bryan, I too have tried this and am very weary or hesitant in having it just sit by the eccentric spring post. When I did it, I found the other end of the dog spring to pop loose and the dog became useless. I think the dog is actually held inplace not by the gearbox, but by the inside of the sideplate when the sideplate is secured onto the frame.
I had already gotten a screw and measured everthing last night, but I didn't have the appropriate drill bit to make the proper hole. I now have the drill bit and will be installing the post into the baseplate this evening. Luckily, the baseplate is plastic which will make things easier. :) When I tested the post layout, the spring loaded dog worked perfectly. Now I just got to do the drill thing and secure the post.
Hopefully, Shimano claims that the new frame paint is much more corrosion resistant than the previous model. Only time will tell. The older model toriums have a real corrosion problem. :-\ Hopefully this one is better. :)
Wish me luck in my measurements for the dog spring post. Like my shop teacher always preeched... measure twice cut or drill once. ;)
Thanks Bryan for helping me post some of the pictures of the dog spring post. As you can see, the rounded part of the pawl spring is now secured around the post which will help stabilize the other end of the pawl spring from shaking loose. Now when the sideplate is secured, it will hold the pawl in place and the spring will remain in place and allow the pawl to click normally. Again, it appears that the innards of the sideplate is what is held against the pawl from lifting and becoming dismantled. I am hoping that Shimano is not relying on the fins of the pawl that is secured to the ratchet gear to keep the pawl in place.
When time permits, I will be testing it with rigorous casting, reeling, and shaking in hopes it withstands the test of fisherman.
Aloha, :)
That looks good. I bent the curly end of the spring and let it sit against the post. Fished it for the last couple weeks and have had no issues. Caught 4 yellowtail and made a couple hundred casts.
Thank you for the effort, wondering if you took picks of the spool and frame and if you would be able to post them if you have?
Awesome post :)
Quote from: CapeFish on March 30, 2015, 06:33:47 PM
Why are they changing all the modern reels into darn little bass reels?
LOL
My same thoughs, shimano is doing some great things to some reel, but on others they are cutting some corners on the former quality used and making a really good reel into a just good reel, example curado E vs curado G, calcutta TE vs calcutta D , etc, etc.
Many of those changes arw good or bad depending on the eye of the beholder but I liked the reel offerings of some previous models over the currents
Hi friends, im writing from Uruguay, sorry for my bad english.
Do these reels have centrifugal brakes? Can you post some photos of the cast control mechanism?
Thanks!!
Quote from: ggadea on August 10, 2015, 01:05:26 AM
Hi friends, im writing from Uruguay, sorry for my bad english.
Do these reels have centrifugal brakes? Can you post some photos of the cast control mechanism?
Thanks!!
Other than the right side cap of the pinion bearing there is no other type of braking feature.
Quote from: johndtuttle on August 10, 2015, 05:06:48 PM
Quote from: ggadea on August 10, 2015, 01:05:26 AM
Hi friends, im writing from Uruguay, sorry for my bad english.
Do these reels have centrifugal brakes? Can you post some photos of the cast control mechanism?
Thanks!!
Other than the right side cap of the pinion bearing there is no other type of braking feature.
So this reel it´s not recommended for surf casting?
Quote from: ggadea on August 14, 2015, 12:27:18 AM
Quote from: johndtuttle on August 10, 2015, 05:06:48 PM
Quote from: ggadea on August 10, 2015, 01:05:26 AM
Hi friends, im writing from Uruguay, sorry for my bad english.
Do these reels have centrifugal brakes? Can you post some photos of the cast control mechanism?
Thanks!!
Other than the right side cap of the pinion bearing there is no other type of braking feature.
So this reel it´s not recommended for surf casting?
Many people use them for casting but the reel does make it a little more challenging. You have to protect your thumb and use it as a casting brake to control the line.
Hi Ggadea,
Many folks here use the Toriums for surf casting - HOWEVER - the rod needs to have a very fast tip action to cope with the speed of the reel. Softer low spec carbon rods, and those made of glass fibre will never generate the speed to be able to use the Torium and faster reels.
We have found with some of the latest rod designs, that the very high strength carbon construction actually need such fast reels to make them most effective. If te rod generates very high sinker speed at the point of release, then the reel needs to be fast enough to deliver line to match that speed - hence the use of some of the Torium and faster reels.
Hope that helps.
Cheers from sunny Africa
Jeri
Quote from: Jeri on August 14, 2015, 07:26:26 AM
Hi Ggadea,
Many folks here use the Toriums for surf casting - HOWEVER - the rod needs to have a very fast tip action to cope with the speed of the reel. Softer low spec carbon rods, and those made of glass fibre will never generate the speed to be able to use the Torium and faster reels.
We have found with some of the latest rod designs, that the very high strength carbon construction actually need such fast reels to make them most effective. If te rod generates very high sinker speed at the point of release, then the reel needs to be fast enough to deliver line to match that speed - hence the use of some of the Torium and faster reels.
Hope that helps.
Cheers from sunny Africa
Jeri
Hi Jeri!! thanks for your response.
I have many carbon rods and here they are very expensives but i think in this country do not reach best quality rods.
I think I would go for a daiwa saltist 20 star drag for surf casting fishing.
Cheers
Quote from: ggadea on August 14, 2015, 12:27:18 AM
Quote from: johndtuttle on August 10, 2015, 05:06:48 PM
Quote from: ggadea on August 10, 2015, 01:05:26 AM
Hi friends, im writing from Uruguay, sorry for my bad english.
Do these reels have centrifugal brakes? Can you post some photos of the cast control mechanism?
Thanks!!
Other than the right side cap of the pinion bearing there is no other type of braking feature.
So this reel it´s not recommended for surf casting?
. it's not ideal, but if you're proficient and experienced with casting, then it can work. When I am throwing big baits and heavy lead, I use a shimano tld 15/30 star drag reel with straight, good quality 30lb mono (no shock leader). It has no magnetic and centrifigul cast control feature. Again, I use penn 320gt2s off of jetties. For real distance, i have an akios 656ctm or an abu 5500. the akios has both mag and centrifigul breaking, which I spool with 15 - 20lb mono with a minmum of 30lb /40lb shock leader. I never use the mag on it and rarely even need to use the centrifugul breakes either. It all depends on your ability as a caster.
"Hi Jeri!! thanks for your response.
I have many carbon rods and here they are very expensives but i think in this country do not reach best quality rods.
I think I would go for a daiwa saltist 20 star drag for surf casting fishing."
Hi Ggadea,
If you are using a reel that small - consider the original Shimano Torium 14, lovely little rel, and it has brake block for centrifugal braking. Probably has a faster speed capability than the Diawa, and more robust for surf conditions.
Cheers
Jeri
does it has full metal body frame?
i mean that right side plate (gear case) and main frame is all metal...??? looks like the side plate is graphite... but i am not sure from the picture... ???
thanks.... ;)
It's all aluminum and made very well.
I just bought the 16HG because it's on sale. The roller clutch in these reels is much better than the ones used in the older Torium and Trinidad reels. It's taller with thinner (more) needle bearings. It's rubber sealed on both sides. Inside and out.
Just grease it up on the outside like we always do and the clutch will last until it wears out.
I don't think the spring loaded dog is needed in these smaller reels. I'll find out with a big amberjack!! It will be fun trying...
I just purchased a new Torium 30HGA and plan to use it strictly as for bottom/wreck fishing. I fish off the Mid New Jersey coast usually in 60-225' and have it spooled with 40# braid and 50#mono backing. This reel holds A LOT of 40# braid. :)
Has anyone used this reel for other than surfcasting? I'd appreciate any replies provided.
Tight Lines!