Greetings Ohana,
I just bought an ocean master 12' heavy surf rod after reading quite a few reviews.
Even watched a nice video from a guy tossing lead in Waipio.
I plan on pairing this with a suped-up XN squidder.
Looking for feedback/thoughts from the community on this setup. (I still birdnest the reel 33% of the time with 50lb PowerPro)
I need to force myself to practice and get good at distance casting a conventional
Thanks,
Nick
Tampa, FL
I'm not sure what the target species is in Tampa. Unless it is something that is going to give you a really long run, you should be fine. That reel should hold somewhere around 200 yards of that line, assuming a 75 to 100 yard cast, you still have a good bit of line on there. I would probably fish that rod with a 146, but that is only because I have options.
I'm guessing most will say you need a bigger reel.
The Man
I don't think a XN Squidder is the right reel for a long surf rod. You should at least use a standard width or a wide version so that the diameter of the line on the spool doesn't change that much during the cast causing an overrun. An XN is more useful as a jigging reel. JMO Rudy
I have several of these rods for drum fishing. My suggestion on reels is to forget the squidder and ditch the braid. Go with a more modern reel with magnetic or centrifugal brakes such as:
Penn Squall 15
Penn Fathom 15
Daiwa Saltist sttbg30h
Daiwa Seagate
Penn 525 Mag
Seriously, don't use braid. When it birdnests you will be hating life. Mono is so much easier to work with and casts very well. Load it with 16-20lb mono such as Berkley Big Game, Suffix Tritanium, or even the Offshore Angler brand at Bass Pro.
Quote from: 1badf350 on September 02, 2019, 06:19:41 AM
In have several of these rods for drum fishing. My suggestion on reels is to forget the squidder and ditch the braid. Go with a more modern reel with magnetic or centrifugal brakes such as:
Penn Squall 15
Penn Fathom 15
Daiwa Saltist sttbg30h
Daiwa Seagate
Penn 525 Mag
Seriously, don't use braid. When it birdnests you will be hating life. Mono is so much easier to work with and casts very well. Load it with 16-20lb mono such as Berkley Big Game, Suffix Tritanium, or even the Offshore Angler brand at Bass Pro.
Mono casts far easier then braid and braid gets worse as the gets some "use". Absolutely agree with choice of magged reel for casting.
If rod is as heavy as I think, then I would go for stronger mono and good leader. What weight do you plan to cast?
I echo what has been said. 12-20lb mono with a 50-60lb shock leader. For the reel a magged Abu/Akios 6500 (maybe a 5500 if you go with 12lb mono - lighter line casts better). When I used to beach/surf fish I used an Akios Shuttle 551 with 12lb mono - 150yds plus was usual (sometimes the bait stayed on as well ;D). A lot depends on the fish size and structure you are fishing over.
On the flipside fill the squidder with 20lb braid and have at it.If you can become proficent at casting that you could cast just about anything. 20lb mono and a bigger reel would be ideal.
I appreciate all the help.
I'll only be in Tampa another 4 months, then it's up to DC until the summer.
Then it's to a place on the Mediterranean that is NOT known for great fishing.
None the less, I plan on tossing lead from the rocks as far as I can reach.
I'll start looking at the reels suggested.
Nick
Besides the abu 6500 TPC, what should I be looking for in a 6500?
Also looking at squall and fathom 15
Here is another that has decent reviews. Never tried it though.
https://amzn.to/2zgNDZz
Quote from: ReelFishingProblems on September 02, 2019, 07:03:27 PM
I appreciate all the help.
I'll only be in Tampa another 4 months, then it's up to DC until the summer.
Then it's to a place on the Mediterranean that is NOT known for great fishing.
None the less, I plan on tossing lead from the rocks as far as I can reach.
I'll start looking at the reels suggested.
Nick
Yo. It would appear things are moving as you mentioned which we can discuss later. Text me what you are fishing for and weight you are trying to throw and I'll see if I can send you a reel- Regular Squidder w/ 20 mono or 501. 6500 is a good choice. You were born with cast control- called an opposable thumb...:)
A good bet is a Daiwa SlSH 30...they can be had cheap used...525 Mag pretty much bring what they brought new.
Geez, I disagree with just about everything that has been said; except for the part about getting a reel with modern brakes.
I squandered my youth with a 140, 20# mono, and a long surf rod. I put in the hours, but never did get any good at casting the thing. When I pick up that rig today it seems huge and heavy considering the task at hand.
Proportional braking, either centrifugal or magnetic, is the great equalizer. Just throw that thumb away; you don't need it any more. Backlashing can become a thing of the past.
Braided spectra was the best thing to happen to fishing since the earth worm. Compared to mono, braid will greatly reduce the size of the spool for the same line yardage and pound test. The smaller, lighter spool and smaller diameter line will always cast farther. A backlash can be more difficult to pick out when using braid but, hey, backlashing became a thing of the past.
Compared to the older reels and mono, a modern reel filled with braid is not only more effective, it is more ergonomically efficient. There is less weight to carry around and less fatigue at the end of the day. It is like the difference between graphite and fiberglass rods.
You went with the modern graphite/glass composition rod. If you're going to handicap yourself with the squidder then you might as well get an old harnell or tobacco rod to go with it..... in my opinion.
-steve
Thank you all for the dialogue on this.
I'm not sure what I will be targeting yet.
For the next four months I will be workin on my cast close to home into the Tampa bay. Where i'm located, it is a nice silt/sand bottom with no structure. I can cast, retrieve, repeat.
I may take it out to the Clearwater, FL beaches on the Gulf of Mexico for snook/reds/drum/etc.
Nick
Squall 15 is basically the modernized 525, a great reel. If you go 6500, get a CT model (no level wind).
Quote from: Swami805 on September 02, 2019, 02:20:40 PM
On the flipside fill the squidder with 20lb braid and have at it.If you can become proficent at casting that you could cast just about anything. 20lb mono and a bigger reel would be ideal.
This. Never anything wrong with figuring it out.
The Man
The Newest Ocean Master Rods are really Nice. I have several, just in the spinning Variety.
The 12 footer can chunk a lot of weight. This is no spaghetti Ugly stick. It means Business.
I am using big Spinners with 100 lb braid. One trip to the beach and I am ready.
Carbon Coil Technology.
Quote from: thorhammer on September 03, 2019, 01:34:18 PM
If you go 6500, get a CT model (no level wind).
CT's do not come cheap. There are some upgrade parts for a CT conversion from other models too.
-steve
I'm just repeating what others have mentioned, invest in a nice modern reel with casting control (Mag or centrifugal) and you won't regret it. I use an Avet SX for surf and I can get good distance with few blowups, and here in California we're *ALWAYS* casting into the wind.
Read through the various elements of this thread and came out totally perplexed about what is trying to be achieved.
Having spent the last 15 years building surf rods for a very competitive market, that has evolved and changed with changes in technology. We started with 14' rods fitted with all different variants of modern multipliers loaded with nylon main line and nylon casting leaders - but the over riding theme of the reels were the centrifugal or magnetic braking mechanisms to cope with the fundamental problem of crows nests induced by poor casting styles - the results across the board were pretty much casts going beyond 100 metres to 180 metres with various baits attached.
Then braid became a feature, and while some tried it, it required significantly more braking to tame the spooling of line in the casts, with the resultant loss in distance. Though the benefits of bite detection and lack of stretch were observed. Despite a lot of technology to overcome the crows nest problems with braid, it always lost out on distances achieved.
The next step in the evolution was to change the reel to a fixed spool or spinner, and use the braids on that - and hey presto worry free casting, awesome distances and all the benefits of braid to be enjoyed while fishing. The biggest factor in the changeover was that the distances gained virtually by each and every angler was at least 20-30 metres more than their previous best with mono. We do now in our surf competitions see some of the younger guys actually dropping baits out as far as 200 metres!!!
So, for a surf fishing situation with the desire to use braid, it is a no brainer - go for a fixed spool/spinner type reel, and spend more time fishing, than undoing crows nest .... :)
This is an interesting thread, but joining the party late. Nick, what's your main goal, trying hard to get bit, or becoming a proficent surf caster with a specific reel type, such as a conventional or levelwind baitcaster? For example getting good with a vinatge conventional would be fun, but trial & error. Kinda like practicing your golf swing. "Tossing lead from the rocks as far as you can" with a conventional for me would = both centrifical & magnetic controls, sans the levelwind. A 6500 CT as was suggested? Does it have centrifical?
Jeri,
I'd love to see what you are doing different. I can cast braid on a boat or surf rod with a conventional about 50% further than I can any spinner I have tried. Of course, I don't use brakes on my conventionals. Is there a different technique with spinners?
Ron Jones
I fish off the rocks with a Shimano Ultegra spinner on a 10.5 ft. Loomis IMX. The reel with it's "super slow oscillation" and "long spool design" is specialy made for surf-fishing. With 30lb. braid/10ft. Mono. leader, I can cast a ~ 1.5 oz. swimbait a looooong way. Some of those competition conventional surfcaster's could probably beat my best...maybe. I'd love to see it, though.
Sorry Nick, goin ona tangent here.
No worries on tangents, I love it.
It's a spiderweb of knowledge
Quote from: Ron Jones on September 10, 2019, 06:08:38 PM
Jeri,
I'd love to see what you are doing different. I can cast braid on a boat or surf rod with a conventional about 50% further than I can any spinner I have tried. Of course, I don't use brakes on my conventionals. Is there a different technique with spinners?
Ron Jones
Have problems posting pictures, but our local surf angling association has a web site which has a number of action shots of folks fishing in our local surf conditions with mostly fixed spools in the later/recent images.
https://namshoreangling.com.na/
We used to fish almost exclusively with nylon monofilament, but then our rules changed to allow the use of braid as a main line, and once we got the techniques sorted, the rods' actions modified and the guide placement systems sorted; most people that changed over immediately got a 20-30 metre increase in their distance without fundamental change in casting techniques - basically a local variant of the Hatteras style.
One aspect of near all southern African surf angling is that we use quite long rods with the reel in a low position (about 10" up from the butt), this was the same with multipliers as we use a boat fishing rod holder belt to support the base of the rod while fishing. This layout generally allows anglers to make a lot more power in the cast, than reels in a high position, and hence get more distance. The changeover to fixed spool (spinners) from multipliers has allowed anglers to put a lot more aggression into the cast - to the point where it is very physical - this is because there is no longer a fear of getting a crows nest - impossible with a fixed spool reel.
Braid being lighter and offering less friction over mono also helps the situation.
The only drawback of fixed spool reels is that once you have 150 metres of line out - in flight, there tends to be more friction on the lip of the spool as the line level goes down, and this is a trait that is obviously not applicable to multipliers. In a European environment - this led to the development of 'long cast' spools, which are much taller than conventional boat spools, and significantly reduce this line out friction issue.
In situations where casting style and power and technique are the only consideration - where variables like line thickness are neutralise (ie tournament casting), a fixed spool reel will be about 5-10 metres less than a multiplier at the very top levels, but then those guys are approaching 300 metres in their casting distances. What hasn't officially been explored anywhere is what happens when you allow the fixed spool reel users to use braid instead of nylon. The general consensus is that braid and fixed spool in those circumstances will exceed the distances of multiplier and mono.
Another circumstance of the various surf casting variations, is that there is a tendency in the US to use shorter rods than are commonly used in Europe or even southern Africa, where it is pretty normal to see rods at least 14' long, and not unusual to see 15' or more; where the norm in the US seems to be more 10-12' long rods - which offer less leverage to get distance.
Hope that helps.