I'm fixing a Senator 113 HL W that has a siezed drag. There is so much corrosion on the drag stack, that I can't get the washers out of the main gear and I can't get the main gear off the drive shaft. I have peeled off the top metal washers and one drag washer, I'm down to the eared washer, but the stack is totally siezed. Any suggestions on how to break this apart? Really need some help. Thanks.
Put the handle screw back in the gear sleeve to protect the end then put the screw on a block of wood, tap the gear off with a plastic hammer or screwdriver handle, it might take some hard hits to get it moving.
If you concentrate on releasing the main gear from the sleeve, the washers will most likely break free. Throw some Kroil around, let sit for the night then go with the hammer tapping gently, or better yet ask someone to tap one side of the gear while you tap the other... usually works out better that way.
Good luck,
Dom
What's Kroil? I've got a pool of boeshield penetrant on the eared washer, maybe some will soak in. There's black crystally corrosion right next to the shaft, I've scraped that smooth, and used a dental pick to get some penetrant down into the stack. I'll let it soak, then give it a whack. Thanks for the suggestions. I'm probably going to need all new washers and drags to reassemble, don't you think?
Kroil is one of the best penetrating oils on the market.
http://www.kanolabs.com/ (http://www.kanolabs.com/)
You might be able to salvage the metal washers but it's a not quick and easy, the fiber washers are shot.
Give the boeshield a shot, it may work, it's pretty good stuff, but have to agree with Lee... Kroil is da bomb!
Hope it works
Dom
small screw driver or ice pick and a hammer.... :-\
Quote from: alantani on January 07, 2013, 08:24:39 AM
small screw driver or ice pick and a hammer.... :-\
X2
Place the gear upside down on apiece of wood and hit the tip of the washers using a screwdriver and a small hammer. Do this at different spots and it should come out. if the hammer and screwdriver doesn't help, toss everything in the trash and don't waste your time. New gears for these reels are not that costly.
The washers will be shot, maybe you could save the metal washers, but you won't need them.
Dawn, at smoothdrag has some replacement washers, but I'm not sure if she has the kit.
I get my kits from here:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/PENN-DRAG-WASHER-KIT-6-113HSP-/150856928446?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item231fc60cbe
Good luck!
Sal
I've had to soak the gear in hot vinegar to get the bottom fiber washer and keyed washer out on a few reels, greased CF washers cure this problem. BTW, muratic acid does not play well with a brass gear >:(
I think I found the root cause of the stuck stack. The eared washer appears to have wedged into the side of the drive gear, so mechanically, the washer stack is stuck on the shaft. The eared washer is probably digging into the side of the shaft too, but I can't get a good photo to show that.
(http://i1280.photobucket.com/albums/a489/bb2fish/Senator%20113HLW/IMG_0134_zpsedafedba.jpg)
(http://i1280.photobucket.com/albums/a489/bb2fish/Senator%20113HLW/IMG_0137_zps539c739c.jpg)
I was able to free the fiber washer below the main gear using a razor blade - it freely spins now, but I still can not remove the drive gear. If I could twist the eared washer back so the ears were aligned in the groove, then maybe the main gear off would slide on the shaft. It's probably all damaged -- inside the main gear on the ear groove, and probably the shaft going to the bridge -- so looks like I need new gear and bridge. I'm still stubborn - How could I twist that eared washer counter clockwise inside the gear?
Thanks for the link to order the drag kit, got one ordered, might be ordering the rest of the parts later today or when I give up. Gotta get me some Kroil too.
Sometimes you can twist and pull the gear off but you will probably have to tap the gear off, if it is the ear the stack should fall out. The fiber washers look like the old asbestos containing ones, be careful.
I'm gonna have to agree with Sal at this point... leave it alone and buy new... it'll work forever when you take care of it with the A.T. treatment.
Lee's right, stay away from banging on the asbestos washers, you wanna make it till your next birthday ;)
Dom
Thanks Guys. In the bucket now.
You can drift out the gearsleeve retaining pin and separate the bridge and sleeve. Next soak the drag stack in oil to prevent asbestos fibers from doing damage to your health and tap the gearsleeve out. After the gearsleeve is out you can trash the drag stack and be able to use the sleeve, gear and bridge. The leftover drag washers should be disposed properly (asbestos).
Quote from: broadway on January 07, 2013, 06:33:32 PM
.....you wanna make it till your next birthday ;)
Dom
Asbestos is not that bad but I wouldn't snort lines of it...or breath any now. When I worked in the powerhouse we were exposed to asbestos daily. One time a fist size chunk bounced off my hard hat and I was in a cloud of dust, over 30 years ago. I filled out a accident report and an asbestos exposure form after I screamed at the idiot dragging the bag of asbestos down the stairs above me.
I put asbestos drag washers in a heavy ziploc bag for disposal.
The brass sleeve looks like it's damaged from the eared washer, so there isn't much to salvage by pushing out the pin. Good suggestion. I think that's why the main gear will not come off the sleeve in the first place - the washer is gouging into the sleeve shaft AND into the inside of the main gear with the ears. It's really buggered. I think the root cause of this whole mess is a missing coil spring on the dog. There wasn't one in there -- the reel had been serviced about 5 years ago, then when it failed to work, it sat on the shelf for a couple years until now.
The owner purchased this new around 2005, do you think it still had asbestos drags in that year of manufacture? I could pick off a few washers from the stack, the top-most non metal washer that did come off looks like carbontex drags. Or is this asbestos?
(http://i1280.photobucket.com/albums/a489/bb2fish/Senator%20113HLW/IMG_0109_zps72548ab0.jpg)
Thanks so much for your comments.
The washer in this photo is HT-100 and asbestos free.
Is HT-100 a material name? Is that the same as Carbontex, or is that another material name?
Phew - glad to know it's not asbestos.
Ht-100 (Penn), Carbontex (Smooth Drag) and Dartanium II (Shamano) are proprietary names for carbon fiber drag washers. I prefer Dawn's Carbontex.
I'm more stubborn than a stuck drag stack. Finally broke the stack free after soaking and picking for 4 days. Doesn't look like any damage to the drive gear ear wells or the bridge shaft now that everything is clean. Just really corroded the fiber washers were like glue.
So, I got my new stack of washers 6-113HSP from the ebay link - the replacement stack is not the same as the old stack. There's one thicker keyed washer, and I don't know where this goes in the whole stack. Do I just put it on top of the last thin keyed washer? Then the tapered washer on top of that inside the bridge?
Bridge
HT
Main Gear
HT
keyed
HT
ear
HT
keyed
HT
ear
HT
keyed
thick keyed
tapered washer (tapered from ID to OD, so I don't know if it should be installed as a funnel or a volcano on the shaft) ?? Wish I would have taken a good picture of that one on disassembly - which way should it point?
Part 8A in the schematic looks a little thicker, but it's called tension spring drag and looks like it's on top of the whole drag stack almost identical to the keyed washer just thicker. Part 8 is called tension spring, but it looks like a curved washer (like one bellville).
Thanks
The thicker keyed washer should be on the top of the drag stack like you thought, the Belleville spring washer (the cone shaped one) should be put on top of the drag stack with the high part toward the star and away from the last keyed washer.
On my personal reels I loose the last thin keyed and put the thick one on top of the last CF washer. Then fill the space with another bellville under the star (thanks for the tip Bryan) with the high part toward the drag stack.
Thanks Lee and others! The reel is back together and perfectly functional!!!
Wow, I'm just so pleased...never knew I could do that. Thanks for the help on this forum.