I grew up fishing with Mitchel 300s amd Penn conventionals. I actually didn't know that other reels existed until I was about 10 or so. I'd like to get a vintage Mitchel for surf fishing however, I am totally lost with the numbering and sizes of the saltwater reels. I'm hoping someone can help.
I know that the 302 started the deal and was a large 300 that was replaced with the 386. I think that a 4 means high speed and so a 486 would be a hi speed large 300. What I don't know is if 386 is the largest Mitchel or if there are any functionally undesirable models. It also seems that in the 80s they switched to external skirts and put a 9 in the name to identify the reel. Like the 396. I have found a 497 wich would be like my dream reel unless, of course, there is a mechanical issue with it that I don't know about or the is a bigger high speed external skirted Mitchel set up for a South Paw.
If there is a Mitchel histrian around, I could use some help.
Thanks
Ron
Hi Ron --
While not a Mitchell "Expert", a few others on the site, as well as myself, may be able to answer most questions you might have.
For further in-depth history of this fine old French Brand -- these folks are the experts:
http://mitchellreelmuseum.com/
I have found it scattering to try and be all things to all people -- so my specialties have been, and are:
DAM Quick, Mitchell, Cardinal, ABU, Penn, Daiwa, Shimano, Newell -- primarily.
There are also some very in depth books about Mitchell -- fascinating company.
Best,
Fred
Thanks Foakes. It appears that there was a larger reel than the 497, the 499. I have found it's capacity and it will be more than enough for surf fishing (360 Meters of .45MM) It is what I think I am after.
Ron
Hello,
I grew up fishing hand-me-down Mitchells including the models in question. You are correct in that models starting with a "4" designate hi-speed versions. For surf models this meant either a ratio of 4:1, or almost 5:1 for the 402. The smaller freshwater 300 has nothing in common mechanically with the larger surf models. Odd-numbered models designate left-hand versions. Off the top of my head, here is a breakdown of the surf-sized Mitchells grouped according to similarity (appreciate it if anyone else has additional notes/corrections they may want to add to the following):
498- Manual pickup, Skirted spool, Bronze main and pinion, 4:1 ratio, Approx. 400 yds 20lb test monofilament.
488- Bailed, Non-skirted spool version of the 498, Bronze main and pinion, 4:1 ratio, Approx. 400 yds 20lb monofilament.
496- Manual pickup, Skirted spool, Bronze main and pinion, 4:1 ratio, Approx. 300 yds 20lb monofilament.
396- Bailed version of the 496, Non-skirted spool, Aluminum alloy main and pinion, Approx. ratio of 3.6:1
386-Bailed, Non-skirted spool, Aluminum alloy main and pinion, Approx. ratio of 3.6:1, Approx. 350 yds 20lb mono.
302N- Last incarnation of the 386 circa late 70's. Same reel, just different model number.
486- Bailed, hi-speed version of the 386. Non-skirted spool, Bronze main and pinion, 4:1 ratio, Approx 350 yds 20lb mono.
402- Bailed, Non-skirted spool, Aluminum alloy main and pinion, 4.8:1 ratio, Approx 300 yds 20lb mono.
302- Bailed, Non-skirted spool, Aluminum alloy main and pinion, Approx. 3.6:1 ratio, Approx 300yds 20lb mono.
Notes:
302 and 402's are the most complicated to work on. 402's have been known to strip their gears due to way the hi-speed teeth are cut. 302's have a stronger gear train as each tooth fully engages the other at once, rather than gradually as in the 402. These reels have a regular hard-chromed line roller that, as in most Mitchells, rarely rolls. One high point of these reels is that the drag washers can be easily swapped out to either a 4 or 5-stack of carbon fiber using Penn 6-155 sized washers (if I remember correctly). Other options include a bronze crosswind cam for improved line-lay, manual pick-ups, and the ability to double-dog the 302. Incidentally the round power handle of the 402 can interchange with that of the 302 and 498, possibly others.
Manual pick-up 496 and 498's are highly desirable and pricy as they feature bronze gears and ball-bearing line rollers. The main gears were also supported by a roller-bearing rather than the usual bronze bushing. 396's can be retrofitted to manual pickup using parts from the 496. One downside in these and all the other surf models excluding 302/402's, is that the drag washers are not as easily swapped to carbon fiber. Rather than the usual stack of keyed/soft/eared washers, these reels have one large under-spool keyed soft washer, and a smaller one incorporated underneath the drag knob. For these washers Mitchell chose to use Ferrodo brake lining material. It was ok at low to mid level drag pressures, but tended to get sticky once the drag was cranked down.
386 and 302N's were winches that held a lot of line, but had slightly weaker aluminum alloy gears. Easy to work on.
486 and 488's had tungsten carbide line rollers that were stronger than the hard-chromed variety. Couple that with bronze gears and you can see why these reels command a higher price than their 386/302N relatives.
Hope the above info helps. Pictured are a few surf-model Mitchells I still own and fish: 498, 402, and 302.
(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c100/unchained_colors/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-08-28%2020.57.19_1.jpg) (http://s25.photobucket.com/user/unchained_colors/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-08-28%2020.57.19_1.jpg.html)
Chad
I apreciate the help Chad. With what you have given here and what I have read I think the 499 is for me. I'm not totally happy with the single stack drag, I may have to figure something out. I can cut any CF drag I want and so I'm sure a upgrade will be nice, but maybe not as progressive as I'd like.
Ron
Ron,
Cutting your own washer appears do-able, but I have not tried. Keep us posted if you do.
Here is a photo I just took of the 498's drag setup.(499 should be similar).
Note how the washer has four cut-outs that allow it to be keyed to the main shaft.
(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c100/unchained_colors/Mobile%20Uploads/20160123_180532.jpg) (http://s25.photobucket.com/user/unchained_colors/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20160123_180532.jpg.html)
Chad
Interesting,
Possibly the first versa-drag system. I bet I can make a multi stack that will give me more drag than I'll ever need. Thanks for the photo.
Ron
Ron-
No problem. Forgot to mention that the small drag washer is also keyed to the top of the shaft via the four metal drag knob "tabs". There is no space here I can see to add more washers, but perhaps something could be done to the larger washer on the bottom.
Fred-
Thanks for sharing that Mitchell Museum link. Lots of good reading there. I found out that my little 300 was made in 1962..;)
Chad
I think I have a larger Mitchel in my scrap tub, if you want it it is yours. I will look.
Quote from: Keta on April 22, 2016, 04:37:35 PM
I think I have a larger Mitchel in my scrap tub, if you want it it is yours. I will look.
I often wonder what other treasures may be discovered in your 'scrap tubs'.
Until I was over 60 I never threw anything even remotely useable away....you looking for a "vintage" trim/tilt pump for a Mercruser? Rebuilt Cessna hydraulic motor? "Vintage" 16d nails, some new some only used once but all with a nice rust patina? Need 200' of "vintage" field wire? Slightly used and barely bent T posts? Alan and Brian can tell you I have 50+ years of "stuff" around.
The only problem with the larger Mitchell's is the non existent main gears. The 402 and down are plentiful.
I grew up fishing them and too knew of no other except the Shakespear Sea Wonders. Even when the Penn spinning reels came out I stuck with the Mitchell's for a long time after.
If you want it Ron let me know. It is in good shape but stiff from petrified grease.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/14/1583_23_04_16_9_29_28.jpeg)
Plus, if any parts re needed, Ron -- I should have what you need.
Best,
Fred
I would love it, Lee!! Thank you very much. I'll give it a full service in May. I'll buy the room again for the 18 trip.
Thanks for the offer Fred. I'll see where it's at when I get into it.
Ron
Quote from: noyb72 on April 23, 2016, 09:42:37 PM
I would love it, Lee!! Thank you very much. I'll give it a full service in May. I'll buy the room again for the 18 trip.
Thanks for the offer Fred. I'll see where it's at when I get into it.
Ron
I will put it and a cat in a box and get them on the way.
The cat will fit in great with the 4 kittens I have making noise right now. One more chance at a tiger shark. 8)
Ron
I just acquired a bunch of the old Mitchell's. Plenty of 306 and 406 models. In the bottom was a very nice 488 with no corrosion anywhere. It cleaned up real nice. All it is missing is the red "Garcia" label above the 488 numbers and the round Garcia "G" in the center of the drag knob. The gears were not worn or noisy at all.
The high speed handle and all chrome is perfect. I'll get some pictures on here tomorrow.
Here we go..
I found 3 good 300's and a Penn 4300SS in a box of parts reels someone dumped off in my shop.
So,
After all this time, I finally won a 499 on the 'bay. Once I get it here I am going to go through it and hopefully have both Lee's 302 and the 499 ready to fish in Morro Bay. I'll try to do a write up, but it takes me a while to get anything out.
Ron
Quote from: foakes on January 24, 2016, 02:20:50 AM
Hi Ron --
While not a Mitchell "Expert", a few others on the site, as well as myself, may be able to answer most questions you might have.
For further in-depth history of this fine old French Brand -- these folks are the experts:
http://mitchellreelmuseum.com/
I have found it scattering to try and be all things to all people -- so my specialties have been, and are:
DAM Quick, Mitchell, Cardinal, ABU, Penn, Daiwa, Shimano, Newell -- primarily.
There are also some very in depth books about Mitchell -- fascinating company.
Best,
Fred
You forgot logging... ;D Dominick