... and speaking of growling gears, this one is loud. You may not be able to hear it in the video though.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QM8lDvN5D4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QM8lDvN5D4)
Homemade using some old Boston spur gears and metal bits from the hardware store.
The pinion comes as a rod that is cut and bored to size. A brass stem was brazed to the main. Aluminum plates. Aluminum tube, 4-40 stainless all-thread and stainless hex nuts for the posts. Stainless bridge and gear shaft.
A two-piece spool turned from PEEK plastic. The handle knob is also PEEK. Stainless spool shaft. Brass bushing.
Inspired by the likes of Robert Janssen and Mike MHC I have been trying to make a reel from scratch off-and-on for about five years. This is the first one that will go round and round. Below is the boneyard of past failures.
I still need to make a stand for it but may just lash the thing to a rod for test casting first. There is a stainless disc attached to the side of the spool so magnetic cast control can be added if needed. The free spool is not very good and it may have so much inherent friction that the magnets are not needed.
The acid test will be to catch something with it.
-steve
Very cool!
You're amazing, Steve !
I agree, that is amazing.
Steve with all those home made parts and the holding fixtures for brazing , that little bit of noise will go away after the break in period ...
I like the outboard bearing design , no jam nut to hold the settings ?
Are you doing this with that Taig lathe ?
Thank you gentlemen.
Quote from: oldmanjoe on August 09, 2020, 03:06:03 PM
Steve with all those home made parts and the holding fixtures for brazing , that little bit of noise will go away after the break in period ...
I like the outboard bearing design , no jam nut to hold the settings ? Are you doing this with that Taig lathe ?
Yes, Taig Micro Lathe and Proxxon Micro Mill. The bushings will vibrate loose and could benefit from a jam nut. They also need a screwdriver slot cut into them. Truthfully, all those hex nuts will vibrate loose. After a few test casts I will know if it is worth proceeding. The last step will be to take it all apart for the umteenth time and reassemble with blue Loctite.
-s
You for sure have a lot of patience, Steve! 8)
It looks like a fun project Steve, you've put a lot of thought into it.
There looks to be a couple of 'high speed' set ups in the boneyard?
Mike
Nice!
Good choice on the PEEK. How easy is it to work with?
-J
Quote from: mhc on August 09, 2020, 10:17:02 PM
There looks to be a couple of 'high speed' set ups in the boneyard?
Yeah, that's one thing I learned; the higher the gear ratio the more precise everything has to be. Getting the gears moving initially is the hard part and high gear ratios are more difficult to start up. I wish I knew how to fly fish.
Quote from: jurelometer on August 09, 2020, 10:18:49 PM
Good choice on the PEEK. How easy is it to work with?
It's good and bad. It cuts beautifully with a sharp tool. But, it's almost impossible to sand or polish. I don't know what's going on, but the sensation is that it work hardens if it is scraped or rubbed. It's like stainless in that respect, but much worse. The tensile strength is it's best asset. I made some small 4-40 machine screws and threaded blocks. They could be screwed together and taken apart (chucked in a reversing drill motor) hundreds of times but the threads did not wear out at all. I don't know of another plastic that can do that.
-steve
Update: This was a complete bust. Casting a 3/4 oz. jig, I expect 40 to 45 yards. I was willing to accept 35 yards from this reel. In the test, I could only get 20 yards and it sounded like shaking rocks in a tin can.
I suspect the problem is more about rigidity than alignment, per se. There is not enough rigidity to hold the alignment as the spool turns.
So, my precious new creation goes into the boneyard collection of failed attempts. But, I won't give up.
-steve
Fail or not this is a cool thread... Jeff
Really cool thread, 20 yards ain't bad considering
Just some thoughts ,Clearance between spool and side plate "concentric "
Spool balance line bore of the bearings when assembled .
Steve your work is amazing! Not a fail! Question, have you given any consideration to lash with the straight cut gears? Obviously they will contribute to noise, but maybe a couple extra thousands of lash might be giving you an oscillation in the gear train that is both reducing your distance and giving you that increased "coffee can of rocks" sound? I really look forward to seeing the next version, this is fascinating and thanks for sharing your skill! - john
Hey John. Before casting the reel is put in freespool by pulling the handle and main gear out away from the pinion. You can see it in the video but I forgot to describe. Without a freespool clutch it would probably cast about a foot.
-steve
Quote from: oldmanjoe on August 11, 2020, 01:50:17 AM
Just some thoughts ,Clearance between spool and side plate "concentric "
Spool balance line bore of the bearings when assembled .
Yeah, all those things are a little out of whack Joe. I can fiddle with it and get the spool to not rub. There is a little bit of spool wobble. You can sort of see it in the video. Getting the bearings and spool shaft aligned may be the hardest part. After it was all together, I had to go back and increase the play between spindles and journals. That makes it unreliable. It will often self-align if given the chance, but it is more susceptible to jumping out of alignment and binding.
-steve
I am amazed at what you've done here, and it sounds like you plan to continue with this project.
Many a time I've stated that its fun to catch a fish on a rod & lure you've made yourself. You are going one step further. I think its a great challenge and many hour of fun. Good luck with your next design!
I do suggest that you engrave a name/logo on to the reels so future generations will know where they originate from. Imagine someone from this site finding that pile of reels >100 years from now and posting a picture asking if anyone can identify these and the speculation that will ensue. ;D ;D
Quote from: Cor on August 11, 2020, 06:20:12 AM
I am amazed at what you've done here, and it sounds like you plan to continue with this project.
Many a time I've stated that its fun to catch a fish on a rod & lure you've made yourself. You are going one step further. I think its a great challenge and many hour of fun. Good luck with your next design!
I do suggest that you engrave a name/logo on to the reels so future generations will know where they originate from. Imagine someone from this site finding that pile of reels >100 years from now and posting a picture asking if anyone can identify these and the speculation that will ensue. ;D ;D
Agree 100%. Engrave name and #. Having the story behind these reels will make them so much more valuable and interesting.
I'm amazed and fascinated by your project Steve, please continue to post updates.
(https://www.quotemaster.org/images/e9/e9bc4a7bd1cb064b00c00a5ff0734f10.jpg)
Ya'll know, people have been making reels from scratch for about 150 years. You see homemade reels go by every once in a while. I recall someone over at ORCA who has a collection of them. Homemade clocks and small steam engines are more common and are a higher level of difficulty.
-s
:D Yer but you are on a island in the Pacific Ocean ,working under a tent .
Anybody could wrap string around a stick and call it a reel !
I decided to splurge on a one-piece spool. PEEK is sort of expensive so I hate to see it all turned to shavings. The length of the shavings indicates how nicely this stuff turns.
-s
edit: anybody know how to rotate photos that are attached from the gallery.
Quote from: oc1 on August 11, 2020, 08:49:19 PM
edit: anybody know how to rotate photos that are attached from the gallery.
Find the image in your
gallery.
Click on
edit.
Near the bottom of the options, you will see:
Rotate Image By Degrees
As J states, in the box ROTATE IMAGE BY DEGREES
type in 270
that will fix your photo issue,
Wayne
A couple thoughts. You probably thought of most of this, but just in case:
1. Greater lash (backlash) can sort of be approximated by moving the center distance a tiny bit farther apart. Might be something to try with a temporary sample mount part and some sort of screw adjuster to allow you to play with fine tuning the center distance. The gears will not be as strong this way compared to a true blacklash cut into the gears, but it looks like these gears are already pretty beefy for your purpose.
2. Having some sort of design that allows the main gear shaft to be supported on both sides will help keep it aligned better.
3. Bushings are generally not very tolerant of alignment issues. Ball bearings are actually a bit easier in this regard, if you do not mind using ball bearings. The longer the bushing, the better the support, but much more friction if the shaft is not aligned. Short bushings will wear out faster, but will be the most tolerant of poor alignment.
4. It seems to me that twisting load on the frame should not be affecting the alignment, in turn screwing up the casting distance. There is not much load on the frame during the cast.
5. Spinning the the assembled spool and spindle on some matched vblocks, and/or checking with a dial sweep indicator will show you how true the assembled spool is. If you are drilling the spindle hole without following up with a a ream, you might end up with a lot of wander in the spindle hole. I suspect that that 3 jaw chuck is not super accurate for centering as well, so you might be better off turning, drilling and reaming without re-chucking. Just leave a facing operation when have to rechuck to flip it around.
6. Leave those PEEK shavings out on the porch. Some bird otr rodent can build the world's most high tech nest :)
Keep posting please- This is great stuff!!!
-J
Thank you Wayne and Dave. I forgot that I have a gallery and just attach by clicking on the file in my hard drive. When you do that it does not put the photo in MY GALLERY. Will fuss it again later. I had to get a new computer several weeks ago and my life is in shambles.
The aluminum disc in the side of the plastic spool is for the magnetic braking that I am sure will be needed later. :)
Gear set and bridge from a 102 year old Shakespeare Service parts reel. That's cheating and may be that's sacrilegious but the reel was already missing parts.
I slapped red locktite on everything. Does anyone know how Loctite works? Is there something that reacts with the metal? It will help PEEK bind but you can still remove it with enough force.
-steve
My last failure had 4:1 gears. These are 3.5:1. I almost went with 2:1 but with the small spool it would be painfully slow.
The 3.5:1 gears with a two-point bridge from 1918 seems to be transitional. About five years earlier you would have only seen 2:1 without a bridge. About five years later everything was 4:1. The 4:1 (AKA Quadruple Multiplying) reels were a big deal when introduced back in the day. I think the increase in speed was accompanied by better machinery and precision. It took decades more to make reels faster than 4:1.
-s
It's like with every iteration and success you're working your way through history and reel evolution. Very fascinating and must be humbling too when you open up a more modern reel and know first hand everything they had to solve to come to that point in reel development.
Quote from: Mandelstam on August 12, 2020, 12:00:04 PM
It's like with every iteration and success you're working your way through history and reel evoluti
I love reel evolution Karl. Trouble is, you can't really understand the evolution without understanding the nitty gritty of the manufacturing process. I don't understand it at all and, other than a couple of old photos, there is not much information about how it's actually done. Maybe there are trade secret issues or maybe nobody likes to admit how sausage is made.
-s
Cooooooolllll stuff!
My guess about thread-lock products, is in the presence of air(oxygen?) it stays at real low viscostiy, once you push alla air away, the viscosity goes way up. I've had some parts I've bought come to with the thread-lock compound already painted on.