okuma andros 5 II rebuild - 5/7/2011
small okuma two speeds! take two! quick check, 4 seconds of freespool.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/3/1_03_03_11_5_10_42_0.jpeg)
i think this is the reel that john bretza's been dragging around for the last year.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/3/1_03_03_11_5_17_01_0.jpeg)
we will be using schematic #109OKM04701051, dated 10/04/2010 - http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=1802.0
(http://alantani.com/gallery/3/1_03_03_11_5_10_47_0.jpeg)
(http://alantani.com/gallery/3/1_03_03_11_5_10_51_0.jpeg)
no granny gear here. 3.8 to 1 on the low gear is still pretty high. this is more in line with an avet.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/3/1_03_03_11_5_10_54_0.jpeg)
a clicking preset knob. a very nice, perhaps even critical, feature.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/3/1_03_03_11_5_10_59_0.jpeg)
been very pleased with this shifter mechanism.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/3/1_03_03_11_5_11_03_0.jpeg)
let's crack this reel open. first, unscrew and remove the drag knob assembly (key #600).
(http://alantani.com/gallery/3/1_03_03_11_5_11_34_0.jpeg)
using a number 10 torx bit, remove the right side plate screw (key #930-1223).
(http://alantani.com/gallery/3/1_03_03_11_5_11_06_0.jpeg)
twist the right side plate assembly (key #200) counter-clockwise and the reel separates easily into three pieces.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/3/1_03_03_11_5_11_42_0.jpeg)
let's take a look at the frame assembly (key #100) first. nice coat of corrosion x hd.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/3/1_03_03_11_5_11_16_0.jpeg)
let's pull the body foot (key #102). four screws (key #930-1124 and 930-1218) come out using a number 10 torx bit.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/3/1_03_03_11_5_11_19_0.jpeg)
(http://alantani.com/gallery/3/1_03_03_11_5_11_22_0.jpeg)
add a light coat of grease
(http://alantani.com/gallery/3/1_03_03_11_5_11_27_0.jpeg)
re-install the body foot (key #102) and the four screws (key #930-1124 and 930-1218), wipe off the excess grease and set the frame assembly aside.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/3/1_03_03_11_5_11_30_0.jpeg)
now for the spool assembly (key #400).
(http://alantani.com/gallery/3/1_03_03_11_5_11_47_0.jpeg)
remove the spool gear (key #401) and screws (key #930-1222).
(http://alantani.com/gallery/3/1_03_03_11_5_11_51_0.jpeg)
let's take a look at all the parts of the spool assembly.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/3/1_03_03_11_5_11_55_0.jpeg)
here is a closer look at the main shaft assembly.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/3/1_03_03_11_5_11_58_0.jpeg)
the left spool bearing (key #910-447) is a high quality japanese ezo bearing and measures 6x15x5mm. the right spool bearing (key #910-475) is 6x13x3.5mm
(http://alantani.com/gallery/3/1_03_03_11_5_12_01_0.jpeg)
let's open them up, clean them out, and lube them with TSI 301.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/3/1_03_03_11_5_12_11_0.jpeg)
(http://alantani.com/gallery/3/1_03_03_11_5_12_23_0.jpeg)
the drag washer (key #610) is held in by a stainless steel retainer (key #608). it is already grease, so there is no need to service it, but we are going to take a look and regrease it anyway.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/3/1_03_03_11_5_12_26_0.jpeg)
rebuild the left side of the main shaft (key #718).
(http://alantani.com/gallery/3/1_03_03_11_5_12_29_0.jpeg)
slide the main shaft assembly into place and re-install the right spool bearing (key #910-475).
(http://alantani.com/gallery/3/1_03_03_11_5_12_33_0.jpeg)
25 seconds of freespool. not bad for a feather-light spool.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/3/1_03_03_11_5_12_36_0.jpeg)
the spool assembly (key #400) is done. set it aside and let's move on.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/3/1_03_03_11_5_12_43_0.jpeg)
now for the handle side plate assembly (key #200).
(http://alantani.com/gallery/3/1_03_03_11_5_12_50_0.jpeg)
WARNING!!! the anti-reverse pawls (key #201) are what i call "ambassaduer-style dogs." if you grab the pinion guard assembly (key #607) and just yank, you may bend the springs (tabs) on the pawls. with the blade of a tiny screwdrive or small knife, lift up the pawls and shimmy them up as you gently lift the pinion guard assembly. the thing you do not want to do is pull the pinion guard assembly forcefull, have the pawls stuck, and then bend the springs on the pawls. for the purposes of the photo, i placed the pawls back so you can see how they are oriented. this will give you an idea of where you have to lift.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/3/1_03_03_11_5_12_53_0.jpeg)
remove the cover (key #912) and single screw (key #930-1178).
(http://alantani.com/gallery/3/1_03_03_11_5_12_56_0.jpeg)
remove the high (key #702) and low (key #702-1) speed pinion gears as a unit.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/3/1_03_03_11_5_13_00_0.jpeg)
remove the two anti-reverse pawls (key #201). take a moment to make sure the "springs" of the pawl are not flared out and will still grab the anti-reverse ratchet (key #202) properly. bending the springs in a little will certainly not hurt.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/3/1_03_03_11_5_13_03_0.jpeg)
ADVISORY!!! like the makaira 8, 10 and 15 two speeds, we need to service (or at least check) the right main side plate bearing (key #910-472). unlike the makaira, there are also two drive gear shaft bearings (key #910-473) that must be serviced. for the purposes of demonstration only, i am going to remove the two speed shifter mechanism, first. you will likely never have to do this to your reel. ok, here goes.
WARNING!!! remove the c-retainer using a number 2 ringed owner flyliner hook. take caution not to let the retainer fly across the room.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/3/1_03_03_11_5_13_06_0.jpeg)
remove the handle nut retainer (key #516-1).
(http://alantani.com/gallery/3/1_03_03_11_5_13_09_0.jpeg)
remove the two screws (key #930-1107) for the clutch shift box (key #516).
(http://alantani.com/gallery/3/1_03_03_11_5_13_11_0.jpeg)
remove the clutch shift box (key #516), screws (key #930-1107), push button spring (key #508) and push button (key #507) as a unit. it will be set aside and then re-installed with this side up.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/3/1_03_03_11_5_13_14_0.jpeg)
remove the handle screw (key #515).
(http://alantani.com/gallery/3/1_03_03_11_5_13_18_0.jpeg)
remove the handle nut (key #501) and note that it has left-handed or reverse threads.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/3/1_03_03_11_5_13_21_0.jpeg)
WARNING!!! - remove the e-retainer (key #900-0006) and take care not to let it go flying.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/3/1_03_03_11_5_13_24_0.jpeg)
remove the drive gear washer (key #920-026).
(http://alantani.com/gallery/3/1_03_03_11_5_13_27_0.jpeg)
remove the low speed drive gear (key #700-1) and teflon washer (key #920-412) as a unit.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/3/1_03_03_11_5_13_31_0.jpeg)
remove the high speed drive gear (key #700) and note the orientation as counter-bored side up.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/3/1_03_03_11_5_13_34_0.jpeg)
remove the drive gear transmission pin (key #507-1).
(http://alantani.com/gallery/3/1_03_03_11_5_13_37_0.jpeg)
remove the stainless steel washer (key #920-026) followed by the white teflon bushing (key #726-1).
(http://alantani.com/gallery/3/1_03_03_11_5_13_40_0.jpeg)
WARNING!!! remove the c-retainer (key #901-0006) with caution. this is a no fly zone.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/3/1_03_03_11_5_13_43_0.jpeg)
remove the handle (key #500) and drive gear shaft (key#701) as a unit. you now have easy access to the right main side plate bearing (key #910-472) and the two drive shaft bearings (key #910-473).
(http://alantani.com/gallery/3/1_03_03_11_5_13_46_0.jpeg)
take a moment to survey the parts.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/3/1_03_03_11_5_13_49_0.jpeg)
the right main side plate bearing (key #910-472) is a high quality japanese ezo bearing and measures 6x15x5mm. we'll pack it with grease using a bearing packer. http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=50.0 this allows us to pack the bearing without having to mangle the shields.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/3/1_03_03_11_5_13_52_0.jpeg)
the pair of drive gear shaft bearings (key #910-473) measure 12x18x4mm. the seals are easily remove. these bearings must be packed with grease as well. let's get this side plate back together!
(http://alantani.com/gallery/3/1_03_03_11_5_13_57_0.jpeg)
(http://alantani.com/gallery/3/1_03_03_11_5_14_00_0.jpeg)
re-install the right main side plate bearing (key #910-472).
(http://alantani.com/gallery/3/1_03_03_11_5_14_04_0.jpeg)
re-install the two drive gear shaft bearings (key #910-473) and bushing (key #726).
(http://alantani.com/gallery/3/1_03_03_11_5_14_07_0.jpeg)
(http://alantani.com/gallery/3/1_03_03_11_5_14_11_0.jpeg)
(http://alantani.com/gallery/3/1_03_03_11_5_14_15_0.jpeg)
re-install the handle (key #500) and drive gear shaft (key #701) assembly.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/3/1_03_03_11_5_14_18_0.jpeg)
WARNING!!! re-install the c-retainer (key #901-0006) with care. this is a no fly zone.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/3/1_03_03_11_5_14_25_0.jpeg)
re-install the white teflon bushing (key #726-1) and the stainless steel washer (key #920-026).
(http://alantani.com/gallery/3/1_03_03_11_5_14_29_0.jpeg)
re-install the clutch shaft pin assembly (key #517) and compression spring (key #204-1) as a unit.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/3/1_03_03_11_5_14_32_0.jpeg)
ADVISORY!!! re-install the drive gear transmission pin (key #507-1) through the drive gear shaft (key #701) AND the clutch shaft pin assembly (key #517).
(http://alantani.com/gallery/3/1_03_03_11_5_14_36_0.jpeg)
re-install the high speed drive gear (key #700) with the counterbored side facing towards you.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/3/1_03_03_11_5_14_39_0.jpeg)
re-install the low speed drive gear (key #700-1) and teflon washer (key #920-412) with the washer side away from you.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/3/1_03_03_11_5_14_43_0.jpeg)
re-install the low speed drive gear washer (key#920-026).
(http://alantani.com/gallery/3/1_03_03_11_5_14_46_0.jpeg)
WARNING!!! carefully re-install the e type retainer (key #900-006). this is a no fly zone.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/3/1_03_03_11_5_14_49_0.jpeg)
re-install the handle nut (key #501). remember that it has left hand threads and must be oriented as shown.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/3/1_03_03_11_5_14_53_0.jpeg)
re-install the handle screw (key #515).
(http://alantani.com/gallery/3/1_03_03_11_5_14_57_0.jpeg)
re-install the clutch shift box (key #516) assembly upside down to avoid having the push button (key #507) fall out.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/3/1_03_03_11_5_15_00_0.jpeg)
gently tighten the clutch shift box screws (key #930-1107).
(http://alantani.com/gallery/3/1_03_03_11_5_15_03_0.jpeg)
re-install the handle nut retainer (key #516-1). i believe this part should be called a clutch shift button.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/3/1_03_03_11_5_15_06_0.jpeg)
reinstall the c type retainer (key #901-0025). now would be a good time to verify that the side plate shifts gears properly.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/3/1_03_03_11_5_15_10_0.jpeg)
ok, this is the home stretch. there is a bearing (key #910-457) inside the pinion guard (key #607) that measures 6x13x5mm. this bearing is open when it needs to be shielded. any grease that flings out may land on the drag washer, so we will have to pack it with cal's grease.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/3/1_03_03_11_5_15_13_0.jpeg)
(http://alantani.com/gallery/3/1_03_03_11_5_15_23_0.jpeg)
the anti-reverse ratchet (key #202) is on the flip side of the pinion guard (key #607) and hold the anti-reverse pawls (key #201).
(http://alantani.com/gallery/3/1_03_03_11_5_15_26_0.jpeg)
lining up the pawls and dropping the entire assembly into the side plate can be tricky. that's what these markers are for.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/3/1_03_03_11_5_15_29_0.jpeg)
line up the holes in the pawls (key #201) with the machined marks on the pinion guard (key #607).
(http://alantani.com/gallery/3/1_03_03_11_5_15_34_0.jpeg)
(http://alantani.com/gallery/3/1_03_03_11_5_15_40_0.jpeg)
re-install the high speed (key #702) and low speed (key #702-1) pinion gears as a unit.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/3/1_03_03_11_5_15_44_0.jpeg)
it may take a couple of tries, but you should be able to shimmy it into place.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/3/1_03_03_11_5_15_47_0.jpeg)
re-install the gear box cover (key #912).
(http://alantani.com/gallery/3/1_03_03_11_5_15_50_0.jpeg)
re-install the cover screw (key #930-1178).
(http://alantani.com/gallery/3/1_03_03_11_5_15_53_0.jpeg)
re-install the spool assembly (key #400) into the frame assembly (key #100).
(http://alantani.com/gallery/3/1_03_03_11_5_15_56_0.jpeg)
re-install the handle side plate assembly (key #200).
(http://alantani.com/gallery/3/1_03_03_11_5_15_59_0.jpeg)
from this first position, twist the handle side plate assembly (key #200) clockwise until it seats.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/3/1_03_03_11_5_16_05_0.jpeg)
(http://alantani.com/gallery/3/1_03_03_11_5_16_09_0.jpeg)
re-install the screw (key #930-1223) for the right handle plate assembly (key #200).
ADVISORY!!! re-install the drag knob assembly (key #600) with the lever drag assembly (key #605) in the "free" position. the drag knob must nest into the the lever.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/3/1_03_03_11_5_16_51_0.jpeg)
and done!
(http://alantani.com/gallery/3/1_03_03_11_5_16_57_0.jpeg)
well, almost done. we still need to run the reel through its paces. meet evan at the fisherman's warehouse. he's going to load this reel with 50 pound stren spectra.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/3/1_04_03_11_3_45_14_0.jpeg)
(http://alantani.com/gallery/3/1_04_03_11_3_45_17_0.jpeg)
gotta wind these tight!
(http://alantani.com/gallery/3/1_04_03_11_3_45_19_0.jpeg)
much more than i would have expected. 400 yards of 50 pound solid spectra.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/3/1_04_03_11_3_45_22_0.jpeg)
hmmmm.... i love the smell of fresh spectra in the morning....
(http://alantani.com/gallery/3/1_04_03_11_3_45_27_0.jpeg)
ok, now for a little commentary. i'm betting this reel has been dragged around for a year, so maybe that's why the freespool was so poor. i should have changed out the bearings but they were perfectly smooth. when aaron did his review, he got 60 seconds of freespool. all i got was 25 seconds. not great, but perfectly adequate and definitely not a deal killer. like aaron, i got 12 pounds of drag at strike with absolutely no side load. that means you can fish a short 40 pound fluorocarbon topshot with no problem. the side load did not become noticeable until you hit 15 pounds of drag at strike. the double dogs give the anti-reverse system a huge boost in reliability, and they are not something you would normally see until you reached a reel twice it's size. basically, it's a nice little reel. it will deliver perhaps half the level of performance that the makaira 8 delivers, but will easily go toe to toe against any other reel in it's size class, and many that are larger. i'd say okuma has another winner on their hands. gentlement, well done!
alan
written 3/7/2011
i think i goofed. i never use cast control and i never even thought about it!
Quote
Alan,
At the start of your post you said the Andros only had 4-sconds of freespool. I saw that you had no mention about the dial on the left sideplate. This is a cast control feature that draws pressure from the drag system to slow the spool. It also works for guys fishing heavy weights if they want to drop down deep, so anglers can tighten this control to almost lock down. My guess is that when you took this reel out of the box, this cast control feature was turned fairly tight to only get 4-seconds of freespool. When you first received the reel, did you completely back off this cast control dial?
Great tutorial, Alan! This seems like a really good reel that would be ideal for halibut jigging here in Norway. Based on your tutorial, I'm feeling confident enough on this one to push the 'buy' button on it when it becomes available.
But there's one thing I'm curious about, and that is the water proofing of the drag system. Seems there is a rubber gasket mounted on the drag plate plate assembly that will seal off the drag system when it is pressed against the spool.. Can you confirm this? Is it a full time seal, or just when the drag is 'engaged'?
Thanks and regards from Norway!
Great post as always. Thanks so much for all the work you do in these posts.
If anyone has ever tried taking a reel apart, getting your hands greasy and then trying to hold a camera still and get good lighting, well, it's not that easy.
I went to a sportsman show in RI today.
The Okuma rep's Andros reel was reel number -004
I thought that was pretty cool.
Not so cool, the rep claimed the Makaira 8 II wouldn't be out until next spring :o
i sure hope not. i need this reel in july.
There is one potential problem with this reel that i hate to mention here:
(http://alantani.com/gallery/3/1_03_03_11_5_11_51_0.jpeg)
The spool gear also known as the clicker gear (key #401) it's made from hard plastic - a big run when the clicker is engaged will start shredding the teeth on this clicker gear (key #401). On my Okuma Cavalla 50w i had this already replaced after one month of usage and right now i'm in the middle of replacing again similar clicker gear but custom made from Stainless Steel. By having shredded teeth on this clicker gear the sound of the clicker will fade to the point where with the background noise will be hard to hear when a fish will do a run.
Also, because the gear is made from hard plastic the clicker doesn't sound as loud as would be made from metal. In other words plastic to metal doesn't sound as loud as metal to metal.
Personally i believe that Okuma missed this part to have it properly designed. Overall Andros looks an excellent reel to fish with but again the clicker gear (key #401) is made from hard plastic that shouldn't be there at all.
In few weeks i'll prove my point through a video when my customized clicker gear arrives from Hungary for my Okuma Cavalla 50w.
Wow, sounds like you ran into some serious fish! My Andros's clicker is pretty loud IMO (and I have two small kids, so it's not like I'm not used to loud noise ;-) Maybe the Andros side plate does a better job as a loudspeaker?
I have serious plans on hooking up with some large halibuts this summer, so I'll be testing the clicker properly then :)
I fish for sharks with my Okuma Cavalla 50w. It has smooth drag and everything, but my only problem is the clicker.
hey boghy,dont you turn it off once you hook up,or do you like the noise or music whatever the case maybe?
Quote from: wallacewt on April 05, 2011, 03:08:43 AM
hey boghy,dont you turn it off once you hook up,or do you like the noise or music whatever the case maybe?
I do apply the rule of thumb to turn off the clicker when i have the rod in my hand to do a hook up. I understand what you try to say with this but sooner or later i'm sure i won't gonna be the only one complaining of something that shouldn't be made out of plastic.
When you are on the boat, quietly drifting you can hear anything, but when you fish from the sand in crushing waves it's a hole new story. To give you an example, my Okuma Solterra 15CS has a much louder clicker then the 50w Okuma Cavalla - why? Simply because they design the clicker gear from metal and not plastic which sounds ironic since its a lower end reel then Andros and Cavalla.
People who don't have both reels side by side can't really tell the difference until they actually compare them. I just did that, and solterra 15cs came easily as a winner when compared to my cavalla 50w clicker wise.
Also, people fishing for fish that don't make a big run can't really complain about this clicker thing, but for thous trying to catch a "smoker" - "king fish", sharks, bonito, tuna etc on a plastic design clicker gear will run into same trouble like myself. It's just a matter of time.
horses for courses i suppose,would you believe im deaf,i kid you not haha
dear Alan,
so no infinite anti reverse bearing are in this reel?
little bit confused with specification from this site, saying that 6BB+1RB ???
http://www.okumafishingteam.com/family/395262
thank you :)
A piece of advice: always trust the engineers over the sales guys ;D
yup, no anti-reverse roller bearing. the failure rate for AR bearings is so high that it surprises me that anyone uses them anymore. :-\
Quote from: alantani on June 23, 2011, 04:02:35 PM
yup, no anti-reverse roller bearing. the failure rate for AR bearings is so high that it surprises me that anyone uses them anymore. :-\
in my ocea jigger reels,
the AR bearing is
just needed for the feeling of instant stopping when jerking and cranking the heavy jig (over 500 grams) jigging in over 600 ft depth,
slight backplay will give inconvenient feeling for the cranking palm.....
even though, if big fish is hooked up, the AR bearing will actually failed, and AR dog will work.....
(i feel.... ;D)
thanks for the review.... ;)
dear alan,
i've finally bought one..... ;D
nice little reel and should be able to tame large fish..... (i hope ;D)
but i notice that the gear sound is little bit "noisy", in comparison with shimano or daiwa.
rebuilt it accordingly to your tutorial, add a tournament drag lube for teh drag, and molybdenum lube for the gears was able made the noisy sound became less....
but it still there....
is this noisy sound is normal?
thxuvm alan..... ;)
hadn't really noticed. one thing. quieter gears are usually made of softer metals.
Yes you can hear the gears on the Andros. It is louder than the Makiara's by a factor of 2X (by my ear) as the Makiara has thicker gears and much heavier side plates and frame. The sound should be even and smooth with no hitches. The sound will be different between low and high. This is mostly due to light weight (thin) sides that amplify the higher frequency sounds.
As long as the reel is smooth it should be good to go. You will also find that after a half dozen or so 60#+ YFT that the sound will change to a slightly lower pitch as the gears surfaces lap together and smooth out the contact surfaces.
Once you start fishing the Andros you will not even notice any noise as the lightness and cast ability are top notch.
Enjoy,
Jim N.
Quote from: alantani on September 25, 2011, 03:38:14 AM
hadn't really noticed. one thing. quieter gears are usually made of softer metals.
i surely hope so..... ;D
any idea how to increase the drag without increasing the binding?
thx alan.... ;)
Quote from: JGB on September 25, 2011, 06:58:04 AM
Yes you can hear the gears on the Andros. It is louder than the Makiara's by a factor of 2X (by my ear) as the Makiara has thicker gears and much heavier side plates and frame. The sound should be even and smooth with no hitches. The sound will be different between low and high. This is mostly due to light weight (thin) sides that amplify the higher frequency sounds.
As long as the reel is smooth it should be good to go. You will also find that after a half dozen or so 60#+ YFT that the sound will change to a slightly lower pitch as the gears surfaces lap together and smooth out the contact surfaces.
Once you start fishing the Andros you will not even notice any noise as the lightness and cast ability are top notch.
Enjoy,
Jim N.
thx jim....
cast control will be not useful for me, since i will use it for deep jigging over 300 ft water.....
never for casting.....
i really hope the gear will stand the abuse of high pressure during ripping an over 500 gram jig..... ;D
thats very serious jigging.could you post photos and a full report on your return.if the andros stands up to that it will stand up to anything.wonder what okuma thinks?good luck ps,what gear will you use?
Increasing drag performance on the Andros beyond the specified design limit of 24# can and will cause premature wear and/or permanent damage to either the right side plate bearing or the left spool bearing. The bearing drag you feel in high gear is a indicator that you are beginning to stress the ratings of the bearings. The bearings in the Andros are More expensive than those used on other reels ($12 to $22 per bearing) so you do not want to be replacing them. There is some work and investigations on different drag geometries that may be able to get 10-15% more drag but it is all in the investigative stages. Wouldn't it be a kick to get 17# at strike and 29# at full on an Andros. Reality is that we very seldom use these kinds of drag settings and it is easy to get wrapped up in the numbers game. Heck when I fish a 40# outfit the drag rarely goes above 10 or 12# and I use the rod and my thumb to get any more that I might need. The thinking is if you use the drag there is no way you can lower the drag in an emergency but you can easily drop the rod tip or release you thumb a bit as the demands of the fish changes during the fight.
Have fun,
Jim N.
Quote from: wallacewt on September 25, 2011, 11:09:53 PM
thats very serious jigging.could you post photos and a full report on your return.if the andros stands up to that it will stand up to anything.wonder what okuma thinks?good luck ps,what gear will you use?
i am from bali island, indonesia....
even tough i am now live in japan, but sometimes i came back to bali and did a deep jigging....
i'll go to bali next month, post some picture if catch something big using andros.... ;D
ps: my gear is 4'4 smith mariana, 4'4 shimano blue rose custom, and 4'8 riffle fisher custom with ocea jigger 4000P, 3000P, and saltiga 6000Z
Quote from: JGB on September 26, 2011, 06:36:20 AM
Increasing drag performance on the Andros beyond the specified design limit of 24# can and will cause premature wear and/or permanent damage to either the right side plate bearing or the left spool bearing. The bearing drag you feel in high gear is a indicator that you are beginning to stress the ratings of the bearings. The bearings in the Andros are More expensive than those used on other reels ($12 to $22 per bearing) so you do not want to be replacing them. There is some work and investigations on different drag geometries that may be able to get 10-15% more drag but it is all in the investigative stages. Wouldn't it be a kick to get 17# at strike and 29# at full on an Andros. Reality is that we very seldom use these kinds of drag settings and it is easy to get wrapped up in the numbers game. Heck when I fish a 40# outfit the drag rarely goes above 10 or 12# and I use the rod and my thumb to get any more that I might need. The thinking is if you use the drag there is no way you can lower the drag in an emergency but you can easily drop the rod tip or release you thumb a bit as the demands of the fish changes during the fight.
Have fun,
Jim N.
i am just curious ;D
i am jigging for amberjack or dogtooth tuna, not so big.... just 20-60 lbs class....
the problem is they live in badung strait, bali island, indonesia..... very strong current there....
just imagine,
they live in the water that the current is so strong, even sometimes 500 gram jig couldn't touch 100 meter bottom of the sea.... so sometime 700-800 gram jig is usual.....
once they hit the jig, and run.... 20 lbs drag is actually nothing..... they will follow the current to reefed us...
they will run to the bottom, and scratch the leader into the reef....
so its very important to stop them as soon as possible before they reefed you....
thumbing the spool is nice, but not always a good idea.....
i bought this reel, because its 30% off here in japan, i think its the best lightweight small lever drag reel with high capacity....
i think i can load 350 meter of PE 5 here for extra initial drag.... ;D
It is nice to have problems like the fish are so big I need over 25# just to think of slowing them down. The last person I talked to about similar situation (Goliath grouper in wrecks or rocks) I recommended a much larger reel (Makiara 15 or 20) that have 34# and 55# of drag capacity and the frame to support it. Here are some thoughts on how the Andros might be made to work. Spool 50 or 60# spectra (actual breaking around 80#) to about half full on the spool. Top shot it with a good abrasion resistant mono of 60-80# (actual breaking strain). the idea here is to have the spool around 1/2 full during jigging so you can get about 30% more drag when the fish hits. When the fish empties the spool to 1/3 or less you have near 2X the drag capability in the drag system. This translates to 32.5# while jigging and almost 48# when you have 1/3 the spool left. These numbers are based on the reel being set up with 24# with a full spool and the drag set at max. Now keep in mind that you will need to use crimps to keep your terminal connections strong enough to handle the load with such light line.
If Amber jack are like Yellow tail they can pull extremely hard at initial hook up but will tire fairly quickly. so you you might have a shot with the Andros on a big Jack and some luck.
Disclaimer:The Andros frame is made to be very light and 50# of drag pressure will definitely stress the frame. If the fish is too big it might be better to cut it free before the frame or shaft is permanently bent.
Enjoy,
Jim N.
what gear will you use with the andros.photo?
Quote from: wallacewt on September 27, 2011, 03:22:07 AM
what gear will you use with the andros.photo?
smith mariana 4'4 and okuma andros....
very light set-up (approx. 700 gram) for big fish...... ;D
The Andros has been tested quite hard here in Norway this summer. Seemingly with mixed luck. I've heard more than one report about jerky drag after some heavy halibut fishing. There's also been issues with the drive train. Unfortunately, I don't have any details about these reels. But I do have some data on my own Andros by now. I did a complete rebuild of it before use, and two things stood out: a metal piece sticking to the gears (an aluminum spiral, the kind you get from CNC machining), plus a poorly greased drag washer. I hope this is not symptomatic for how Okuma assembles the Andros, but the reports I've been hearing this summer could possibly be due to the poor quality on the assembly line.
The shrapnel was removed, bearings packed with marine grease (using Alan's bearing packer for the sealed bearings), and the drag washer greased with Cal's.
My Andros has performed flawlessly, which I hoped and almost expected. I did not encounter any monsters, but halibuts up to around 100lbs was able to put the drag and drive train to a decent test. I would like to put the reel to some more long term testing, but so far so good. Alan's rebuild seems to be essential, though....
Quote from: paal on October 01, 2011, 04:57:18 PM
I did a complete rebuild of it before use, and two things stood out: a metal piece sticking to the gears (an aluminum spiral, the kind you get from CNC machining), plus a poorly greased drag washer.
i did not found any shrapnel though, but the drag was poorly grease....
rebuilt my cavalla 20ii last night, found the same case with the poorly greased drag washer.... >:(
okuma definitely should have done better.... ??? ??? ???
thanks for this nice site alan..... ;)
I have had my andros since april and only found 1 problem with mine, the clicker was too strong. Even with the reel in total free spool and the clicker on, the clicker tension was so strong that a fish could have pulled the reel and rod overboard. I took my reel apart and switched the clicker around and now it is just right. I only get the real strong clicker when I reel in, which doesn't matter since I take the clicker off when I reel in anyway.
I am curious though about the line capacity. When I bought mine it came with 300 yards of 50 jb spectra topped off with 100yds of 25 p-line mono. How did you only get 400 yards of stren 50 on the reel? Are the line diameters so much different? Just looking at the spool and the amount of spectra on it once I took the mono off it looks like I could put at least another 200 yards of jb 50 on it if I wanted to.
i just spooled up an andros with 470 yards of 50# spiderwire, but it was wound on pretty tight.
new andros narrow is out already?
somebody have clue on it and about what will be the difference with the wide one?
How is the side load once you tighten it? I'm gonna use it for local yellowtain/whitesea bass/tuna. I'm torn between the makaira 8ii and this.
Not sure where your fishing but it sounds like my neck of the woods with the fish mentioned. When you say "local" in my mind those are trips from 1 to 3 days in length when fishing out of San Diego or to the local islands in So Cal.
Let me say I have not fished a Andros yet but have talked to several who have. They mostly use them for 30lb test line and you could bump it up to 40lb topshots but not much need for that for the "local" fish. They tell me 15lbs at strike with freespool is right so side load would not be a problem for our local stuff, I mainly use 25lb sometimes 30 for the fish mentioned in that range. On my lever drag reels that I fish 40lb test on, mostly further down Baja and in the Sea of Cortez I set my drags at 10lbs at strike which allows me more drag pressure by moving the lever past strike if needed. So I don't see you having side load issues for the "local" stuff.
on my last trip, the fish were pretty small. the andros got the most work. it was strung with 50# spectra and a 40# topshot with 12 #'s of drag. it's a much lighter reel than the makaira 8 or 10 and casts beautifully!
I fish off La Jolla and we are blessed to have yellowtail fishing year round and occasional whitesea bass fishing. But tuna we have to go 60 miles out, I should have been more specific. But its gonna used for flyline/yoyo. I can get an andros for a really good price, but I want a reel with no side load. I have JX, LD 20 and just want to try something different. I know I dont need all that drag for local fishing but I'm also gonna be using it this summer to get bigger tunas. No one seems to have the makaira's 8 or 10 in stock in my area, so can't actually compare them in person.
get the andros, string it with straight 60# spectra, tie on a short topshot of 30, 40, or 50# fluoro and set the drags to 30%. i'm guessing it will soon become your favorite reel.
Reelz,
Know the area well, the kelp off La Jolla can hold some nice biscuits (white saebass) and mossbacks (yellowtail). 60 miles out you must be fishing around the Dumper, 60 mile and Butterfly banks which can hold some nice tuna but not so much as of the last few years. Check Charkbait in San Diego they should have both reels if you want to do a side by side match up.
Thanks for the suggestion guys. Funny you mentioned charkbait, I called them this afternoon and they have makaira 8 and 10 SE availbable. I'm gonna check them out tomorrow so I can compare them.
dear alan,
found this angular bearing today....
http://www.origin.co.jp/product/up_file/ja/200704091.pdf
it seems the AC6-16 could replace the left side spool bearing, so it would reducing the binding right?
probably have to enlarge the diameter by 0.5 mm, should be no prob.... ;D
what about changing the right main side frame bearing too....?
this can be a good project..... ;D
just did a quick check of the shimano tld's and the sizes did not match. interesting. they are very close to the proper size, so the technology is there. :-\
yes, i always wonder the same too..... ???
andros with 2 angular bearing is a killer reel...... dear okuma, why....?? why.....??
its cheap... and easy..... ???
Quote from: madday on February 11, 2013, 06:42:19 AM
yes, i always wonder the same too..... ???
andros with 2 angular bearing is a killer reel...... dear okuma, why....?? why.....??
its cheap... and easy..... ???
I agree, for trolling or jigging! I just replaced two expensive Ezo bearings on my Andros today, they were getting a bit rough. Pulled the shields off, no corrosion. So it was just reeling at 10lbs of drag that produced this roughness over time. It might not been strictly necessary to replace them yet, but didn't want to risk bearing failure at the worst possible moment.
I am looking for angular contact bearings that have the correct dimension for the Andros. The only ones I've found so far are 0.5mm too wide (ID/OD is right). It might be possible to shave off 0.5mm of the right side plate, and prime with aluminum primer. For the left spool bearing it might be possible to shave a bit off the plastic ratchet. But there's a possibility for failure here, so I'd rather get bearings with correct dimensions :)
Tight lines!
Paal
Quote from: paal on February 23, 2013, 08:31:48 AM
I am looking for angular contact bearings that have the correct dimension for the Andros. The only ones I've found so far are 0.5mm too wide (ID/OD is right). It might be possible to shave off 0.5mm of the right side plate, and prime with aluminum primer. For the left spool bearing it might be possible to shave a bit off the plastic ratchet. But there's a possibility for failure here, so I'd rather get bearings with correct dimensions :)
Tight lines!
Paal
yep... i've found only that size too.... probably insert-able in left side spool bearing, meanwhile i don't now to right side plate.
I wan't to try but seems nobody selling it in japan..... ???
I asked around locally, but no one seems to stock them here in Norway either. I think ebay will be my best option....
Tight lines,
Paal
Hi
quick question (i hope lol)
I took my Andros out for work on the freespool. I cant seem to line up the anti reverse dogs and the plate as a unit and get them back on. Am I doing something wrong. The dogs keep falling off when I try to slide them back on with the plate. It seems hard to line up everything. Any advice on how to get this done. I believe it is the step in photo #63??
Thanks
these are a real pain.
they have the markings where the dogs should go
but i dont use them.
only for 1st dog.
you might like to try this.
put 1 dog on in the correct position
so its in working order.
now slightly lift the plate and slide the 2nd dog
onto the stud(hole end 1st.)
turn the dog and it lines up with the cogs
as you lower the plate.thin wire helps
there is a large opening and a small opening
between the plate and the frame.
1st dog goes where the smaller opening is.
dogs must be 1st class condition or they will droop
sry i cant post pics
It's a balancing act, you need time and patience. It's easy to damage these dogs, and you might not even notice it when it happens, so take your time to get everything aligned. My pulse always goes up when I get to this part of the rebuild :D
But when you succeed on this part, you need not fear any reel made by men ;)
serviced a new andros today and pleased to say it only took 2 min; for the dogs.
grease was missing in a lot of places
the last 3 numbers on the reel foot were 223.
is that the # off the assembly line.
seems a bit weird if thats the case.
reel arrived from usa on monday 25/3/2013
Quote from: wallacewt on March 26, 2013, 07:30:34 AM
serviced a new andros today and pleased to say it only took 2 min; for the dogs.
grease was missing in a lot of places
the last 3 numbers on the reel foot were 223.
is that the # off the assembly line.
seems a bit weird if thats the case.
reel arrived from usa on monday 25/3/2013
Yes, It only took me 6 weeks and waiting for Okuma to send me new dogs that I ruined on the first time ;D Honestly, I love working on my reels. I think that is one of the reasons I like Avets, stupid simple to work and star drags. I really like my ANdros, but this dog system, makes me think about selling all 3 of mine. ugh, took me 20 minutes today to get the dogs in place. Insane. ;D
I have been eye balling this combo at the tackle shop. For about $350 it's hard to resist. ;)
Hey everyone! New to posting here, but not new to reading these informative posts which are in my opinion, invaluable. I bought one of these reels earlier this year and love it. I actually took it deep sea fishing off of the New Hampshire coast a few months ago and it performed well considering that we were using 20 ounces of lead. I love this little reel and after fearing the binding issue, I have looked and looked for angular contact bearings. I have been able to find angular contact bearings in the 6x15x5mm size but they are made of chrome steel. Apparently they want a larger order if they are to be made from stainless steel. One of my questions is, is this material suitable for saltwater use as long as it is well taken care of? And if I can only get this size bearing and not an angular contact bearing for the other side of the reel, is it even worth putting into the reel? Thank you in advance!
if the reel is working well enough, i would pass on the plain steel bearing. salt water is hard enough on stainless steel. :-\
G'day all,
Did a service today on one of these buggers and have gotten something wrong. When i push the lever up to strike there is minimal drag on the spool. I tried changing the cam around and pulling the reel down and putting back together with Alan's tutorial. I even rang Okuma and talked to the Andros specialist but still no luck. If i dial the drag drag knob up the lever becomes tighter through the quadrant but still no drag on the spool. It's got me very frustrated as i have had to line those 2 dogs up about 15 times and it's doing my head in. Any advice or suggestions on what to look at would be most appreciated.
Thanks, Dirk
any chance you have spectra that is slipping on the spool?
Alan,
I was hoping it was something as simple as that but no luck. Looks like i will have to send this one back to Okuma. I dont like to admit defeat but this one has got me.
Ended up being the belleville washers not seating properly and the c clip not in the groove on the shaft. Had to put the bellevilles in ((() to get the c clip in. This has solved the problem but i dont understand why i had to do this to get the c clip in the groove. Anybody got any ideas?
This was the same problem I had with the metaloid bellevile washers. I think you need some kinda tool to compress the belleviles along with the left side bearing so that you have enough room to slide the E clip on.
Got my Andros 5IIA and opened her up, noticed a few small differences between the one you posted and mines. Most notably were the anti reverse pawls, they are bolted in. Handle has some slight tapering right where it mounts- for clearance?
Getting it spooled up with 50 or 65# maxcuatro this weekend, picking up a new rod as well for a 40# rig. Can't wait to fish the new setup!
if 60# hollow is an option for you, go with that. it's much better to be able to cut and splice that to have to tie double uni's or double bimini's.
A splice everytime over knots - yeh I know your knots are near 100% - no chance bro but believe what you will :D
Quote from: alantani on November 20, 2015, 04:52:33 PM
if 60# hollow is an option for you, go with that. it's much better to be able to cut and splice that to have to tie double uni's or double bimini's.
I'll see if it's in my budget. Looking to get my reel spooled and pick up a 40# Calstar WC rod for $320
Here's what I was talking about.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v320/murda_fiziks/Fishing/Andros%205IIa.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/murda_fiziks/media/Fishing/Andros%205IIa.jpg.html)
I like the new dogs - much better idea - maybe they could be retrofitted :)
I f you fit a spool sleeve - doing away with the clips on the shaft - it makes it simple to install the bellevilles ()() and clip :)
may be able to swap new ratchet for the old.
they should be the same size
wonder what other parts are different
Quote from: Tiddlerbasher on November 21, 2015, 10:46:49 AM
I like the new dogs - much better idea - maybe they could be retrofitted :)
I f you fit a spool sleeve - doing away with the clips on the shaft - it makes it simple to install the bellevilles ()() and clip :)
Is this a common mod? I wouldn't mind doing it- after tearing mines down following this great tutorial, I had a heck of a time putting that clip back on.
just thinking out loud here
on the older andros if you undid the 2 screws that hold
the ratchet and drag plate together and had the 2 screws come in from the drag plate side
instead of the ratchet side
it would be very simple to service the dogs. any thoughts?
Mudman
All of my lever drag reels have spool sleeves. 2 reasons 1-Easier to re-assemble 2-usually better free spool (you must get the length spot on)
Access to a small lathe helps but its not essential.
With a correct length sleeve there should be no play between sleeve and spool bearings. Also not so long that the bearings 'float' back and forth. A couple of thou too long is ok but nothing too short (cos it won't work)
Quote from: Tiddlerbasher on November 21, 2015, 01:02:03 PM
Mudman
All of my lever drag reels have spool sleeves. 2 reasons 1-Easier to re-assemble 2-usually better free spool (you must get the length spot on)
Access to a small lathe helps but its not essential.
With a correct length sleeve there should be no play between sleeve and spool bearings. Also not so long that the bearings 'float' back and forth. A couple of thou too long is ok but nothing too short (cos it won't work)
Can you post a photo? I'm a little confused what your talking about. Sorry I'm still new to all of this.
This photo from maxpowers should give you an idea - The brass tube (on the shaft) between the 2 spool bearings is the sleeve:
http://alantani.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=12466.0;attach=9489;image
Ended up spooling with 50# izor, Charkbait manage to jam 500 yards on the reel. While I was only expecting maybe 400 max. Impressive to say the least.
Quote from: Tiddlerbasher on November 22, 2015, 10:39:24 AM
This photo from maxpowers should give you an idea - The brass tube (on the shaft) between the 2 spool bearings is the sleeve:
http://alantani.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=12466.0;attach=9489;image
Awesome thank you!
Im in the market for a reel to retire my trini 16 gold, just because I want to try something new
since I already have a fathom 40ld2 I know what those Penn reel can do and the 25nld2 size looks really appealing to take the place of the trini 16, but the andros 5-II have always have something that attracts me (yep Im a tackleho, cant help it) the lack of thrust bearing stop me a little.
so, for 20# YT, 25# cabrillas, spanish macks, WSB and many other inshore fish other than the thrust bearing anything I need to check on both reels to decide ? (normally fish 65# braid and 50# mono leader, mostly for abrasion purposes than strenght)
I'm thinking of using this reel for slow pitch jigging.
Has anyone tried replacing the bushing in the handle, part 726 (https://alantani.com/index.php?topic=1802.0), with an ARB?
Is that where an ARB would go?
Edited part number.
Where did you find a 761 on that diagram? Part 726 could, in theory, maybe be replaced with an ARB if you could find one of matching dimensions. The bushing may be too thin to allow it, though.
Typo on that part number fixed.
I'll disassemble the reel and measure the bushing. It's a good point that it might be too thin...
Edited to add:
The bushing is 12.75mm wide (or tall) with an inner diameter of 12mm and outer diameter of 14mm. There is space in the handle around the bushing - so an ARB would have to have an OD of 16.75mm.
Unfortunately, it looks like ARB's take up a minimum of 6MM from the ID to the OD. So I saw lots that were ID = 12MM, OD = 18MM and none that were narrower. I'll search a little more, but I suspect there is not an ARB with an ID of 12 and OD of 16.