ok so I'm finally getting around to taking apart, cleaning up, and upgrading the drag in my quick super 2 speed I acquired a little while back. I'm hoping fred will chime in on this as I usually don't have any issues getting these old reels apart. But this two speed the red knob that you pull in and out to engage the low or high speed is being quite the pain to get off so I can the whole two speed gear assembly apart and thoroughly cleaned. There is a little pin that I'm guessing is what holds the knob on which keeps me from removing the shaft it's attached to. I've been trying to carefully with little gunsmith punches knock the pin to no avail. It's hard to really get a good hit on it since it a rather small diameter and the little punches appropriate for it can't take to hard a hit. That and it's easy to hit too hard the punch bounces then striking the plastic knob I'd rather keep in tact. Or maybe the pin doesn't need to come out and I'm just missing something else that should come out so I can get this gear mechanism taken apart cleaned and relubed properly. I haven't gotten around to redoing the drag stack with CF drags when I do I will post up pics and descriptions on here. Anything I do to the drag stack could be applied to any super as the spools are the same between the two speed and regular supers.
more pics of it apart
Don't know if this will help but most of the Dam pins I've punched will only drive out in one direction. They're mushroomed just a little on one end so the won't slide in too far.
I've tried on both sides if you look at the one pic the little hole in the knob is from me accidentally slipping with the little punch and put it through the red knob. I'll have to give it another try when I have time haven't messed with it the past few days have had more pressing things to work on.
Tommy is right about most of the DQ pins -- with the exception of the roll pins, one end is usually slightly mushroomed, tapered, or fluted -- so it is a one-way deal in or out.
However, it has been a few years since I had a 2-speed apart for a service on the bench -- but I seem to recall that the keeper pin was the same on both ends. The plastic knob is tolerance-tight enough to hold the pin in place.
Problem arises when removing these pins from the shaft that may be salt encrusted, rusted, or just 60 years of being fused together.
Anything can be used for a pin if you screw one up -- brass or SS stock from a hobby store, etc..
But if you tweak the double side housing, sleeve, or bend something else -- it will spoil your day.
My solution would be to be careful -- cut off the red knob with a Dremel -- exposing the bare pin shaft -- then ease the pin out with a pair of vice-grips, or similar.
If this is the route you decide -- I will send you a NOS red shift knob.
This way, the hammer can be eliminated on a delicate and non-existant sideplate assemby -- and the new knob looks good too.
Clean the pin hole -- and grease the pin when reinserting -- your next service will be a breeze.
The pics show you what you are working with inside.
Best,
Fred
fred thank you, I was hoping you might have a knob lying around so I could do as your describing that was my next idea. But I didn't want to act on it till I knew if I could get another knob or not. Your the man and I'm for ever great full for your stock pile of DAM Quick NOS parts. I will take you up on the knob I think and just cut mine off.
Will do, Andy --
Might be a couple of days -- just took a break from burning slash piles and cutting timber.
Was up every hour last night monitoring the burn piles for progress, wind, wetting the perimeters, etc.
After tonight, we will tractor the piles apart, soak everything good, then spread and work it into the meadow floor.
Few more days -- then schedules will be hopefully a little more balanced.
On another note --
Like many of you, I have had many reels apart over the years -- and yet am always astounded at the over-engineering and tough qualities built into these DAM's -- from the smallest to largest.
Just take a look at those gears, steel shafts, machined steel wormdrives, etc..
Few reels today, can boast features anywhere close to these.
Best,
Fred
Fred the quality of these reels is impeccable I agree one would have to speed a few hundred dollars to get anything close. Sounds like your really busy Fred as am I haven't messed with the reel since last weekend, so a few days waiting on the knob is ok. I'm going to try and lap down the metal drag washers and see how many CF washers I can squeeze into the spool.
Well finally got around to disassembling this thing the rest of the way yesterday night after working in the garage on a tractor for a while. I ended up cutting the red knob off and using vise grips to push the retaining pin out. Unfortunately the pin was stuck in pretty good and bent slightly while removing it. And ended up breaking while trying to pull it out completely. Hoping fred might have another if not I will have to figure out something else to replace it with. Any ways tried to take a bunch of pictures and illustrate the tear down as best I could. Now I just need to let all the parts soak in some mineral spirits or lacquer to get all the old grease gum and varnish off. The two speed gear system is very well made, and a very clever design. Every part of this reel is very well made and very beefy compared to anything today.
more disassembly pics even the the gear/shaft that the handle turns on top of the handle having a tight fitting retaining pin and threaded thumb nut to keep the shaft in the housing it also had a c clip retaining it too. All the gears are precisely machined very impressive components in this reel.
more pics started disassembling the gear system that allows it to have two speeds.
The larger gear even had a resistax type lining on the one side. More pics of it coming apart. unfortunately the very thin copper washer behind the first gear that comes off the shaft was broken hopefully fred might be able to help me out on that one.
Cool process, Andy. Keep them coming. If Fred doesn't have a replacement pin you can pick up an appropriate size stainless steel rod at many hardware or craft stores and easily cut one. I have numerous sizes of SS rods exactly for that or similar purposes. They come in very handy......no pun intended. ;D
more pics moved on to the rest of the reel since I had the gears all taken apart removed the spool shaft retaining screw and spool shaft then the rotor. I'm still impressed by how over built these reels are the spool shaft is quite thick tried to use my pinky finger as a comparison.
Wow, a 2 speed, I didn't even know they made that one! Your rebuild looks to be going well. 8)
more pics removed the bearing retainer plate and pinion shaft with bearing. I haven't removed the bearing yet if it's like other dam quicks it's a tight fit and will take a little persuasion to get off. None the less the pinion is very robust and well machined. The bearing is very large and over sized compared to most reels today.
Quote from: mo65 on June 30, 2017, 06:58:05 PM
Wow, a 2 speed, I didn't even know they made that one! Your rebuild looks to be going well. 8)
Yes they did they're kind of rare picked this one up on the auction site a little while back was little expensive, compared to what I've spent on most reels that needed rebuilt. But got a decent price compared to what any of the buy it now ones were. Hard to say what a good price for one of these are though considering they aren't common and I don't think there are any two speed spinners made today, even single speed spinners of comparable quality cost close 300 plus dollars. So in my eyes it's still a bargain for an amazing reel and very cool one too.
Anyways more pics
Well that's where I'm at now figured guys on here would appreciate all the pics so I took a bunch. Still minor pieces to take off, need to let all the parts soak and do good cleaning of them. Then get it back together, greased, and oiled properly. Then will work on making a CF drag stack for it. Will be a little while before I can taking off all of the July 4th week and going on vacation with the GF, mom, sister, and niece so won't be till the week after the fourth that I mess with it more. The overall pic also shows my mess of a work bench I try to be more organized like freds shop but I'm no where near close. But for now the reel will sit there on the bench till I can mess with it more.
Sent out the red 2 speed knob today, Andy --
Tommy is right -- just go to a craft or hobby store to get some SS rod.
Might have the washers & shims -- but do not think so. These reels were very short production -- and parts are basically impossible to locate. Fortunately, I have a few for members.
The shims & washers are easily sourced -- just got to match them up -- either online, or local hobby shop.
Best,
Fred
thankfully none of the parts that can't be sourced or something else used in place are broken. The one small shim washer and the pin was it other than cf drags I'll file fit I don't think it will take much other than cleaning, greasing, oiling, and reassembly. Thanks for the knob that pin was stuck in there good wouldn't have got it any other way
Fred the knob came in while I was gone on vacation thanks a lot, your a savior for these old reels. Hopefully I can find some time this week to start cleaning everything and getting it back together.
Wow, that's a dandy reel & I can see you're having a blast working on it, even with all the "trials and tribulations". Keep the story coming; I'll bet there is a lot of interest.
I'll keep it coming unfortunately as much as I like working through the accumulation of old reels I have now, they're usually pretty low on the priority list of things to do. Been busy so haven't had time to start getting it back together.
I had no idea about this reel either. This is one cool reel....Jeff
Got one of these old, rare 275 Super 2-speeds on the bench now --
Will start it in a few days...
Doing it for Sheridan -- one of our members.
He asked Adam to cut some CFs and SS eared and round drag washers. With the HD metal spool -- we will see how it does when the reel is completely restored, serviced, micro-tuned, and the drag stack has Cals.
That 2 speed is smooth, overbuilt, and effective.
These old Supers are a strong reel with a double anchored bail guide, tough gears, and dead simple operation in the salt.
Best,
Fred
I had no Idea there was a 2 speed Super.
I'll keep it simple with the single speeds I have. ;)
Enjoying the show.
Thanks Fred, Figured I'd get it done by the best. I'd posted on here about how to lap the washers and Adam messaged me that he could cut me some washers, couldn't say yes fast enough, thanks Adam. When I get it back I'll test it with a drag scale and see what kind of numbers it gets. This could get interesting. Sheridan
Wow, that's so cool.
My friend is fishing with a 2-speed Roddy spinner reel. These are very interesting.
It reely is very " COOL " . For me it's really neat from a design standpoint maybe not so much for actual fishing....Jeff
Sorry was gone for a while on my annual training in the Army Reserves finally got mine all back together put back together I still need to find some rod to put the red gear selector knob back on. I left the drag stack stock but I replaced the resistax with cf's I filed down starting with sedona 3000 cf's. I was going to try lapping down the factory metal washers to squeeze in a few more cf drag disk but opted not to for now just wanted it back together. If you don't mind pm'ing adam's contact info I may buy some of those stainless washers from him. I kind of had a bummer moment on a single speed super I had been meaning to get to for a while while taking it apart and wondering what kept the bail from tripping back to closed I found the aluminum cast in ear on the rotor that helps support the bail release was broken off of the rotor. So it may become a parts reel and I might have to pick up another single speed. Anyways parts cleaned up let them soak in mineral spirits then an ultrasonic cleaning. regreased using quicksilver 2-4-C grease. I use it cause I always have some on hand for the jet drive and it has been working well for me.
Fred looks like the one your working on is starting in much better shape than mine. Keep us posted on yours and take pictures of it along the way. Tried to take detailed pics of mine going back together.
pics continued
more pics bearing cleaned up then greased installed
cf drag I made next to one of the resitax put the side cover with gears back on with the crosswind piece and attached the handle. Assembled the spool the same as factory just with the greased CF disc I made. Reel operates great drag is a lot smoother really strong I don't have scale to measure it with. I'd be very interested in the stainless washers. last pic is the broken rotor from my single speed super :'(
Quote from: foakes on August 29, 2017, 04:52:14 AM
Got one of these old, rare 275 Super 2-speeds on the bench now --
Will start it in a few days...
Doing it for Sheridan -- one of our members.
He asked Adam to cut some CFs and SS eared and round drag washers. With the HD metal spool -- we will see how it does when the reel is completely restored, serviced, micro-tuned, and the drag stack has Cals.
That 2 speed is smooth, overbuilt, and effective.
These old Supers are a strong reel with a double anchored bail guide, tough gears, and dead simple operation in the salt.
Best,
Fred
Fred how does one get some of those CF's and stainless drag washers for the super like you have pictured.
Adam (777) cut those for Sheridan --
And they turned out very well -- Adam knows what he is about.
Best,
Fred
I sent a set of Super drag washers to Adam last week. Three metals and three fiber.
He is probably just drying out from Irma so we haven't yet talked about how many to cut. I'm hoping to get a 5 stack of thin washers in the 270 spool and maybe more in the 550 spool. Stay tuned.
steve
Caution is helpful on the plastic spools in regards to over-dragging...
They are only going to take so much -- then they will break.
On the metal spools -- I think rather than milling out the drag stack cavity -- thinner greased CF's are better.
Got to remember, even with the resistex old brown drags -- these caught trophy fish worldwide for 3 generations. The Cal's greased CFs with thinner SS washers, and more of them for more surface stoppong power -- I think is the key to smoothness and more drag.
The reel will easily handle the increased drag with no issues -- the problem comes when we use a plastic spool or make a metal spool weaker by milling.
That doesn't mean we shouldn't experiment -- just know the limitations and what makes sense from a time vs. effort vs. result scenario.
IMO only.
Best,
Fred
Fred I agree with you, hence why I'd like to get my hands on some of those thinner washers to fit more cf drag disc in the standard quick super spool. I have the factory drag stack in there now just replaced the resistax with cf ones I made starting with carbontex drags meant for a sedona 3000. It improved the smoothness of the drag greatly, and the probably increased the drag capacity some what, but I don't think a ton. To increase the drag resistance greatly it definetly needs to fit more cf disc which the thinner stainless washers would allow. It's a superb reel two speed or normal one alike with just the resistax being replaced with greased CF, but more drag would certainly be a plus and it certainly is built so that it could handle more drag. I have one spool with stock resistax drag set up and another with CF I need to figure out something to measure how much drag I can get from both. then upgrade one to the stainless washers and increased amount of CF disc and see what it could do. I think one with stainless washers and more CF's would be capable of 15lbs if not some more.
I still have resistax under the spool as I didn't have any other cf disc to use when I made the mod I need to order some more.
Right, Andy --
One thing to bear in mind --
The oldtimers caught many fish much larger than we are getting today -- on older gear with small or limited drags.
So, what is the difference?
The rod -- and the emphasis on using the right type of rod correctly to establish a buffer-action between you and the fish -- and also a natural drag to wear down a large fish.
There is angling skill involved, technique, patience, and many other things we may have overlooked in our quest to get the highest drag out of a reel.
The rod, and the skill of the angler, has much more to do with success, IMO -- than the drag on a reel.
While the drag is obviously important -- a reel is just a line storage device as we play a fish.
Many may disagree, because it is fun to play with upgrading reels -- but the oldtimers were successful not because of their reels -- more due to their skill and a proper rod for targeting their quarry.
Just personal opinions.
Best,
Fred
fred I don't disagree with that at all. In fact I agree, but if I can make something better without too much trouble why not? And it's fun to mess with these reels, and see what they are capable of. Are these upgrades needed no, no they aren't really it's only seldom that I would have fish that would really be pushing it in factory form let alone upgraded. Cause to really push one of these reels for me a fish that would test it would be a 30lb plus catfish. Which I encounter but not with great frequency. More so whats usually the case is I'm sauger jigging or bass fishing with lighter tackle to make it fun, and a big drum, catfish, or hybrid will decide to bite. Giving my lighter stuff with 6-8lb test a run a for it's money. So for me really it's usually the cardinal 3/4, quick 110/220, penn 714/430 that get the most use, and most abuse from the occasional fish that is over their intended limit. The bigger reels really only get pushed every so often with a trophy fish as I might get one 30 plus pound catfish for every 30-40 fish caught. So that isn't frequent as it isn't every time I go fishing that I'm after big catfish.
It's funny you all are disscussing this. Was waiting on some parts in the cleaner & was thinking...You know I like these super reels a lot. After some thought I believe It's best that any modofications for the drag be done in a
manner all can easily benifit from.
I fully believe there is enough material within reason, to be milled out for slightly larger diameter washers. However I dont think i'ts the best way to go. I just dont want to drive to far off the road & end up losing sight of what we have here regarding these reels. At some point it's best to look at another tool for the task.
Andy I've really enjoyed your thread here on this 2 speed Super....Jeff
Quote from: foakes on September 14, 2017, 07:58:00 PM
Right, Andy --
One thing to bear in mind --
The oldtimers caught many fish much larger than we are getting today -- on older gear with small or limited drags.
So, what is the difference?
The rod -- and the emphasis on using the right type of rod correctly to establish a buffer-action between you and the fish -- and also a natural drag to wear down a large fish.
There is angling skill involved, technique, patience, and many other things we may have overlooked in our quest to get the highest drag out of a reel.
The rod, and the skill of the angler, has much more to do with success, IMO -- than the drag on a reel.
While the drag is obviously important -- a reel is just a line storage device as we play a fish.
Many may disagree, because it is fun to play with upgrading reels -- but the oldtimers were successful not because of their reels -- more due to their skill and a proper rod for targeting their quarry.
Just personal opinions.
Best,
Fred
I totally agree, Fred. In addition to rod action, since I only fish freshwater, I prefer top grade mono over braid. I always use a fairly light weight fast or extra fast tip in conjunction with the mono. That allows me to get extreme sensitivity. Some people hate mono stretch but I find it somewhat forgiving in that as long as you don't "horse" the fish you get a little give with both the lighter rod and mono stretch. IMHO it's too easy to rip the hook out of the fishes mouth with braid, even if you are using a moderate action rod.
Quote from: handyandy on September 14, 2017, 04:05:49 PM
Fred how does one get some of those CF's and stainless drag washers for the super like you have pictured.
Those seem to be gathering a fair amount of interest. Give me a few days to get caught up on everything, and Ill get the ones Steve sent me measured up. I will do a run with enough washers for everyone interested, and maybe a few extra sets for me to keep on hand.
Fred, do you know if the drag washers are interchangeable between the different models?
I opened up (4) 270 Supers (including the 2 speed).
The spools are metal. (3) have the stack I sent to Adam.
Tongue-fiber-eared-fiber-tongue-fiber-spool.
I think I measured the stack it at 0.27". (from memory... where are my notes!)
The (1) different spool is a 2 piece metal. It came with one metal washer.
A tongued and no fiber. It has a shallow well and does not have ear slots for the eared washer. It will tough to modify imo.
Also, I opened up (2) 550. The spools are plastic.
they are interchangeable with the 270. The drags are identical to those I sent you. It's a deeper well and the most washers could fit here. With a plastic spool how much drag?
My calcs for 5 stack Super are hiding from me and the pics are in the cloud. Will add these soon.
Fred serviced my nib 550 and it's beautiful He knows way more about these than everyone here. (Midway Tommy?)
I've opened all of six. Freds comments on these reels is priceless. Thanks!
And Adam, Thanks. We want your skills and input (after you dry out of course.)
Please pitch in everybody.
HandiAndy, Riverat and Mo.Thanks for these threads!
Steve (hijacker)
Glad to check a few of mine -- and let you know,tomorrow, Adam.
Pretty sure all of the Super 270's are the same.
Best,
Fred
A couple 270 spools. Totally different washer size.
Spools are interchangeable with all my supers and 550s
(http://alantani.com/gallery/21/medium_12788_14_09_17_10_16_53.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=21884)
(http://alantani.com/gallery/21/medium_12788_14_09_17_10_18_09.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=21885)
Quote from: swill88 on September 15, 2017, 05:24:29 AM
A couple 270 spools. Totally different washer size.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/21/medium_12788_14_09_17_10_16_53.jpeg) (http://alantani.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=21884)
Yes...unfortunately I have the spool with the smaller washer. It appears to be the problem child. So far this week I've read of 5 of these spools opened up by members, only to find that
one...
single...keyed metal washer inside! What the heck kinda drag stack is that? I did add a resistex disc between that one metal washer and the spool, and it is better, but there's no way this set up can compare with the 3-stack spool.
Curious to know more about this situation.
QuoteFred serviced my nib 550 and it's beautiful He knows way more about these than everyone here. (Midway Tommy?)
Fred knows more about the inner workings of DAM reels than I will ever know. I've got at least one of nearly every model or version but I've only dove into my early Junior, Microlite, 110, 110N, 1001 & one 220N, so I'm sitting back here learning from you gents! One of these days the stash in my crates will get serviced/restored and whittled down to the point where going through the DAMs will be a breeze considering the tips y'all are providing. My Super, Line Counter & Two Speed should be a lot simpler now. 8)
The 2 piece split spool is not the one for mods. As stated prior the opening for the drag stack is smaller diameter & not as deep.
The drag knob is 2 bladed, aluminum on the more desirable spool.
The drag knob on all Supers with a split spool that I have come across are 3 bladed & made of plastic.
If you come across something different I'd like to know...Jeff.
Also every line counter I have or have come across has a split spool....Jeff
good to know about what you have found on the drag knobs. Both my spools are the single piece ones both have the metal two blade knobs. So mine hold true that the two blade metal knobs came on the one piece we'll say improved one piece metal spools with the larger drag washer bore. But who knows if that's how mine came originally given the age hard to say. One being a regular one speed super non line counter the other being the two speed.
Quote from: Midway Tommy on September 14, 2017, 10:12:49 PM
Quote from: foakes on September 14, 2017, 07:58:00 PM
Right, Andy --
One thing to bear in mind --
The oldtimers caught many fish much larger than we are getting today -- on older gear with small or limited drags.
So, what is the difference?
The rod -- and the emphasis on using the right type of rod correctly to establish a buffer-action between you and the fish -- and also a natural drag to wear down a large fish.
There is angling skill involved, technique, patience, and many other things we may have overlooked in our quest to get the highest drag out of a reel.
The rod, and the skill of the angler, has much more to do with success, IMO -- than the drag on a reel.
While the drag is obviously important -- a reel is just a line storage device as we play a fish.
Many may disagree, because it is fun to play with upgrading reels -- but the oldtimers were successful not because of their reels -- more due to their skill and a proper rod for targeting their quarry.
Just personal opinions.
Best,
Fred
I totally agree, Fred. In addition to rod action, since I only fish freshwater, I prefer top grade mono over braid. I always use a fairly light weight fast or extra fast tip in conjunction with the mono. That allows me to get extreme sensitivity. Some people hate mono stretch but I find it somewhat forgiving in that as long as you don't "horse" the fish you get a little give with both the lighter rod and mono stretch. IMHO it's too easy to rip the hook out of the fishes mouth with braid, even if you are using a moderate action rod.
I agree with you guys, but if I can make the reel better without major modification or money why not? I agree on the mono I prefer mono. Albeit I do have braid on a handful of rods for specific applications. I have one penn 430 spool with 15lb powerpro, another cardinal 4 metal spool with the same. These spools I use almost entirely for changing out on these reels when I want to cast top waters or jigs in heavy pads/weeds. I personally find the braid allows me to pull the lures like frogs or weedless jigs through thick weed cover/pads much better. I will also use the braid when jigging for sauger/walleye sometimes as even with a good rod I find the sensitivity of braid with a mono or flouro leader to help when they aren't biting hard. The braid doesn't catch as much of the river current and sinks so I can get away with lighter jigs which helps feel the light bite sauger can have sometimes. I like to help out people that will go fishing with me that aren't as in tune with telling the difference between they barely bump bottom or have a sauger stealing their minnow. I also have braid on penn 209 and 309 I use for paddle fish snagging where I don't want any stretch at all so it will sink the snagging hook into the fish, once again it sinks, and is thinner diameter than mono so I can use slightly lighter weights which is nice when you constantly heaving them up and down. So for me braid has it's uses, I prefer mono, and use it mostly. Fred what is the line rough capacity of super spools?
Quote from: handyandy on September 18, 2017, 04:03:36 PM
good to know about what you have found on the drag knobs. Both my spools are the single piece ones both have the metal two blade knobs. So mine hold true that the two blade metal knobs came on the one piece we'll say improved one piece metal spools with the larger drag washer bore. But who knows if that's how mine came originally given the age hard to say. One being a regular one speed super non line counter the other being the two speed.
I will add here that I did recently see 2 Super line counter models with the 2 blade drag knob.
Here is approximate line capacity when these reels were born -- using the mono of the day.
Best,
Fred
The post is up in my section for the new washers/drag kit. Included is a PDF with the dimensions of the drag washers. http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=22913.0
Quote from: Three se7ens on September 25, 2017, 01:48:52 AM
The post is up in my section for the new washers/drag kit. Included is a PDF with the dimensions of the drag washers. http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=22913.0
Awesome thanks, I also add I picked up a parts single speed super it had a two blade drag knob and the single piece spool so far for me the two blades are holding true being on single piece spools.
wow, really old thread but I didnt a 2-speed spinning reel exited much less it now considered a vintage reel, so, where are the modern 2-speed spinning reels?
Quote from: steelfish on October 13, 2021, 01:00:38 AM
wow, really old thread but I didnt a 2-speed spinning reel exited much less it now considered a vintage reel, so, where are the modern 2-speed spinning reels?
Good question, Alex...
Best, Fred
Quote from: foakes on October 13, 2021, 04:32:16 AM
Quote from: steelfish on October 13, 2021, 01:00:38 AM
wow, really old thread but I didnt a 2-speed spinning reel exited much less it now considered a vintage reel, so, where are the modern 2-speed spinning reels?
Good question, Alex...
Best, Fred
My guess is that they are bumping into the fundamental limitations of spinning reel design, especially in the larger reels that would benefit the most from a two-speed gear box.
The load against the rotor/oscillation assembly from the fish pulling does not change based on the gear ratio, so a lower gear range allows you to put more stress on the reel. While some of these top end spinners support a high drag setting, they don't support winding under the type of load that can be handled by the better conventional reels. Low gear on a two speed spinner will allow you to put more stress on the rotor and oscillation components. They would rather sell you a 7:1 ratio reel and tell you pump and wind to relieve the load and not to "winch" on the fish. There are very large parts rotating rapidly or moving long distances on a spinning reel, so it is difficult to design a reel that spins easily when winding for lure retrieval, but is still durable enough to wind under heavy load. Not a problem for the the drag, as only the spool is rotating, but once you start tuning the handle, there are all sorts of motions in all sorts of directions. Having only a high gear ratio makes it harder or the angler to put too much winding load on the reel.
-J
Quote from: steelfish on October 13, 2021, 01:00:38 AM
wow, really old thread but I didnt a 2-speed spinning reel exited much less it now considered a vintage reel, so, where are the modern 2-speed spinning reels?
Well these are the easy one`s to find . https://www.alanhawk.com/reviews/wft.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUwH7tOy2oQ
There is a 3 speed made . https://reeltalk.orcaonline.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=24189
Quote from: oldmanjoe on October 13, 2021, 10:56:08 AM
There is a 3 speed made . https://reeltalk.orcaonline.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=24189
Jeeezzz !! just when I though seeing a 3 speed conventional reel was an odd finding, like the Poseidon 500-R 3-speed I had for repair some years ago, btw, just noticed I never uploaded pictures of the interior of the reel ;D
https://alantani.com/index.php?topic=30440.0
I really dont see me switching gears back and forth on a 3 speed reel, sometimes I forgot that my reel have a lower speed maybe because 4:7 on the Makaira 15 it doesnt feel like a high speed at all and the lower gears of 2:1 is reaaaaally low, so I have only used it few times.
In order for a spinning reel to make sense as a "2-Speed" — the frame, gears, shafts, and materials must be of a very "over-built", simple, and heavy-duty type of engineering.
Few manufacturers are willing to go through the expense and development of a 2-Speed Spinning Reel where few anglers will appreciate, know how and when to shift gears, or even be able to afford the price tag in today's market.
Plus, a reel of this type must be heavy, tough, and in most cases will not have that sleek and blingy appearance that most of today's anglers seem to want.
This is a limited market that will not pay for or justify the R&D.
Best, Fred
;D Well i just love my variable speed reels , it is a very simple design with no over engineering . :-X
I think y'all are missing the point. I don't think it is harder to build a useful two speed spinner, I am arguing that the mechanical functions that make a spinning reel a spinning reel makes it impossible. Fred mentioned weight, which is true, but if you build out the reel to be burly enough to handle the load, I think that the inertia involved in getting the parts turning would become an issue.
The main purpose of a two speed reel is to allow having a high speed for retrieval under light load, and a low speed for retrieval under heavy load. The right angle drive train, the rotation of the rotor , the extension of the spool on the unsupported end of a shaft makes it seemingly impossible (at least to me) to build any spinning reel that is light enough and smooth enough to have the advantages of a spinning reel, but still be strong enough to handle winding under load.
So that just leaves the folks that find two speeds useful without a need load up the reel in low gear. Which makes no sense to me. If I want to retrieve more slowly, I can just turn the handle more slowly on a lighter, less complicated reel. I suspect that the marketplace agrees with me, but there may be a niche that finds it useful.
Thanks for the links Joe. They should rename the WFT reel to WTF :) . Alan Hawk was tough on that reel, but still too kind IMHO. What a mess! Plus it weighs a ton, and they put a weak drag in it, probably to keep the reel from blowing up in low gear. A two speed with zinc gears. Uggh.
In terms of two speed conventionals: I am not a cow tuna guy, but I found that I was losing much fewer medium to large yellowtail, amberjack, and grouper on deeper drops when I switched to two speed reels. Just need the low gear long enough to get the fish clear from the bottom, winding against high drag settings. Works like a winch if you are not too proud to rail the rod a bit.
-J
Funny y'know, i have an ABU 999 / Zangi 3V three speed. At the time (late '50s) they marketed it as more of a festure of convenience. Like, "now you can fish those fast lures as easy as 1-2-3! And slowly crawl those bottom lures for perfect bait presentation!"
Of course they ignored the automatically variable transmission built into a person's elbow and wrist, but still...
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Quote from: jurelometer on October 13, 2021, 08:01:23 PM
I think y'all are missing the point. I don't think it is harder to build a useful two speed spinner, I am arguing that the mechanical functions that make a spinning reel a spinning reel makes it impossible.
-J
They didn't find it impossible 50-65 years ago. In addition to the Italian made models Dr. Rob mentioned and the Dam Quick 275, Frank & Pignard and later Bon Homme, of France manufactured a medium size two speed called the Sup-Matic (707 & 707G). It was distributed in the US by South Bend and sold in Europe under the name Sup-Matic. Federnfabrik and Apparatebau, A.G. of Kaltbrunn, Switzerland distributed what is thought to be the first two speed open face spinning reels in 1954. There are two sizes, a medium/light and a larger ocean size.
Quote from: Midway Tommy on October 14, 2021, 02:22:32 AM
Quote from: jurelometer on October 13, 2021, 08:01:23 PM
I think y'all are missing the point. I don't think it is harder to build a useful two speed spinner, I am arguing that the mechanical functions that make a spinning reel a spinning reel makes it impossible.
-J
They didn't find it impossible 50-65 years ago. In addition to the Italian made models Dr. Rob mentioned and the Dam Quick 275, Frank & Pignard and later Bon Homme, of France manufactured a medium size two speed called the Sup-Matic (707 & 707G). It was distributed in the US by South Bend and sold in Europe under the name Sup-Matic. Federnfabrik and Apparatebau, A.G. of Kaltbrunn, Switzerland distributed what is thought to be the first two speed open face spinning reels in 1954. There are two sizes, a medium/light and a larger ocean size.
Interesting that there has been so many attempts.
Sorry if I was not clear. They important term here is
useful. Turning a spinner into a two speed is not the hard part. The hard part is designing a spinner that can be wound under "big game" loads -which is already a challenge for single speeds. Putting a low speed on a big game spinner takes load off of the gears, but makes it possible to put more (mostly lateral) load on the rotor and shaft, which is where the structural design tradeoff resides that makes a spinner a spinner.
Two speeds on smaller reels (spinners and conventionals) have all been market failures as far as I can see. This makes sense, as the additional cost and maintenance issues don't offset the rather meager benefits of multiple retrieve rates. As Robert mentioned, most of us humans are equipped stock with an infinite variable retrieve system built into our arms.
Once we get into reels that are burly enough to handle loads that benefit from a granny gear, conventional reel design is more compatible with winding against higher loads.
The two smaller brands that Joe found have discontinued their two-speed models with a couple of years, My bet is on mechanical issues.
On a side note, the paperwork that I saw online for the ABU 999 / Zangi v3 that Robert mentioned show a gear ratio range from 3:1 to 4:1 for all three speeds. That seems kind of strange...
-J