This reel came in with a few years of hard use and has never been serviced. 4 of the bearings were rusted. Internally the reel was clean with no corrosion.
It had no freespool and no drag. Easy fix right??
I've been through the reel 4 times trying different configurations on the bellvilles and shims. No luck.
When I cleaned the 2 drag plates only the outer drag was dirty. The inner drag was like new and not dirty at all. This is where my main question comes to play.
Looking at the inner drag plate it is recessed in the spool. How can the brake disc work with it recessed?
Keith
It was 5 bearings replaced. Pinion bearing, 2 drive bearings, and 2 spool bearings.
on other reels, there are small springs that sit in the holes along the rim of the spool to hold the metal rotor away from the drag washer. the 50 should have these as well, no? also, with so much bearing damage, there is also the possibility that water may have gotten underneath the carbon fiber material and cause a bubbling or lifting of the carbon fiber so that it bangs against the rotor. those high spots would also limit free spool.
Hi handi2,
As far as I remember, the 50 and 80 are very similar, if not the same, in assembly.
Go about half way through this...
http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=18748.0
and you'll find where I dismantled, cleaned, and reassembled the spool assembly of an 80.
If need be, I can take the spool out of my 50 SDS, take pictures and send them to you.
Here is the schematic for the AVET 50 in case you don't have it..
http://www.mikesreelrepair.com/content/schematics/Avet_ProEX50-2spd.pdf
josa1
Yes it has the springs and clips as usual but I left the springs out showing the metal drag disc laying flat on the spool. I bought new springs and the new ones are longer. The old ones were bent and could cause the drag disc to hang up.
Quote from: handi2 on September 06, 2017, 06:04:53 PM
Looking at the inner drag plate it is recessed in the spool. How can the brake disc work with it recessed?
you're right, it can't...... :-\
there has to be a shim washer that is missing.
I did shim it up to barely above the spool and still no go. The thing is I can't get any drag out of this reel.
I did notice I have to turn the preset many times to get any drag. No freespool. I also shimmed the outer drag plate, it already has one, and got drag quicker but no freespool. Skimmed on top of the tail plate bearing.
All parts, shims, are in the reel according to the schematic.
The spool sleeve looks awful short too.
Is it possible that the inner pin is missing? Shows as item 22 in the schematic.
Note that the inner brake pad is sandwiched between the inner pin, (BRAKE PAD), then the return spring and outter pin.
Seems that if the inner brake pad was contacting the spool bearing that there would be no free spool.
josa1
All pins are there..
Thanks
I'm going to remove the shim on the outer brake pad and put in under the drag side bearing. On top of the spool sleeve. This may shim the bearing just right.
it's a spacing issue. it's gotta be that! :-\
After the spool bearing, there should be a thrust washer so the drag washer plate sits about 0.040" above the rim of the spool. The spring holding the drag plate should rest about 0.020-0.030" above the drag washer with the clips in place securing the drag plate to the spool. These are estimates.
Then the spring and the pin. From there I will normally spin the spool to ensure that the spool can spin freely without contacting or barely skimming the surface of the drag washer. Then I think the spacing would be resolved.
Good luck.
Bryan
Hi handi2
Well, this is the type of problem that surely raises interest. ???
I have one final thought,,,,,If you look at the schematic and at the 80 tutorial, you will note that there is a raised area on the back side of inner brake pad that contacts the inner race of the spool bearing and pushes the whole brake pad assembly outward. I started thinking that if it was a spacing problem and that if the wrong brake pad mounting disc had been installed, one without the raised area on the inside of the disc, then that would lead to the problems that you are experiencing.
Thanks for letting me participate in your diagnosis...It surely is fun for me.
josa1
Hi Again Handi2
Well, it turns out that another solution comes to mind.
What if the spool bearing was of the improper thickness? This would definitely cause a spacing issue, letting the inner brake pad assembly slide too far up the shaft and come in contact with the spool, thus no free spool. Since the schematic shows no spacers anywhere around the spool bearings this is the last thing I could come up with that might cause the problem.
A post above listing the AVET bearings by reels size says that the dimensions of the EX 50 spool bearings should be: 3/8" x 7/8" x 9/32". Is this what you have in the reel?
josa1
Yes Josa that's the correct size. A very common bearing size used small Penn spinning reels up to 30W Penn reels. All of the Penn 700 series spinning reels from 710 up.
Thanks
Man, that's amazing. If the bearing is right, the pin is in, the drag plate is right, how in the world do you get a plate that is so recessed into the spool? I will really be interested in how you solve this.
I'm working on a Makaira 16 SEa right now and having about as much luck as you're having with the Avet. I'm going to have another go at it this afternoon. When I finish, I'll take my 50 SDS apart, remove the spool, dismantle the spool, take pictures and send them to you.
Good luck!
josa1
I shimmed on top of the spool bearing to get the inner drag plate up above the spool rim as Bryan noted. I have tried this before but it was too high. Great freespool out of the reel. Not good in the reel. I'll remove the shim on the outer brake incase that shim is pushing the outer brake in too far and rubbing.
After I finished the other reels on the table. I'm wearing out the screws on this one..!!
It's getting a bit better.
I now have 20lbs of drag with freespool. Getting closer. I had to shim under the inner brake 0.80 thousand to get the inner brake high enough. I'll add the outer brake shim and try it again. This pushes the outer brake closer to the metal brake disc.
That looks about right. I have never had to use so many shims before though.
I think so remember working on an older Tiagra 80 that experienced similar symptoms, and required shimming on the left spool bearing/under the inner drag plate. I have come to realize that the key to servicing a lot of these larger lever drag reels is getting the spacing right through shimming. It is not always obvious where the shims are needed though, and can take some experimenting to get it right. I was warned to be careful not to overshot, since it can reduce needed clearance in the left side plate for the spool shaft. There is usually room for 3 or maybe 4 shims along the shaft. More then that, and you may be looking for trouble when you lock the drag down.
Sounds like you are getting close to getting this one sorted. I hope you get her back working within factory specs.
John
I agree with Bryan, the height of the bearing looks about right. But why this amount of shims on top of the bearing? Do you know how much thickness in shim stock you added? By the way, I'm totally impressed with the professional appearance of your shims. Makes me ashamed of my beer can shims!
I'm sorta like you Handi2 because I have my own problems. I'm making some progress on the MAK but still not to my satisfaction.
Maybe sometime tomorrow I will take the 50SDS apart.
josa1
25lbs at strike with freespool. Ill find some thicker shims for the inner brake. Its still not like I want it to be.
The Makaira reels are no problem for me owning 5 of them. Too bad only 2 get any use.
One of those off brand Aikaya (sp) reels came in. Its a 30 2 speed. All corroded outside but fine inside. It will be interesting to see what parts they copied. It has a common ARB as seen in the Torium reels plus the common trolling reel double dogs on the left side.
yeah, ideally you'd like about 45 pounds at strike...... :-\
Here are some pictures of the AVET 50 San Diego Special Drag Set Up.
As handi2 has stated, the problem is with the spacing of the inner drag plate, it is too recessed into the spool on his pictures.
Here are a few pictures that might help solve (solved as Inspector Cluseau" says).
This is the reel where the pictures came from...
(http://alantani.com/gallery/21/1203_13_09_17_4_32_10_21865189.jpeg)
DSCN0141
When the outer plate is removed, you get this..
(http://alantani.com/gallery/21/1203_13_09_17_4_32_10_21866788.jpeg)
DSCN0142
The outer drag plate has a "bump out". This bump out flat is .217" below the outer edge as I measure it. For ACTUAL dimension you should probably measure it. My measurements are usually +/- .005", which seems about as close as I can get with my instruments.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/21/1203_13_09_17_4_32_11_218672252.jpeg)
DSCN)0144
Here, the outer drag plate is removed. You see the metal drag plate the both inner and outer carbontex drags press against to produce force. Note the "E" clips that hold the metal drag in place.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/21/1203_13_09_17_4_32_12_218691216.jpeg)
DSCN0146
Here the metal drag plate is removed, the 'e' clips and springs removed and stored. Note that the inner drag plate sits proud of the spool assembly by about .130". This is a telling picture, if you look at handi2's picture you can see a world of difference.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/21/1203_13_09_17_4_32_12_218701950.jpeg)
DSCN0147
(http://alantani.com/gallery/21/1203_13_09_17_4_32_12_21871626.jpeg)
DSCN0148
Here, you can see the rise of the inner drag plate above the spool.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/21/1203_13_09_17_4_32_13_2187233.jpeg)
DSCN0149
I think this rise is controlled by the "bump out" on the back side of the inner drag plate, ".067", if the bump out is less, that could be a problem.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/21/1203_13_09_17_4_32_14_218751432.jpeg)
DSCN0151
This is the spool shaft, bearing and cross pin under the inner drag plate.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/21/1203_13_09_17_4_32_15_21876848.jpeg)
DSCN0153
Here is the bearing. More or less the measurements are .776" wide x .182" thick. It fits on a spool shaft of .547" so the bore of the bearing is near that.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/21/1203_13_09_17_4_32_15_21877703.jpeg)
DSCN0154
(http://alantani.com/gallery/21/1203_13_09_17_4_32_15_218782286.jpeg)
DSCN0155
The bore in the spool that receives the bearing is .248" deep.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/21/1203_13_09_17_4_32_16_2187965.jpeg)
DSCN0156
I'm doing this in a bit of a rush so I might have to edit it. I do hope it help solves this problem.
josa1