Hi,
I was just wondering about braid capacity and the # I should be using for this reel. I was recommended 130# Jerry Brown, however I see hollow and non-hollow as both options for Jerry Brown. This will be my cow setup (first one).
Would like to know if 130# test is the right choice and if I should buy hollow as opposed to non-hollow.
Yes 130 is what many use on the Mak 30. Hollow is preferred by most. It's a lot a line, and with that reel you can fish for just about anything.
The cost will be offset by the lines longevity. If a wear say the first 100 yds you just splice a new 100 on. That's one of the advantages of hollow.
Quote from: mrwilson99 on August 13, 2017, 08:11:03 PM
Hi,
I was just wondering about braid capacity and the # I should be using for this reel. I was recommended 130# Jerry Brown, however I see hollow and non-hollow as both options for Jerry Brown. This will be my cow setup (first one).
Would like to know if 130# test is the right choice and if I should buy hollow as opposed to non-hollow.
IMO if you are looking for a true cow reel I'd step up to a SEA50. Can a 30 do it? Yes, but not most's first choice for a true cow reel. The 30's are really only a wide 20 in the Makaira line.
With that said I'd go hollow with any large game reel. The advantages in rigging options and splicing in other braid with a knotless connection out weight the cost savings by going with a solid braid IMO.
Thanks and makes sense! Taking baby steps here :)
I will go with 130!
Quote from: Normslanding on August 13, 2017, 09:08:19 PM
Yes 130 is what many use on the Mak 30. Hollow is preferred by most. It's a lot a line, and with that reel you can fish for just about anything.
The cost will be offset by the lines longevity. If a wear say the first 100 yds you just splice a new 100 on. That's one of the advantages of hollow.
Post some pictures after your done.....always like to see what others are bringing to the party....Bill
Quote from: mrwilson99 on August 15, 2017, 01:49:54 AM
I will go with 130!
Quote from: Normslanding on August 13, 2017, 09:08:19 PM
Yes 130 is what many use on the Mak 30. Hollow is preferred by most. It's a lot a line, and with that reel you can fish for just about anything.
The cost will be offset by the lines longevity. If a wear say the first 100 yds you just splice a new 100 on. That's one of the advantages of hollow.
You may also want to think about a stepped braid application. Say 130 lb on the bottom and adding something like 50 yards of 200 lb with a knotless connection on top. I would do this if I was not sure how I would rig my leader like using the Chinese finger trap type connections. Something like a nail/nub knot, serve, Sato crimps and alike.
Now if your looking going loop to loop for your leaders strait 130 should be fine.
Edit: I'm not knocking JB's Line One Spectra as I use it on some reels but there are some very good manufactures of braid out there now. If you can go to a couple of tackle shops and look at /feel the 16 strand hollow braided lines they have to offer. I would not go lower than a 16 strand braid (this is pretty normal for 130 lb braid and above now a days) but it should also have a tight weave, feel silky to the touch and offer a good line diameter to breaking strength.
The last things you want to be compromising on when fishing Cows is rod, reel, line, leader and terminal tackle.
You will be spending multiple thousands and thousands of dollars to get over fish on boat costs regardless of where or how you fish.
Don't skimp on tackle.
Go hollow, and use professionally made wind-on leaders. **After** you boat some fish learn to make your own if you want to play around.
What are "cows"? Sorry, I'm a SE fisher here.
Cows are Tuna between 200 and 300 lbs, over 300 is a super cow.
i would guess close to 600 yards of 130 pound jb hollow with a 100 pound mono or fluorocarbon topshot and 30 pounds of drag at strike.
Quote from: David Hall on August 16, 2017, 02:53:12 AM
Cows are Tuna between 200 and 300 lbs, over 300 is a super cow.
In Hawaii we call them Gorillas.
Any bad gaff (other then in the head) is known as a 'San Diego' since the long-range boat videos often show them being brought over the rail tail first... lol
Check out this BD thread for sum Hawaiian fish slang...
https://www.bdoutdoors.com/forums/threads/fish-slang.35973/#post-349846
John
Quote from: David Hall on August 16, 2017, 02:53:12 AM
Cows are Tuna between 200 and 300 lbs, over 300 is a super cow.
That'll put 'yer drag to the test!
Just to let you know there is a saying on long range boats "friends don't let friends fish 100 lb when in cow town", too many hart breakers happen. Just thought you may wan to know.
Quote from: SoCalAngler on August 16, 2017, 11:33:52 PM
Just to let you know there is a saying on long range boats "friends don't let friends fish 100 lb when in cow town", too many hart breakers happen. Just thought you may wan to know.
Yep, 100# hollow is light tackle fishing, rolling the dice to use a lighter reel.
Live bait is usually fished 130-150# and many kite reels 150-200#....You're not bassin' at the lake and no telling what you may hook up.
Quote from: johndtuttle on August 16, 2017, 11:40:14 PM
Quote from: SoCalAngler on August 16, 2017, 11:33:52 PM
Just to let you know there is a saying on long range boats "friends don't let friends fish 100 lb when in cow town", too many hart breakers happen. Just thought you may wan to know.
Yep, 100# hollow is light tackle fishing, rolling the dice to use a lighter reel.
Live bait is usually fished 130-150# and many kite reels 150-200#....You're not bassin' at the lake and no telling what you may hook up.
John,
I was talking more of the leader material not 100 lb braid. 130 lb braid is fine with a Mak 30 and as Alan stated some 100 lb mono/fluoro would fish fine on that reel. My point, not clear as usual, is 100 lb leaders are the weak link. 150-200 lb leaders seem to be fished most often when targeting cow sized YFT.
I just did not want to see someone not familiar with these sized fish to be under gunned. Can it be done? Like I said yes, but there is a way better chance of loosing a true cow than when using a larger setup.
If the OP already has the Mak 30 bring it for sure and Alan's rigging suggestion is solid. But, if he is buying new a 50 sized reel with 200 lb braid or at the minimum a 200 lb leader will increase his odds of landing a cow a great deal.
Most LR boats out of San Diego that do those types of trips have very good loaner tackle, so if he does not have a 50 sized reel setup one can be gotten if needed at a very low cost for use from the boat. Just let them know before your trip one is needed.
Genuine question; what does the 130lb offer you over, say, 60lb Jerry Brown Hollow (which breaks at roughly 90-something)?
Mak30 is rated to 55lb of drag so you wouldn't have any real chance of breaking the "60". That's if you could hang on at that kind of drag level.
Thinner line = less drag in the water, more capacity, blah blah. Only real difficulty is splicing in a mono or fluoro topshot heavier than maybe 120lb.
i'm taking a wild guess here, but a mak 30 might hold well over 1000 yards of 60 pound braid. it's really skinny stuff and i would never trust it for this level of fishing. any little abrasion and the line might fail.
personally, i went with a mak 16 with 100 pound braid and an 80 pound topshot, a mak 20 with 100 pound braid and a 100 pound topshot, and a mak 50 with 130 pound braid and a 130 pound topshot. all drags were set to 30% of the topshot weight at strike. i skipped the mak 30 because i got both the mak 20 and the mak 50. if i was going to get one reel, it would have been the mak 30 as a good compromise between the 20 and the 50.
Quote from: boon on August 17, 2017, 07:55:55 AM
Genuine question; what does the 130lb offer you over, say, 60lb Jerry Brown Hollow (which breaks at roughly 90-something)?
Mak30 is rated to 55lb of drag so you wouldn't have any real chance of breaking the "60". That's if you could hang on at that kind of drag level.
Thinner line = less drag in the water, more capacity, blah blah. Only real difficulty is splicing in a mono or fluoro topshot heavier than maybe 120lb.
All standard and proven methods for fishing big game are well known, there is no need to overthink this.
Generally, you fish 1/4-1/3 the main line rated strength **max** when fishing big fish. This is because you are potentially on a fish **for hours** and all connections are sorely tested in what is called "cycle loading" that wears and saws inside of knots, crimps and the line itself.
A line's rated strength becomes less and less reliable as the fight drags on.
60# Braid is **light string** that IS sometimes used when desperately trying to get more capacity when fishing the lower range of "big fish" (ie 150-175#). But 100# is considered light tackle for Cows and 130# is middlin' and then 150-200# as posted previously for kite reels or trolling.
With 60# braid and bigish fish, you use 15-20# of drag...these are not fish you snub short then bring to the boat, but fish (ie 125-150# Tuna) that can pull 15-20# of drag for an hour or two. Even though JB Hollow has an ABS of ~90# many fish in this class are lost to mystery break-offs that are due to cycle loading or abrasion of one kind or another.
With 100# braid you can fish 20-30# of drag for an hour or two etc etc...
Remember, there are guys with dozens and dozens of Cows under their belt fishing 200# hollow with 400# leader on the kite looking for 300#+++ fish....and they know what they are doing.
And I promise you, having caught more than most, less than some, there is not a man alive that doesn't want the heaviest possible tackle with a 300# plus YFT on the end of his line, though some are willing to lose that class of fish when smaller models are around to save some effort and have fun.
The guys that know say even "friends don't let friends fish 100#" when Cows are around...that saying came to be known for a reason: Decades of experience on thousands of fish in the San Diego Long Range fishery.
Quote from: boon on August 17, 2017, 07:55:55 AM
Genuine question; what does the 130lb offer you over, say, 60lb Jerry Brown Hollow (which breaks at roughly 90-something)?
Mak30 is rated to 55lb of drag so you wouldn't have any real chance of breaking the "60". That's if you could hang on at that kind of drag level.
Thinner line = less drag in the water, more capacity, blah blah. Only real difficulty is splicing in a mono or fluoro topshot heavier than maybe 120lb.
Also, if one wants to insert say 130-200 lb leader material into the braid one would not have a chance inserting it into 60 lb braid. 80 lb may be a issue also but personally I have not tried it. Though I have gotten 100 lb IGFA rated line into some JB 60 with a lot of work and I don't think I would try it again.
Another thing drag pressure alone should not be the only thing considered when looking at any reel. Ok you stopped the fish now you have to get it to the boat. This is where cranking power comes into play. Spend too long on any fish of any size and your odds will increase very fast of loosing that fish.
Also having the power in the reel, rod and fisherman may come into play more here in our So Cal long range style of fishing than in other places. When on a long range boat here you may be fishing with 15-25 other people, others may be hooked up at the time, so no chasing one fish. Often when fishing cow sized fish on LR boats your on the anchor, so again no chasing one big fish. When anchored in the right spot, the conditions are good and fish are being hooked captains are very reluctant to move the boat, so again no chasing of one big fish.
If I was on a six pack boat, say out of PV, and someone hooked a really big fish I would want the captain to chase the fish if needed no matter who was hooked to it. But, if I was on a LR boat and big fish started to go on the chew and the captain said reel in we are going to chase this one fish I would be a little mad to say the least.
I know this was a bit long winded but my point is that a lines breaking strength or the drag pressure of a reel are only a couple of factors when it comes to hunting truly big fish. Many other things must be considered as well.
So for the most part it's for the abrasion resistance; particularly in case you get across/around another line?
We don't do a lot of head-boat style fishing here so the only abrasion we really worry about is on the leader itself.
So I was able to get a hold of a spool of JB 130# and will be topping this off with 130# fluro. I haven't spooled the reel yet, but looks like that is what I will be going with. This reel will be paired with a UC Viper 7'6" rod.
nice! try to pack the braid under at least 15 pounds of pressure!
My spooling machine won't be able to do 15#, so will take it to charkbait and have them do it. Thanks Alan!
Quote from: boon on August 23, 2017, 10:38:19 PM
So for the most part it's for the abrasion resistance; particularly in case you get across/around another line?
We don't do a lot of head-boat style fishing here so the only abrasion we really worry about is on the leader itself.
Its abrasion resistance for the connections in long fights, abrasion from the fish itself or other fish during the fight.
A given line may have a "tested" breaking strength when tied with certain knots. This is one test, with one pull, not cycles of pulls for hours.
That number is far, far lower after you have been on a fish for 2-3 hours. This is called "cycle loading" and all connections start sawing on themselves with the varying pressures during a fight. Eventually every line breaks at a knot or crimp or other weak spot if cycled enough times.
The heavier line gives you more time to fight a fish at a given drag.