I recently purchased a very interesting Penn International--Model 12. It is a first gen model, built in 1979, according to the serial number. Being that is 38 years old and NOS, I felt it belonged in the Collectible Category, hope this works.
I have so many questions about this reel that I hope I can present this properly. First is the box. The label has a gold sticker placed over the Retrieve Ratio specs stating that this particular reel is a 3.5 to 1 ratio. No International 12 was made with that ratio. All are either 4 to 1 or when it became known as the Model 12H ("H" meaning high speed) the ratio changed to 4.1 to 1.
(http://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo244/m3040c/Penn%20Intrnational%2012--custom/1976-78--Penn%20International%2012--Modified--NOS%20in%20Box%20001%20-%20Copy%20465%20x%20443_zpsk6oje1fg.jpg)
(http://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo244/m3040c/Penn%20Intrnational%2012--custom/1976-78--Penn%20International%2012--Modified--NOS%20in%20Box%20007%20-%20Copy%20567%20x%20475_zpsda6h5qlf.jpg)
Here is the complete package. The catalog is a 1976 edition and the International brochure has a date of 1978. The serial number of the reel tells me it is a 1979 by the first two numbers, not sure what the "L" means, cound be the month of the year or the Production Run of the year it was made.
(http://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo244/m3040c/Penn%20Intrnational%2012--custom/1976-78--Penn%20International%2012--Modified--NOS%20in%20Box%20011%20-%20Copy%20520%20x%20380_zpscv2nmgn2.jpg)
(http://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo244/m3040c/Penn%20Intrnational%2012--custom/1976-78--Penn%20International%2012--Modified--NOS%20in%20Box%20016%20-%20Copy%202_zps15pl8bdy.jpg)
The reel itself is what raises so many questions. The retrieve ratio is weird but the physical modifications are extreme. The tail plate has been drilled out and specially coated, the stand and cross bar have also been drilled out and then chrome plated. The chrome does cover everything and was done after it was drilled, so this was professionally done. The drill hole layout is precision also.
(http://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo244/m3040c/Penn%20Intrnational%2012--custom/1976-78--Penn%20International%2012--Modified--NOS%20in%20Box%20016%20-%20Copy%20504%20x%20411_zpsqc1qrmcw.jpg)
(http://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo244/m3040c/Penn%20Intrnational%2012--custom/1976-78--Penn%20International%2012--Modified--NOS%20in%20Box%20021%20-%20Copy%20639%20x%20389_zpsnk1ptqd0.jpg)
(http://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo244/m3040c/Penn%20Intrnational%2012--custom/1976-78--Penn%20International%2012--Modified--NOS%20in%20Box%20015%20-%20Copy%20614%20x%20380_zpszdlg4plf.jpg)
On the inside rim of the tail plate are stamping that are odd and not seen on an International. Sort like special engravings would be.
(http://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo244/m3040c/Penn%20Intrnational%2012--custom/1976-78--Penn%20International%2012--Modified--NOS%20in%20Box%20032%20-%20Copy%20591%20x%20441_zpsnyjf5apc.jpg)
(http://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo244/m3040c/Penn%20Intrnational%2012--custom/1976-78--Penn%20International%2012--Modified--NOS%20in%20Box%20034%20-%20Copy%20830%20x%20308_zps5tvu5usp.jpg)
That's about it. My reason for posting this reel was done in the hopes of some one possibly recognizing it. I have a few opinions that it may be a SMU (Special Makeup Unit) possibly made for a special customer or distributor. I would love to have a bit of provenance for this reel.
Thanks in Advance for all comments.
(http://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo244/m3040c/Penn%20Intrnational%2012--custom/1976-78--Penn%20International%2012--Modified--NOS%20in%20Box%20013%20-%20Copy%20319%20x%20470_zpsfrqywa1b.jpg)
I have seen that reel before. In pictures, probably right here on this forum. Not all too long ago; probably within the last year or so. I don't recall much about what was said about it. But I'm sure more answers will be along soon.
Re: the left sideplate, it just looks like it was first stamped with a name, like A D O N I S for example, then the drill guy came along and poked some holes, and had it re-anodized. (or is it just spray-painted?) That is why the colors don't match. Ask Tom Testa, maybe he remembers it. Or Cal Sheets. About the chrome, idunno... maybe same thing.
EDIT: oh sorry... found the earlier thread on the other forum. You already knew all i said; never mind.
.
QuoteI have seen that reel before. In pictures, probably right here on this forum. Not all too long ago; probably within the last year or so. I don't recall much about what was said about it. But I'm sure more answers will be along soon.
Re: the left sideplate, it just looks like it was first stamped with a name, like A D O N I S for example, then the drill guy came along and poked some holes, and had it re-anodized. (or is it just spray-painted?) That is why the colors don't match. Ask Tom Testa, maybe he remembers it. Or Cal Sheets. About the chrome, idunno... maybe same thing.
EDIT: oh sorry... found the earlier thread on the other forum. You already knew all i said; never mind.
No, you have added a new twist. The other Forum (Facebook) did not suggest that the stampings may be someone's name and no one mentioned Tom Testa. Wish I knew him, is he a member here?
Thanks for your input.
No, i meant the ORCA thread, but whatever. Tom Testa runs a reel refurbishing outfit called Reel Colors, and has for a long time. Probably not much of an internet guy; i don't think i have ever seen him online anywhere. He has a website though, and probably a phone number.
.
Not sure, Mike --
But the "DNS" could be MADE IN USA -- before it was drilled and painted.
The other picture lettering could be a patent date?
It will be interesting to see what you discover.
Nice find!
Best,
Fred
Yeah, i like that idea... MADE IN U.S.A. on the one side and PAT. x.03x.2xx on the other. And that first patent digit was a 4.
.
What an interesting piece. Hope more info comes up on it.
QuoteBut the "DNS" could be MADE IN USA -- before it was drilled and painted.
The other picture lettering could be a patent date?
QuoteYeah, i like that idea... MADE IN U.S.A. on the one side and PAT. x.03x.2xx on the other. And that first patent digit was a 4.
Just looked at an original unmolested Model 12. You guys are both right. There is one piece of the puzzle.............. That's great!
I got with the Cal Sheets people and David Martin. Neither of them has seen this reel.
Thanks for the attention to this.
I will look for the Tom Testa site.
BTW, I suspect this reel is Powder Coated, not painted.
QuoteTom Testa runs a reel refurbishing outfit called Reel Colors, and has for a long time. Probably not much of an internet guy; i don't think i have ever seen him online anywhere. He has a website though, and probably a phone number.
Thank you Robert. This is a very interesting lead. I found the website. Tom Testa does custom work and powder coating. His shop is in Connecticut. The person I bought this reel from is from Connecticut. I have sent a full set of photos of the reel and my descriptions to Mr Testa.
One never knows ::)
I saw this listed a while back and also was quite curious! Glad you got it, awesome little reel.
QuoteI saw this listed a while back and also was quite curious! Glad you got it, awesome little reel.
Thanks Dan,
I have some inquiries still out that I am waiting for responses. So far no one is claiming to have modified it yet or even know who might have done it. An interesting mystery. ??? ???
Mike,
Re your Int.#12. From a printer's view , if that box price was altered around 1978 a lone sticker would have set back someone around $200 whether they wanted 1 or 200 in total. Today it would cost bugger all with digital print but to match the gold and print on sticky stock in the 70's would have required typesetting and plates and printing the gold and black ink . That makes it a professional job and not some cheap fix.
What was done to the reel would be fairly straight forward by a good engineering job with the right machinery . Then they farm out the rechroming . Penn could have done the same mod's except they would have had the tail plate anodized and not powder coated . IMHO. That guy in Connecticut is looking like the modifier .
Ray
QuoteRe your Int.#12. From a printer's view , if that box price was altered around 1978 a lone sticker would have set back someone around $200 whether they wanted 1 or 200 in total. Today it would cost bugger all with digital print but to match the gold and print on sticky stock in the 70's would have required typesetting and plates and printing the gold and black ink . That makes it a professional job and not some cheap fix.
That is interesting. Never considered the printing cost of a single sticker.
QuoteWhat was done to the reel would be fairly straight forward by a good engineering job with the right machinery . Then they farm out the rechroming . Penn could have done the same mod's except they would have had the tail plate anodized and not powder coated . LMHO. That guy in Connecticut is looking like the modifier .
I feel you are correct about the colored tail plate. I have never known Penn to powder coat anything. You and Dave Martin said the same thing. Penn would have stripped the anodizing, drilled the plate and re-anodized it. So the custom shop is looking like the place the reel must have been done. I am waiting for a response from Tom Testa and from one other source. The trail is getting cold. Need more clues.
Thanks for your input Ray....................
Quote from: Superhook on July 05, 2017, 10:16:19 PM
Mike,
Re your Int.#12. From a printer's view , if that box price was altered around 1978 a lone sticker would have set back someone around $200 whether they wanted 1 or 200 in total. Today it would cost bugger all with digital print but to match the gold and print on sticky stock in the 70's would have required typesetting and plates and printing the gold and black ink . That makes it a professional job and not some cheap fix.
What was done to the reel would be fairly straight forward by a good engineering job with the right machinery . Then they farm out the rechroming . Penn could have done the same mod's except they would have had the tail plate anodized and not powder coated . IMHO. That guy in Connecticut is looking like the modifier .
Ray
Hi Ray and Mike hope all is good with both of you ! I just wanted to share a couple pictures of stickers used on International boxes to update on reel improvements or changes as it seems common on the Internationals. I have these two pictured then also have two other 130 H Internationals with slightly different stickers but they are packed away to deep to get to this morning !! Just saying that they did use stickers on International boxes often. Thanks . John Taylor
QuoteHi Ray and Mike hope all is good with both of you ! I just wanted to share a couple pictures of stickers used on International boxes to update on reel improvements or changes as it seems common on the Internationals. I have these two pictured then also have two other 130 H Internationals with slightly different stickers but they are packed away to deep to get to this morning !! Just saying that they did use stickers on International boxes often. Thanks . John Taylor
Thanks John, I have not had many Internationals, maybe four or five over the years. None of them had stickers, so your input here is important. This tells me that the sticker is more than likely Penn, even if the drill outs and new finishes are not. The only quirk is Penn built the early Model 12's with two ratios, a 4 to 1 and a 4.1 to 1, according to the catalogs. The reel I have has the 3.5 sticker and is truly a 3.5 ratio. I wonder if there are other International Model 12's with that lower speed.
The sister reel to the Model 12, is the Model 6. That model is also a 4 to 1 ratio.
Strange. The learning curve is continuous.
Mike, I'm not sure I could tell the difference between 4.1 and 4.0 :1 ratio :) ...awesome reel by the way!
QuoteMike, I'm not sure I could tell the difference between 4.1 and 4.0 :1 ratio Smiley ...awesome reel by the way!
I could not agree more and I believe the difference is nothing. There is no difference except in the names and the specs. In 1978, Penn introduced the International 12 with a 4 to 1 ratio on the box and a 4.1 ratio in the catalog. There is no 1979 catalog, so the 1978 spec basically stood for two years. In 1980 Penn does a full page intro of the new, super fast International 12H and puts the ratio at 4 to 1 in the catalog, basically slowing the reel down by a tenth of a point and naming it as a High Speed reel.
There was also a big change in what is offered for these interesting Light big game reels. In 1978, the introduction of this new side plate size International was created in three sizes. a International 6, International 12 and a International 12W (wide). All these reels shared the same 4.1 to 1 retrieve ratio spec. In 1980 all these models disappeared leaving the International 12H with a black plastic handle knob in place of the old anodized aluminum knob. The Model 12H was the Model 12. The Models 6 & 12W are gone in 1980, never to return. So, if you want to add a nice shelfie to your collection look for the Model 6 or 12W, they are very limited.
Sorry, but Photobucket, the free service I have used for years just went nuts. They asked me for a $39.99 per month subscription in order to host my photos. I will not say what I told them; but, know that I can no longer post photos here nor are any photos I have posted supported any longer.
Is there another way to post here?
Mike,
I spent a lot of time today and the past few to rebuild posts with lost photos.
I posted other members that I had access to.
Unfortunately, I wasn't allowed access to any of yours.
You need to log in to your photobucket accounts and download them while you still can.
Then they can be rebuilt.
Feel free to PM me.
We need to do this.
Daron
I switched to Flickr, but who knows how long they will stay free....
I just download all my pics to my computer and post from there. Is there a reason I shouldn't do that ? Seems to work good. John T.
Quote from: 54bullseye on July 07, 2017, 02:21:18 PM
I just download all my pics to my computer and post from there. Is there a reason I shouldn't do that ? Seems to work good. John T.
That's fine, as long as you only have 4 pics per post and don't want to write anything between them. It doesn't work so well for longer tutorials.
Sid
Oh that allows you to format whole bunch of pics then load all at once ?
If you use the "Additional Options" at the lower left of the "Post reply" window you can bulk add up to four pics, they will appear at the end of your post with no option to insert text between them.....
Yeah I usually do four pics with writing then do a couple more replies for additional pics if needed. Good enough for what I post. Thanks ! John T