I fish some of my star drag reels in their upper range. The obvious problem when doing this ( Except with Penn Torque Star Drag) is at some point the handle gets hard to turn & your left pumping & reeling down on the fish. Such as using 60 & above on a
Baja / US113. Even my often considered lethargic catfish can put slack in whats considered to be a faster rate of retrieve.
Has any fished with a slower retrieve rate of say less than 22" using a single speed or star drag reel ? I guess what I'm attempting to find out is what some of you think might be the slowest but yet still fishable rate of retrieve for a star drag reel... Jeff
It's always going to be a trade-off between hard-to-crank and fast. I figure I will spend about 99% of the time just retrieving line under little load and about 1% of time with the reel hard to crank. Give me the comfort and performance of a fast retrieve 99% of the time and I'll put up with the other 1%. I like small baitcasters because they are easy to palm, but the smallest have only 12 IPT owing to the spool diameter. 12 IPT is really annoying. Most vintage baitcasters are about 18 IPT. I can tolerate 18 IPT but still yearn for the 28 IPT of some modern baitcasters.
-steve
Steve, great explanation.
What I've found, coming from mostly fresh water fishing & the fish I'm after most a 22" - 25" retrieve works great most of the time. It is lacking in some cases where one wants their rig back & the bottom of the river is full of snags... Jeff
I don't think Surfmasters do much more than 19-20 inches, and I fish them a lot. I seem to either like really slow or screaming fast, the middle clearly works but I rarely want it. For instance, I really don't use a 4:1 Jigmaster much, a slower 250 or a 5:1 Jigmaster is almost always preferred. I do use the rod to bring in most any fish, however.
Ron Jones
I don't know the ipt of a squidder but it seems painfully slow. Still like fishing it though
I fish mostly bait. On reels using anything below 40 I dont care as much about ratio. Though I like it faster in this case than my other reels with heavier line. I was thinking most salt water guys would want a faster reel for most fishing ?
Honestly, most saltwater guys like two speeds in order to have an easy time fighting a fish with the slow Senator and jig the fish with the fast Senator.
I'm a wimp who likes star drags. So I use a slow star for bait, a fast star for surface iron and a two speed after the first few fish!
The Man
Steve summed it up with the "hard to crank vs. fast". But gear ratio and "inches per rotation" are not 100% of the story. The handle plays into it as well; that reel that is a tough bear with a big load on it becomes a lot easier to crank with a longer arm - but you are not retrieving any faster (in a line/rotation sense) it just becomes easier to crank.
My next handle is going to be a double handle with a long blade on one side and a short blade on the other. It also needs the weight balanced from one side to the other. When you're just taking up slack a short handle is quicker..... like those tiny little handles they used to put on tournament casting reels.
-steve
Quote from: oc1 on June 04, 2019, 07:45:49 AM
My next handle is going to be a double handle with a long blade on one side and a short blade on the other.
-steve
Oh Wow! A true budget 2 speed.
Seriously though I believe your idea has real merit... Jeff
Quote from: Rivverrat on June 04, 2019, 09:57:42 AM
Quote from: oc1 on June 04, 2019, 07:45:49 AM
My next handle is going to be a double handle with a long blade on one side and a short blade on the other.
Seriously though I believe your idea has real merit... Jeff
Yep, an offset handle, one side long/one side short would be interesting.
come on Mike, Mo, dont tell Steve & Mike Currie, MCH, that they wont sleep, till one of them achieve it, cheers Don.
My first build, I had no idea it was called hot rodding, was a full Accurate wide 4/0. I put SS 4:1 Accurate gears in it, and an Accurate handle in long power position, thinking this would give power in crank and still be faster than stock from the combo of higher ratio and wider spool maintaining diameter longer. This was pre-braid, mind you. The outfit worked great cranking grouper out of rocks, where maximum pressure and speed the first five seconds basically decides who wins.
I love Squidders, Surfmasters and Beachmasters, and own a bunch, but they are inherently bound to their 80 year old designs- small gears are slow, and they aren't robust enough to truly be on the power side of things (especially the brass mains) in the world of braid. That said, if memory serves, the WR drum was caught on a Squidder, around 93 pounds, and in reality 99% of anglers will never encounter a fish that large and strong. My 0.02.
Quote from: mo65 on June 04, 2019, 11:24:40 AM
Quote from: Rivverrat on June 04, 2019, 09:57:42 AM
Quote from: oc1 on June 04, 2019, 07:45:49 AM
My next handle is going to be a double handle with a long blade on one side and a short blade on the other.
Seriously though I believe your idea has real merit... Jeff
Yep, an offset handle, one side long/one side short would be interesting.
(https://www.picclickimg.com/d/l400/pict/283295501028_/DAM-Quick-Exquisite-630-Angelrolle-Spinnrolle-mit-MDS.jpg)
In the 90's this interesting system was present on the high-end DAM spinners (I bought one for light lures ) the handle was adjustable by pressing the light grey button ...very clever .
As long as you could figure out how to not hit the other side, it would be great to put a little ball on the short side and a larger grip on the long arm. Might be a bit much when it comes to balance.
Ron Jones
First shot at it. This one is stainless steel with a bit of hard silver solder.
(https://alantani.com/gallery/28/15480_16_06_19_1_03_59_284331911.jpeg)
Iimg]https://alantani.com/gallery/28/15480_16_06_19_1_04_00_28434703.jpeg[/img]
(https://alantani.com/gallery/28/15480_16_06_19_1_04_03_284351290.jpeg)
(https://alantani.com/gallery/28/15480_16_06_19_1_04_06_28437347.jpeg)
Some stainless rivets were ordered but have not arrived yet. So, I punted. The shaft is threaded at each end with a nut and a drop of red Loctite.
(https://alantani.com/gallery/28/15480_16_06_19_1_04_05_284361897.jpeg)
(https://alantani.com/gallery/28/15480_16_06_19_1_04_08_28438884.jpeg)
The long side is seldom used until there is a fish on. I love the short side. It is so quick to crank that it is almost like getting a faster gear set. Unlike the tiny double tournament handles from back in the day, you get the quick retrieve but don't have the opposing knob banging your knuckles.
Fishing has been good for most folks, but all I could muster is this little guy
(https://alantani.com/gallery/28/15480_16_06_19_1_04_10_28439171.jpeg)
This one is made of PEEK plastic with stainless posts and sleeves.
(https://alantani.com/gallery/28/15480_16_06_19_1_03_56_284312014.jpeg)
(https://alantani.com/gallery/28/15480_16_06_19_1_03_56_284311586.jpeg)
PEEK is very rigid and stable. It machines beautifully but is difficult to file or sand. This is the "natural" color.
The handles balance on a straight edge at the point where the handle nut is. However, it would be better if they had dynamic balance. It's like the difference in balancing your tires with the old-fashioned bubble stand versus the newer machines that spins the tire at high speed to find the dynamic balance.
-steve
You never fail to impress Steve. Those stainless knobs look great, the 'little' lathe must be pretty solid to make those!
Mike
That is something I'd love to try on my Ambassadeurs. I love the short handle for fast easy cranking, but hate those early double paddle stock handles. Like Steve said, those small doubles are hard on the knuckles, especially if you have large hands. Great work Steve!
Always an amazing job with your restoration skills!
Would you mind sharing what type of contraption you use as a cutting tool holder?
I know freehand on a tool rest would be impossible.
Thanks Steve!
Sal
Steve, like what you did here... Jeff
I think I'm missing the question. My initial answer is 1:1. I used to fish scampis by letting them rest on the bottom for 30 seconds or so and then reposition about 6 inches. Not a very high rate of retrieve.
Quote from: Alto Mare on June 16, 2019, 12:15:31 PM
Would you mind sharing what type of contraption you use as a cutting tool holder?
Thanks Sal. The little Taig micro lathe has a tool holder on an X-Y carriage. It accepts tools ground from 1/4" square stock, but nothing else. The carriage only moves forward-backward and left-right with little hand wheels. There is no power feed and the carriage cannot be set to move at an angle. To move the tool at an angle you have to manipulate both hand wheels simultaneously. It is exactly like drawing with an Etch-A-Sketch toy.
Here is a photo from the Taig web site.
http://www.taigtools.com/mlathe.html (http://www.taigtools.com/mlathe.html)
I have better photos but cannot upload them right now. Some Chinese guy is trying to steal my raingarden domain name and has hacked my domain registration account. They tell me it will be straightened out in a few days. Sometimes I can upload photos to the AT MyGallery but that won't cooperate right now either. Anyway, it's a PhotoBucket moment for me because none of my photos are displaying in old posts.
-steve
Cool little lathe Steve! I wouldn't think 1/4 horsepower would be good enough for turning stainless steel, but then again, anything is doable with you.
Thanks Steve!
Sal
Steve, your talent never ceases to amaze, those handles are innovative, effective, and great looking to boot!
Great job my friend and nice fish,,,,,, ;D
Quote from: oc1 on June 16, 2019, 08:47:34 PM
Quote from: Alto Mare on June 16, 2019, 12:15:31 PM
Would you mind sharing what type of contraption you use as a cutting tool holder?
Thanks Sal. The little Taig micro lathe has a tool holder on an X-Y carriage. It accepts tools ground from 1/4" square stock, but nothing else. The carriage only moves forward-backward and left-right with little hand wheels. There is no power feed and the carriage cannot be set to move at an angle. To move the tool at an angle you have to manipulate both hand wheels simultaneously. It is exactly like drawing with an Etch-A-Sketch toy.
Here is a photo from the Taig web site.
http://www.taigtools.com/mlathe.html (http://www.taigtools.com/mlathe.html)
I have better photos but cannot upload them right now. Some Chinese guy is trying to steal my raingarden domain name and has hacked my domain registration account. They tell me it will be straightened out in a few days. Sometimes I can upload photos to the AT MyGallery but that won't cooperate right now either. Anyway, it's a PhotoBucket moment for me because none of my photos are displaying in old posts.
-steve
Very nice work and nice omilu. I actually placed an order thru you years ago via raingarden from you years ago. What a small world!
Quote from: wailua boy on June 17, 2019, 04:05:23 AM
I actually placed an order thru you years ago via raingarden from you years ago. What a small world!
Yeah, small. I probably still have a copy of your order. It was good while it lasted but the fish farm biz is pau now.
-steve
Quote from: Alto Mare on June 17, 2019, 12:34:24 AM
I wouldn't think 1/4 horsepower would be good enough for turning stainless steel,
The trick seems to be shallow but definite cuts with a tool sharp. If the cut is too deep it will bog down. If the tool gets dull it will start to scrape and work-harden the stainless.
-steve
Last one and then I'm done.
The blade is a piece of 1/16" stainless plate.
(https://alantani.com/gallery/28/15480_17_06_19_2_32_23_284401281.jpeg)
The blade was drilled and tapped for 4-40 screw. This is primarily just to hold the screws in place while they are soldered to the blade.
(https://alantani.com/gallery/28/15480_17_06_19_2_32_22_284401592.jpeg)
A piece of stainless tubing was used for the long side knob and a piece of 1/2" brass rod for the short side knob. Both knobs were attached to the blade with a 4-40 stainless machine screw leaving a few thousandths lateral play to keep it from binding.
(https://alantani.com/gallery/28/15480_17_06_19_2_32_28_284431197.jpeg)
The protruding end of the screw on the back side was silver soldered to the blade and then ground flush.
(https://alantani.com/gallery/28/15480_17_06_19_2_32_24_284421147.jpeg)
The static balance point leaves just enough room for the handle nut (handle screw in this case) making the short side of the handle as short as it can possibly be.
(https://alantani.com/gallery/28/15480_17_06_19_2_32_30_284442107.jpeg)
As short as possible was too extreme. When cranking the short side of the handle you can feel a bit of resistance as it gets the spool moving. It is like a little inertia hump to get over every time you start cranking.
(https://alantani.com/gallery/28/15480_17_06_19_2_32_29_28444948.jpeg)
This one was very quick and easy to make. You could do it with only a Dremel and a small propane torch. The obvious problem is that the knobs are rotating on the machine screw threads instead of a sleeve. This will probably make the knobs wear out prematurely or cut grooves and bind.
(https://alantani.com/gallery/28/15480_17_06_19_2_32_33_284461852.jpeg)
-steve
I'm liking this idea more and more. I'll have to start working on something.
Ron Jones
never saw this post before, Steve, I know you can build blanks for fishing rods and now you're building your own handles !!
never ceases to amaze me.
Thanks Alex. I could no longer see the photos and tried to fix it. My life is in shambles.
I missed this, too... back to Jeff, if he still cares
Quote from: Rivverrat on June 04, 2019, 02:03:55 AM
Steve, great explanation.
What I've found, coming from mostly fresh water fishing & the fish I'm after most a 22" - 25" retrieve works great most of the time. It is lacking in some cases where one wants their rig back & the bottom of the river is full of snags... Jeff
if getting/staying off the bottom is the big concern, how about those finned/winged sinkers
that [allegedly] plane up from force of retreive, similar to the way a crankbait planes down
Quote from: oc1 on November 04, 2021, 03:39:21 AM
Thanks Alex. I could no longer see the photos and tried to fix it. My life is in shambles.
I could saw them copying each link of each pic and paste them on the web browser.