https://www.ereplacementparts.com/titanium-drag-washer-p-1544934.html (https://www.ereplacementparts.com/titanium-drag-washer-p-1544934.html)
Does anyone know why the single speed TLD drag washers are called "Titanium"?
They are labelled so in the company schematics but the washers are actually a canvas like material.
Could it be that the canvas is impregnated with titanium oxide or is this perhaps a typo?
Anyone have a clue?
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maybe they just like[d] calling things "titanium" -- the old black Shimano spinner bodies from late 80's / early 90's were called "Titanium Graphite"... on the other hand, the metal drag washers in some old high-end Shimano spinners (e.g., original Sustain F) actually were titanium
i have no idea where they got "titanium," but the drag washers are made of canvas. it can't be more obvious. :-\
What's inna name? Sometimes everything, sometimes something, sometimes nothing, but it sounds good. I still don't know what "Dartainium" is. I know that after submerging my tld 15, the "titainium" drag became temporarily worthless. Would a greased C-tex have faired better? Probably, but how much Iown't know. Most people that've worked on dartainium washer drag systems know how brittle they are. I'd imagine if one researched dartainium & titainium they would be referenced as "proprietary" information.
Gfish
Had to try, but my research skills suck. From bassresource.com: one guy posted that dartainium drag washers were carbon based like C-tex. Another corrected him, saying that they were a graphite based material(sounds more realistic) hence the fine powder residue and breakage issues.
Nothing on titainium, except that Accurate says they use titainium washers because they "don't shred" as eaisly. No detail provided by Accurate as to actual titainium or variations thereof, used.
Quote from: Gfish on September 29, 2017, 06:47:31 AM
Had to try, but my research skills suck. From bassresource.com: one guy posted that dartainium drag washers were carbon based like C-tex. Another corrected him, saying that they were a graphite based material(sounds more realistic) hence the fine powder residue and breakage issues.
Graphite is crystaline carbon .
I would mot be surprised at all if Dartanium Washers were a carbon compound.
However there is a big difference between solid biscuits and woven fiber mat when it comes to flexibility and performance characteristics.
A colloquial name for the big Dartaniums is "potato chips" in reference to their brittle fragility.
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The drag washers in the TLD's are canvas but seem to have a bonding or coating agent on them, I remember reading somewhere that Titanium dioxide can be used as a hardner in the manufacture of rubber, I think the bonding/coating on the canvas drags may have titanium dioxide added.
I think it's just a play on words used by the manufacturers, titanium dioxide used in the making of the drags, so they call them titanium drags, sounds good from a selling point.
Quote from: braz13 on September 29, 2017, 01:25:23 PM
The drag washers in the TLD's are canvas but seem to have a bonding or coating agent on them, I remember reading somewhere that Titanium dioxide can be used as a hardner in the manufacture of rubber, I think the bonding/coating on the canvas drags may have titanium dioxide added.
Yes, I wondered about this. Titanium Dioxide has many industrial uses and in many instances imparts a white finish to the end product. I used to do lapidary work when I was a kid and we used white titanium dioxide powder for the final polishing stage of the gemstone. That might explain the colour of the TLD drag washers.
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Quote from: exp2000 on September 29, 2017, 02:56:25 PM
Quote from: braz13 on September 29, 2017, 01:25:23 PM
The drag washers in the TLD's are canvas but seem to have a bonding or coating agent on them, I remember reading somewhere that Titanium dioxide can be used as a hardner in the manufacture of rubber, I think the bonding/coating on the canvas drags may have titanium dioxide added.
Yes, I wondered about this. Titanium Dioxide has many industrial uses and in many instances imparts a white finish to the end product. I used to do lapidary work when I was a kid and we used white titanium dioxide powder for the final polishing stage of the gemstone. That might explain the colour of the TLD drag washers.
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Interesting...I thought Titanium Dioxide was one of those highly slippery substances.
Titanium dioxide is primarily used as a pigment in paints/varnishes and cosmetics as a whitening agent. I don't see any point in using it in a 'drag' environment - unless it's make-up for a drag queen ;D ;D
Bryan you may have been thinking of Tungsten disulphide - that is a reely slippery sucker ;D
Quote from: Gfish on September 29, 2017, 05:41:49 AM
What's inna name? Sometimes everything, sometimes something, sometimes nothing, but it sounds good. I still don't know what "Dartainium" is. I know that after submerging my tld 15, the "titainium" drag became temporarily worthless. Would a greased C-tex have faired better? Probably, but how much Iown't know. Most people that've worked on dartainium washer drag systems know how brittle they are. I'd imagine if one researched dartainium & titainium they would be referenced as "proprietary" information.
Gfish
here's the word on dartanium! http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=1519.0
Quotehere's the word on dartanium! http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=1519.0
Thanks Alan. I enjoyed reading that but could find no reference to Dartanium or did I miss something?
QuoteTitanium dioxide is primarily used as a pigment in paints/varnishes and cosmetics as a whitening agent.
Another big industrial use for titanium dioxide is as a UV stabilizer in plastics and synthetic ropes to arrest degradation which is why they are often white in colour.
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dartanium is just hardened, brittle carbon. not even carbon fiber. that's what shimano put in the old gold trinidads. they broke like tortilla chips. they also got really sticky with the addition of teflon grease and a little wear.
I once cut one of my canvas washers from an early tld star drag to find it is a thin metal washer covered in canvas.
Maybe this metal is titanium.
The graphite bodies of these reels are made from what Shimano called XT7. It is a said to be 20% titanium.
Basto
? How much weight difference would it make for titanium drag washers ;D
Maybe a titanium skeleton for a canvas washer was to give it rigidity. I don`t own a TLD lever drag reel, but would be interested to know if there is anything inside the canvas material to give this large washer rigidity.
Is titanium more resistant to salt corrosion than stainless steel?
I am away from home at present, but when I get home I will cut one of the canvas washers I saved from my 20/40 to show here.
Basto
Quote from: basto on September 30, 2017, 06:03:08 AM
Maybe a titanium skeleton for a canvas washer was to give it rigidity. I don`t own a TLD lever drag reel, but would be interested to know if there is anything inside the canvas material to give this large washer rigidity.
Is titanium more resistant to salt corrosion than stainless steel?
I am away from home at present, but when I get home I will cut one of the canvas washers I saved from my 20/40 to show here.
Basto
Thanks Basto. Looking forward to seeing your drag washer autopsy :)
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Cut/tore up a TLD 5, 15, 25 and a charter special drag, all very similar construction, canvas outer material bonded to a canvas inner, the inner core looks to be impregnated with some sort of resin. Would suggest manufacture would be to impregnated the inner canvas core with resin then sandwiched it between the two outer layers.
(http://i1368.photobucket.com/albums/ag194/braz_campbell/IMG_1209_zpsphxrvdsf.jpg) (http://s1368.photobucket.com/user/braz_campbell/media/IMG_1209_zpsphxrvdsf.jpg.html)
(http://i1368.photobucket.com/albums/ag194/braz_campbell/IMG_1210_zpsb9divqoy.jpg) (http://s1368.photobucket.com/user/braz_campbell/media/IMG_1210_zpsb9divqoy.jpg.html)
What! No titanium?
Have to ask on the Arthur C. Clark forum ;)
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Quote from: Benni3 on September 30, 2017, 03:24:57 AM
? How much weight difference would it make for titanium drag washers ;D
MUCH lighter than steel
Quote from: basto on September 30, 2017, 06:03:08 AM
Maybe a titanium skeleton for a canvas washer was to give it rigidity...
Is titanium more resistant to salt corrosion than stainless steel?
less rigid than spring steel & virtually impervious to corrosion... hence the use for no-kink wire leaders (and artificial hips/knees)
No kink wire leaders are generally a Nickel/Titanium alloy - Nitol, a version of memory wire - a very interesting alloy - it can be made to act like a muscle when different voltages or temperatures are applied. Nitol stents are sometimes used for angioplasty. A stent is a small mesh tube that's used to treat narrow or weak arteries. Arteries are blood vessels that carry blood away from your heart to other parts of your body. A stent is placed in an artery as part of a procedure called percutaneous coronary intervention (PCI), also known as coronary angioplasty. A very fine Nitol mesh tube can be inserted into an artery - when it warms up to body temperature it will expand to 'open up' the artery
The titanium, or titanium alloys for joint replacements are quite different. Virtually all variants of titanium alloys are very corrosion resistant :)
The Nitol used for wire leaders tries to return to it's normal state (straight) at everyday temps unless knotted very violently (or heated above a certain temp)!
Wire leaders made from Nitol have another useful characteristic they can stretch under load like mono. So be careful if crimping for tooth proof wire leaders (I would double crimp to be safe) ;)
Wow! This place is a mine of information!
Basto
excellent frames for super-light eyeglasses, as well -- no need for heavy/bulky spring-hinged joints
To be honest with you, I never heard of the Shimano "Titanium" drag washers. At least for the TLD's. The original canvas washers were called Dartanium and the next generation of carbon fiber were called Dartanium II if I am correct.
Shimano must have copyrighted that name and stuck with it for monetary reasons.
I am no expert and I admit I may be 100% wrong on this, but that is what I believe to be.
Perhaps they had "Titanium" washers for other series of reels.
Quote from: conchydong on October 01, 2017, 01:42:47 AM
To be honest with you, I never heard of the Shimano "Titanium" drag washers. At least for the TLD's. The original canvas washers were called Dartanium and the next generation of carbon fiber were called Dartanium II if I am correct.
Shimano must have copyrighted that name and stuck with it for monetary reasons.
I am no expert and I admit I may be 100% wrong on this, but that is what I believe to be.
Perhaps they had "Titanium" washers for other series of reels.
Dartanium washers are the amorphous carbon wafers used in star drag conventionals and baitcasters.
The so-called "tatanium" canvas washers used in the TLD single speeds are what we are talking about here.
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Quote from: exp2000 on October 01, 2017, 03:48:15 AM
Quote from: conchydong on October 01, 2017, 01:42:47 AM
To be honest with you, I never heard of the Shimano "Titanium" drag washers. At least for the TLD's. The original canvas washers were called Dartanium and the next generation of carbon fiber were called Dartanium II if I am correct.
Shimano must have copyrighted that name and stuck with it for monetary reasons.
I am no expert and I admit I may be 100% wrong on this, but that is what I believe to be.
Perhaps they had "Titanium" washers for other series of reels.
Dartanium washers are the amorphous carbon wafers used in star drag conventionals and baitcasters.
The so-called "tatanium" canvas washers used in the TLD single speeds are what we are talking about here.
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You are correct. I was confused with all of the different names Shimano has. Still am. :)
I've done a lot of searching trying to find any information on TLD titanium drag and I cannot find anything other than the name "titanium drag, Shimano don't even list it in their reels glossary page, they list Dartanium and Double drag plate with descriptions but "titanium drags" aren't mentioned.
Is it possible "titanium drag" is just a marketing name to make it sound better than a canvas drag, or is there a form titanium used in the manufacture of a drag component, ie titanium dioxide, golf ball manufactures use "titanium" in their names, no actual titanium but titanium dioxide is used.
Shimano also use the word titanium in some of the graphite framed reel ranges "graphite/titanium", again is it a play on words or is there a form of titanium used in the manufacture process?
Most of my fishing is done with the TLD range, all my reels are very well looked after and I regularly service them, all reels are now have carbon drag and until this thread started I never considered the name titanium drag, it's now niggling away at me.
Just found this!!!
It’s an extract from a magazine “Popular Mechanics” from April 1985.
The article is describing some of the technology that Shimano are starting to use in the manufacture of their rods and reels.
(http://i1368.photobucket.com/albums/ag194/braz_campbell/Titanium%20drag_zps9pgk2grr.png) (http://s1368.photobucket.com/user/braz_campbell/media/Titanium%20drag_zps9pgk2grr.png.html)
Solved :) :) :)
Congratulations Braz.
You are the official recipient of the Arthur C. Clark prize for 2017 ;)
I was beginning to think that this thread would go on forever!
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Thanks exp2000
Happy to contribute, things like this I find difficult to leave alone.
There's always an answer somewhere or with somebody, especially on this site.
Cheers
Brain
Thank you for your research Brian. I have been wondering about this for decades, but could never find anything.
Basto