With Penn now eliminating all high end Star Drags, it looks like my love affair with Penn Reels is at a close. for the fishing I do, there is no way I can switch to lever drags. I am constantly swapping the drag on the fly. What do you do when you hook a 20 inch blue fish when you were porgy fishing.
I don't get the love affair with leverwinds. For the life of me, I just can't understand why they killed the Torque star drags, especially small sizes.
isnt that what lever drags are meant for? And excell at? I use an Okuma metaloid 5 as my travelling reel. It Accompanies me on every trip I take to any coastal location.Thanks to info on this site I did a little blue printing , plus a little hot rodding and have pretty much a monster 0f a small reel. I did the angular contact bearing and the spool sleeve and also tried out one of my own ideas of turning the steel drag plate down in thickness on the contact face.because of the design of the plate,thinning it down results in a contact patch about 8.5 mm wide on the outer circumference instead of about 6 on the stocker.then I knocked down the steep drag ramp up andmarked the right side of the reel with points corresponding to selected drag numbers. filed down the little drag lever stop at strike so i can easily push it from free to full with only detents.I run it with 50 braid and use it for everything from yellowtail snapper to big gags and aj's.its set at about 22.5# drag at max and it's marked at 8,10,12,16 and full.so it can handle anything from 25# leader to 60#without having to reset the drag with a scale.it could probaby make more drag but set up like this , it's still very smooth at max and not overtaxing the bearings. if I need more drag at any stage of the fight, it's simple to add by sliding the lever to the next dotand knowing how much drag it's putting out at practically any spot in the dial
#1, LD reels work better for what you are doing, you are not limited to freespool, strike and full.
#2, Nothing wrong with a Penn star drag Fathom.
Lee and I have had this conversation, I agree with the Porgy fisherman. Lee is right that the Fathom is a very nice reel.
I do believe that you have a few Torque star drags, couldn't imagine wearing one of those out in a lifetime.
The Man
Quote from: mrbrklyn on February 19, 2020, 02:49:34 AM
With Penn now eliminating all high end Star Drags, it looks like my love affair with Penn Reels is at a close. for the fishing I do, there is no way I can switch to lever drags. I am constantly swapping the drag on the fly. What do you do when you hook a 20 inch blue fish when you were porgy fishing.
I don't get the love affair with leverwinds. For the life of me, I just can't understand why they killed the Torque star drags, especially small sizes.
There are many reels that wouldn't let you down.
Try one of our custom reels, you have a few choices.
Sal
Sounds like a conversion/custom is what you need? Even based on a Penn. Lot's of durable, gorgeous, practical builds to look at :)
This is an interesting dilemma and one I have wondered about it as well. The saltwater star drag seems to be potentially on the way out in all sizes now thanks to braid and the new generation of spinning reels. I am pretty sure the large models will be stopped sooner rather than later e.g. the Senator size reels??? There are now more small to medium sized lever drags on the market. Are you stuck on Penn? There are still some other brands that offer high end star drags though e.g. Daiwa and Shimano and that American company that has had 48 different names, it was called Release at one stage?
Quote from: mrbrklyn on February 20, 2020, 10:44:36 AM
Quote from: CapeFish on February 20, 2020, 10:10:47 AM
Are you stuck on Penn?
I'm not stuck on Penn but I've been happy with their support and durability of their products. But I am not going to use a lever drag. I actually wonder if Penn will be around in 5 years. The website seems to be not updated well, and maybe the coglomerate has squeezed the life out of them. :(
There verity of offerings is much slimmed down as well. It just makes me feel abandoned.
Track me down in 5 years to say hello.
tony
Quote from: mrbrklyn on February 19, 2020, 02:49:34 AM
For the life of me, I just can't understand why they killed the Torque star drags, especially small sizes.
Comes down to the demand. The Torque SD series debuted in 2011. We sold a good amount over the years but the sales dried up recently.
tony
Accurate makes a nice star drag, AVET will be releasing new star drags next month Might be worth a look
Shimano Trinidad reels are star drag and well built. Another option would be to pick up several star drag Torque reels before the supply dries up and set on them until needed, but that would take lots of $. And the Penn Fathom star drag reels are also good.
Newells and parts for them may be even harder to come by than for used Torques. I wonder if Valley Manufacturing still has the rights to Newell reels? I was wishing that Penn would have bought Newell after Carl passed away but it never happened. Lot's of star drags still being made by the Asian companies as well as the other USA companies, hopefully you can find one that suits your needs and holds up.
Scott
Quote from: mrbrklyn on February 20, 2020, 03:44:47 PM
Quote from: Ron Jones on February 19, 2020, 04:51:52 AM
Lee and I have had this conversation, I agree with the Porgy fisherman. Lee is right that the Fathom is a very nice reel.
I do believe that you have a few Torque star drags, couldn't imagine wearing one of those out in a lifetime.
The Man
I seem to wear them out every season :) Every season I pack them up and send them to Penn for repair and restoration.
The fathoms, I would SO recommend them you your average fisherman. But for me, I would eat them monthly.
Why would a Fathom wear out faster than a Torque?
Greased Dartanium II (CF) drags are far better than the old Dartanium ones.
Even the old gold Trinidads could be upgraded with Carbontex washers with Cal's grease. Both my old Toriums have upgraded drags without the Craptanium washers. Shimano's with Dartanium II have greased carbon fiber washers which is most of their stuff these days.
Quote from: mrbrklyn on February 20, 2020, 03:33:38 PM
Quote from: CapeFish on February 20, 2020, 10:10:47 AM
This is an interesting dilemma and one I have wondered about it as well. The saltwater star drag seems to be potentially on the way out in all sizes now thanks to braid and the new generation of spinning reels.
I'm not sure what braid has to do with this and honestly, I don't know what the facination with leverdrags are at all. When you have 300 pounds of pressure on your rod, and the drag is being let out, who wants to essentially let go of the reel to reach up and adjust a lever drag with an upward motion of the palm of your hand, arm and wrist, when a good star drag, like the Torques star drag, up can simply adjust with a flip of your thumb, the drag of the star. The knob is right there with the crank. The Torque drag is so smooth to adjust, you can completely control it under any pressure. Penn is saying that the Star Drag sales dried out. Penn really should be looking at that and try to figure out where there marketing went wrong.
On the website and in there marketing, they never outlined how superior the drag mechanism is over that one had come to expect from say a Senator or a Fathom, etc al. That drag is cream of the crop. I could tow a volkswagon with that drag and then with mininal effort, adjust the setting without any slipage. It was a monster peice of technology, probably the best ever seen on any other reel ever produced, and they never promoted it as the go to option instead of the lever drag.... if you want to catch fish.
If you want to play with your gear all day, then go for the 2 speed lever drag. Pull out a slide ruler and do your calculations on a spread sheet, and mark those lever spots ...
- Mako - 1.2 CM
- Porgies - 2.3 CM
- Blue Fin - 2.1 CM
- Striped Bass - 2.8 CM
Or you just get on the boats and WHOO - I hit something huge, and gently adjust your pressure up before your real runs out of spooled line.
Enjoy..
It would have helped, also, if the gear ratios on the Torques were smaller so you don't rip the hook out of the mouth of a 30 inch Pollock.
The fact that ***everyone*** with experience on the east coast is still fishing with hopped up Newells might indicate where a market might be... low rations, spin like hell, smooth star drags in a light weight frame work (ina variety of colors )
Just a theory. Spinning reels now easily take enough line so are taking the place of smaller star drag reels that were traditionally used for casting. New spinning reeels also do fine in the salt and are more affordeable than they used to be. You can get away with a much smaller reel as well. A small powerful lever drag can easily take 600m or more of 80lb line so most people will then not use an enormous heavy old star drag for heavier fishing. Hence my thinking star drags are no longer so popular thanks to super thin braid.
Quote from: mrbrklyn on February 20, 2020, 03:44:47 PM
I seem to wear them out every season :) Every season I pack them up and send them to Penn for repair and restoration.
With all due respect, the reel is not worn out, it just needs maintenance.
Star drag reels are not going to be replaced by either spinners or lever drag. Lever drag will not cast as well because the spool is never completely disengaged. Spinners have been trying to replace the conventional reel for seventy years but they're still just uncomfortable grinders with little to no advantage.
You're certainly not the first to become disillusioned with Penn. Penn may continue to decline and loose market share, but there are other brands willing and able to fill that star drag niche.
-steve
Quote...there are other brands willing and able to fill that star drag niche.
Speaking of which, a friend just bought himself an Accurate Tern 500N.
It really is a beautiful-looking and nicely balanced design.
Looking forward to seeing how it performs over the remainder of the summer...
there is a star drag reel I would like to test, the okuma tesoro, the little one
suposedly it has some features taken from the makaira LD reels like the SS gears materail, eliptical cut, etc.
Torque star drag vs Fathom star drag:
Machined aluminum frame/sideplate vs. diecast aluminum frame/sideplate
All stainless gears vs. bronze main/stainless pinion
7 BB vs. 5 BB
3 position clicker vs. 1 position
No casting brake vs. centrifuge casting brake
The main difference (accounts for most of the price difference) is the cast frame on the Fathom and the machined frame on the Torque. I've never had an issue with the frame on the Fathom 12 (little cutie) and I've caught plenty of fish a lot bigger than a 20" bluefish that pulls a lot harder.
Torque lever drag vs. Fathom lever drag:
Machined frame vs. diecast
6 BB vs. 5 BB
Both have all-stainless gears
Not to mention the thrust bearing!
My Fathom 25nld2 has caught both YFT and Wahoo over 50# and numerous YT between 20 and 30# without issue.
Very good read,,,,, ;) not a big fan of lever drag,,,,, :-\ don't know why they have numbers there it's not pounds,,,, ??? They could just put some Egyptian symbols there for good luck,,,,, :D when fighting a fish the last thing I want to do is play with the drag,,,,,,,,, ;D
I agree its sad to see the Penn torque SD go away, it is a very finely built reel. Probably the best out there. But with proper care and maintenance the new Penn Fathom SD should hold up to many good years of use. Daiwa Saltiga star drag or Shimano Trinidad A is a very good choice also, as long as you give them the proper care and maintenance which this site is all about. Just my opinion!
Look what I found.
(https://alantani.com/gallery/31/1583_21_02_20_3_04_15.jpeg)
There are a bunch in fleabay, but not many on the Penn official site.
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=penn+torque+star+reels&_trksid=p2380057.m4084.l1313.TR1.TRC0.A0.H0.Xpenn+torque+star+reel.TRS0
WOW!!
And not a single black Torque SD!
If Penn felt that the line of Torque SD sales was decreasing, perhaps a re-issue of the black models would have created a bump in sales...
Alright Mrbrklyn, sounds like you are rougher on your reels than I am. I'd love to see how the Accurate Tern would fare after you fished one for a season. Seems like it might be a good test, and I've been wondering if they are worth the asking price, for awhile now.
I liked the Chevy/Mercedes comparison, but the Mercedes vehicles are supposed to be high-maintenance and high cost for said maintenance. If I could eaisly afford one, I still wouldn't buy one.
How's that Senator-lookin levelwinder from your arsenal hold-up?
That top reel I'm showing appears to be a very good deal with free shipping.
I do not own the torque yet, but when I visited Penn one of the worker was assembling one and made me take a close look.
I also played with one that was assembled for a while
They're put together nicely, if you fish that reel within specs it shouldn't fail you.
Sal
The Shimano Trinidad will work for a lot of people. Unless they have changed the alloy, metal & or heat treat in the gears I will personally stay away from them unless a bargain shows. I have worn the out gears on one Torque 12. That reel had caught a lot of fish with 6 - 8oz. sinkers being used.
The Torque in my opinion is a noticeably more spit polished with better performance than the Fathoms. The gears unless the new Fathom has changed are not stainless like the Torque.
Push the drag on a Fathom 25 star much past 15 lbs. & the frame begins to twist. Not so with the Torque. This isn't a problem unless someone like myself fishes these reels at their upper end. The Torque just has a better stronger frame & gearing.
Something else I dont hear much about is the benchmark quality of Penn's stainless gears sets. They seem to stand well against all other makes of gears. At least in the reels I've used.
Penn's gear sets in "ALL" Torque models come out of the box smooth, with out any break in period & the gears stay smooth for a long time.
Unlike reels made to catch unknowing fisherman at the tackle counter. Simply because Penn's Torque gear sets break with what has been the accepted norm for gears in other reels.
Penn gave us the best made star drag reel ever made. The reel buying public did not support it... Jeff
What gear ratio are you looking for ?
Mystic has the 4.8:1 ratio. This ratio grabs 23" of line in the 12 & 15. The 30 & 40 Torque grab 36" with same ratio & each turn of the handle.
You will have to order the pinion & main gear separately. The main gear is in the link the matching pinion is found at the bottom of page.h
Have a hard time understanding the need for a lower gear than this in the 12 & 15. I can easily turn the handle on both of my 12's with drag at 20 lbs. Doing this with 6.0:1 while grabbing 28" of line with each turn of the handle.
The Tiburon handle & knob upgrade helps a great deal with doing this. The Tiburon handle makes for very tight fit that doesnt wobble or move. This is the only upgrade the Torqes need
https://www.tiburonfishingreels.com/t-bar-lite
I have had catfish & carp put slack in my line because the lowest ratio after a long cast could not keep up with them when they turn & run towards me. Same has happened to me with fish up close when using the 4.8:1 gears in the smaller Torques... Jeff
I've learned, especially with smaller reels, to ignore the gear ratio and pay attention to the inches per crank. The diameter of the spool counts for a lot!
Quote from: MarkT on February 26, 2020, 02:50:41 PM
I've learned, especially with smaller reels, to ignore the gear ratio and pay attention to the inches per crank. The diameter of the spool counts for a lot!
This is what I was attempting to say when stating the inches per turn of handle.
But again Mark's simple explanation is much better.
mrbrklyn, please report back how this new ratio works for you. Very interested in hearing your thoughts... Jeff
Seems low going by numbers. But that Tiburon reel will most likely grab some where around 37" - 40" line with each turn of the handle. What Mark & I are hoping you see is it's not all about the gear ratio a 3.6:1 ratio is not the same on different size spools. A taller spool will most always grab more line regardless of ratio when compared to a smaller reel. The ratio is in a constant state of change after a cast & during retrieve... Jeff
https://www.meltontackle.com/penn-torque-star-drag-reels.html
Quote from: Rivverrat on February 26, 2020, 06:58:44 PM
Quote from: MarkT on February 26, 2020, 02:50:41 PM
I've learned, especially with smaller reels, to ignore the gear ratio and pay attention to the inches per crank. The diameter of the spool counts for a lot!
This is what I was attempting to say when stating the inches per turn of handle.
But again Mark's simple explanation is much better.
mrbrklyn, please report back how this new ratio works for you. Very interested in hearing your thoughts... Jeff
I certainly agree with this as far as fishing technique, but when it comes to fighting a fish, gear ratio makes all the difference. That is why people buy 2 speed reels.
The Man