Here's my take on the a drop in drag kit for the 113h. Same idea as the hex insert, but the keyed design allows the use of thinner carbon fiber drag washers without rounding off th corners under high drag. I managed to fit 5 1mm carbon washers and 5 .75mm metal keyed washers in the drag stack, and I could fit one more of each with a little tweaking.
I cut 2 samples, one for myself, and one to send to Sal. I'm curious how well it performs in use, and I'll wait until they are tested to even consider production. I am really impressed with how well the waterjet cut these, there is no taper whatsoever in the 3/8" thick stainless the insert was cut from, and no fitting was required of any of the parts.
Just wanted to share this with everyone, and I'd love to hear your thoughts on it.
Hi,
I want to let you know that you are cutting this as same as the PENN Versa gear. When I was working on the Fathom gear set, and I contacted PENN. The PENN (Pure fishing) management person told me that it is for me to cut the gear, but I was not allowed to cut the Versa drag washers. That was what PENN's lawyer told him because they owns the patent. Therefore, I will be very careful about this one.
Good luck on this one. You should check with them first.
Thanks,
--Alan
If we buy the washers from Penn or make our own, does that get around the patent?
Quote from: RowdyW on January 09, 2015, 03:16:59 AM
If we buy the washers from Penn or make our own, does that get around the patent?
I don't think Penn with have the drag washer on this size 113H versa gear set. If you make your own, it will be fine as long as no profit is made.
Quote from: Black Pearl on January 09, 2015, 03:00:51 AM
Hi,
I want to let you know that you are cutting this as same as the PENN Versa gear. When I was working on the Fathom gear set, and I contacted PENN. The PENN (Pure fishing) management person told me that it is for me to cut the gear, but I was not allowed to cut the Versa drag washers. That was what PENN's lawyer told him because they owns the patent. Therefore, I will be very careful about this one.
Good luck on this one. You should check with them first.
Thanks,
--Alan
Thanks. Do you know the patent number? I'd like to read it. Also, you were making a replacement part that could accept original penn washers, which is far different than what I'm doing here. Your carbon washers would be interchangeable with penn parts, so I could understand the patent there.
Technically, you don't have to make a profit to be liable for patent infringement. But the likelihood of you being sued is much smaller, especially if the patent holder has little to gain from an expensive litigation.
Quote from: Three se7ens on January 09, 2015, 03:31:32 AM
Quote from: Black Pearl on January 09, 2015, 03:00:51 AM
Hi,
I want to let you know that you are cutting this as same as the PENN Versa gear. When I was working on the Fathom gear set, and I contacted PENN. The PENN (Pure fishing) management person told me that it is for me to cut the gear, but I was not allowed to cut the Versa drag washers. That was what PENN's lawyer told him because they owns the patent. Therefore, I will be very careful about this one.
Good luck on this one. You should check with them first.
Thanks,
--Alan
Thanks. Do you know the patent number? I'd like to read it.
Technically, you don't have to make a profit to be liable for patent infringement. But the likelihood of you being sued is much smaller, especially if the patent holder has little to gain from an expensive litigation.
I don't have it. If you believe that it is just a small thing for them, then you should go for it.
I just don't like to have any problem with any company out there. That was why I went to check with them first and show my respect. That is just me.
Anyway, good luck!
Alan
Wow! That looks amazing. If I were you, I wouldn't be too worried about Penn, those are not the same. If anything, Penn might copy from you, square ear tabs are better than round.
I had no idea you could do something like this, very nice. What did I do to deserve the honor of a set?... I can't wait to get my hands on them.
Sal
Beautiful job!
Best,
Fred
I just remembered that on page #3 here I had a similar idea and Doc didn't like it, but I never asked why. Maybe he was talking about soldering the parts together :-\
This one has 6 tabs instead of 12, but same idea
http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=6517.msg55599#msg55599
Lovely! Can't wait to results of Sal's tests.
Could always just make these and give them out, than no worries about any issues with the patent ;) ;D
Quote from: fIsHsTiiCkS on January 09, 2015, 04:38:08 AM
Could always just make these and give them out, than no worries about any issues with the patent ;) ;D
Lol, profit is not a requirement for patent litigation though.
To make something for your personal use there usually are no issues. Making them and distributing them are different issues that can arise.
Quote from: Three se7ens on January 09, 2015, 04:47:29 AM
Quote from: fIsHsTiiCkS on January 09, 2015, 04:38:08 AM
Could always just make these and give them out, than no worries about any issues with the patent ;) ;D
Lol, profit is not a requirement for patent litigation though.
I was just kidding ;D Great work and would love to have a set!
Well done. Really nice.
It is difficult for me to gauge size from the pics, but it may be of interest to try to minimize the insert's impact on the keyed washers maximum diameter. IE reduce the wall thickness / internal spline tooth height as much as possible, but i suppose you know that already. Really nice and clean anyway.
Quote from: Alto Mare
I just remembered that on page #3 here I had a similar idea and Doc didn't like it, but I never asked why. Maybe he was talking about soldering the parts together...
Yes, it was something I did once, installing six pins directly to the inside of the gear, by soldering them? Or did i screw them through the bottom of the gear? I forget now, but it wasn't worth the effort. Too much work. I thought that was what you meant.
Quote from: Black Pearl on January 09, 2015, 03:35:43 AM
Quote from: Three se7ens on January 09, 2015, 03:31:32 AM
Quote from: Black Pearl on January 09, 2015, 03:00:51 AM
Hi,
I want to let you know that you are cutting this as same as the PENN Versa gear. When I was working on the Fathom gear set, and I contacted PENN. The PENN (Pure fishing) management person told me that it is for me to cut the gear, but I was not allowed to cut the Versa drag washers. That was what PENN's lawyer told him because they owns the patent. Therefore, I will be very careful about this one.
Good luck on this one. You should check with them first.
Thanks,
--Alan
Thanks. Do you know the patent number? I'd like to read it.
Technically, you don't have to make a profit to be liable for patent infringement. But the likelihood of you being sued is much smaller, especially if the patent holder has little to gain from an expensive litigation.
I don't have it. If you believe that it is just a small thing for them, then you should go for it.
I just don't like to have any problem with any company out there. That was why I went to check with them first and show my respect. That is just me.
Anyway, good luck!
Alan
The patent bit was earlier discussed here
http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=6774.msg58359#msg58359
and here http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=7196.msg61394#msg61394
but I don't know why it is being discussed now, since the insert design is nothing like Penn's anyway.
.
Quote from: Robert Janssen on January 09, 2015, 08:50:25 AM
Well done. Really nice.
Quote from: Alto Mare
I just remembered that on page #3 here I had a similar idea and Doc didn't like it, but I never asked why. Maybe he was talking about soldering the parts together...
Yes, it was something I did once, installing six pins directly to the inside of the gear, by soldering them? Or did i screw them through the bottom of the gear? I forget now, but it wasn't worth the effort. Too much work. I thought that was what you meant.
Doc, I never questioned it, the reason being that when you talk, I listen ;)
I just read this thread....THIS IS VERY EXCITING!!! I hope this makes it to us.
Quote from: Robert Janssen on January 09, 2015, 08:50:25 AM
Well done. Really nice.
It is difficult for me to gauge size from the pics, but it may be of interest to try to minimize the insert's impact on the keyed washers maximum diameter. IE reduce the wall thickness / internal spline tooth height as much as possible, but i suppose you know that already. Really nice and clean anyway.
.
It's pretty small, especially considering the detail. Th wall thickness is only 0.060" and the splines are the same. There just not much room to work with on such a small reel. The larger reels will be more ideal.
I believe It will be strong enough.
That looks pretty sweet Adam! ;)
Sal hurry up and test these I won't one ;D
Quote from: fIsHsTiiCkS on January 09, 2015, 11:43:29 PM
Sal hurry up and test these I won't one ;D
Ok, if you won't want one you won't get one ;D
Want* ;)
I soooooooo want a couple of these. Only problem will be cutting the cf to fit. Well worth it though. Can't wait to see what Sal does with these!
May need to find soneone with acess to a cutter to have a bunch of CF washers cut. It would be great to offer these gear inserts as 'complete sets' with precut CF and SS washers as well. Just a thought. I may be putting the cart in front but this looks like a promisimg design to me.
I'm pretty Sure Adam will be making these as a kit like Bryan does. The washers and drags will be included.
Quote from: Tightlines666 on January 10, 2015, 01:26:10 AM
May need to find soneone with acess to a cutter to have a bunch of CF washers cut. It would be great to offer these gear inserts as 'complete sets' with precut CF and SS washers as well. Just a thought. I may be putting the cart in front but this looks like a promisimg design to me.
My plan from the beginning was to offer this as a kit . Both the carbon fiber and metal washers are specific to this kit due to the special sizes.
That is the best route to go. Esp. For the CF washers. As I can see myself fumbling to make those right.