I booked a 10 hour snapper/grouper trip out of hubbards marina in madeira beach FL. Fishing 90-120' deep
Time to figure out what I'm bringing.
I'm thinking 2 hot rodded jigmasters (ones running 50# braid the other has 40#), an everol 12/20 (probably 60 or 80# braid, gotta decide and load it), and a daiwa 900H or 910H (100# braid). Maybe I'll get that acc 270mag fixed and bring it too.
But I'm open to alternate suggestions.
They do favor mono, but I contacted them to confirm braid is allowed as long as i have at least a 30' flouro top shot.
Shot in the dark, but it would be super cool if anyone wants to join. As it stands I'm going by myself.
good luck amigo, just ask the captain what kind of gear he recommends and start from that.
maybe just one of you modd jigmaster and one 113h
on 900h and 12/0 everol, I would take just one from those two reels, go big or go home, prepare the everol on its rod and just take the 900h reel as spare in case something wrong happen to the everol reel or if you feel undergunned.
grouper fishing can be hard and might need strong rod and reel if you target for really big ones but most groupers on the 20-30# mark will be fun to catch with something as a 113h or similar reel as your everol with 80# braid (just because rock abrasion purposes even using 30' mono leader)
careful, this can be addictive
Sounds like fun, hope you have a blast. Checked out their website and they seem to think a jigmaster sized reel, 4/0 and a big spinner is all that's needed. You'll be fishing 60-100 feet so if it was me a Shimano Speedmaster IV for bottom and a Shimano Baitrunner 4500 for flat lining would be going but I'm old school.
A 4/0 sized reel seems like overkill to me but that is what most party boats near me have as their boat rods. I'm sure a lot of people will say it's better to be safe than sorry, so bring what you are confident in.
From their website Catch : Grey Snapper, Porgies, Black Seabass, Hogfish, Red Grouper, Gag Grouper, Scamp Grouper, Mangrove Snapper **Mahi, Mackerel & Kingfish**
Good luck and hope you give us a full report of the trip
So when I told my wife the final total (205 with bait) she said that's a good deal!
How many rods is too many? I got a lot of my toys to play with, but i don't wanna be inconsiderate.
Good for you! Have a good time and catch a bunch of fish, but don't rinse off your hands over the side of the boat.
:o
Alex, the Everol is a 12/20, not 12/0...big difference :) The 12/20 is maybe 3/0 size or a hair larger.
Jason, were me, for simplicity's sake; I'd take a jiggy or 12/20 for snapper baiting, a 4/0 and maybe the Accurate for jigging. The 900 is fine but gonna be heavy- a 6/0-size is plenty on grouper. I'd run 30 feet of 100-130 fluoro for rocks in any case and that will make the mates happy. I have the Everol Super 50's, but I'm not sure about drag in the 12/20. My FinNor 12/20 is a tournament reel and maxes with light drag numbers for so much metal. The 12/20 would be fun tho. \
re 4/0 as overkill: if the boat is anchored, the line capacity is nice for flatlining a kingfish or mahi where you can't chase, and there are really big gags, ,and possibly blacks, down there, and you can get picked up by 300 lb nurse shark very easily with a big grouper bait down (this happend to me). I wouldn't want to try to keep one out of the rocks with a jiggy, well maybe a CC jiggy with SS guts but still...
Good point on the anchoring, also you'll need a lot of line and a lot of lead to if they anchor. All the day cruise party boats I've been on didn't anchor but I haven't been on many that didn't go out of Palm Beach County.
On how many rods, I would say 3 maybe 4. Up to 60 anglers with 80 rod holders, Sunday is the busy day and might get crowded but I would call on that(and if they anchor). I would bring a lot of lead but I have a thing about running out of lead ;D
The what not to bring section was interesting and humorous. I got a chuckle out of the bananas but I wonder why no cellphones or smart watches.
What's a good drag number to target for keeper grouper?
The 12/20 is in between a 3/0 and a 4/0 senator. Thanks to Keith i now have 2 12/20s, the one he gave me is a 1 piece frame version, and that's the one i wanna use because it doesn't lose free spool no matter how tight the knob is. I have tested my first one with a spring scale, 24# drag before line starts slipping, and for a max, it's still rolling smooth at a steady 27#. That one has 65# multicolor braid on it. I may swap the spool into the 1 piece frame one.
I have the components to build a really solid 4/0 (steel innards and penn H2 aluminum frame bars), and steel innards and upgraded drags (including a versa option) for a 6/0 but nothing upgraded for external parts, just posts or a graphite frame. I guess I can assemble those. And the jigmaster is a Cortez 1 piece 99, with steel gears, a 5-stack, and I think a dbl dog setup. Seems legit for big snapper but probably outclassed for big grouper.
Re: the cell phones, they don't want you to drop a marker on their spots! That's the part my wife is upset about though. "So you mean i can't contact you for 10 hrs?" As if I'd have cell coverage out there anyway.
I forgot that you have to go a pretty good ways out to reach the deeper water in the Gulf, over here around 5 minutes out of the inlet and you're in 100' of water, plenty of cell service. Heck in Boca you could probably connect to some beach houses wifi while fishing ;D
Quote from: thorhammer on June 29, 2023, 11:36:27 AMAlex, the Everol is a 12/20, not 12/0...big difference :) The 12/20 is maybe 3/0 size or a hair larger.
I swear I edited my comment before posting it but seems that I didnt.
yeah I notice it wasnt a 12/0 but a 12/20, that smaller everol could work pretty good for snappers and groupers with the 24# and 27# drag.
4/0 might be overkill but it could be the ticket for a bigger grouper, after many years of using the 4/0 and trying different gear sizes and speed I opted to keep the steel 3:1 stock ratio as my favorite, it gives you great torque and enough line recovery on the 1st half of the spool (top).
Quote from: JasonGotaProblem on June 29, 2023, 01:01:57 PM.......That's the part my wife is upset about though. "So you mean i can't contact you for 10 hrs?" As if I'd have cell coverage out there anyway.
LOL that sent me back to my 1st times going fishing off-shore, the 1st times my wife was like, soooo, if I have any emergency who should I call? -- the police I answered, that didnt helped much but ooh well ;D ;D
I dont know how works there but in this part of Baja, 30 minutes south from my town there is no cell signal either on land or sea for the next 3hrs, yeah, welcome to the big Baja Desert.
Some wives of the captains have CB radio on their home not to check their husbands but as a safe tool in case the panga boat have a motor problem or any other emergency, many times our captain call his wife by the CB radio telling her that we just landed safety after a day of fishing and we are preparing everything to drive home (its a 2hrs drive to my town with no cell phone signal until 1.5hrs)
I'll be in Florida next summer Jason.
Take notes so you'll be able to show me! ;D
Looking forward to the pictures.
"Call the police" that's funny to me but I can see how your wife wouldn't think so much.
You can definitely run out of cellphone service but on the east coast of south florida 100' of water comes quick. Less than a mile out where on the west coast I'm guessing near 10 miles before you get that deep
Have a fun trip!!
I can only bring 3 rods. You would think that simplify things, but it actually complicates them.
This is your first time on a party boat , i would bring one 1 stick and reel . Than rent the other stick from the boat for 20 dollars . They will supply all the hooks and sinkers that you will loose .
You will get lots of tangle with the other guest on the boat . learn on their dime this time , than you can Gage the next trip with some prior knowledge !!
Good friends moved to NE Alabama a few months ago and invited me to go on a 10 hour out of Sarasota targeting grooper and blackfin, too bad air travel is so expensive.
Quote from: JasonGotaProblem on June 30, 2023, 03:33:23 AMI can only bring 3 rods. You would think that simplify things, but it actually complicates them.
haha, I know what you mean, its the problem for having 2-3 reels/rods on the same line rating, we struggle selecting the "best" gear for the trip.
but I think with 3 rods you are more than covered for anything, 1 light rod, one medium and well one med-heavy, thats what I normally take on my fishing trips here in Baja which is kind of similar to the Florida peninsula, but I normally carry on my tackle backpack 2 spare reels that will fit any of the light or medium rods in case my main reels suffer a problem on the boat.
Getting closer!
I'm still trying to finish up my grouper rod. I need to either get my solid frame everol spooled, or steal the spool from my frame-bar model. I haven't gotten to touch my accurate reel but I may try after the rod is finished. Im trying to have it wrapped and epoxied by tomorrow night so it has plenty of time to finish curing then i can focus on the reels.
I haven't gotten a chance to begin building a 4/0 or 6/0 senator, but my everol and hot rodded jigmasters probably aren't far off capability-wise. I think keith's 900H is gonna come along. It's definitely got some upgrades, it can lift a 25# dumbbell without drag slipping at all, but backed all the way off its still like 5# of resistance.
Any strong reason why it would be a bad idea to attempt to put an LT100 on a conventional rod? I was considering bringing it as a backup reel in case my right arm gets worn out, but my rod count is limited to 3.
Also what kind of knots are you guys using for a grouper rig? I imagine I'll be crimping the 80 and 100# leaders I'm bringing, and Alberto knots to attach to braid, right?
I have primarily egg weights. Should i plan on just putting them inline, or should I be doing dropper loops?
I'm sure the deck hands will be able to help with some of this but it's nice to be somewhat ready ahead of time.
Also we are close enough to the date to start looking at weather, and so far it's looking pretty good! Winds below 10mph leads me to hope for calm-ish seas.
get ready for DONT SLEEP at all tonight!
I cant get any sleep the night before fishing specially after a long time hiatus, but it happens also in every trip, the adrenaline of going fishing hit pretty early :fish
Have a safe and productive trip.
Trying to get myself ready.
I just need to figure out how to rig up my terminal tackle. I got 2/0 4/0 and 7/0 circle hooks.
How much lead should I be bringing?
Quote from: JasonGotaProblem on July 15, 2023, 05:05:32 PMTrying to get myself ready.
I just need to figure out how to rig up my terminal tackle. I got 2/0 4/0 and 7/0 circle hooks.
How much lead should I be bringing?
the amount of lead depends on each zone, if its mostly sandy bottoms you wont lose any but its rocky bottoms take at least 5 of each size.
on my zone I normally use 4oz, 6oz and 10oz depending on the current.
if this is your 1st time prepare some regular drooper loop rigs with two hooks on some zip bags, but take some extra spools of your leader line and ask your boat captain which is the preferred rig, size of hook and distance between hooks, lead, swivel, etc. following your captain recommendations can be the difference between catching fish or come home with lots of pictures of your reels, landscapes and selfies.
Good luck brother!
I hope you slay, the living crap out of them!
Matt
Hope you have a great trip!!
So this didn't go so well. I am pretty sure I was the only one on the boat to leave empty handed. I had 2 very experienced people on either side and I just didnt stand a chance. I did land 2 small grouper at the very end so it wasnt a total wash but I left extremely upset and wondering if I ever wanna go offshore ever again. I tried a lot of different things. I changed presentation o changed bait I tried different rods I tried different hooks I had 10 hours to experiment. I've calmed down but I left thinking about just leaving my gear on the side of the road.
Definitely not the outcome I expected. Others did very well, this doesn't reflect negatively on the crew. Maybe someone had a voodoo doll of me and put it near to but out of reach of a fish.
:0(
Sorry to hear that Jason.
Bottom fishing in 60 plus feet of water takes some getting used to. If the current is strong then knowing when you hit bottom can be tricky, it comes and goes quickly. It's easy to miss when you hit bottom and then keep letting line out and then you can't feel a bite. For me it's not about feeling hitting bottom but seeing a quick bow in the line as it's going out.
Hit bottom and then a small window to drag bottom before you have to let more line out. Drop hold drag, drop hold drag for about 5 times and then crank up.
I still remember my buddy taking bottom fishing for the first time, it was a beat down. They were hooking up like crazy and I just kept coming up with no bait.
Try staying on the bottom in 600'-700' with current. We often use 48oz leads.
I keep thinking back to the old Bruce Lee quote. "Pain is the best teacher, but nobody wants to attend his class."
It was a very educational trip. But, well, it hurt. I guess I thought all my experience feeling bites and landing fish in 3-10' of water would take me further than it did.
I think he was trying to make me feel better, but dude said something to the effect of "no such thing as beginners luck offshore." I guess he was right.
Do not let it get you down. On the next trip you will have a bit more knowledge.
Observe what others are doing, especially the ones catching, and try to do the same.
Did you try fishing iron? A 100gr jig should reach bottom in 60' unless the current is realy strong, then a 150g should work.
We've all been there...
So i will use this time to talk about a MacGyver solution I came up with. The night before the trip My AC drain line got clogged, upstream of the cleanout port. So my choices were limited. I didn't wanna leave my wife and kid without AC for the day, didn't wanna get hosed on a 24h emergency repair tech, didnt want my wife to be taken advantage of price wise because I was gone with no phone. I needed a temporary fix. Not pretty but I was proud of my idea.
So i pulled the float switch tilted the pipe down and used a dustpan to channel the water into the bucket (which needs to be dumped twice a day it seems)
(Edit: I'm gonna pull the cleanout tee and shop vac it tonight)
Quote from: JasonGotaProblem on July 17, 2023, 02:16:56 PMI keep thinking back to the old Bruce Lee quote. "Pain is the best teacher, but nobody wants to attend his class."
It was a very educational trip. But, well, it hurt. I guess I thought all my experience feeling bites and landing fish in 3-10' of water would take me further than it did.
I think he was trying to make me feel better, but dude said something to the effect of "no such thing as beginners luck offshore." I guess he was right.
First trip on a party boat among experienced fishermen is bound to be a humbling experience. Bear in mind that many of those anglers have been doing it for years. No way can you be expected to compete. Pretty sure the only person who was surprised you didn't do better is you! Don't be discouraged. Keep at it!
Quote from: JasonGotaProblem on July 17, 2023, 01:42:32 AMSo this didn't go so well. I am pretty sure I was the only one on the boat to leave empty handed. I had 2 very experienced people on either side and I just didnt stand a chance. I did land 2 small grouper at the very end so it wasnt a total wash but I left extremely upset and wondering if I ever wanna go offshore ever again. I tried a lot of different things. I changed presentation o changed bait I tried different rods I tried different hooks I had 10 hours to experiment. I've calmed down but I left thinking about just leaving my gear on the side of the road.
Definitely not the outcome I expected. Others did very well, this doesn't reflect negatively on the crew. Maybe someone had a voodoo doll of me and put it near to but out of reach of a fish.
I think the real question is what did the experienced guys do that you didn't. .... and did you pay attention or learn anything from them?
When I first got into slow jigging I had to get most of my info from Japan and Florida (where it first took off here in the USA) and what I did pick up is that you really have to get dialed in on techniques to be successful.
Don't get discouraged, you're in an area that has tons to offer in saltwater fishing, there just is a learning curve.
We have a member named Benny Ortiz, he's also on the BD forum which is where I know him from. He's the undisputed king of jigging in Florida and has a wealth of knowledge. He works for Shimano and writes about fishing, worth a lookup. .... also reading up on Florida fishing forums might help too.
Hope you turn it around on your next attempt.
Jason, welcome to the empty hands club.
I did a 2.5 day trip out of San Diego for tuna a few years back and came home with the middle of a donut.
I was one of three guys that didn't catch A THING. I had a hard time catching bait in the well...
Month and a half later I caught my personal best Bluefin on my annual 4 day trip along with a slew of others.
Paying your dews, what comes around goes around, that's why they call it fishing and not catching, pick your saying, remember what you learned and get'em next time.
Quote from: JasonGotaProblem on July 17, 2023, 01:42:32 AMSo this didn't go so well. I am pretty sure I was the only one on the boat to leave empty handed. I had 2 very experienced people on either side and I just didnt stand a chance. I did land 2 small grouper at the very end so it wasnt a total wash but I left extremely upset and wondering if I ever wanna go offshore ever again. I tried a lot of different things. I changed presentation o changed bait I tried different rods I tried different hooks I had 10 hours to experiment. I've calmed down but I left thinking about just leaving my gear on the side of the road.
Definitely not the outcome I expected. Others did very well, this doesn't reflect negatively on the crew. Maybe someone had a voodoo doll of me and put it near to but out of reach of a fish.
" OUCH" You brought your own Voodoo dolls with you . I believe you over analysed everything you were doing and not relaxed to simply fish .
A lot of good question were asked already , especially what were your neighbors doing . This is a test of memory call back !!!
Oh i got some great advice. The fella to my left who was absolutely slaying it didn't speak much English, but i know some Spanish, and I got some great advice. His primary advice was never leave your bait still. When it lands somewhere, theres either a fish there or there isn't. If you don't get a bite in 30 seconds reel in a bit and drop it somewhere else. Move it left move it right just don't leave it still. And if you dont get a bite in 5 minutes check your bait. Nothing in 10 minutes get a fresh bait.
I Also realized after the fact that there was a fair portion of the time where I thought my bait was on the bottom when I now realize no it wasn't.
If you have trouble keeping in contact with the bottom try a heaver weight. We have had days you could not maintain bottom in 700' with 64 ounce weights but that is much deeper than you were fishing.
We have to keep dropping constantly to keep close to the bottom with any current/drift when fishing 400'-700' deep and have to crank back up and reset when the line angle gets to around 45°.
Drop to bottom and crank in a few feet, in 2 or so minutes depending on the current/drift drop to the bottom and crank a few feet and repete as needed, constantly keeping track of the bottom.
I hope to hear you did better the next trip.
hey Jason, compadre WELCOME to DA'CLUB ! :P
Quote from: JasonGotaProblem on July 17, 2023, 01:42:32 AM......but I left extremely upset and wondering if I ever wanna go offshore ever again....
I've calmed down but I left thinking about just leaving my gear on the side of the road.
no, no .. NO !
IMO You're making sound fishing as a Job to do, as a job on where the GOAL is to catch fish to feel proud and to feel like a winner, nope, thats not fishing unless you're a professional Bass pro fisherman but 99% of alantani guys arent and we all had been skunked many times and for many those days are what are pushing us to look for the next time.
In me personal experience, when I started to fish off-shore, it was a long learning curve and expensive one, I was a happy shore fisherman with all my fishing gear from wallyworld, Never felt like expending much money to catch some fish of 1#-3#, then started to fish off-shore (my off-shore in Sea of Cortez is different than off-shore on the Pacific ocean) and I was catching nothing and realized my Gear wasnt good for the task, that brought me to alantani and off-course to ask lots of questions to my local captains which are just waiting to SHare they "secrets" to anyone and THEY work!
next time, ask the person on your side what Bait if he using and what kind of knot and how much weight, etc you will find persons that DONT what to share any info but you also will find persons that will tell you everything and also teach you know to duplicate their terminal rigs.
anyway, I dont have much time fishing offshore as many of the guys here, maybe 13 years and I can say Im still learing few tricks, 4 years ago we were trolling around the Islands and I was the only one catching Nothing, I mean nothing, my friends at the beginning were making fun of me and it was all fun and joy on me but I never lost control or felt really bad about it, but my "bad luck" continued for many hours and my friends even started to worry about my luck for real LOL, I was using the same lure a Rapala deep diver 30ft same color as my friends and still not a bite and they were catching left and right, one of them told me, Alex give me your rod and take mine, I cant believe you havent caught anything in hours, well 3 minutes later I got a fish on the line and they started screaming and applauding LOL (those are real friends) I got my fish and I said now let me try with my own gear and after some minutes I started to catch fish as the rest of the guys, so, what it was the problem with me or my gear? we never knew! they told me that they COULD See that I had my own raining black cloud over me haha of course not, thats not possible or maybe!
but thats fishing my amigo, try to enjoy the whole experience, the trip, the company even your gear, catching fish is just the cherry on the cake.
Jason,
Next time I get the itch to do some gulf side party boat fishing, I'll give you a call and we'll find one. I love going out but just like you did, I have hard days on the water while everyone else is catching. It happens from time to time.
This fall I'm headed to Vero/Hillsborough area but I have not made spring or summer plans yet. Starting college again has kind of slowed me up on that-I don't know how much time I'll have.
I'll try to bring a few of these aluminum beachmasters if I ever get one finished up!
Quote from: Wolfram M on July 28, 2023, 04:00:29 AMJason,
Next time I get the itch to do some gulf side party boat fishing, I'll give you a call and we'll find one. I love going out but just like you did, I have hard days on the water while everyone else is catching. It happens from time to time.
This fall I'm headed to Vero/Hillsborough area but I have not made spring or summer plans yet. Starting college again has kind of slowed me up on that-I don't know how much time I'll have.
I'll try to bring a few of these aluminum beachmasters if I ever get one finished up!
I'm game! Hillsborough is tampa. So that's pretty close. I may try to book an east coast trip since red snapper don't go out of season in the Atlantic. But the water is rougher.
I am hoping to hit hillsborough, but that'll depend on how the rest of the family will let me drive-I put the trip together and am bringing my parents and my grandparents, but I am the only one who travels to fish really. They are all planning to fly down, I'm the one driving the van down so we have a car to drive that week.
I'll actually be staying in Vero but if they are all set on being on the beach all day (it's a walk-out-to-the-water room) then I'm all about meeting up with you and doing some fishing, and you'd be welcome to come across to the atlantic side and we'll hunt some fish there too.
Right now I'm still researching fishing spots and day charters, heck even looking at the Yankee Capt's website the prices for south florida charters are MUCH more reasonable than panhandle charters have been the last few years!
Quote from: JasonGotaProblem on July 17, 2023, 01:42:32 AMSo this didn't go so well. I am pretty sure I was the only one on the boat to leave empty handed. I had 2 very experienced people on either side and I just didnt stand a chance. I did land 2 small grouper at the very end so it wasnt a total wash but I left extremely upset and wondering if I ever wanna go offshore ever again. I tried a lot of different things. I changed presentation o changed bait I tried different rods I tried different hooks I had 10 hours to experiment. I've calmed down but I left thinking about just leaving my gear on the side of the road.
Definitely not the outcome I expected. Others did very well, this doesn't reflect negatively on the crew. Maybe someone had a voodoo doll of me and put it near to but out of reach of a fish.
Sounds like you overthought it. What were the guys on either side doing that you weren't? You should pay attention to the rigging and way they bait up if they're getting fish and you aren't.
Yeah it was a major learning experience. In fact by the end I kinda had the basics of it figured out. In fact i caught 2 red grouper in the last 5 minutes of fishing before the captain called it for the day. We'll see on the next one whether I learned anything. It's cheaper on the east coast so I may try that next.
Jason, at least you caught your limit of red grouper. My first 6 trips out in the GOM, same depths you fished, netted nothing. My buddies were hauling them in. My guess is many times the smaller snapper, grunts, lizard fish, etc got your bait before, or as soon as, it hit bottom. You rarely even feel them steal your bait. If I'm over fish, and I don't have a bite in 1 minute, I check my bait. Most times it's gone. A couple more trips and you'll be catching them.