I decided to do a pictorial of my Latest rod wrapping on the new power wrapper I just purchased, although I don't feel qualified as a seasoned rod builder. Rather I'm showing what I'm doing. I tried putting captions in the photos with paint BUT! So I tell what is in the pictures instead.
1-Pre fitting the cork grips and shaping them
2- Ive Epoxied the fist butt grip in the split grip configuration and prepared the shims for the reel seat.
Joe
I admire you for attempting that, Joe --
And others here on the board who know how to do this skillful work (Jon, Dwight, Chad, and many others.
Maybe I will learn how someday -- sure have enough rods needing repairing.
Do have a lot of guides, grips, and components, though.
And would like to make some new ones -- but I would be starting from near zero, experience-wise.
Got to start somewhere.
Best,
Fred
Fred if I can do it anyone can, but I'm competing with John, Dwight or Chad by any means of the imagination.
Joe
Good on you Joe, I can't wait to see more pics and the finished product. I want to make my own rods as well & the wife is cool with me buying the equipment, but she said I have to clean out my office first :o That's like cleaning Alan's garage ;D Maybe someday.
BT
Thanks for sharing Joe, it looks like you're off to a great start.
An observation if I may:
The protective masking tape around the leading edge of your grip will need to be removed very slowly, otherwise it can pull out chunks of the cork filler.
You may also want to try wicking off the excess epoxy with a flexible spatula, once with the seat about half-way down, and again just before it meets the grip.
Then go ahead and spiral-push the seat the rest of the way into place.
After a time, and with just the right amount of epoxy applied (and wicked off), you may find you no longer have need for the tape..:)
Chad
Chad; As always your advice is well taken and appreciated and yes I have to practice applying the rite amount of epoxy so as not to make a mess. The masking tape does prevent overrun and I am careful not to rip the tape off of the cork. I also use denatured alcohol to cleanup. I'm going to attempt doing the Dragon scale wrap on the area between the split grip, that will be a challenge for me.
Joe
Quote from: Reel 224 on March 11, 2016, 10:52:14 PM
Fred if I can do it anyone can, but I'm competing with John, Dwight or Chad by any means of the imagination.
Joe
Joe
You are actually competing with yourself to find your style. Find your style and love it and build rods for people that like your style. I sell far more rods than I ever dreamed of doing because of my clean lines and built for battle style that a lot of people like.
Let your personality show in what you create. Get your name decals done at Decal Connection and look more professional. They do a great job.
Dwight
Dwight
Dwight; Thank you, You are one of the people that has inspired me to continue my rod building. This is such a well rounded site that a person can get encouragement and help from such a large group of great people.
Joe
Thanks for this report Joe and thanks to all who have of chimed in here. It has inspired me.
At the Fred Hall Show I saw groups of young kids walking around with rod blanks in their hands and with the happiest expressions on the their faces you could imagine. I want to start buying blanks.
Keep us posted Joe!
Steve
Do it, buy one! My first build was a Limaglass 2007 (7') parabolic 15 lb. test rod. That was around 1962. Most of the rods in the shed are hand wrapped. The advantages are many but the most important for me is obtaining a better feel for what is good, and what will balance better.
But for a down side..... Buying blanks and components is not less than having rods build by someone who can buy wholesale, put his labor in a rod and sell it to you, but you will learn what the others have said. If you have rod custom made building a few will help with communication to a builder. I hope you guys that wrap for a living read this.
What are your shims made of for the reel seat??
I use cotton string in a bed of 60 minute epoxy, the epoxy absorbs into the string making a unified epoxy bond with the rod and reel seat.
Looks good with the cork. You can also use a thin coat of epoxy on the whole grip with filler and sand off the epoxy with 320 sandpaper if the holes are big until you get down to cork.
With the winds this winter, I have built 5 this winter so far....
We are a crazy bunch....
Quote from: jigmaster501 on March 14, 2016, 01:31:17 AM
What are your shims made of for the reel seat??
I use cotton string in a bed of 60 minute epoxy, the epoxy absorbs into the string making a unified epoxy bond with the rod and reel seat.
Looks good with the cork. You can also use a thin coat of epoxy on the whole grip with filler and sand off the epoxy with 320 sandpaper if the holes are big until you get down to cork.
With the winds this winter, I have built 5 this winter so far....
We are a crazy bunch....
I used masking tape for shims and 15min. Epoxy. This rod is my first of the season. I have built a few others and rebuilt several rod, but I'm still new at this and learning as I go along.
Joe
Hi All,
For spacers under reel seats, you might like to try using dry wall jointing tape, as the woven construction allows the epoxy resin to get further down into the matrix, and bond direct to the blank in more places. We have seen reel seats come loose under certain high temperature situations, where the adhesive on the masking tape 'lets go' in the heat.
Try not to go more than a maximum of 1mm of tape, and above that look to use carbon or glass tube shims to make up the space - a much more robust and solid job. Old hollow glass rod blanks make a great source of spacers of different sizes. Especially old broken rods.
Just a thought.
Cheers
Jeri
Joe, I also build up a masking tape arbor for the reel seat when I build a rod. The idea of string with epoxy sounds interesting, but I like the saying, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". Masking tape has worked for decades. Some reel seats come with arbors, but they can't be used if the blank diameter is too close to the inner reel seat diameter.... masking tape is pretty standard. The epoxy does all the work, anyway, the masking tape just gives the epoxy a foundation to anchor to.
Sid
Quote from: Jeri on March 14, 2016, 03:28:20 PM
Try not to go more than a maximum of 1mm of tape, and above that look to use carbon or glass tube shims to make up the space - a much more robust and solid job. Old hollow glass rod blanks make a great source of spacers of different sizes. Especially old broken rods.
Just a thought.
Cheers
Jeri
If done correctly the epoxy fills all the void between the reel seat and the blank and incorporates the masking tape into the bond. In my mind the epoxy between the masking tape is what anchors the reel seat in place, the masking tape just holds everything in place until the epoxy can set up. I like the idea of drywall tape, because it is a mesh, but I don't know if the difference would be noticeable. I've seen a few reel seats loosen up, but they weren't glued properly to begin with.
Sid
Not that ignoring the advice Jeri, but I used the masking the way Sid mentioned only I was introduced to that method and also was told to leave ample space between the raps for the Epoxy to adhere to the rod. That being said I will certainly try the dry wall tape on my next build.
Joe
Joe
If you used narrow tape then the space is greater for a better epoxy bond also. I normally use three tape arbors and slop the epoxy to it heavy and keep foil under it as I slide the seat on. Be careful with that fast set stuff. Absolutely no room for error. I don't use it and sometimes I have multiple handles to epoxy and I can take my sweet time to get everything just perfect and no rush. Rushing creates errors.
Dwight
Dwight: ;D I don't know how to rush. I have to get narrow masking tap anyway for setting up guides, Ive run out. I have the slow setting epoxy also.
Joe
In extreme hot and cold weather the glue will weaken on the masking tape and I have seen numerous reel seats come off with masking tape bushings.
The drywall mesh tape will work but like string, you have to lay it in a bed of epoxy and keep filling as you are wrapping.
I lay the cotton string (using different thickness as needed) on dry and slide the reel seat on with it being snug.
I slide off the reel seat, scuff the blank, acetone the scuffed area and when dry apply epoxy on the section and start rolling on the string laying on the epoxy heavy as I wrap so it is all wet. When I get to the end of the string, I apply more epoxy on top then apply a band of epoxy UP the blank and roll the loose reel seat on it to fully coat the inner surface. Then I slide and spin it down the direction I wrapped the string until it is in place. It gets messy so I wrap masking tape over the whole reel seat, grips, etc, until in place and then remove the tape and clean any excess with acetone.
For a blank that you don't need much of a bushing, I will use PC7 Paste and wrap a spiral of cotton string until snug and they lay that in a bed of the PC7. Both work well.
This is the easy part actually. The hardest part is guide spacing and getting it just right with the loading of the rod.
Lets not forget the flexcoat where we can ruin everything after we spent hours getting everything just right.....lol
Actually this year I started using a heat gun with my friend and it works wonders with bubbles. I blow the gun up and away but roll the rod down and towards me so the bubble run up and out...
We are a nutty bunch, that is for sure...
Hello,
When I first started building rods 20 years ago, it seemed the arbors of choice were either masking tape or nylon/cotton cord. Installed properly, they did the job. The very few failures I've seen were caused by either water intrusion, or a problem with the adhesive bond breaking loose due to poor prep work or a lack of epoxy on mating surfaces. If using masking tape for arbors, it was important to completely encapsulate the tape with epoxy and "fill in the voids" as Sid observed. It helped to also dry-fit the seat a few times, compressing the tape and adding a band or two if necessary, such that the final space between tape and seat is kept at a minimum. I've known a few builders who would go even further and cut channels or flutes into the tape for what they felt was extra adhesion.
That being said, these days I only use polyurethane arbors or drywall tape depending on application. The polyurethane arbors are a pleasure to work with as they take only a few minutes to ream and install. Also MUCH lighter than masking tape. For reaming tasks you can use either the special flex-coat pilot bit, or make your own from a spade-point bit and a piece of 1/4" aluminum tubing. Another method as shown below, is to cut the arbor into quarters and ream each piece separately:
(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c100/unchained_colors/Mobile%20Uploads/20150409_200249.jpg) (http://s25.photobucket.com/user/unchained_colors/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150409_200249.jpg.html)
Drywall tape arbors are a bit more work as jigmaster501 described, but they are also very strong. Only caveat is that I've seen a few rods done by other builders, on which the reel seat broke loose due to the tape's tendency to compress during installation--especially true when the arbor is thicker than usual, compounded with not enough epoxy. I imagine if you kept the thickness below 1mm as Jeri suggests you will be fine. I do things a bit differently in that all my drywall arbors are first wrapped to size, filled with epoxy--and then once cured--are turned down if needed to fit the reel seat. You could say the end result is very much like using an arbor made of solid polyurethane. The following photo was for a 316 SS butt-cap, hence the reason only two arbors are used:
(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c100/unchained_colors/Mobile%20Uploads/20150617_132716_12140.jpg) (http://s25.photobucket.com/user/unchained_colors/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150617_132716_12140.jpg.html)
As far as prep work, I was taught to follow the steps of Clean, De-gloss, and Glue--in that order. Plain old 91% Isopropyl does a good job of removing any oils or residue on the blank before glue-up, as does Dawn dishwashing detergent. For de-glossing I use either the grey or blue Scotchbrite pad, or fine sandpaper (400 grit and higher) depending on what is being glued; Anything rougher is for material removal and will only end up gouging the surfaces to be glued, rather than de-glossing. Here is a tutorial that better describes the process, note Ralph's use of the term "water break free" and its application in rodbuilding:
http://www.rodbuilding.org/library/waterfree.html
Chad
Very nice Chad I copied that to my documents file for further reference. Here is what Ive done so far with the Dragon Scale.
Joe
Finished my first attempt at Dragon Scales. It wasn't perfect but for the first attempt I think it was darn good.
Joe
Congrats on your first dragon-scale Joe! Layout, under-wrap, and over-wrap all appear to have been carefully done. Of course, after completion you see a few things you want to improve on the next time around--but the important part here is that you've shown you understand the concept and how to apply it.
P.S.
You had me stumped as to how you managed to produce a variegated-colored wrap with only black, gold, and silver...Then I realized the "silver" was actually the glare of true variegated thread..;) That color is quite hard to photograph, I know the photos here didn't do your wrap justice.
Chad
Quote from: cbar45 on March 15, 2016, 08:38:40 PM
Congrats on your first dragon-scale Joe! Layout, under-wrap, and over-wrap all appear to have been carefully done. Of course, after completion you see a few things you want to improve on the next time around--but the important part here is that you've shown you understand the concept and how to apply it.
P.S.
You had me stumped as to how you managed to produce a variegated-colored wrap with only black, gold, and silver...Then I realized the "silver" was actually the glare of true variegated thread..;) That color is quite hard to photograph, I know the photos here didn't do your wrap justice.
Chad
Thank you Chad; Should I seal the wrap with Diamond ll before I do the border wrap?
Joe
Quote from: Reel 224 on March 15, 2016, 08:52:11 PM
Thank you Chad; Should I seal the wrap with Diamond ll before I do the border wrap?
Joe
If you are referring to an "end cap" trim wrap at opposing ends, you have the choice of either doing it directly over the dragon-scale, or sealing the dragon-scale first as you mention.
Doing the wrap directly over the dragon-scale works fine if it is relatively simple, (thick bands/solid color), and of thicker thread than the dragon-scale. You also want to wrap the end-cap in the opposite direction of which you did the dragon scale--keeps the thread from digging into the layer below.
Applying a coat of finish to the dragon-scale prior to wrapping over it works best if you will be doing a wrap that is intricate--thin trim bands, inlays, fades, etc. Having finish over the dragon-scale makes it much easier to pack and adjust such a trim wrap. I prefer to first apply a very thin coat of finish such that you can still see the ridges in the thread. Thin coats make it easy for any bubbles to release, and working with metallic means lots of bubbles.;) Once cured, a second thin coat is applied--allowed to harden sufficiently--and then the end-caps, or borders as you call it, are wrapped.
Chad
Very nice 8)
Marc..
Quote from: cbar45 on March 15, 2016, 09:24:19 PM
Quote from: Reel 224 on March 15, 2016, 08:52:11 PM
Thank you Chad; Should I seal the wrap with Diamond ll before I do the border wrap?
Joe
If you are referring to an "end cap" trim wrap at opposing ends, you have the choice of either doing it directly over the dragon-scale, or sealing the dragon-scale first as you mention.
Doing the wrap directly over the dragon-scale works fine if it is relatively simple, (thick bands/solid color), and of thicker thread than the dragon-scale. You also want to wrap the end-cap in the opposite direction of which you did the dragon scale--keeps the thread from digging into the layer below.
Applying a coat of finish to the dragon-scale prior to wrapping over it works best if you will be doing a wrap that is intricate--thin trim bands, inlays, fades, etc. Having finish over the dragon-scale makes it much easier to pack and adjust such a trim wrap. I prefer to first apply a very thin coat of finish such that you can still see the ridges in the thread. Thin coats make it easy for any bubbles to release, and working with metallic means lots of bubbles.;) Once cured, a second thin coat is applied--allowed to harden sufficiently--and then the end-caps, or borders as you call it, are wrapped.
Chad
Chad: That answered my question excitingly. While I was doing the wrap over the E-thread I found it impossible to wrap under power with the "A" thread, I had to turn the chuck by hand. For the border I'm using "D" thread Solid color W/trim bands. Thank you for all the tips.
Joe
Nice work Joe! The dragon scales look great to me. Chad thanks for the informative responses. I have been struggling a bit with trying to decide on the types of decrative and end cap trim wraps to stick to when building fully rollered, 80 and 130 class e-glass rods. What I am gleaming from online resources in general is that the final strength of the rod is of paramount importance, and it seems most guys specializing in the heavier rod classes recommend using all D size threads, or maybe A decorative and under wraps, with D sized over wraps. Also, if possible stick to dark NCP and metallic threads and don't apply any undercoat of finish (not even colorpreserver). The idea is that applying the first coat of heavy build to all thread work at once, will form a more cohesive/stronger single bond between all threads, guides, and the blank. This seems reasonable, and would certainly save on time, but on the other hand if closed butt wraps, tiger wraps, fades, single thread inlays, or A size thread is used on bottom wraps it seems like a base coat of light build and/or colorpreserver would be in order (and pretty much required when using translucent thread over a dark blank). Also, a thin coat seems like it would help with bubble release especially with metalics. Shouldn't more layers/coats of epoxy make the rod stronger? Guess I am a bit confused as to how best to proceed. I had intended to wrap everything in D size with double underguide wraps, treat with color preserver, and double overwrap the guides and apply 2 coats, of heavy build epoxy when all wrapping is done. If I decide to use tiger wraps, should I finish all of my base wraps, treat with color preserver, then a single coat of low build epoxy, before mounting guides, finishing overwraps, and then finally 1 to 2 coats of heavy build.
Sorry to thread jack Joe. Keep up the good work. Nice to know I am not the only one just learning to play this custom rod building game.
John
Quote from: Tightlines666 on March 15, 2016, 11:26:17 PM
Nice work Joe! The dragon scales look great to me. Chad thanks for the informative responses. I have been struggling a bit with trying to decide on the types of decrative and end cap trim wraps to stick to when building fully rollered, 80 and 130 class e-glass rods. What I am gleaming from online resources in general is that the final strength of the rod is of paramount importance, and it seems most guys specializing in the heavier rod classes recommend using all D size threads, or maybe A decorative and under wraps, with D sized over wraps. Also, if possible stick to dark NCP and metallic threads and don't apply any undercoat of finish (not even colorpreserver). The idea is that applying the first coat of heavy build to all thread work at once, will form a more cohesive/stronger single bond between all threads, guides, and the blank. This seems reasonable, and would certainly save on time, but on the other hand if closed butt wraps, tiger wraps, fades, single thread inlays, or A size thread is used on bottom wraps it seems like a base coat of light build and/or colorpreserver would be in order (and pretty much required when using translucent thread over a dark blank). Also, a thin coat seems like it would help with bubble release especially with metalics. Shouldn't more layers/coats of epoxy make the rod stronger? Guess I am a bit confused as to how best to proceed. I had intended to wrap everything in D size with double underguide wraps, treat with color preserver, and double overwrap the guides and apply 2 coats, of heavy build epoxy when all wrapping is done. If I decide to use tiger wraps, should I finish all of my base wraps, treat with color preserver, then a single coat of low build epoxy, before mounting guides, finishing overwraps, and then finally 1 to 2 coats of heavy build.
Sorry to thread jack Joe. Keep up the good work. Nice to know I am not the only one just learning to play this custom rod building game.
John
John: I certainly understand and don't mind at all.
Joe
Quote from: Tightlines666 on March 15, 2016, 11:26:17 PM
Nice work Joe! The dragon scales look great to me. Chad thanks for the informative responses. I have been struggling a bit with trying to decide on the types of decrative and end cap trim wraps to stick to when building fully rollered, 80 and 130 class e-glass rods. What I am gleaming from online resources in general is that the final strength of the rod is of paramount importance, and it seems most guys specializing in the heavier rod classes recommend using all D size threads, or maybe A decorative and under wraps, with D sized over wraps. Also, if possible stick to dark NCP and metallic threads and don't apply any undercoat of finish (not even colorpreserver). The idea is that applying the first coat of heavy build to all thread work at once, will form a more cohesive/stronger single bond between all threads, guides, and the blank. This seems reasonable, and would certainly save on time, but on the other hand if closed butt wraps, tiger wraps, fades, single thread inlays, or A size thread is used on bottom wraps it seems like a base coat of light build and/or colorpreserver would be in order (and pretty much required when using translucent thread over a dark blank). Also, a thin coat seems like it would help with bubble release especially with metalics. Shouldn't more layers/coats of epoxy make the rod stronger? Guess I am a bit confused as to how best to proceed. I had intended to wrap everything in D size with double underguide wraps, treat with color preserver, and double overwrap the guides and apply 2 coats, of heavy build epoxy when all wrapping is done. If I decide to use tiger wraps, should I finish all of my base wraps, treat with color preserver, then a single coat of low build epoxy, before mounting guides, finishing overwraps, and then finally 1 to 2 coats of heavy build.
Sorry to thread jack Joe. Keep up the good work. Nice to know I am not the only one just learning to play this custom rod building game.
John
Hi John,
Decorative wraps look best done with size "A", but for someone just starting out size "D" is fine. For the guides, a single under-wrap of "A" (or "D"), and a double over-wrap of size "D" works great. There is no need to do a double under-wrap--it only adds unnecessary weight and height. It is, however, possible to do a double over-wrap of "A", which gives a very clean look. Strength-wise, the average guide will be damaged before size "A" thread fails, i.e. its frame will bend and the epoxy will crack before the wrap gives way. In fact, size "A" thread exerts more force on the guide foot than "D", due to its higher turns-per-inch ratio. The reason thicker size "D" thread is preferred for over-wraps is not because of its breaking strength, but rather because size "D" is more abrasion-resistant than "A". This hearkens back to the days when rod finish was quite thin (varnish), and a triple wrap of "D" thread increased the durability--especially on rail-rods or long-range rods that saw very heavy use. With today's thicker epoxy finishes, a double over-wrap is all that is needed. You may wish to do a few test wraps with different threads and see what is comfortable for you. My habit is to use "D" on the over-wraps for the types of rods you mentioned, I also find "D" to be easier to wrap on guides where the foot has more of an angular shape--even when prepped. Am-Tack's Virtus Heavy is a good example of this.
Regarding Epoxy Finish:
Thicker coats do not make the wrap stronger, although they do offer a bit more abrasion resistance. Rather, the thread over the guide foot is where most of the holding strength comes from. It is important to remember that epoxy finish is foremost a coating that protects; not an adhesive that bonds things together, (though it has some adhesion qualities). Thus it should not matter strength-wise if the entire wrap is finished in a single thick coat--or two thin coats for the under-wrap--allowed to cure--then the guides wrapped followed by 2-3 more coats of finish over their feet. I challenge any builder who thinks otherwise to pour 12 coats of finish into their epoxy cup, at the rate of one coat a month, and at the end of the year pop out the mold and proceed to somehow sheer or separate the coats from one another. If you think about it, most rod blanks have a finish of some sort applied on them at the factory, yet the epoxy finish used on our wraps still adheres to the blank quite well. So it is reasonable to expect it to adhere to successive coats just as well--The key is to make sure the surface is clean and free of contaminants before, during, and after applying epoxy. I'm not suggesting you wipe down your wraps with alcohol in between coats, (that can exacerbate things and should never be done unless absolutely necessary), but taking steps to keep your hands and work area clean while you wrap and apply finish goes a long way. You may also want to carefully examine your razors, scissors, and packing tools--these sometimes come with a drop of oil on them from the factory that can wreak havoc if it gets on your wraps.
As far as additional coats, epoxy is similar to paint in that it has a time window during which a successive coat cures together with the coat that was previously laid. This is usually within the first 48 hours of the initial coat, although some finishes can take more (or less) time. I'm not saying additional coats must always be applied within this time frame (they don't), but in my mind if you are looking for the absolute optimal time to re-coat, then that would be it--so long as the first coat has hardened sufficiently such that your brush won't stick. As mentioned before, coating the under-wrap prior to the over-wrap makes for an easier time if you will be doing intricate work on the over-wrap. I also like the appearance it gives versus a single thick coat over both, although the latter is certainly fine to do. The thin coat I mentioned for Joe's metallic dragon-scale is in reference to the initial first coat that makes trapped air bubbles within the metallic easier to release; After that he can build up the wrap with one (or more) successive coats that are a bit thicker than the initial coat.
Regarding Color-Preserver:
I'm sure in your research you've run across a few builders who have very strong-held opinions on the issue. If you wish to use color-preserver, my advice would be to observe and listen to the builders who use it successfully, rather than the ones who seem to only list their experience with (what they perceive as) its pitfalls. Personally, I've only had one or two issues with CP, both of which were very likely my fault, (too thin of a flood coat combined with loose packing). CP is a tool--that when used properly--does as its name describes. Are there instances where it is better NOT to use CP?--Yes. Can you use CP on under-wraps for an 80lb rod?--Yes. I find that each problem (or success) when using CP needs to be taken on an individual-case basis, as there is just too much variables going on from builder-to-builder. My own process applying CP is nothing special, simply an initial flood coat followed by two more wet coats--6-8 hours between coats, 24 hours between the last coast and the first application of epoxy. I use CP on almost all decorative wraps, but do not use it on guide wraps for rods of 80lb class and up, because for me aesthetics on these rods takes a backseat to ultimate strength--however slight that gain might be. In contrast, there are builders who will not hesitate to use CP on the guide wraps for such a rod, and they do so quite successfully I might add. They are confident in their work, and feel the slight difference in epoxy-bond strength does not come into play during normal use--an opinion I respect.
However, you do not need to limit yourself to CP when it comes to keeping accurate thread colors. Perhaps you might try using thread that is a shade or two lighter than what you want, such that it darkens with epoxy to your desired color. Another method is to use your thread of choice, but paint the blank white in the area where the guide wrap will be. Finally, you can experiment with a base wrap of metallic silver (or other light metallic color). Regular thread wrapped over such a base, and without the use of color preserver, tends to take on a candy-apple look that can be quite beautiful.
Chad
I made one Rod and a Gaff and decided it wasn't for me. Like most things it's way more difficult than experts make it look.
You appear to have what it takes Joe, more ambitious and a damn fine job.
Mark
Quote from: anglingarchitect on March 17, 2016, 03:34:30 AM
I made one Rod and a Gaff and decided it wasn't for me. Like most things it's way more difficult than experts make it look.
You appear to have what it takes Joe, more ambitious and a damn fine job.
Mark
Mark: I get frustrated at times myself but it's usually when I'm tired and push myself. Like tonight! ::) I had to cut an entire wrap off and Ill redo it tomorrow, when I'm alert ;D
Joe
Chad,
Wow.. thanks for that post! That is exactly the information I was after. It gets a bit confusing learning from so many different people that have different styles, beliefs, and build types focuses. I have tried to remember the key bits that are constant throughout. Following a recipe is one thing, but learning how the ingredients work together, and the logic behind them, can give you the road map to approach any number of build types. Guess I need to get some 'hands on' experience and develop the requisite skills. This is one of those 'crafts, that requires a mix of logic, precision, and creativity. I'm looking forward to the learning process.
John
I like your analogy of following a recipe, versus throwing a dish together based on knowledge of the individual ingredients.
Practicing a new technique on a scrap blank is a great way of getting to know your "ingredients"; Mistakes made on scrap blanks are less daunting--which bolsters creativity.
Noticed I didn't answer your question about color preserver on tiger-wraps. My preference leans toward the no-CP look since a lot of the Tiger's I do have some sort of metallic in the base wrap--using CP would dull that shine. Over time you will develop a "feel" as to what color combinations might look good without CP. This is something I still struggle with, as the corner filled with tiger-wrapped broken blanks and pool cues testifies..;)
Chad
John: The most important thing fore me was practice and you tube and then Chad suggesting those books to me. You made reference to recipe, I would add to that, that you have to make that your own by finding different variations of that recipe to suet your taste. I'm just in the beginning stages of rod building like you, but I know I want to find my own style and create something different, as well as reel work! ;D ;D
Joe
Here are two pictures of the border Ive done so for, there is one coat of finish.
Joe
Joe, that looks great! Please tell me what books you and Chad are talking about. It would be an immense help.
RiverAngler, Here is the thread where we discussed the books that Joe is talking about:
http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=16404.15
I believe he ordered Dale Clemen's books #2 and #3, but it's better to wait for him to confirm.
Chad
Quote from: RiverAngler on March 18, 2016, 09:00:16 PM
Joe, that looks great! Please tell me what books you and Chad are talking about. It would be an immense help.
The two books Chad told about and I bought them is Custom Rod Thread Art and Advanced Custom Rod Building both books are authored by Clemen's
I fond these books to be very helpful.
Joe
Looking good Joe!
What are you using for finish there?
River,
I recently read the same 2 books. They have alot of great information, but are a bit dated and should be supplemented with some more modern you tube videos instructional videos. The RodBuilding.org forum, and some of its members are also valuable resources imho.
http://rodbuilding.org/list.php?2
The Custom Rod Builders Guild...
http://www.rodguild.com
and "The Rodcrafters Journal", published quarterly are also great resources for networking (or so I've heard).
I joined the Rod Builders Guild and it's not that great for information, the site doesn't have that much activity and it seams to me at least to be a bit impersonal, not like this site. For my money I would not renew my subscription. YouTube is much better.
Joe
Quote from: Tightlines666 on March 18, 2016, 10:26:35 PM
I recently read the same 2 books. They have alot of great information, but are a bit dated and should be supplemented with some more modern you tube videos instructional videos. The RodBuilding.org forum, and some of its members are also valuable resources imho.
http://rodbuilding.org/list.php?2
Tom at rodbuilding.org is also the editor of Rodmaker Magazine of which I was a past subscriber.
I found the info covered to not only be helpful, but also interesting as the writers delve into a variety of current and upcoming rodbuilding topics/techniques--as well as the basic nuts-and-bolts for those just starting out.
Each year RM hosts the International Custom Rod Building Expo in Winston Salem, NC:
http://www.icrbe.com
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UClARb8BM5k_GsaSalxq_vbA
The hands-on tutorials and purchasing opportunities at the ICRBE are definitely worth it, if you can make it.
Chad
Just a comment or two from fisherman/rod builder/top shot maker
Sometime us hobbiests go to great lengths for very little or no gain in practical applications. Yes Ive got 10 years old rods that have literally been tortured by fish over 200 lbs with color preserver used and nary a problem. Maybe with 365 use there might be a failure maybe. I suspect none of us use our tackle to its max potential that we build into it. Yes there is personal pride in making something perfect, to the best of our knowledge and ability but from a functional standpoint we overdo it Just sayin
dont shoot me please
I agree Bill. In my hands a rod going to get beat up and eventually broken. The goal is to make them as light as possible, with the best possible performance, for as long as possible, and for as cheap as possible. No one else is going to see them and my eyesight isn't what it used to be so aesthetics are ignored completely.
I have been using light weight guides with a single wrap and with just enough generic varnish to wet the thread (and wipe off the excess). Then the other day I had a wind knot in the last three or four guides, the line would not budge, the jig was snagged on the bottom, the wind was blowing the canoe along at three knots, the blank is rated for six to ten pound line but it was attached to the bottom with thirty pound braid, and something was going to break. Luckily, with the rod pointed at the snag, it just bent a guide and did not break off the tip when the wind knot was jerked free. Guides and tread are cheap but new blanks are not. Now I thinking of eliminating the thread varnish near the tip so a guide will be pulled off the rod to protect the tip when it happens again.
-steve
Functionality, fit, and durability seem first and formost. But this is not equal for all fishing techniques or fishermen for that matter. For some rods, weight actually takes a back seat to strength and durability. Usually lighter, is better though. Decretive wraps are just that.. decretive. I rod should provide years of reliable service, we'll doing its specific job well.
Thank you for the last comments, but I built the rod for my wife and she chose as well as I the design of the personal rod. That is the idea of making a custom rod...unless you guys miss the point, and they have functionally as well as looking good. However I respect the opinion of others as well so lets just say that's fine if you want that stile.
Joe
Joe
Your first one turned out really nice. Your decorative finish wraps are also balanced fairly well. Keep up the good work. Another thing for you to play around with for some unique looks is to use a thread that requires CP over something that you would like to get a see through effect. Then do not use the CP. Cover with thread finish and you will see the underlying color show through and guide feet will even show through some colors.
Dwight
Quote from: Newell Nut on March 19, 2016, 08:09:26 PM
Joe
Your first one turned out really nice. Your decorative finish wraps are also balanced fairly well. Keep up the good work. Another thing for you to play around with for some unique looks is to use a thread that requires CP over something that you would like to get a see through effect. Then do not use the CP. Cover with thread finish and you will see the underlying color show through and guide feet will even show through some colors.
Dwight
Dwight; I will try to do that on a practice blank, I have some colors that are not cped but I have to get more color combinations to try, as is I have very little to work with.
Joe
Joe
An easy way to start is to use an older rod or a flea market special that has a factory X wrap in the butt section. Clean it up good and maybe some light sanding and DNA. Just run a solid wrap like an underwrap over that area. Now add thread finish and you may be surprised to see the X wrap show through after finish is applied. This should give you some ideas. Don't use black. light colors and orange work best.
Dwight
The finished but wrap.
Joe
Well done!
That one turned out great so what is the next surprise going to be.
VERY NICE Joe. Is this your new plugging rod or is it a special one for Ruth?
.......................Lou
Quote from: STRIPER LOU on March 22, 2016, 12:09:58 AM
VERY NICE Joe. Is this your new plugging rod or is it a special one for Ruth?
.......................Lou
Ruth said YES!! I have another one to build after I get done with Ruth's rod.
Joe
Well I finished my first spiral wrap on the rod I have been building for Ruth I tested the guide alignment with a loaded rod and I had to adjust the second and third guides a little bit from side of transition. If that rod works as well as it did under full load,then I will never go back to conventional rod building.
Joe
Nice work Joe! It's been said before, but yard sale or pawn shop specials are a great way to get cheap raw materials for practice and you occasionally get some diamonds in the rough...this weekend I walked into a pawn shop and they had a bucket of rods missing tips for a dollar apiece...I bought twelve and they said for every five you get one free...12 rods for ten bucks, done. it's worth that for harvesting guides and seats. One is a Penn slammer with the plastic still on it, the tip is off (not broken). so for a $3 Fuji BPLT tip I'll have a decent 40lb rod for $4. I'll take that all day. keep at it, that's some great work on your first shot.
A point about wraps (my .02): years ago I rewrapped an old Magnaflex to put Aftco's on it. Used trimar metallic underwrap with nylon D overwrap. One coat of epoxy over the wraps. I bowed down on an eight foot shark hard enough that it permanently torqued the solid glass blank, but no damage to the guides at all. BTW Ande pink is good line, jus' sayin'.....
John
Thorhammer: Good idea on buying rod at garage sales and pawn or flee markets. Ive used Andy line in the past Mamoi and Stren, they all perform well for me.
Joe