I'm working on my first Ambassadeur that has the anti-reverse dog instead of an IAR bearing, and I've run into a few questions.
On the schematic for the 99-02 Ambassadeur the AR dog is shown as part 20687. I think that is the one with the two copper friction leaves. The one on my reel only has one friction leaf, and it looks like it rides on the bottom of the drive cog. I'm wondering if it is just a part variation, or if it is the wrong part for this reel. It seems to fit well on the post and work correctly, so I'm inclined to just continue to use it. Part 20687 is no longer available. The parts sites say to use the the anti-reverse dog from the 7000 (13372) and two washers (13169) instead. One thing that gives me pause is that the AR dog doesn't seem to hit the drive cog squarely. When I push down a bit on the drive stack, though, the dog aligns with the cog. When the reel is assembled won't there be some pressure on the drive stack from the star drag?
I'm thinking I should grease lightly the bottom of the drive, but oil the AR dog post. Does that sound right?
The schematic says that the drag washers are part 20907. Is 20907 Abu's carbon washer? The washers on my reel feel like a hard plastic material. Did Abu ever use hard plastic-like material for this size drag washers? Should I apply drag grease to these washers or leave them dry?
When the handle is turned after pushing the free spool button the button returns back up slowly, without an audible click sound. Does it look like the return spring is installed correctly? This may also be caused by old grease under the mechanism. Will see after I clean and re-lubricate.
Should the crank bearing (20647) be oiled or greased. It feels smooth, but slow, as if it is packed with grease. Because of this (and maybe the friction from the AR dog leaf) the handle only spins for around 1/2 second if I try to spin it. Is this normal for these older 5500 C3s with the AR dog?
Overall the reel seems to be in good shape. I already cleaned and lubricated the levelwind components and the spool bearings, and the spool spins for 3.5 - 4 seconds in free spool with the stock bearings and levelwind components. Looking forward to getting the right side cleaned, lubricated, and re-assembled so I can fish with it.
Thanks for any insights you can contribute!
Mark
I have a reel that had that single leaf dog. I replaced it with a double leaf dog and it works just great but I went to a smaller under gear drag washer to accommodate. The reason for that single leaf is to allow for a larger drag disk. But if you have a multi disk stack you won't notice the loss.
yup, get a double leaf dog.
Not gonna lie one bit lol!
I've had a lot of Abu's in my day, and still have at least, 15 or so of them!
They're all Swedish models, except for the 7000 blue yonder, and unless I'm having a senior moment, lol! I don't remember seeing a dog like that?
Don't think my 7000's look like that either!
Learn something new here every day!
Quote from: JasonGotaProblem on September 05, 2023, 01:13:35 AMI have a reel that had that single leaf dog. I replaced it with a double leaf dog and it works just great but I went to a smaller under gear drag washer to accommodate. The reason for that single leaf is to allow for a larger drag disk. But if you have a multi disk stack you won't notice the loss.
Aha! That explains why all the drag washers are the same size on this reel. I was wondering about that.
Is there an advantage to the double leaf dog? Even though the parts places don't have them used ones seem to be readily available online.
I find the "pinch" makes it more reliable. But thats shared as opinion and not fact.
If that's the way the reel came I'd leave it. The anti-reverse function doesn't skip, does it?
The under-gear washer looks to be the same type I've seen on 80's era Abu Ambassadeurs. Kinda like a hard fiber substance.
Can't really tell about the return springs...
I would think a double leaf dog keeps better alignment with the ratchet. Thinner or smaller o.d. under gear drag washer should be fine. Just take care to remove both together so leafs don't get tweaked.
Quote from: work2fish on September 05, 2023, 01:35:57 AMQuote from: JasonGotaProblem on September 05, 2023, 01:13:35 AMI have a reel that had that single leaf dog. I replaced it with a double leaf dog and it works just great but I went to a smaller under gear drag washer to accommodate. The reason for that single leaf is to allow for a larger drag disk. But if you have a multi disk stack you won't notice the loss.
Aha! That explains why all the drag washers are the same size on this reel. I was wondering about that.
Is there an advantage to the double leaf dog? Even though the parts places don't have them used ones seem to be readily available online.
E-replacement parts has the double leaf, pinch dogs in stock for $4.95+S&H, And they have brand new single leaf dogs on eBay for $6.95+S&H. Both in stock, I just went and checked for you!
Try to find a AR bearing side plate and build a reel with a AR dog and AR bearing.
Quote from: Keta on September 05, 2023, 04:17:48 AMTry to find a AR bearing side plate and build a reel with a AR dog and AR bearing.
What he said. Gotta love dual AR
should work out good with the double leaf dog, also not to much lube on it as that will restrict the pivoting, Mark welcome from sunny Western Australia, cheers Don.
Ok so if you want to use carbon drags the under gear washer needs to be small enough that the AR dog flap doesnt touch it. If it does, either the flap will eventually shred the drag disk, the drag disk will prevent the dog from properly engaging, or maybe both. I've been meaning to open up one of my older 5000C (a reliable source for double flapped dogs) and see what the OD of the under gear drag is. I suspect even though it's not made of shred-able carbon it's probably still small.
Thanks, all, for the suggestions!
I'm hoping to fish on Friday, so for now I'm just going to clean everything, re-lube, and reassemble, using the one-leaf AR dog that is already on there.
I do have a set of the carbontex drag washers, though, so I might use those to replace the drag washers that are on there now. The carbontex washer that goes under the drive is one of the smaller-diameter ones, so I would be set in case I want to switch to the two-leaf AR dog later. Does upgrading to the carbontex washers make a big difference in the drag performance?
It might be a winter project to look for a right side plate from a newer 5500 C3 with the IAR bearing and try to build an Ambassadeur with IAR bearing and AR dog backup. I checked on the prices for a new side-late (22481) and the part (22001) that would replace the crank bearing, but with shipping they would be significantly more than I paid for the reel! For now I'm just trying to just get a few used Ambassadeurs cleaned and tuned for regular fishing use, but I can definitely feel the attraction of getting more, some for the parts, and tinkering with them!
Mark
Quote from: work2fish on September 05, 2023, 06:46:41 PMDoes upgrading to the carbontex washers make a big difference in the drag performance?
Depends, kinda looks like yours are already carbon fiber? I bought my 6501C3 in 2007 and pretty sure it came stock with carbon fiber washers. Good enough to land some decent fish.
So if originals are still in good shape, changing them out might give a noticeable, but not huge difference.
CF is CF, if yours are ABU CF use them.
His look to me like abu hard washers. But I'm no expert, and I'm wrong a lot. I will, however, send some fresh cut carbons out if w2f wants to pm me his address.
That's a beautiful fish, Sciaenops! What's the rod that your Ambassadeur is on in the picture?
This reel is from 2002. I'm not sure what the drag washers are made out of, but they feel almost like plastic to me, and they're thicker than the carbontex drag washers I bought, and much thicker than the washers in the other used Ambassadeur I have, which is from 2007. I'm pretty sure those are carbon fiber.
I'm sure the stock drag is fine for my normal fishing in PA, where a 5-10 lb channel catfish or carp is a nice fish, but I hope to do some saltwater fishing with it someday.
Mark
Quote from: Keta on September 05, 2023, 09:33:30 PMCF is CF, if yours are ABU CF use them.
My other Ambassadeur is from 2007, and I think it has the Abu carbon fiber washers. On this reel, which is from 2002 the washers are thicker and feel like plastic to me.
Quote from: JasonGotaProblem on September 05, 2023, 09:50:47 PMHis look to me like abu hard washers. But I'm no expert, and I'm wrong a lot. I will, however, send some fresh cut carbons out if w2f wants to pm me his address.
They are thick and feel like plastic to me, so you're probably right! Thanks for the offer of the fresh cut carbons, but I had already bought some for my other Ambassadeur before I realized that it already had carbon. I can use those.
Mark
Quote from: work2fish on September 05, 2023, 10:10:21 PMWhat's the rod that your Ambassadeur is on in the picture?
Its a 7' Seeker Classic 193, all glass noodle inherited from my FIL. Good for 10# halibut, less so for 20+# dorado. :D :D
When I got around to opening mine up (long after landing the pictured dodo), the originals were dry & smooth, so I went ahead and swapped em out for greased C-tex. Still one of my favorite reels.
Quote from: work2fish on September 05, 2023, 10:10:21 PMThis reel is from 2002. I'm not sure what the drag washers are made out of, but they feel almost like plastic to me, and they're thicker than the carbontex drag washers I bought, and much thicker than the washers in the other used Ambassadeur I have, which is from 2007
Sounds like CF replacements it is! Let us know how it turns out - I'm betting you'll like it.
I ended up using all the original components except for the drag. Upgraded to carbontex washers. Took it fishing for the first time today and was lucky enough to initiate the reel with a nice channel cat. It had a few runs of several seconds on the drag, and the drag was silky smooth!
The other Ambassadeur I got already had Abu carbon fiber washers, so I left them in. I didn't catch a fish on that reel today, but the drag doesn't feel as smooth as the one with the carbontex.
Mark
A realy nice channel cat!
Check your metal washers for burrs and warpage and the gear for burrs.
Quote from: Keta on September 09, 2023, 03:08:26 PMCheck your metal washers for burrs and warpage and the gear for burrs.
Do you mean on the reel that still has the original washers? I'll check for those things next time I have the reel open.
That reel looked like it had been flooded (lots of very fine dirt particles inside), so it is also possible that I didn't clean the washers well enough. They were greased, and I just wiped off the grease. Can/should drag washers be cleaned with solvent?
Yes, the rough reel. The CF washers might have grit impeded in the fibers and if so should be replaced.
Quote from: work2fish on September 09, 2023, 04:27:00 PMQuote from: Keta on September 09, 2023, 03:08:26 PMCheck your metal washers for burrs and warpage and the gear for burrs.
Do you mean on the reel that still has the original washers? I'll check for those things next time I have the reel open.
That reel looked like it had been flooded (lots of very fine dirt particles inside), so it is also possible that I didn't clean the washers well enough. They were greased, and I just wiped off the grease. Can/should drag washers be cleaned with solvent?
They usually come good with a soaking it white spirits. You want a solvent that doesn't leave a residue.
Quote from: Keta on September 09, 2023, 03:08:26 PMThey usually come good with a soaking it white spirits. You want a solvent that doesn't leave a residue.
Thanks. That's good to know.
I had my son pull out the line to engage the drag a few times today and I realized that the drag is actually pretty smooth, but it is uneven, seeming to cycle between a bit tighter and a bit looser. That reel also has a bit of geariness when I turn the handle, but that is also cyclical. This makes me think that I had better take Keta's suggestion and check for warped or bent components.
I agree with Keta. Get what's needed to make it run smoothly.
I love my Abu's for wade fishing, but they don't like any invasive particles. I have to make myself bring them inside the house and put them on the bench for cleaning after each use. EVERY time I fail to do this, I regret it. They are very needy, but they are a great pleasure to cast as long as they're clean.
Mine never see saltwater.
Quote from: Keta on September 10, 2023, 03:16:53 AMMine never see saltwater.
I never see freshwater unless it's a stock tank in a pasture. So close to the coast that everything I own has salt on it. Cleaning reels is a regular chore like mowing grass down here. I have to watch out for my shelfies too. Yep, I'm whining.
Quote from: Shellbelly on September 10, 2023, 04:15:14 AMQuote from: Keta on September 10, 2023, 03:16:53 AMMine never see saltwater.
I never see freshwater unless it's a stock tank in a pasture. So close to the coast that everything I own has salt on it. Cleaning reels is a regular chore like mowing grass down here. I have to watch out for my shelfies too. Yep, I'm whining.
It's the price of having access to all those large, strong ocean fish :D. Here in Pittsburgh, unless we learn to catch flathead catfish from the shore (which we are failing at so far) the best we can hope for is to hook a large channel catfish or carp.
These two Ambassadeur are my first attempt at working on my own reels. One of the things that attracted me to the Abus was their reputation as being easy to service and find parts for. Even though we don't have salt here, we do a lot of night fishing for catfish and carp, and we frequently are fishing during and after heavy rains. During a heavy rain the raindrops splash mud all over the reels. One approach would be to get expensive reels that are sealed, but those seem to be harder to work on, and I don't trust that they will stay sealed over time.
It's kind of like hiking boots. Anyone who hikes knows that there is no such thing as a waterproof boot. Either the water will eventually make it into the boot, or it will become waterlogged with sweat. Better to have a hiking boot or shoe that works ok wet and is easy to drain, dry, and clean. Not sure if the analogy totally holds up, but I like the idea of a reel that I can use in rough conditions, and then just go home and service myself.