Here's another way to do what you wanna do. Using two assist hooks that have one loop makes sense in some applications. So here's a quick and fairly easy way.
Here is one that is cut apart to illustrate.
As shown the hooks you are using or have chosen may not have room for both ends thru the eye of the hook. So this is another way to do it. Using a single overhand knot and whipping the tag end certainly is a small knot and won't come undone. Cement or epoxy can be used for insurance. A shrink type ove cleans and protects from chafing, especially if it's almost to the end of the loop. This adds some stiffness for anti tangle.
Another option is to adjust the hooks after tying to the length desired, parallel as shown or offset.
Remember an knot and the loop will shorten the leader somewhat.🎣
This system allows you to use larger stiff leader in your assist. Another way is to snell the first hook if the leader will pass back thru the eye Ann's the pc of shrink tube and a sister pc for the other side and tie the second hook as shown above. Then heat the tubes and smile 🐟
I'm switching to SS and Ti assist hooks instead of cord. Toothy fish got my hooks. I will try corded assist hooks with circle hooks in hopes that the cord will be outside of the toothy area.
Bryan, I have had a lot of success with hollow kevlar for assist hooks. It's stiffer than spectra (less tangles) and very abrasion/tooth resistant.
I simply blind splice a loop in one end. The other end goes through the hook eye then 2 overhand knots (in opposite directions) onto the shank. A touch of ca and finished with shrink wrap.
It's incedibly strong - because of the splice the kevlar is double thickness, which also makes it a lot stiffer but still flexible.
(http://alantani.com/gallery/25/9780_04_11_18_7_36_54_258522327.jpeg)
I have some JB 200# hollow Kevelar if you want some Bryan. Jerry no longer sells it. Some already made up and ready to put on the hooks.
I,m glad Lee emphasized the part about Kevlar being very cut resistant. Its nor more expensive than stranded ti or sst possibly and easier to tie. In my halibut photo the stinger is 1000 lb. test. a single line. Its even hard to cut with a sharp knife. I generally tie it with a turks head knot and whipp it with spectra and finish with a coat of epoxy. Good fishing to all you stinger folks. :)
Quote from: Keta on November 04, 2018, 02:46:09 PM
I have some JB 200# hollow Kevelar if you want some Bryan. Jerry no longer sells it. Some already made up and ready to put on the hooks.
I'll give it a try Lee. I also heard that Kevlar doesn't last when exposed to water. That is why it isn't used in making rods and boats anymore. If this a fake fact?
No idea, I doubt it as we had Kevlar anchor ropes on the AMHS ferries.
Kevlar is what all mooring lines in the Navy are going to. We store some in free flood areas, that means months of soaking under "deeper that 200 feet" of sea pressure. Never had a problem, and we wouldn't do it if there was the potential for a problem.
Kevlar line is amazing. Everything that is good about braid is good (or better) about kevlar.
The Man
Yup - what Ron said. I havn't heard anything bad about kevlar. I still have and use a couple of carbon/kevlar rods from the 70's - never been a problem. I've been using kevlar braid (hollow and solid) for a number of years - again never a problem) A lot of bad press frequently comes from rival manufacturers. Try it - if it works for you - it's a result.
Yeah. A new solution. I think I'll order some in various strengths.
Quote from: Bryan Young on November 04, 2018, 09:31:16 PM
Yeah. A new solution. I think I'll order some in various strengths.
Some 200# hollow will be in the mail, already made into loops. I wouldn't use anything lighter than 200#.
Thanks for expanding the Kevlar topic here Lee. I now make some harpoon cables from kevlar cord. Ive not had any problems yet.
The knot or crimp or ?? connection still needs to be considered no matter if its spectra/ dyneema or kevlar or steel/ti.
I,m always interested in hearing how these newer products are working for everybody.
Remember when we used to use steel lines for sturgeon? I could never go back. Lost a few nice fish thru kinks over time. And we thought that stuff was expenzive? Glad to get away from crimping too! ;)
Kelvar has very high temp melting point. Spectra has very low melting melting point. A consideration
when you are covering your hook/knot with shrink tubing.
Quote from: gstours on November 05, 2018, 02:21:51 PM
Thanks for expanding the Kevlar topic here Lee. I now make some harpoon cables from kevlar cord.
Mine are 1000# Spectra.
FYI you can get shrink wrap with a hot glue in them. Makes a bullet proof bond over crimps, knots, etc.
I like the idea, of tying the line around the shank of the hook, I think a lot of strikes are mist, when the hook slops around to freely, cheers Don.
Cause its sunday night, Ill just add a tip. if you use a piece of glow or colored tubing and pull it in the spectra or ?? lone loop and trim it to what length you desire... the tube helps keep it stiffer, adds color, and helps with toothy chafe. Then add a short pc of heat shrink tube over the hook wraps and forward a half inch . Then shrink it with your heat choice. Waay better. just me? ???
I had to buy a dozen 13/0 VMC 7264-TI hooks but only needed 4 of them but will keep 2 for spares. Let me know if anyone needs any of these.
(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/c2UAAOSw5PJbKZeu/s-l1600.jpg)
1. The one negative aspect of Kevlar is UV degradation. For super thick stuff like mooring lines like Ron was mentioning, it is probably not much of an issue as the outermost layer may degrade, but it will still function as a UV shield to the underlying layers.
Thinner stuff is a different story. Most overviews of kevlar fabrics and yarns mention UV exposure issues. One study showed Kevlar fabric loosing half of its strength after five weeks exposure in Florida sunshine. Still not a big deal for fishing tackle that is not stored in sunlight or under fluorescent lights. The stuff will still get chewed up, hooks rust out etc., so assist rigs are not intended to last forever anyways.
I like hollow Kevlar braid for larger assist hooks. It is a bit on the stiff side for smaller stuff.
Here are a couple of the relevant sources that I used to learn about Kevlar (DuPont trade name for Aramid fiber):
http://www.dupont.com/content/dam/dupont/products-and-services/fabrics-fibers-and-nonwovens/fibers/documents/Kevlar_Technical_Guide.pdf (http://www.dupont.com/content/dam/dupont/products-and-services/fabrics-fibers-and-nonwovens/fibers/documents/Kevlar_Technical_Guide.pdf)
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1177/073168448600500103 (https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1177/073168448600500103)
2. A contrarian viewpoint: Many fishermen don't really trust/understand assist hooks and rig them in ways that minimize the benefit. I think that the primary benefit of assist hooks is that they take advantage of the relative vacuum generated when a fish attacks prey. Predators use suction as they open the mouth to help draw the prey in. There are also marine biology papers available that explore the importance suction as a feeding technique for various species, and even a paper or two that measure the decrease in water pressure generated in a predatory feeding action.
If constructed properly, an assist hook can improve the odds of getting a hookset when vertical jigging, even if the lure itself is not completely taken. This helps especially with a drive-by bite, or when the lure is large or heavy in relation to the target species size and/or mouth construction. Check out underwater videos of assist hooks in action and you will see what I mean.
Dressing up assist hooks, using heavy hooks, stiff and/or short leaders, or even lashing the hook to the lure decreases the primary benefit. Some amount of compromise is necessary to avoid fouling or bending hooks, but limp, long, light, and naked is the way to go in my opinion.
3. Getting back on track for this thread: I haven't tried double assist hooks like Gary shows above. Curious about any experiences on the effectiveness vs single hooks. Having an extra hook flopping around does have the downside of getting yourself hooked when handling /releasing the fish.
-J
Thanks for more assist hook information. I,m learning more here all the time. I certainly didn't know that Kevlar degrades with sunlight. It just thought it was very similar to the spectra lines that don't . Tanks. ;)
Quote from: gstours on November 04, 2018, 04:35:59 PM
I,m glad Lee emphasized the part about Kevlar being very cut resistant. Its nor more expensive than stranded ti or sst possibly and easier to tie. In my halibut photo the stinger is 1000 lb. test. a single line. Its even hard to cut with a sharp knife. I generally tie it with a turks head knot and whipp it with spectra and finish with a coat of epoxy. Good fishing to all you stinger folks. :)
Just looking back on this post, not sure why :-\:
It was me not Lee that talked about 'cut/tooth resistent', no big deal, just accuracy. Soooo if you try it and disagree blame me ;D