I would like some information about hooking live bait. We fishermen use a variety of terms (at least here in the U.S.) We use live baiting, live lining, live rigging etc. (Wallace will come up with a good one :)) I once read an article about hooking live bait to make the fish travel in a certain direction. When I went to implement the directions in the article I could not find the article. The article was based on live lining Sardina in Baja. The article went on to say if you hooked the fish in a certain way you could make the Sardina travel left or right or down or away from the boat. Do any of you live lining fishermen know of such an article? How do you personally hook live bait in general, not only Sardina? Dominick
I usually hook anchovies and sardines through the nose. Although on my last tuna trip I sardines were huge and I wasn't having much luck so I tried anal hooking them to make them swim down.
Dominick, I hook my minnows and shiners on their back ;D ;D. Hope that helps! ;)
Quote from: spottybastard on December 21, 2011, 07:25:25 PM
Although on my last tuna trip the sardines were huge and I wasn't having much luck so I tried anal hooking them to make them swim down.
Hey Dominick, I would think that if you were to hook anything in the anal, you'd get really quick results in getting it to move left, right, and in all kinds of directions. :P ;D
Depending on how thick or how big your hook is, I've hooked my sardines through the eye sockets or in the mouth straight up through the front part of the skull and had them stay alive. I've dropped them down 200 feet of water with a 12 ounce lead and they stayed on. I've hooked some nice size Rock fish and link cods this way.
We do a lot of live-baiting for kingfish, both on the surface and at depth, with a wide range of bait fish such as slimy mackerel, piper, kahawai etc.
Historically, I've tended to hook bigger bait fish such as mackerel and kahawai just behind the head (and in front of the dorsal fin), with the point of the hook angled forward.
Piper are much softer (and generally smaller), so I usually hook 'em near the anal fin.
Recently, I've started threading braid through the front of the eye socket (with a darning needle) and using a bridle of up to a meter to the hook.
This seems to produce the most natural swimming motion and maintains the bait's condition for the longest.
I tried rubber bands (with the hook basically held against the head), but didn't have the same level of success as with the longer bridle (plus they didn't seem to live as long).
They also don't tend to last as long when hooked directly through the mouth or eyes.
Naturally, the weight and size of the hook has an impact on how and where the bait swims, but I haven't experimented with this too much...
Interested to hear others' techniques.
Cheers, Justin
For mullet or cigar minnows, I hook in the nose in front of the brain. On Hard tail or blue runners for king fish; we have a small hook in the nose and 2 trebles on the side.
justin got it down exactly how we do it in hawaii. we call it a bridel, needle thru eye socket
Normally nose hook for surface fishing. If birds are a problem, add small sliding sinker or butt hook (just below the anal), sometimes in the back. I'm not sure how to make it go left or right. Maybe collar hook?
It looks like most is all covered. I've also hook on the collar on the right or left. Makes the fish swim in circles esp if you are fishing straight down.
I think the main point is that live bait should hooked according to how they are to be fished. If you are using a weight, always hook in the nose. To get it to swim down without a weight, try the back or lightly in the belly. But mostly, pick a hook for the bait, not the quarry. This can mean a small light hook for large fish.
Left, left collar. Right, right collar. Down, pin the hook over the two fins in front of the butthole. Nose hook and you can catch fish on the out going and retrieve also. Also shoulder hook works well(neck, behind the head). I nose hook whenever there is a weight involved.
a couple of methods you may or may not know.
small thin button with small braid loop.
bait needle from top thru nose.top jaw only.
pick up loop and pull thru.
lasso the hook.
you can troll live fish for hours,because fish can close its mouth.
(http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb326/wallacewt/live%20bait/harrys139.jpg)
(http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb326/wallacewt/live%20bait/harrys135.jpg)
2nd method sailfish special.
live (ballyhoo,piper,garfish)
hook is non offset,small eye so drinking straw can pass over
pass hook thru bottom jaw,lay hook along beak,slide 3" drinking staw over hook and beak
(http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb326/wallacewt/live%20bait/harrys138.jpg)
(http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb326/wallacewt/live%20bait/harrys127.jpg)
It looks like REK answered what I was looking for. REK do you know that this system works? I will try it. When you hook the collar, do you hook it high in the collar or about midway? Do you hook it with the hook going forward toward the gills or in and out on the side? Are you hooking through the collar (tough material) or soft behind the collar? Where did you get your information and are there any illustrations? Dominick
I hook collars mid to mid upper. Into the gill slot and out towards the back. Info? Probably off some message board if not out on a boat. Most of the time I'm butt hooking if I plan to get bit shortly...as in a chum the fish to the stern corner situation. Nose hook on a drifting, drag a bait away due to fish being boat shy. Nose hook always with a weight or the bait looks odd swimming backwards or sideways.
Time to let out a few secrets.
Application Fly lining sardines to YFT that are on a tough pick bite.
Hook type preferred is J hook vs a circle hook. The reason is J hooks are lighter and offer a smaller profile. Main draw back is the possibility of deep hooking and the resultant bite off.
Nose hook when current and wind is in the same direction. The bait will run well near the surface and be able to make the 100yd journey and still be lively. J hooks only if you maintain good contact with your bait to prevent the YFT from swallowing the bait. Otherwise a small circles are called for.
When wind and current don't match or the birds are being a problem and picking up the baits or biting the line I will 'deep' Ventral hook the fish with a J hook of the appropriate size. J hook to keep the weight down and sized so the point lays against the side of the bait (prevents deep hooking a YFT suffering bite offs). Shallow ventral hooking does not provide good bait longevity and you get too many gut hooked fish.
Deep Ventral hooking details:
Ventral is the area where the 2 fins are located near the Anus.
Bait will run deeper and can be controlled by hook weight and how far forward or back from the ventral fin it is placed. The farther back the deeper it will run.
Deep hook is defined a penetrating the bait where the shank is pressed up against the bottom of the fish but not so far up that it may contact the spine of the fish. Most Deep hooking does not penetrate the body cavity of the fish but can enter the cavity if placed forward of the anus (this is OK so long as you do not pierce the intestine). Also the J hook needs to have a beak point that curve slightly in toward the shank like Eagle claw hooks. Gama flyline hooks have straight points while their regular live bait hooks have the 'claw' points. I use a lot of gama 3/0 and 4/0 live bait hooks with the longer shank on sardines with great success.
Hook size is selected so that the hook gap is equal to or slightly less than the width of the bait where you penetrate the bait with the hook. This allows the bait to become a effective hook guard so a swallowed bait can be pulled back to the corner of the mouth resulting is a very high hook up rate in the corner of the mouth. This only works if you DO NOT set the hook but simply apply the drag to the fish once it begins to run.
Deep anal hooked fish are durable and can be worked very hard ( grabbing your line and jerking it back results in the bait taking hard fast runs away from you). You can work a sardine (a hot one) over 200yrd on 50# spectra and 25' of 35# flouro.
My cousin and I on our last trip to the Lupe resulted in 28 YFT (65-85#) all hooked in the corner of the mouth with no bite offs. It required J hooks and fly lining 100-200 yrds with 35# black water leaders with 50# solid spectra main line (Spider wire Ultracast).
BTW if every one else is nose hooking your bait stands out and runs deeper so you have fewer tangles. You can also fish farther out than the the 'other guys'.
Good luck next time your all out and if the fishing gets picky give it a try. It might save your day.
Jim N.
Wallacewt....
Have you ever used the "Straw" method to troll a dead ballyhoo...???
Wonder what you might see if in addition to the hook and straw, a chin wt. was wired into place under the gills...???
I'm too far North in Florida to be able to get live 'hoos. We troll dead ones a lot, and I'm always looking for simpler, quicker rigging ideas.
Thanks for your contribution.
not for dead baits.mouth and gills have to be closed,beak trimmed.
but i have never tried!
the beauty of the straw,1 person can do it by himself while the boat is moving forward
the button is best with 2 people,good for casting tough baits,they dont fly off the hook
Wiring in the "chin weight" would take care of the mouth and gills. Probably need to clip off the pectoral fins and remove the eyes. Downside might be a lot of short-strike bite offs.
Just pondering options around here while it's too cold and rough to get offshore. :'(
Hey Dominick,
Saw this vid on youtube recently which goes over all the technicques mentioned and are the ways I hook fish:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cz7GiL3yCXQ&list=UUpZbNw3dm_1DX11oFV2Khng&index=4&feature=plcp
Hope this helps, it's also excellent prep for Long Range fishing (I used to have a video cassette ;D similar to this)
Leo
Thanks Leo: The visual always helps. dominick
Quote from: Dominick on December 21, 2011, 05:46:51 PMI would like some information about hooking live bait.
Better LATE, than NEVER . . . See the ATTACHMENT below . . . ENJOY ! ! !
Thanks Dave. We live bait Sardinas in Cabo and the Mexicans always use the nostril hook up. I once read in WON that there were ways to direct the way the fish swims. Your attachment does exactly that. Thanks. Dominick
Sardines: Sideways through the nostrils or butt hook to get it to swim deeper.
Anchovies: Collar hook for flylining or up through jaw/nose if using a dropper loop/sliding sinker.
If you pluck out an eyeball the bait will swim in the direction of the missing eye!
Quote from: MarkT on June 05, 2015, 05:34:50 PM
Sardines: Sideways through the nostrils or butt hook to get it to swim deeper.
Anchovies: Collar hook for flylining or up through jaw/nose if using a dropper loop/sliding sinker.
If you pluck out an eyeball the bait will swim in the direction of the missing eye!
x2
I'm going to begin shoulder hooking sardines and see how that works for me. The dine will look "different" (swimming differently) from all the nose hooked ones (which is usually the #1 method). It will also be pulling line rather than pushing line (if nose hooked). The hook is also on top of the bait, hidden from the pelagics attacking from beneath the dine. This method is also supposed to work well on a long soak; if winding in the dine it will imitate a swimming motion which can get you bit; it's also easier to jerk out the hook if you want to replace the dine. Doing so, especially on a long soak, can prevent one from getting in tangles while winding in only a hook.
Supposedly, you can also collar hook a dine. I may try this also. Doing something different than the 20 other folks on the boat can end up being a good thing.
Quote from: Dominick on June 05, 2015, 05:05:37 PM
Thanks Dave. We live bait Sardinas in Cabo and the Mexicans always use the nostril hook up. I once read in WON that there were ways to direct the way the fish swims. Your attachment does exactly that. Thanks. Dominick
Anytime, Dominick . . .
Tight Lines ! ! !
Put Elastic band onto circle hook and twist up,thread elastic band through the nostrils or eyes with a bait needle and twist up then remove off bait hook onto the circle. The elastic band is threaded through the fish and holds the circle hook in front of the fishes nose.
Usually I am drifting when fishing live baits. If I am flying the kite I will hook them just in front of the dorsal fin. Bigger baits will get bridled.
Usually the flat line or weighted baits will get hooked through the nose if using smaller baits and hooks. Larger baits will also get bridled through the eye sockets. If fishing for Kingfish or Wahoo a second stinger or trap hook will be used also, sometimes planted in the body, and sometimes free swinging.
Some good info on hooking live bait, I not so sure I would practice the method of laying my rod on the rail when fight a big fish. Ive had a rod snap trying to horse a Strip Bass over a rail and that is nothing compared to those Tuna.
I use two hooks.First one through the bottom jaw and up through the nose and the 2nd between dorsal and tail , high up. Some fish go for the head and others the tail end so you get more hook ups and less half mutilated bait .
This is a very interesting topic. I'm not sure if your people also using the non return clip
You cast in without bait - only the sinker - You get more distance like this and then you clip on the live bait.
The non return clip can only go forward and the fish can not swim back.
We used this method here in South Africa.
Here is pictures to demonstrate
Henry
Henry thanks for that information. This set-up is new to me. I must see if they are available here. Are they just called non return clips? Dominick
Non return clip or slide is what we called it. It's not that difficult to make it and we get the slides at our local fishing shops as well. It is made out of spring-steel
There are two different non return clips - One without a weight and one with a weight.
After the sinker is set and the live bait is clipped on then you shake down the rod ( move the rod up and down to get the live bait over the waves and deeper into the water)