Working on Shimano Tekota 500LC. The problem on this reel is that when trolling with the clutch lever where it should be (forward position) and a fish strikes and runs, the clutch lever flies backwards, locks into the free spool position and it starts to free spool with a resulting birds nest.
It looks to me like the bottom part of the pinion gear may be worn although I don't have one to look at to compare. The part of the pinion I am referring to is the side that locks into the spool assembly. The notches in the pinion gear lock onto the pin that goes through the spool shaft. The notch edges look worn and are all angled. Not sure if this is the design of the pinion or wear on the pinion. Question would be is the spool assembly side of the pinion's edge supposed to be perfectly squared off or are each of the 4 pieces of the pinion gear that form notches, angled (by design). Attached is a picture of the pinion.
This reel is fished in shallow water. often times less than 6 feet. A dropper weight is used and contact with the bottom is made by free spooling from time to time. This keeps the spinner close to the bottom, adjustments to depths are frequent. It is the habit of this fisherman to use the clutch lever to make minor adjustments by pushing slightly back on the clutch lever to release line. But, the lever is only partially pushed back and not locked into the free spool position.
If it isn't the pinion gear, would anyone have any idea what might cause this problem?
Thanks, Steve
Here are a couple of pictures of the pinion gear. One is hazy but if you look close you can see the angle. I am thinking this may be designed that way and through wear, has worn down the edges of the notches enough to allow it to jump back out when a fish suddenly strikes, causing the spool to free spool. But, not sure.
Steve(http://[img])[/img]
If it was the pinion slipping it would do it in 90 degree increments. The pinion base can get worn, usually caused by engaging the spool on the cast or engaging the spool when letting line out for trolling without stopping the spool before doing so. The spool is spinning like crazy and when engaged the stainless steel spool shaft slams into the softer brass pinion. Eventually it rounds out and will begin to hop or skip under load. I see that problem a lot.
As for the clutch arm flying back. That's a new one and I have no idea what would cause that.
Quote from: Lunker Larry on September 25, 2019, 10:30:02 PM...The pinion base can get worn, usually caused by engaging engaging the spool when letting line out for trolling without stopping the spool before doing so. The spool is spinning like crazy and when engaged the stainless steel spool shaft slams into the softer brass pinion. Eventually it rounds out and will begin to hop or skip under load.
Thanks for that Larry I must admit treating my Tekota poorly on occasion.
Quote from: Lunker Larry on September 25, 2019, 10:30:02 PM
If it was the pinion slipping it would do it in 90 degree increments. The pinion base can get worn, usually caused by engaging the spool on the cast or engaging the spool when letting line out for trolling without stopping the spool before doing so. The spool is spinning like crazy and when engaged the stainless steel spool shaft slams into the softer brass pinion. Eventually it rounds out and will begin to hop or skip under load. I see that problem a lot.
As for the clutch arm flying back. That's a new one and I have no idea what would cause that.
[/quote
Thanks for the info. Bumping the the clutch to adjust for depth would possibly qualify as causing the spool shaft to slam into the softer brass pinion in that the spool is still spinning when the clutch lever is let down and the spool shaft engaged. So that may account for the wear I see on the pinion. In addition if the lever was not fully locked back when line was let out, I would think there is a good possibility that the pinion is grating against the spool shaft while the line is being let out which may cause further wear.
May I ask you one more question. Is the pinion machined so that each of the 4 high points (that form the slots in base of the pinion) angled, as the pictures show, or are they supposed to be flat as quite a few other pinions are. The angles are quite pronounced. I'm thinking it is designed that way but need confirmation.
Thank you.
Quote from: Lunker Larry on September 25, 2019, 10:30:02 PM
If it was the pinion slipping it would do it in 90 degree increments. The pinion base can get worn, usually caused by engaging the spool on the cast or engaging the spool when letting line out for trolling without stopping the spool before doing so. The spool is spinning like crazy and when engaged the stainless steel spool shaft slams into the softer brass pinion. Eventually it rounds out and will begin to hop or skip under load. I see that problem a lot.
As for the clutch arm flying back. That's a new one and I have no idea what would cause that.
Will this happen on this type of pinion gear? I can imagine it happening on the Daiwa design, sorry I lack the engineering terminology to describe it properly, but Daiwa reels, the spool shaft has a square shoulder that slots into the pinion and I can imagine the corresponding surface of the pinion wearing, but Shimano reels have the pin that engages in the slots and ones its in then it will take a lot to get it out unless it is totally worn to pot. Is it perhaps not engaging properly? The clutch mechanism is perhaps toast? I have always thought it is a really bad idea to slam your reel into gear when the spool is running. This confirms it to me.
the pinion gear looks normal...... :-\
Quote from: retiredandfishing on September 26, 2019, 05:40:01 AM
Quote from: Lunker Larry on September 25, 2019, 10:30:02 PM
If it was the pinion slipping it would do it in 90 degree increments. The pinion base can get worn, usually caused by engaging the spool on the cast or engaging the spool when letting line out for trolling without stopping the spool before doing so. The spool is spinning like crazy and when engaged the stainless steel spool shaft slams into the softer brass pinion. Eventually it rounds out and will begin to hop or skip under load. I see that problem a lot.
As for the clutch arm flying back. That's a new one and I have no idea what would cause that.
[/quote
Thanks for the info. Bumping the the clutch to adjust for depth would possibly qualify as causing the spool shaft to slam into the softer brass pinion in that the spool is still spinning when the clutch lever is let down and the spool shaft engaged. So that may account for the wear I see on the pinion. In addition if the lever was not fully locked back when line was let out, I would think there is a good possibility that the pinion is grating against the spool shaft while the line is being let out which may cause further wear.
May I ask you one more question. Is the pinion machined so that each of the 4 high points (that form the slots in base of the pinion) angled, as the pictures show, or are they supposed to be flat as quite a few other pinions are. The angles are quite pronounced. I'm thinking it is designed that way but need confirmation.
Thank you.
Like Alan said. The pinion looks normal. I may have a couple worn ones around. I'll post a picture if I do.
Larry
Thought I had one from a tranx but this one from a Okuma will show you how much wear occurs. When pinions are worn like this they "hop" under load meaning it will slip out and spin 90 or 180 degrees in this case and engage again. Here's one compared to a new pinion
Thanks for all the info. I spoke with the customer after reading Larry's reply. It seems the clutch handle is not jumping back and locking into free spool as he had indicated. It is his wife's reel. She said it is "hopping" out of gear when a fish strikes then re locking back in after 90 to 180 degree's of turning. This goes along with Larry's input. So feel confident the problem is a worn pinion gear. These reels get used a lot and typically the Chinook landed are of good size and weight. Coupled with the way the clutch was being used I think it may be causing premature wear of the pinion gear.
Again thanks for all the input. I know I can always count on the community here on Alan's website to offer insight into reel repair problems.
Steve
Quote from: Lunker Larry on September 26, 2019, 04:28:49 PM
Thought I had one from a tranx but this one from a Okuma will show you how much wear occurs. When pinions are worn like this they "hop" under load meaning it will slip out and spin 90 or 180 degrees in this case and engage again. Here's one compared to a new pinion
The Shimano pinion does not look like this. This is the type of pinion that will slip like you explained. See the pic of the tekota pinion it has a cross pin that goes into a slot. My take is the clutch mechanism is messed up and not engaging the pinion to the spool correctly
I've seen this on tekotas and Abu Revo Toro winch
If I understand the issue, I've seen this fairly often on Penn 340s and 345s. People shift them into free spool when there is a lot of pressure on the reel. The result is that the shoulder on the spool shaft wears down just enough to let the pinion gear slip under pressure. If the pinion gear looks good, examine the spool carefully. Another possibility: If the spacer behind the left side end bearing is missing, the spool may be shifting to the left and allowing the pinion gear to slip on the spool.
I'm very late on this. Sorry, I lost track of my posts. LOL.. Anyway, it was the pinion gear. Replaced the pinion and the main gear on the two reels this customer uses that were having the slippage problem. Both are working very well now and have been since my last post.
Just get them to stop the spool with their thumb before engaging the reel and they will not have an issue.
Glad you figured things out.
I fish these Takotas for Chinook almost exclusively on my boat. Having a well greased CF drag system allows me to use the star to be very precise in control of the line release and drag setting once my desired depth is achieved I just tighten the star to the desired drag and engage the clicker. Drag setting for king Salmon is pretty low 2.5-3lbs is all I use, then adjust up or down depending on the fish. Using the lever to control depth under freespool while trolling is in my opinion not a good practice, more of an invitation for future reel trouble. I have never had an issue with my tekotas and they have put a lot of fish on the deck. Love those little things, I especially like the 300s narrow frame and their new version is even more awesome.