Guys, I missed my Canadian fishing trip this year due to Covid shutting down the US/Canada border so a friend of mine and I are going on a muskie charter this Saturday. I would love to use my favorite red Ambassadeur 5000, made around 1962, but I'm a little concerned about damaging it. Not as a result of it paying out a lot of line for a huge fish, but rather the heavy tackle. According to the charter captain, a lot of what they throw are large plastics like Bull Dawgs and Medusas that weigh 7-8 ounces each. They do throw some spoons and bucktails but mainly the larger soft plastics. What do you guys think: will I damage my reel by throwing these large lures? I don't know the design intent of the Abu engineers back in the day, but they were probably thinking much smaller lures. Seems to me that as long as I am careful to thumb the spool correctly and don't engage the spool before the lure hits the water I won't overload the gear train. The reel is stock, so the gear ratio is low enough to pull these big lures through the water. The charter captain is completely fine with putting my reel on his pole, so I only have to be concerned about the reel. I flagged the subject line of this post as semi-urgent because I leave this Friday to pick up my friend from the airport and I'll need a couple days to carve time out of the schedule to chase down some 80-100 lb braid (recommended by the captain) if I'm going to use my own reel. I've seen pictures of some of the fish that people have caught with this charter (family friends and coworkers) and they do very well so the chances are very good that I'll catch a musky-of-a-lifetime. Thanks in advance for any advice.
Casting will not be your problem but winching in a Monster and Retrieving or Trolling the Half Pound Weight will certainly wear on the Gears . Although they can be Replaced I think I would rather use a bigger Reel for the Job of catching what you say May be The Catch Of A LIFTIME and take a good chance of not only Losing the Fish but also destroying your Favorite Reel in the Same Moment .
You can always TELL people you caught the Monster on the 5000. ;D
I would not be afraid , as long as the drags are good catch that musky of a lifetime ...
The reel's drag washer/washers are really not up to fighting larger fish.
Quote from: oldmanjoe on October 05, 2021, 12:38:10 PM
I would not be afraid , as long as the drags are good catch that musky of a lifetime ...
True Dat.
Huge Fish have been landed with light gear on 6 pound test . No Fear for me either but I have plenty of parts to rebuild what ever will or could break from chunking a 1/2 pound jig with a 3oz rig .
Heck Yeah go for it if you want the Glory and can afford another Lifetime Trip IF something should go awry.
I don't think that 5000 will hold a lot of 100 pound braid to spool off when you Hook a Big one though ......Just sayin . ;D
GOOD LUCK with what ever you decide and post some pix of the Monster when you lay in to it.
Thanks fellas for all the advice so far. They offer either a casting trip or trolling trip and I chose the casting trip because I want to feel the hookset and the chance to have a monster smash the lure at the boat, do figure 8's, etc. So we won't be trolling, only casting.
I know guys often use a 6000 series reel for muskie, but under the hood they are the same (I'm referring to this vintage...the newer reels have a stack of drag washers plus bearings) so the main advantage is line capacity.
Wompus Cat, my grandfather landed a 40-something inch inch musky at LOTW in Ontario in the 1970's using an Abu 270 spincast reel with 8 or 10 pound mono. My dad raised it and to this day I love hearing the story when we stand around and look at that monster on the wall. I rebuild all my reels, and I have spare parts to replace anything that would break. If I had to replace a gear or drag washer, that's ok, but I don't want to bend the spool axle or tweak the reel's frame. That would ruin the day for me. If I get a lunker and it smokes the drag washer, then I'll probably hang the toasted washer on the wall. LoL
Long as you don't hang sumpin like this you will probablly be OK.
(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/vQfLRuwcWfRp4sNxECi4FQ--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjt3PTk2MDtoPTEyODA-/https://s.yimg.com/uu/api/res/1.2/TVZGDBT4C_Z4jnGUBzBJGg--~B/aD0xNTAwO3c9MTEyNTthcHBpZD15dGFjaHlvbg--/https://media.zenfs.com/en/people_218/9359c27d02dd1aeb331c08420588dccd)
Post some pics when you get back and again GOOD LUCK!
I feel you will be plenty good fishing musky on your 5000. I do a lot of musky reels being in proximity to Lake St Clair, everything from the old classics like yours to the more contemporary C3 and C4 are very popular among musky fishermen. The only failures I have seen are with the people running the newer C4s with the 6.3 gears. Those don't hold up well throwing high resistance baits like double cowgirls and such. Some of the most hardcore musky anglers will go through a set of gears every couple of seasons or so fishing those kinds of baits. The 5.3 gears, as well as the older 4.7 and 3.8 gears found in the older Ambassadeurs are much stronger as they have larger teeth. The only downside is you'll be reeling like a madman burning bucktails and such. With all of that said, I typically suggest to customers of mine to swap in the 5.3 gears, and as of yet, have one to come in sounding like a coffee grinder. The 5.3s aren't that much slower than the 6.3 gears, but those 4.7 and 3.8 gears are a good amount slower.
It isn't the fish that should be of concern, but the baits being used. A lot of the salmon fishermen here use Ambassadeurs as well, and those big 30lb+ kings can really make your drag scream, much more so than the lazy by comparison musky. One suggestion I'd like to make. Consider replacing your line guide with the newer titanium line guide. The older chromed brass guides don't hold up well to modern superlines, and the titanium part is a direct swap.
Quote from: Wompus Cat on October 05, 2021, 02:36:25 PM
Long as you don't hang sumpin like this you will probablly be OK.
(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/vQfLRuwcWfRp4sNxECi4FQ--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjt3PTk2MDtoPTEyODA-/https://s.yimg.com/uu/api/res/1.2/TVZGDBT4C_Z4jnGUBzBJGg--~B/aD0xNTAwO3c9MTEyNTthcHBpZD15dGFjaHlvbg--/https://media.zenfs.com/en/people_218/9359c27d02dd1aeb331c08420588dccd)
Post some pics when you get back and again GOOD LUCK!
That sturgeon was caught right outside of my in-law's house on the Detroit River. I'd have loved to be the guy to land that one.
Wompus Cat, that's a monster sturgeon. I don't think I'll have the pleasure of hooking into something that big!
TinCanary, guess what? I live on the opposite side of the state than you and I'll actually be fishing on Lake St. Clair. : ) Good tip on the line guide...I wasn't aware that the originals don't hold up well to braided line. I'll make a note of that but I won't have time to do it before this weekend.
Quote from: Walleye Guy on October 05, 2021, 06:38:03 PM
Wompus Cat, that's a monster sturgeon. I don't think I'll have the pleasure of hooking into something that big!
TinCanary, guess what? I live on the opposite side of the state than you and I'll actually be fishing on Lake St. Clair. : ) Good tip on the line guide...I wasn't aware that the originals don't hold up well to braided line. I'll make a note of that but I won't have time to do it before this weekend.
This time of year, go fish the flats near Algonac by the mouth of the St Clair River, lots of muskies and big pike in there, plus lots of giant smallmouth that also hit musky sized baits. Right now should be really good because most have put their tuna boats up for the season. During summer, it quickly becomes jammed with tuna boats so we usually get off the water about noon.
Thanks for that tip, I'll mention it to the guide. We have an Airbnb rented on the north of the lake and are supposed to text the captain on Friday to find out where to meet him. I called him yesterday but he said he's watching the weather and will know on Friday where we'll meet Saturday morning.
Quote from: Walleye Guy on October 05, 2021, 07:14:29 PM
Thanks for that tip, I'll mention it to the guide. We have an Airbnb rented on the north of the lake and are supposed to text the captain on Friday to find out where to meet him. I called him yesterday but he said he's watching the weather and will know on Friday where we'll meet Saturday morning.
Saturday looks like it'll shape up well for your trip. I'm hoping to get on some steelhead from a local river that morning, but the water temp is unseasonably warm right now. If that doesn't happen I might hit the St Clair River with my friend for sturgeon, just sold him a couple of nice 7000 C3s last night just for that. He has been bugging me to go sturgeon fishing lately. If you post on Michigan Sportsman you've probably seen his posts of the dinosaurs he has been getting.
I fish muskie and repair muskie reels primarily. I'm a member of Muskies Canada and have caught a dozen or so over 50" with the biggest at 57". My buddy caught a 59" with a 34" girth. With that girth that would have been recognized as a live release world record if you just happen to have all the stuff in your boat they say to have to prove it.
The 5000 comes from an age when a big muskie bait was a Mepps Muskie Killer. Throwing medusas, Bulldawgs, Bondies, heavy weighted baits or big blades will kill it. Yes they have a lower gear ratio but the internals will not stand up to it. The ABU 6500 was pretty much the only reel everyone was using 20+ years ago but there wasn't much else and I don't see them anymore. If you want to use your 500 you could probably get away with using it on a jerk bait rod. Throwing Sledges and Suicks or glide baits should be OK with it but I wouldn't push it.
Muskie reels evolved to accommodate the baits being used. The fish haven't changed. The big ones still straighten out hooks and split rings.
I would suggest doing a little perusing of muskie sites or check out Muskies Inc in the US as they have lots of info on their site. You don't want to be the narrator of that story about the one that got away.
Larry
Larry, I'd always read / heard growing up the muskie guys use 7000's. What is the reel of choice these days? Seems like a Revo Toro or such may work.
The older 7000s were a really sturdy reel and if you have one it's worthwhile to upgrade the drag to CF. Again, like the 6500s they've fallen out of favor. I know of only one dinosaur that still uses them. (I still have one and a 6500) The newer Chinese 7000i internally doesn't look anything like the original Swedish reels. In my opinion they don't compare to the newer reels plus they don't have a line counter that I'm aware of.
Revo Toro Winch 60 or Beast are made for Muskie. Daiwa Lexa 400 Okuma 364, Tranx 400 are all good casting reels.
Lunker Larry, these two statement from you make a lot of sense to me:
1. The 5000 comes from an age when a big muskie bait was a Mepps Muskie Killer.
2. Muskie reels evolved to accommodate the baits being used.
Maybe I'll take it along and only use it if we end up throwing smaller bucktails, Suicks, glide baits, etc.
If you have room on the boat, you could rig two outfits - one big lure, one small lure. and switch off every now and then.
I have only done a bit of pike and muskie fishing, and all on the fly, but smaller flies were recommended to me for late season when the bite got slow, and I defitely did better going small with 4 inch black rabbit leaches. Decent fish up to the meter mark, but no behemoths. Not nearly enough fishing days to prove a pattern.
Curious if there are gear guys in the know that go real small, and in what conditions.
-J
Well, I figured I owe you guys an update. I decided to leave my favorite 5000 home...mainly because of the two statements above from Lunker Larry. In the end, I'm glad I did because our guide's tackle consisted of huge soft plastics that ranged from 7 - 24 ounces. He instructed us to do a lot of jerking on the rod while retrieving and that probably would have been too much for my 5000. Unfortunately, at the end of the day there were no fish in the boat. My buddy and I both had a follow but by mid morning the weather had turned very warm and the wind died so we were fishing under bluebird skies and a croaking hot sun. Throughout the day our guide was in constant communication with other guides and no one had a good day. Next time, though...