I just finished fermenting my Soppressata. I is now in the drying phase.
Mike
MAN that looks good!
I'm on my way Mike, .... Lou
the man's got skills.......
Mike!!!
You taking orders???
The San Joaquin Valley is a 2 hr. drive from San Mateo,
I'll have my ice chest in hand!!!!
Wayne
I have 20lbs of Nduja ready for casings. Then next I want a try at real pepperoni.
Mike
Mike , how long does soppressata cure for and at what temp?
Best,
Jonathan
It ferments for 15 hours at 85 degrees 90% humidity. Then I check the ph to make sure the starter is working. Then its dried at 60 degeees at 55% humidity. I keep the humidity around 65 myself. It keeps it from drying to fast. It takes aroung a month to make.
Mike
Mike has Mad Skills ;D
BT
That insane.
I thought making beer and wine was a hassle.......
Can't wait to try it.
I buy the meat ahead of time. Then cut it up and separate the fat from the muscle. Then freeze it long enough to kill anything in the meat. Since the meat is not cooked it is bettrr to be safe than sorry. Each type takes a different grind and process. Spices are measured with a gram scale to be spot on. Even the type of salt makes a difference in flavor. The most important part is food safety.
Mike
That looks good Mike. You learn something everyday.
They always told me not to use meat for curing that has previously been frozen.
I grew up with this stuff in Italy, I've been here 40 years and still give it a shot every once in a while.
They are still following the traditions there, most raise their own pig and butcher it around February.
The best sausages I had to date are from my brother-in- law, he uses wild boar with pork belly mixed in.
I also noticed your soppressata is round, the word soppressata means pressed.
We usually line them up between two planks when fresh and press them using a couple of ton of pressure. This gets done for about a week, it will flatted them a bit and get the juices out.
Looks like you know what you're doing, they look great but of course I can't comment on taste yet ;D.
Thanks for showing us how you do it.
Sal
This is great stuff guys. Thanks.
Quote from: Alto Mare on May 25, 2018, 10:42:43 AM
That looks good Mike. You learn something everyday.
They always told me not to use meat for curing that has previously been frozen.
I grew up with this stuff in Italy, I've been here 40 years and still give it a shot every once in a while.
They are still following the traditions there, most raise their own pig and butcher it around February.
The best sausages I had to date are from my brother-in- law, he uses wild boar with pork belly mixed in.
I also noticed your soppressata is round, the word soppressata means pressed.
We usually line them up between two planks when fresh and press them using a couple of ton of pressure. This gets done for about a week, it will flatted them a bit and get the juices out.
Looks like you know what you're doing, they look great but of course I can't comment on taste yet ;D.
Thanks for showing us how you do it.
Sal
Yes it's suppose to be pressed but I'm lazy and it's just for looks. I use fresh meat for coppa and whole meats but not salami.
Mike
Mike those look sensational. Mouth watering. Keep posting photos. do you have info on your curing chamber?? Dominick
My tongue is about to beat my brains out! 8)
I have to ask...
What is your percent salt per lb of meat?
Your degree hours of fermentation are low? Which starter are you using and what is your final pH after fermentation??
What is your desired water activity after drying?
The pressing is actually important for facilitating uniform drying to the core to facilitate a 5 log kill of E. coli and trichinae.
Freezing won't kill the most virulent pathogens such as listeria, salmonella and/or E.coli. If frozen cold and long enough, you can destroy trichinae but not likely in a home freezer.
I have inspected many fermented sausage places in my time and had a few people want me dead, so I am not busting your chops here, I am actually well versed in this.
Proper fermentation keeps Staphylococcus from producing toxin and drying destroy E.coli and prevents the growth of other pathogens.
Listeria is your big ticket pathogen here as you need to control that ahead of time, it will survive the process.
Feel free to private message me if you want to keep your recipe secret.
First the curing chamber is made by sausage makers. The recipe called for 15 hours. I let it go a few more than that because I was still at work. Then I tested the ph drop to below 5.5 ph. The usual time is 24-48hours but I try to follow the recipes very close with the salt and cure 1 or 2. I use recipes from Len Poli he has allot of good recipes. I used a LHP starter for this Salami but I use several others depending on what the recipe calls for. Everthing is measured with a gram scale. Salt is a must because all the different types you can buy. I only use proven recipes because it is easier to tweek a recipe that's already proven. The curing chamber take allot of the work out of the process. Very little chance of something going bad. The percent of water loss is around 30% of its weight. Your right freezing only kills trichinae if you get it cold enough. I buy the meat ahead of time and it's frozen up to a month until I have time to plan my next project. It grinds better when it's still frozen part way. Allot of recipes call for it to be frozen over a month.
Mike
Here is the recipe I used.
Mike
Mike,
Most process authorities who create scheduled processes call for a pH reduction to 5.3 before drying. USDA calls for a pH of 5.0 before drying. This is for Staph control during drying. Be sure to use distilled water in a ground up slurry for your pH test and use the buffers before each test.
I see that you are soaking your meat in vinegar. This is a good thing as it helps reduce surface listeria and will help achieve a reduced pH during fermentation by a slight acidification. I have seen some use a 30 second dip in boiling water for large chunks and then trimming the outer layer away. This will also minimize lactic acid bacteria competition when adding the starter culture.
Everything matters in relation to fermented sausage production. Even the size of the grind size. If you have a lab nearby, see what your final water activity levels are. They need to be 0.85 or less for pathogenic control.
I only soak the casings to prevent mold. There is a thing called overkill and what you are saying is just that. I follow strick guidlines but you can only do so much before it becomes just waste of time. Ph strips is all they call for. I have all the stuff at work if I wanted to test with a meter but I think that it isn't needed. The web site I get my information from he is a micro biologist that has his own sausage company. Also he worked as a advisor to a sausage company in San Francisco. He is more than qulified to give out information.
Mike
I have sampled product at many places doing fermented sausage production. pH meters are a must as the strips get covered in fat and aren't reliable as well as having a limited color range . Proper usage of the pH meter is also a big issue.
Many fermented sausage places I have been to have had Listeria monocytogenes recalls which I was part of as well as recalls for inadequate pH reduction (bad fermentation) and inadequate drying (aW-water activity) which I was part of. I have had my fare share of press releases before holidays.
There is no such thing as overkill when dealing with a product that has no heat treatment and solely using fermentation and drying for control of pathogens. When dealing with dry fermented sausages, everything matters individually and together as a whole.
Man you have issues don't you.
Mike
Quote from: mikeysm on May 31, 2018, 01:44:12 AM
Man you have issues don't you.
Mike
I will eat anything you make Mike...Everything you have made has been perfect. Thank you for what you do.
Tim
Thanks Tim
Mike
Mike I have much respect for you and your methods.
We have had several conversations about process and processing and your approach to the craft of meat preservation is second to none. Your technical approach makes me look like a piker.
My education is only a BS in Biochem but I am sophisticated enough to trust your products and you instill enough confidence that I can eat them in complete safety.
Cannot wait to try the soppressata.......
Best ,
Jonathan
No, I have no issues.
Just want to look out for fellow members who haven't spent many years in regulatory food safety.
I have been part of large scale outbreak investigations, been part of illness investigations, been part of large scale recalls and been part of investigations related to foodborne deaths.
I have seen what happens when people process foods using advanced processing techniques without knowing all the pathogens and the critical factors associated with controlling them.
BTW, not looking to insult anyone here.... E.coli, Staph and Listeria all can kill people without proper control.
Thanks guys for the good words. I don't make this stuff for money. Just to enjoy the different types of cured meats. The stuff you buy just doesn't cut it with me. It is so regulated no one can run a shop and make money and produce a quality product. I can control my process and use quality meat. I make small batches for better control. Its hard to beat the old world recipes also. Time tested and proven. I will tweek it for my tastes but that all. I sometimes have failures but they are rare. I had over 25 year to learn from my mistakes. The most important thing is keep your equipment clean.
Mike
That looks great Mike. :P
I am no expert whatsoever is doing this, but I would love to try some. ;D
Quote from: mo65 on May 25, 2018, 05:52:17 PM
My tongue is about to beat my brains out! 8)
I agree I want to see the finish d product, I have had the pleasure of trying a few of mikes creations, everyone of them was absolutely delicious.
I think it's important to recognize that government regulations are always of the strictest control possible.
Millions of people rely on them to insure that products available to them are of the highest level of food safety. We see it on the news all the time, food safety recalls. I have read accounts of folks making home made food goods and inadvertently killing people. Imagine you go to church social and scoop out a spoonful of tater salad and the next day your in the hospital and the next day your dead. Had the salad been a commercial product, there would be lawsuits and he'll to pay.
There just so much going on with cured meats that it pays to go as far as you can to understand and practice proven methods. Mike is the only person I know that has spent years and years doing this. I trust his methods and would never hesitate to enjoy eating anything he created. I believe he fully understands what he's doing and the ramifications of sharing a product that might be unsafe. Anything even questionable never gets past and certainly never gets shared. His understanding is far beyond mine. I hope he keeps it up, keeps sharing both his knowledge base and his creations. Love em!
And I hope jigmaster keeps an eye on all of us! His experience is invaluable. I thank you for your insights.
Let's all keep a little perspective on these things. If you're going to can or preserve fish or meats you can never have to much knowledge. With these things it could be a matter of life or death.
Now rock on and show me the money shot!
Just a few more weeks David and it will be ready to eat. The new protein lined casings I am using looks like a winner.
Mike
I may have to make a visit to the valley!
Quote from: mikeysm on May 24, 2018, 03:44:48 PM
I just finished fermenting my Soppressata. I is now in the drying phase.
Mike
Drooling over here!