Reel Repair by Alan Tani

I don't know much about the Mirade of rod blanks available for Ulua fishing, so I thought I'd start a poll.  

Not looking for opinions on best wrappers (past and present), guides, wraps, spacing, seats, or styles...

Just wondering what you think are the best overall rod blanks for targeting monster Ulua (GT) from shore (in the ~13'/medium-heavy/fast action class?)

and why if you chose.

Cum on Ulua Hunta and friends, please share your expertise.

I got Talon's and All-Stars.
Talons feel light and stout to me. All-Star's are heavy duty, thick and durable.
IRW's are very popular too, but never tried a heavy action yet.

Made in the USA... Seeker!

CTS Blanks out of New Zealand.  I have a few and love them.

Huh,
I didn't know All-Star made anything for surf fishing. I have several for in shore stuff. I whip mostly, so I can't really submit an opinion.
Ron

I'm old school. Fenwick 16810 and Saber 540.

Ive seen Seeker Ula rods, they look impressive!

Leo

You can't go wrong with the Seeker John. ;)

All of my ulua casting rods were glass/bamboo "half and halfs".  They were great.  Then I got a couple of Sabre 540s and they were good too, but heavier than the half and halfs and not as sensitive.  Then I tried graphite and hated them because they were entirely too delicate.  Now I'm back to glass boat rods with a 3' aluminum butt (total length is about 7 or 8 feet).  Casts far enough for me, and pulling the fish in is so much easier.  Wish I had done that when I was really into it, but caved in to "conventional wisdom" of using a longer rod since I believed everyone else couldn't be wrong.  My only 7' rod at the time did cast fine and was great for pulling in very large ulua.  I used it only a few times and gave up on it still thinking that I was missing something with a rod that was so short.  The reality was likely that I did miss lots of very large ulua that I couldn't pull up with the longer rods.

QuoteI have also  owned the half and half, 540 sabre's and the fenwick 16810. They were all great in their days.
Technology takes over.

I still use "old school" and that is why my name is Makule.

what lure are you casting ??

???

how heavy are the fishies?

Just guessing but I would start by modifying  a extra-heavy swimbait rod from okuma guide select IM8 7'11''
if the fish are under 20#, and  use a Penn squall 15 set the magnet 1/2 way
and toss a 3 0z megabait in green/gold ?? probably get 100 yard cast with that set up..  ;)

If you cast a mega-bait 100 yards around most of Hawaii you will feed the reef a lot of Mega-Baits.
Ron

Rocks?
Then change it for a ranger
Bring it on top

By the way, my favorite and still favorite Ulua rod for 40# test was a Fenwick Live Bait rod that was 10' long, extra fast action, and extended with a 4-5' 1" Diam. this aluminum butt.  Light, easy to cast, and could use is many different environment...just not the 60# or 80# main line that I used to cast.  I was hoping I could have purchased it from my friend's dad, but that was his ulua rod and would not give it up. :(

Quote from: Bryan Young on February 12, 2014, 08:00:59 PM
By the way, my favorite and still favorite Ulua rod for 40# test was a Fenwick Live Bait rod that was 10' long, extra fast action, and extended with a 4-5' 1" Diam. this aluminum butt.  Light, easy to cast, and could use is many different environment...just not the 60# or 80# main line that I used to cast.  I was hoping I could have purchased it from my friend's dad, but that was his ulua rod and would not give it up. :(

Think this was LB1206.  Great rod.  Not for the 100 pounders, but good for up to 50 lb.

BTW Bryan, I loaned my brother an exact rod with a LB 1206 Fenwick blank and an aluminum butt and he let it sit outside. He told me at the time it was outdated and that the graphites were the best things ever! I will ask him if the thing is still good or sun damaged? That and if the reel seat is still okay or corroded out? I am hoping the thing was just left out under the eaves so a little work would get it back into top shape.

Whoops and so sorry Bryan! My brother said the glass was peeling so it apprently was left in the sun and it got UV damaged. He dumped it.  :(

Mahalo Keneke. That's a shame. That was a great rod. I haven't found anything like it.

I found an old  Abu Garcia Conolon, similar to that rod
But I don't know the model number.
It is 9 ft, Aluminium but, Extra fast and I use it to cast surface iron
Like Tady C, and 45 on braided 832 line @50#  magnet  Avet JX
And it is awesome.  I have not seen any other like it, it is one piece
And was rebuild by my buddy Walter, was found in a swap meet
And it was a spinning rod.
Eddie

If it's anything like Fenwick's rod, that would be an awesome rod.

Bryan...
I've actually seen several postings for Fenwicks on HI CL.


16810 13ft
http://honolulu.craigslist.org/oah/spo/4596688480.html

http://honolulu.craigslist.org/oah/spo/4539526857.html

There were some others but I think they've sold already.

are we whipping or sliding Baits?

Sliding.

Quote from: noyb72 on February 12, 2014, 06:20:13 AM
If you cast a mega-bait 100 yards around most of Hawaii you will feed the reef a lot of Mega-Baits.
Ron

how long do you have to cast on Hawaii to be considered as a good cast (and good oportunity to catch something)?



- Alex

Hi Alex, if you are casting bait, 75 yards is good. Slide bait, 75 to 150 yards. But fish roam around so you never know.

Another very important thing to know is the casting style. I have watched Hawaiian guys with budget rods make incredible cast purely on casting technique. My buddy with a 13' Nitro just amazes me with his casting ability.

I would be looking for a 2 piece Fast action 40lb rod of about 10"6' that can cast 3 to 4 oz plugs and pair it with a Shimano Trinidad TN16 and 0.6mm mono.

Could be a Popping rod but more likely a beach rod for the length.   Any reputable blank maker will do, but I also like the NZ CTS.

Quote from: steelfish on May 13, 2016, 05:05:34 PM

Quote from: noyb72 on February 12, 2014, 06:20:13 AM
If you cast a mega-bait 100 yards around most of Hawaii you will feed the reef a lot of Mega-Baits.
Ron

how long do you have to cast on Hawaii to be considered as a good cast (and good oportunity to catch something)?



- Alex

A lot depends on the island you're fishing and the spot you are at. Then, too, positioning is just as important, (if not more so), than distance.

But distance is a good weapon to have in your arsenal and use as needed.

I've caught ulua on "dump shot" casts of only 10-20 yds.--as well as the long bombs.

Here in town there is a river with a bridge positioned at an angle across both banks.

Local casters standing upriver often use it as a marker to practice their casting, as the center of the bridge is about 115 yds. from where they stand.

If you can cast over the bridge at any point--using the Big Island standard of 80-100lb. mono and a 6/0 reel--then you would be considered an extremely proficient slide-bait distance caster, easily in the top 10 percent.

Most casters (including myself) fall a bit under that mark.

P.S.
These casts are made with only a bare 9-12oz. sinker and heavy leader rigged for slide-bait fishing. As such there is no added drag as encountered when casting the same equipment rigged "8 and bait style".

Hi All,

Some thoughts that come to mind about this quest for a specific rod/blank. We have similar issue here in south west Africa, not for GT's but sharks, where distance for casting, against fighting power of the blank is a factor.

The first big factor is 'which type of reel', as an optimum rod specifically designed for multipliers might well have a stiffer carbon composition than one for fixed spool reels. And as our recent change in competition styles have shown fixed spool reels and rods are more than capable of fishing the surf for big species. Though with optimum fixed spool rod blanks we are using more mixtures of carbons strengths in the make-up, rather than single high strength carbons for specifically multiplier rods.

The point being that we achieve greatest distances with longer rods – up to 14-15' or more, however that puts a huge leverage factor against the angler, even when using the rods in a reel down position and a rod belt on the angler. Then shorter rods will reduce the leverage factor, but distance will suffer, with the added problem that sliding is in the equation, and a rod/blank with a tip section 'too stiff' will suffer from continually pulling the sinker when sliding heavy baits, as historically 'sliding' rods/blanks had a slightly softer tip for that aspect.

So, in conclusion to your problem you have to find the best compromise in a scale between 11' and 15' depending on your priorities, and reel type. We have built some absolute 'stump puller' style shark rods on a special 1 piece 11' blank which will very happily cast a combined sinker and bait combinations of over 1lb, over 150 metres – high strength carbon blank for multipliers, and it really does exert huge power on the hooked up sharks, with some anglers managing to use up to 14+kgs (30lb+) of drag through their reels. A similar blank, but for the travelling angler, we have built as a 3 piece 12', though only a little down on casting weight, seems to have the edge in distances achievable. Then on a more conventional level, 13 or 14' 3 piece rods that are happiest with 12oz of payload, built for fixed spool reels with braid dropping at about 180 metres.

As one of the other posters brought up, casting technique is also a huge factor, as well as the physical strength of the angler concerned. And there lies one of the biggest issues, as 'ego' does drive a lot of anglers to buy something way too powerful, to the point that they can't actually motivate the rods during the cast – then blame the rod.

We generally have blanks built for us by a local carbon specialist, but also have a few European designs that have worked very well, with one in particular that is being used in Mozambique, specifically sliding for GTs in the 40-50kg range. That blank is 14' long, but does use a number of different carbon strength in the layup, to actually finish with a very serious rod – one that we don't take responsibility for the anglers future physiotherapy treatments = for dislocated shoulders!!

Hope that helps.

Cheers from sunny Africa


Jeri

Choosing a rod for a particular job is a trade off between a number of requirements.   Casting 130 meters when fishing for GT is very nice, but usually requires a longer heavier rod which becomes unwieldy when fishing with lures, often needing quick accurate casts towards where the fish were seen.   Besides being heavy on the body, a long rod like that is often not the ideal tool for pulling strong fish either, as Jeri also says.

For that reason I would take two rigs with me when presented with a situation where longer casts may be required, one shorter lighter rod that can easily cast 90mt at a rate of 100 casts per hour and one heavier for the 130 mt distances when required.    I actually fish like that, with both rods ready and rigs can be changed within seconds.

I use an American Tackle AXSU110M-2 for three to four ounces.  Eleven feet, medium fact action, medium power, 40 lb braid on a Squidder.  It loads and casts nicely but that's about all I can handle these days.

We have an old no-name fiberglass rod spliced to a four foot aluminum extension.  Thirteen plus feet, good for eight or ten ounces, 50 lb mono on Senator 3/0.  It's been hanging in the rafters for over a decade.  Made for ulua but never caught anything noteworthy.

As I recall the Talon and Tica received the most votes on another board.  Not much participation though.
-steve

Quote from: Bryan Young on May 15, 2016, 10:13:32 AM
Hi Alex, if you are casting bait, 75 yards is good. Slide bait, 75 to 150 yards. But fish roam around so you never know.

well I was asking because I didnt get this comment too clear

Quote from: noyb72 on February 12, 2014, 06:20:13 AM
If you cast a mega-bait 100 yards around most of Hawaii you will feed the reef a lot of Mega-Baits.
Ron

so, 100yds are you still casting on the shore rocks but not much into the fish zone?






BTW, i need to try Slide bait someday, there are few zones here that could use slide bait technique

Quote from: oc1 on May 16, 2016, 08:21:40 AM
I use an American Tackle AXSU110M-2 for three to four ounces.  Eleven feet, medium fact action, medium power, 40 lb braid on a Squidder.  It loads and casts nicely but that's about all I can handle these days.

We have an old no-name fiberglass rod spliced to a four foot aluminum extension.  Thirteen plus feet, good for eight or ten ounces, 50 lb mono on Senator 3/0.  It's been hanging in the rafters for over a decade.  Made for ulua but never caught anything noteworthy.

As I recall the Talon and Tica received the most votes on another board.  Not much participation though.
-steve

Well we've something in Common, I had a friend of mine bring me two blanks, during a visit to the US in December 2011.
AXSU100M-2   10'   2   MEDIUM   MOD-FAST   15-30 lb
AXSU110H-2   11'   2   HEAVY   MOD-FAST   20-40 lb

The lighter one I made in to a very successful light casting boat rod, and the heavier one in to a shore casting rod.

I fish with my conventional reel situated 15 cm from the rear, on my back hand and had to beef up the rear section of both rods as I don't want them to bend much in the Butt part.
The lighter one is an extremely versatile caster and can happily cast as light as 50 gr and up to 110 gr using a Pen Fathom 25n and 0.45mm mono. 

The heavier one I find slightly underpowered on the cast, but nevertheless a very easy forgiving rod to play with and comfortably casts 110 grams.

Both have caught many Yellowtail.

BTW, despite the name tag on the blank, the one had a sticker on it "product of ROC".....   ;D ;D

Quote from: steelfish on May 16, 2016, 06:12:21 PM

Quote from: Bryan Young on May 15, 2016, 10:13:32 AM
Hi Alex, if you are casting bait, 75 yards is good. Slide bait, 75 to 150 yards. But fish roam around so you never know.

well I was asking because I didnt get this comment too clear

Quote from: noyb72 on February 12, 2014, 06:20:13 AM
If you cast a mega-bait 100 yards around most of Hawaii you will feed the reef a lot of Mega-Baits.
Ron

so, 100yds are you still casting on the shore rocks but not much into the fish zone?






BTW, i need to try Slide bait someday, there are few zones here that could use slide bait technique

On some islands the reef can extend far out, which is what Ron is probably referring to when saying that a distance cast in that spot will end up with the entire rig getting caught up on the reef. Likewise in deeper waters, if you cast too far, your line will end up going over the drop-off--an almost vertical underwater cliff as the Hawaiian Islands have no gently sloping shelf, but are rather mountain-tops rising thousands of feet from the seafloor.  

The sandy pockets and channels that are spaced throughout the reef are better spots to cast to--if one knows where they happen to be. Diving a spot (if possible) really helps as it shows you the underwater terrain and where to best locate your line so it isnt crossing over the reef, or getting caught up on it.

A 100 yd. cast using Hawaiian-style ulua fishing gear is very good and well into the "fishable" zone for most spots here. Even so, not all areas will afford the luxury of simply aiming for the horizon and letting it fly. Some are too dangerous to use a full-on power cast. i.e, the uneven rocky terrain high above the water does not allow one the right footing and balance in order to do so.

Cor, Americans are not allowed to make stuff any more.

Thanks to input here from your fellow countrymen, I tried the lower-hand reel position.  Actually, it was when I was figuring out what to do with the aforementioned Amer Tackle blank.  I thought the hand positions were going to feel weird but they did not.  However, it was surprising to learn how dumb and slow to respond my left thumb is.  It has no idea what to feel for or what to do.  The cast control knob had to be turned down to avoid a third epic birds nest.  One really good thing about the lower-hand reel position is that the rod balances easily and very nicely without an extra long handle or adding weight at the butt cap.  It would be worth learning how to cast all over again..... but not right now.

I like a rod that bends all the way into the butt.  With a deck hand type cord handle and reel seat you feel it all.
-steve

Hi Guys,

A couple of points.

First, have found that whenever folks reach the shoreline, and have sand between their toes, or rocks inthe case of Hawaii - they always want 'more distance'. This quest for distance is not just restricted to launching baits to the horizon, but an indication of what can be achieved with the right blanks. As we can all cast with slightly less enthusiasm to reduce the distances cast with a longer distance casting rod, but try and gaina  few extra years with a shorted distance casting rod is really difficult.

Secondly, and I hate generalisations, but here goes - American styles of surf blanks tend to be very through action, right down to the bottom, which is what they seem to prefer. European styles of blanks tend to have very stiff bottom sections with nearly all the bend in the top half. While southern African styles tended to be somewhere between the two, until a couple of years ago, when there was a change in style that allowed for slightly stiffer bottom half or third of the rod blanks.

None of these designs are wrong per se, but the Europeans have found that for better distance their design style does generate more power during the cast. However, with the sothern African style needing by design to handle bigger fish or sharks, the through action concept is too soft, so their designs were a compromise between pure distance, and the ability to fight bigger fish. A case for designing to suit the prevailing conditions of the general masses, rather than specilist designs.

We have built a number of surf rods on American style blanks, but always found then to be quite 'soft' in casting, and reluctant to really load, maybe it is just our casting style? That said we are now seeinga lot of inquiries for our style of blanks/rods for American customers that are looking to challenge bigger fish and sharks from the shore.

Cheers from sunny Africa.

Jeri

What I find interesting is that US fly rods in all the big brands are cutting edge technology and usually lightning fast, especially the saltwater fly rods which are paired with ultra modern large arbor fly reels, but it seems others facets of shore based angling still prefer to use floppy rods with not the best casting reels and would even still consider using fiber glass rods instead of carbon? Why is this? Or do the folks on AT just generally prefer older tackle and I am getting a warped view?

For slide-bait ulua blanks we use mostly Talons and IRW's, both having extremely fast and powerful options in their lineup--especially Talon.

Check out their BCYO69, BCYO64, and BCYO71 blanks...The 71 in particular is a bear of a rod--shutting off in the upper third--but you better have spent a lot of time in the gym if you're going to cast that.

I prefer something more mellow along the lines of the Big Island Special (IRW), and BCYO69.

how do you guys on hawaii or sudafrica consider the rainshador  SUR1505?

I have never built on the SUR1505, but the catalog specs look a lot similar to the older SU1418's. Too light for slide-bait imho, but they excelled at throwing 6-7oz.of lead and a small chunk of bait--although the length is a little on the shorter side for the guys in HI. It's too bad that both the SU and SUR series have since been discontinued.

Chad

Quote from: cbar45 on May 18, 2016, 10:37:55 PM
It's too bad that both the SU and SUR series have since been discontinued.

Chad

yep thats too bad, I have one SUR1505 that I was thinking to sell and get me different brand like the AFAW or CTS rod blank but naah, I better keep it and buying another model later on, although surf fishing is not that good here locally to have 2 long rods.

I can trow 6oz lead with a small chunk of meat really far, never passed the 100mts mark (112 yds) using a saltist 20h

steelfish,

I'm curious as to what type of fish you plan on targeting via slide-bait?

The reason I ask is because slide-baiting--when used to fish for shark or GT--is usually reserved for heavy tackle using very large baits of 2-3lbs. or more that can't otherwise be cast.

But there is no reason the technique can't be scaled down to suit your SUR1505 and Saltist 20h in order to target smaller fish.

I've slid a few smaller live-baits on surf-spinning rods for omilu, (bluefin trevally) up to 10lbs, and it worked really well. There was no danger of the the delicate bait tearing off the hook or bridle during the cast. I was also able to fish the live-bait a bit further out then I normally would--were I to cast it.

Quote from: cbar45 on May 19, 2016, 12:17:22 AM
steelfish,

I'm curious as to what type of fish you plan on targeting via slide-bait?

The reason I ask is because slide-baiting--when used to fish for shark or GT--is usually reserved for heavy tackle using very large baits of 2-3lbs. or more that can't otherwise be cast.

well in my case its just as to try a new technique that has its advantages over the normal surfcasting rig.

after asking in other Surf fishing forum we agree that you will never reach the same distance if casting ONLY a 6oz / 8oz lead like when you go training powercast, OTG, etc, against a real fishing day when casting a 6oz lead + 4oz fishhead or chunk, the aerodinamic law hit you there and lower your distance considerably.

considering that I normally fish from rocks (not high riffs or high rocks like some places in hawaii) I have on my list to try casting 6oz lead and slide a big chunk of meat and see how it works or try live bait too.

my go to rod its a fenwick 10ft 3oz lure, with that rod I can get any of the fish that you can catch on the surf here, not shark or big rays, tho.
the RS rod was bought to go after roosterfish on summer but they not always come to this zones on the north of Baja, the nearest sure zone to go after roosterfish is at 12hrs drive south at La Paz, Baja sur so, not much action for the RS rod lately, I want to try new techniques to keep it busy. ;D

Quote from: oc1 on May 17, 2016, 07:51:35 AM
Cor, Americans are not allowed to make stuff any more.

Thanks to input here from your fellow countrymen, I tried the lower-hand reel position.  Actually, it was when I was figuring out what to do with the aforementioned Amer Tackle blank.  I thought the hand positions were going to feel weird but they did not.  However, it was surprising to learn how dumb and slow to respond my left thumb is.  It has no idea what to feel for or what to do.  The cast control knob had to be turned down to avoid a third epic birds nest.  One really good thing about the lower-hand reel position is that the rod balances easily and very nicely without an extra long handle or adding weight at the butt cap.  It would be worth learning how to cast all over again..... but not right now.

I like a rod that bends all the way into the butt.  With a deck hand type cord handle and reel seat you feel it all.
-steve

Balance is precisely the reason why a rod with the reel at the back is much easier to work with and lighter to cast.    The reel counterbalances the weight of the rod.   If you mount your reel in front of you forward hand position, you are not only having to contend with the weight of the rod and bait when casting, but also the reel.

Once you understand how to control your reel it does not take too long to get accustomed to it.
It took me 2 days to learn to cast ambidextrously and that seems impossible the first time you try it!

The only people that have reels in the forward position here are those using spinning reels, however if I ever were to use a reel like that I would adapt my rod to also have it at the rear.   I experimented with this once and found no good reason why it can not be positioned like that, but perhaps there is a reason ???

If only we had the choice of tackle and blanks that you have in the USA in this end of the world, I would probably have been a hell of a lot poorer ;D

Cor, my first impression was that everything you say is correct.  I just need to devote the time to it.  Can't cast left handed either.

Jeri, that sounds like a business opportunity for someone.

-steve

Quote from: oc1 on May 19, 2016, 05:40:20 AM
Cor, my first impression was that everything you say is correct.  I just need to devote the time to it.  Can't cast left handed either.

Jeri, that sounds like a business opportunity for someone.

-steve

Consider adding mags to your reel till you get the hang of the left hand on the bottom and slowly adjust them as you get better. You really don't need to be a 6ft tall ball of muscle to be able to cast a long, stiff rod and 7-8 oz sinker with reel at the bottom and the correct technique. Start with an off the ground cast till you get the hang of it. A longer sinker drop does a lot to tame a fast rod.

Quote from: steelfish on May 19, 2016, 12:33:18 AM

Quote from: cbar45 on May 19, 2016, 12:17:22 AM
steelfish,

I'm curious as to what type of fish you plan on targeting via slide-bait?

The reason I ask is because slide-baiting--when used to fish for shark or GT--is usually reserved for heavy tackle using very large baits of 2-3lbs. or more that can't otherwise be cast.

well in my case its just as to try a new technique that has its advantages over the normal surfcasting rig.

after asking in other Surf fishing forum we agree that you will never reach the same distance if casting ONLY a 6oz / 8oz lead like when you go training powercast, OTG, etc, against a real fishing day when casting a 6oz lead + 4oz fishhead or chunk, the aerodinamic law hit you there and lower your distance considerably.

considering that I normally fish from rocks (not high riffs or high rocks like some places in hawaii) I have on my list to try casting 6oz lead and slide a big chunk of meat and see how it works or try live bait too.

my go to rod its a fenwick 10ft 3oz lure, with that rod I can get any of the fish that you can catch on the surf here, not shark or big rays, tho.
the RS rod was bought to go after roosterfish on summer but they not always come to this zones on the north of Baja, the nearest sure zone to go after roosterfish is at 12hrs drive south at La Paz, Baja sur so, not much action for the RS rod lately, I want to try new techniques to keep it busy. ;D

Thanks for your reply steelfish. It's good to see people interested in trying out--and perhaps adapting--new techniques to suit their fishing styles/locale, while remaining humble of their own.

Quote from: oc1 on May 19, 2016, 05:40:20 AM
Cor, my first impression was that everything you say is correct.  I just need to devote the time to it.  Can't cast left handed either.

Jeri, that sounds like a business opportunity for someone.

-steve

There are a number of our rods in the uSA as we speak, one in California, one in Texas and another on the way to New Jersey. Discussions on going for one to another corner. The concept of using 'reel down' with either spinner or convensional reels just makes senxe when looking for distance. Just today, testing a new blank and design system, dropping 3oz sinkers to about 130-140 metres over sand. That is just with a short rod, only 12' long, when I get the long rod out for heavier stuff, 6oz and 7oz sinkers are dropping beyong 150-160 metres, and it is basically all down to the designs of the rods and technique, nothing to do with power or body strength, as I'm over 60, and not exactly big built - 140lbs WET!

The point is that during the cast process, the weight of the reel is being pulled down by left arm power and gravity - rather than 'reel up' position, where the caster is wasting power - pushing the reel up through the cast. Small changes make big differences.

Cheers from sunny Africa

Jeri

Quote from: Jeri link=topic=9734.msg190442#msg190442quote author=Jeri link=topic=9734.msg190442#msg190442 date=1463674478]


There are a number of our rods in the uSA as we speak, one in California, one in Texas and another on the way to New Jersey. Discussions on going for one to another corner. The concept of using 'reel down' with either spinner or convensional reels just makes senxe when looking for distance. Just today, testing a new blank and design system, dropping 3oz sinkers to about 130-140 metres over sand. That is just with a short rod, only 12' long, when I get the long rod out for heavier stuff, 6oz and 7oz sinkers are dropping beyong 150-160 metres, and it is basically all down to the designs of the rods and technique, nothing to do with power or body strength, as I'm over 60, and not exactly big built - 140lbs WET!

The point is that during the cast process, the weight of the reel is being pulled down by left arm power and gravity - rather than 'reel up' position, where the caster is wasting power - pushing the reel up through the cast. Small changes make big differences.

Cheers from sunny Africa

Jeri

I understand how some might find it advantageous to cast low-reel while fishing.

I've even built a pair of low-reel rods, (not ulua rods but light surf rods), for my own use, as I was curious and found I could appreciate their benefits.

But, can you explain why both high and low-reel styles are represented in the tournament casting circuit--where pure distance is all that matters?

Are there instances when it's practical to switch to a high-reel style and vice versa? Or should anglers the world over convert to low-reel for all their casting needs, since it works so well for some locales?

This thread was about choosing a blank to slide bait for ulua in Hawaii. It would make sense that such a blank and methods discussed be centered aound that pupose. I would hate for someone to fork over $450 for a custom low-mount slide bait rod--because they read on the internet it was a superior choice--then arrive in the islands and find their new setup is a misery to use on the high rocks.

Quote from: CapeFish on May 18, 2016, 02:46:45 PM
What I find interesting is that US fly rods in all the big brands are cutting edge technology and usually lightning fast, especially the saltwater fly rods which are paired with ultra modern large arbor fly reels, but it seems others facets of shore based angling still prefer to use floppy rods with not the best casting reels and would even still consider using fiber glass rods instead of carbon? Why is this? Or do the folks on AT just generally prefer older tackle and I am getting a warped view?

No idea where the heck you are going with this.

Last I checked this thread was titled "Best Rod Blank for Ulua Shorefishing".

Specifically slide-baiting in Hawaii.

My last word on this and purely a quick opinion.

To cast well you need the following, in order of importance:-
1.   Skill, this involves more then just the ability to load the rod and release the weight properly.    The caster needs to obtain the maximum out of the various components.  Even a certain shape casting weight makes a difference.
2.   Rod, suited to your casting style, strength, & casting weight.
3.   Reel, with fairly light mono and strong leader.   I'll go with a magged reel, but I think a reel without any cast control device is probably better.  (a spinning reel would use braid)

I am not a competition dry caster, but note that there is a huge difference between standing on an open field with your feet properly planted and making a deliberate cast, against standing on an uneven surface, with slippery rocks or upward sloping ground behind you while keeping your one eye on approaching waves.

I think that "skill" is probably the most important component, therefore perhaps other factors including reel position, have a somewhat lesser impact.

I have never been able to cast more then 135 mt. without bait, regardless of what I tried but have seen some rather large guys in Namibia making longer casts, with bait!

For sliding they use a very stiff strong long rod that can cast a heavy grapnel weight a long way, again I am not a bait fisherman and have never tried it.

Cor, thanks for your input.

I realize my last few posts may have sounded harsh, but god forbid someone reading this forum for advice show up on the cliffs with a full-on harness strapped to a low-mount 6/0. Will the persons who recommended that setup for ulua fishing take responsibility should the angler get pulled in?

For safety reasons, high reel positions on a slide-bait rod allow one to fight a large fish with the rod in the holder if needed. It also gives the angler opportunity to plant the rod butt in a crevice in the rocks for more leverage, or to rest during the fight while still maintaining control of the reel. Don't think there's a reducer made that's sturdy enough to take that kind of pressure.

There are other reasons that fall more under personal preference, but those two are the main ones why low-reel isn't as widely used here to slide-bait as it is elsewhere.

Chad

That makes sense to me.

I have seen exceptions to the rod type, and setup for guys using kites, floats  (i.e. air filled trash bags), kayak, and drones to deploy their baits, when casting isn't the primary method used to deploy baits from shore.. but now I am digressing.

Although there has been some swaying here from the origional post topic, I think there is some good info here.  It's interesting to hear perspectives from different locals, and, and the styles of fishing, and associated gear used.

Good stuff, I say.

Hi All,

The original posting was for information about blanks in the 13' range for casting for GTs. Later, it was added that sliding was the main method for use of the rod. Those were the only criteria by the original poster. Hawaii and rock platforms, and the need for accessories to facilitate 'tea breaks' were added by others.

What I have offered has been how we best effect sliding in a surf casting situation here in southern Africa, and to catch sharks and GT, depending on location. It does not mention full body harnesses for the angler, it does not mention that the angler needs to take 'tea breaks' during the fight, nor the need for a 6/0 reel, nor that low reel is the only way to go.

What I have suggested is that the composition of the blank needs to be very specific, with a softer tip to best effect sliding, stiff blanks pull out the sinker/grapnel during the sliding out of the bait. Longer rods have been found to be best in our locale for this method - some special designs even go up to 16' just for the sliding out of the bait, and then reduced to a more manageble 14' once the bait is set.

I will admit I haven't fished this style of fishing in Hawaii, but have offered a potential different perspective - "thinking outside the traditional box", so to speak, for comparable species. In our style of fishing from the shore, we don't take 'tea breaks' to rest, we continuously fight the fish, so there is no need to develop such accessories on the rod.

A point worth considering might be that if you don't ever look at how other folks have solved a similar problem, you might never evolve. Just saying that there is only one solution to a problem, will never advance our sport

I wasn't suggesting that the original poster should even think about a custom rod from Africa to fish in Hawaii, nor the price.

So, I would take a little exception to the tone of some replies. The style of rock platform fishing that has evolved in Hawaii, has obviously come about from local needs, but then I fish where the local phrase is "Africa is not for Sissies" - tough it out and hold the rod for the full duration of the fight!!!! Stand and fight the fish, with just a simple rod belt, no harness or monster reels.

In conclusion to the original posters requirements, I would suggest a Blue Marlin T/Flex 400/6  blank as first choice, with a Purglas 400/4 as second choice - in the scheme of the poll, they would be marked down as 'Other'.

Just my humble opinion to the original posters' request.

Cheers from sunny Africa.

Jeri

Quote from: cbar45 on May 19, 2016, 05:16:42 PM

Quote from: CapeFish on May 18, 2016, 02:46:45 PM
What I find interesting is that US fly rods in all the big brands are cutting edge technology and usually lightning fast, especially the saltwater fly rods which are paired with ultra modern large arbor fly reels, but it seems others facets of shore based angling still prefer to use floppy rods with not the best casting reels and would even still consider using fiber glass rods instead of carbon? Why is this? Or do the folks on AT just generally prefer older tackle and I am getting a warped view?

No idea where the heck you are going with this.

Last I checked this thread was titled "Best Rod Blank for Ulua Shorefishing".

Specifically slide-baiting in Hawaii.

Hi CBAR
Out of interest and just asking a question, it actually does have a lot of relevance to slide baiting in Hawaii and the similar point comes up time and time again on AT, so I have been intrigued why people are still suggesting fiber glass rods for slide fishing shore casting that's all. I have fished both and for many years and a carbon rod is vastly superior on both sand and rocks for slide fishing. Carbon out performance fiber glass in ease of casting, distance, weight, shaking out the slide etc. It wasn't meant to offend you. Cheers,

Leon

Quote from: Jeri on May 20, 2016, 04:29:30 AM
Hi All,

The original posting was for information about blanks in the 13' range for casting for GTs. Later, it was added that sliding was the main method for use of the rod. Those were the only criteria by the original poster. Hawaii and rock platforms, and the need for accessories to facilitate 'tea breaks' were added by others.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the original poster--Tightlines666--IS LOCATED IN HAWAII where high cliffs and rock platforms are the norm for the Big Island. Those geographical features are encountered in select spots as well on all four other major islands--including the one on which Tightines666 resides. How then can you get on your high horse and call the method I described that works for fighting ulua here to be a "tea break"--if you don't even take the time to understand the style of fishing done, the challenges faced, and where, in fact, the original poster resides?


What I have offered has been how we best effect sliding in a surf casting situation here in southern Africa, and to catch sharks and GT, depending on location. It does not mention full body harnesses for the angler, it does not mention that the angler needs to take 'tea breaks' during the fight, nor the need for a 6/0 reel, nor that low reel is the only way to go.

I have no problem with you sharing your experiences fishing for sharks and ulua in Southern Africa. All fine and good, until you use those experiences to define the advice and recommendations you give--to someone who is fishing in an area markedly different than the beaches of South Africa. If you claim to call yourself a professional, then it is your responsibility to know when to dole out advice and when to keep it in check. Like I said, if someone new to Hawaii gets themselves or their loved ones hurt heeding your recommendations of using a low reel for slide-baiting here--then that is wholly on you. Tightlines666 has the experience and common sense to understand when an otherwise well-meant recommendation is probably not the best course of action to follow; a 13 year old child stoked on catching his first ulua in Hawaii may not have that depth of knowledge to draw from--and again if they get themselves hurt heeding what you've written, that again is on YOU.

What I have suggested is that the composition of the blank needs to be very specific, with a softer tip to best effect sliding, stiff blanks pull out the sinker/grapnel during the sliding out of the bait. Longer rods have been found to be best in our locale for this method - some special designs even go up to 16' just for the sliding out of the bait, and then reduced to a more manageble 14' once the bait is set.

In South Africa yes; but in Hawaii where the original poster resides, no. The wire bank sinkers we use to slide-bait here very rarely pull out since the bottom terrain at such spots--even on islands like Oahu and Maui--is not all sand, but a mixture of reef, rocks, and pockets of sand.

I will admit I haven't fished this style of fishing in Hawaii, but have offered a potential different perspective - "thinking outside the traditional box", so to speak, for comparable species. In our style of fishing from the shore, we don't take 'tea breaks' to rest, we continuously fight the fish, so there is no need to develop such accessories on the rod.

Great. So tell me again how does all that have bearing on the fishing challenges encountered in Hawaii, where the original poster resides? Are you just sharing your perspectives to flaunt your wisdom of what you believe is the best solution to challenges you don't even take the time to understand?


A point worth considering might be that if you don't ever look at how other folks have solved a similar problem, you might never evolve. Just saying that there is only one solution to a problem, will never advance our sport.

Where do you infer I said there was only one solution? And where in HI are the "similar problems" you speak of? No one here has need of wading far out in order to cast to the horizon for sharks, as do the anglers in SA. I mentioned I've built and fished a pair of light surf rods in the low-reel style, so I can understand the benefits they give in some situations--but not all--and definitely not for slide-baiting from the cliffs or rocks where the original poster resides. You, on the other hand, didn't even bother to answer the two questions I posed to you:

1. Are there any instances where it is practical to switch to a high-reel style and vice versa?
2. Can you explain why both high and low-reel styles are both represented in tournament casting--where only pure distance matters?

Blatantly disregarding the unique considerations of slide-baiting in Hawaii where Tightlines666 resides--and where others plan to visit--in order to push what seems to be your agenda on using long rods and low-reels, not only sets the sport back to the dark ages, but utterly destroys any trust someone just starting out fishing may have had for a so-called professional. Who the hell wants to evolve into that.

I wasn't suggesting that the original poster should even think about a custom rod from Africa to fish in Hawaii, nor the price.

So, I would take a little exception to the tone of some replies. The style of rock platform fishing that has evolved in Hawaii, has obviously come about from local needs, but then I fish where the local phrase is "Africa is not for Sissies" - tough it out and hold the rod for the full duration of the fight!!!! Stand and fight the fish, with just a simple rod belt, no harness or monster reels.

:D :D :D

In conclusion to the original posters requirements, I would suggest a Blue Marlin T/Flex 400/6  blank as first choice, with a Purglas 400/4 as second choice - in the scheme of the poll, they would be marked down as 'Other'.

Just my humble opinion to the original posters' request.

Cheers from sunny Africa.

Jeri

Quote from: CapeFish on May 18, 2016, 02:46:45 PM

Hi CBAR
Out of interest and just asking a question, it actually does have a lot of relevance to slide baiting in Hawaii and the similar point comes up time and time again on AT, so I have been intrigued why people are still suggesting fiber glass rods for slide fishing shore casting that's all. I have fished both and for many years and a carbon rod is vastly superior on both sand and rocks for slide fishing. Carbon out performance fiber glass in ease of casting, distance, weight, shaking out the slide etc. It wasn't meant to offend you. Cheers,

Leon

Leon,

The Talon and IRW blanks I spoke of elsewhere in this thread are all graphite (carbon), both intermediate and high-modulus.

I really don't want to put words into the mouth of whoever it is you are saying is suggesting fiberglass. All I'll touch on is this:

1. The old 540 Sabre mentioned in the very beginning of this thread is far from "floppy", but really a powerful rod.

2. Some who prefer glass like its durability when fishing on lava and other rough terrain.

3. Some who prefer glass have a slower casting stroke, and thus appreciate its forgiveness.

4. Some do find it easier for them to fish a graphite blank--for all the reasons you described.

Hope it helps.

Hi cbar45,

You have based a lot of what you have stated repeatedly on:

"Correct me if I'm wrong, but the original poster--Tightlines666--IS LOCATED IN HAWAII"

Which is not readily obvious from any posts until quite late in this discussion, and certainly not on 'Tightlines666' posting profile. High rock platforms, are not actually mentioned again until very late, by you. You perhaps need to read before you type, and check what information is available to the responders - as this is a global forum - the last time I checked???

You have criticised me for lack of local knowledge of this very specific fishery, but used generalisations about surf fishing in southern Africa to highlight your points. Which for your information and future benefit, are not just clean sandy beaches, but rock platforms as well, and not all fishing is done by wading, nor casting to the horizon, we also casting into rough terrain with frequency, as well as sand. Perhaps the better option to the 'shoot first, ask questions later' attitude; is to share the very specialist knowledge that you no doubt  have of this fishery, you might earn more respect.

The rest of your reply is just more of the same, and rather than engage in a protracted arguement, I will just answer the two specific questions that you have asked, out of politeness:

1. Are there any instances where it is practical to switch to a high-reel style and vice versa?

Plenty, though it is becoming more acceptable with long rod surf fishing, that control of the bottom end of the rod, while fighting larger fish, is safer on the angler to use 'reel down' combined with a simple rod belt. This manner of low reel fishing is becoming more widely accepted globally in surf circles, though some folks do prefer to stick with older traditional styles. Obviously in the very singular and unique situation of GT fishing in Hawaii, there is a case to answer. But, answer the question of how to realistically control a big fish on a rod built reel up and a long handle - without sticking the end in rock creavases, while still exerting up to 25lbs of drag through the long surf rod? Perhaps the answer is to control the bottom end with a simple rod belt?

2. Can you explain why both high and low-reel styles are both represented in tournament casting--where only pure distance matters?

Probably a case of proficiency, while the very upper level tournament casters as a rule achieve better results with low reel designs. It takes a mastery of slightly different skill set to cast with reel down, to those that the majority of casters first learn, which is reel up. Look to the vast majority of pictures and video of the likes of Danny Moeskops, and you will see your answer. Are you going to challenge his achievements of distance casting with the reel down? Let me answer that for you - NO, as he holds just about every distance record for tournament casting. There are also some very sound arguements based in physics which favour reel down as the more likely to induce more power into a long rod cast.

In closing, this has gone more than far enough, so please no need to reply to any of the above. I bow to your infinitely more intimate knowledge of surf fishing in Hawaii!

As it is getting late in Hawaii, might I suggest a small African tradition - of taking a sundowner. A long cool beverage of your choice to enjoy and relax, while watching the sun go down - to forget the stresses of the day.

Cheers from sunny Africa.

Jeri, that long cool beverage was nice. I have nothing more to say save for this:

I am not the one from South Africa posting replies to a thread started elsewhere about the "Best Rod Blank for Ulua Shorefishing"

You are, and thus it is your duty to make sure you're on point--fully understanding and mentally acknowledging where each member is coming from with their questions and advice.

There were more than a few context clues early on which hinted at the thread being in reference to HI; I hope it's not the denseness of petty arrogance that led you to just go about typing what you wish--without first recognizing them.

I've been a member here for only a short while--but if you actually took some time--instead of assuming I'm shooting first/asking questions later--you would see that I have gladly shared information on the very topic this thread is based on, multiple times, elsewhere on the forum.

Hi,

I've got a few hours before my 'sundowner'!!!

You talk of 'duty' to reply 'on point'. Sure later in the post there were direct references to Hawaii. I have often suggested in posts that it be near compulsory for people to put their location in their published profile - so as to avoid this sort of specific problem - unique locations or anything else.

To that end, please do me the honour of not referring to me as being from South Africa, I live and reside in Namibia, a completely different sovereign country - as stated in my profile. It is with great pride that i have in the past and do so in the future represent Namibia in International surf competitions. Shame we never see teams from America or even Hawaii come across for the events - we might learn something new as well.

Cheers from sunny Africa.

Jeri

A low-mount rod-and-reel in use with a belt braced on the angler, as described in your answer to Question #1, does not generate the same amount of leverage as does bracing the stainless rod butt itself into the rocks.

Besides improved leverage, having the reel mounted high on a rod--solidly supported by either the rocks or in the holder--allows one the following safety benefits which I've tried to bring up more than once.

1. Supported footing on uneven or slippery rocks, often times at the edge of a cliff.
2. Opportunity for your muscles to rest and recover while the fish is taking line.
3. A backup/emergency means (holder) of fighting the fish while minimizing strain, should the angler feel it necessary.

Bottom line: When slide-baiting for very large fish off a rocky cliff, you do not want to be connected to your equipment--whether via belt, harness, etc--in such a way that it's possible to be pulled over the edge.

Secondly, I am not a distance caster. So can't answer your question of why there are no HI or American teams in your events. But you might want to look up the casting expo/tournament held by Jerry Valentine on Oahu during the mid-late 90's.

Specifically, at the techniques of--and distances set--by local shore fishermen/women using gear they normally fished with, (not dedicated tourney equipment). i.e, 40, 60, and 80 lb. monofilament lines--along with the typical ulua rods of that time on which were mounted Penn Jigmaster, Senator 4/0, and Senator 6/0 sized reels.

If I recall correctly the Jigmaster bracket using 40lb. line produced a cast in the area of 170 yds. 80lb. line and 6/0 produced a cast of around 150 yd. Although the low-mount position was demonstrated, all of the casts mentioned were with those large boat/trolling reels mounted up high.  

Again in closing, I've no problem with you sharing your methods sliding bait from the beach. Indeed, that can spark someone's insight or aid another in learning. However, if you are going to be making recommendations--on reel positioning or anything else--please take the time to actually try the techniques and equipment you speak of, in a setting akin to the locale where they will be used by others.

Hi

I was suggesting that it is better - without external influences or aids - like rocks, rod holders, cars, fighting chairs, etc. I am perhaps a little guided by our surf fishing regulations - the angler will have NO external aids, apart from a rod belt.

I wasn't suggesting that our events are distance casting or tournaments, but actual rock and surf fishing! I'm no distance caster, too old for such a strenuous game, but fishing I can still manage.

We are very driven and orientated in our surf fishing by the prevailing competition regulations down here, as the competition factor places a huge part in developing new systems, and new designs of equipment. It is an exceptionally strong aspect to nearly all surf fishing, and very tribal in nature as well.

Cheers from sunny Africa.

Jeri

Quote from: Tightlines666 on May 19, 2016, 09:24:12 PM

I have seen exceptions to the rod type, and setup for guys using kites, floats  (i.e. air filled trash bags), kayak, and drones to deploy their baits, when casting isn't the primary method used to deploy baits from shore.

The trash-bag/flagline method, (of floating a bait 300 yds. or so offshore), necessitates a hooked fish battle the drag of all that line--plus the float/s which are attached.

Fish caught via that method are usually tired out in short order, and very docile inshore and up to the gaff.
A fish hooked on the slide in contrast, can fight hard right up to the end. The trash-bag method also differs in that the short trolling rods, paired with 12/0 or 14/0 reels, allow one to simply winch in a fish after it has sufficiently tired.

Fishing in this manner is generally considered to be for sustenance, rather than sport.

QuoteFishing in this manner is generally considered to be for sustenance, rather than sport.

That's why I do it.  I'm a food fisherman, not a sports fisherman.

Incidentally, I have tried the reel mounted low on the rod, and found it to be disadvantageous.

Quote from: cbar45 on May 19, 2016, 05:15:22 PMI understand how some might find it advantageous to cast low-reel while fishing.

I've even built a pair of low-reel rods, (not ulua rods but light surf rods), for my own use, as I was curious and found I could appreciate their benefits.

But, can you explain why both high and low-reel styles are represented in the tournament casting circuit--where pure distance is all that matters?

Are there instances when it's practical to switch to a high-reel style and vice versa? Or should anglers the world over convert to low-reel for all their casting needs, since it works so well for some locales?

This thread was about choosing a blank to slide bait for ulua in Hawaii. It would make sense that such a blank and methods discussed be centered aound that pupose. I would hate for someone to fork over $450 for a custom low-mount slide bait rod--because they read on the internet it was a superior choice--then arrive in the islands and find their new setup is a misery to use on the high rocks.

Best of both worlds . . . Use two reel seats on the rod, one LOW for the cast, then switch the reel to the HIGH reel seat for fishing ! 

Thoughts ?

Tight Lines !

Quote from: Jeri on May 20, 2016, 04:29:30 AMIn conclusion to the original posters requirements, I would suggest a Blue Marlin T/Flex 400/6  blank as first choice, with a Purglas 400/4 as second choice - in the scheme of the poll, they would be marked down as 'Other'.

Hmm . . . I have a Purglas 350/3 ( Excellent 4oz - 6oz Rod ) that I got off eBay, several years ago . . . Are there any dealers for Purglas ( Full line of Rods & Blanks ) in the USA ?

Tight Lines !

Hi 'ez2cdave',

The Purglas company was sold by the original owner a couple of years ago to a company based near Johannesburg, and they have been trying to recapture their position in the local market, after spending too many years focussing on trying to develop overseas markets. So, I think that all the US contacts that were taking Purglas rods or blanks have fallen by the wayside, I might be wrong.

They are still struggling to develop surf blanks with the more modern carbon fibres, so their products are still very heavy by comparison to some of the other local manufacturers who have long since invested time and effort with modern fibres, and are even today moving forward with the more recent developed carbon fibres from Mitsibushi.

Some might say that they were a good blank 20 years ago, but to still have those same blanks as your top of range blanks today, seems a little 'hopeful' in a world where everyone else is amost continually developing improved products. A comparable blank to the Purglas 350/3 would be a Blue Marlin T/Flex /5, an awesome blank, but weighs 2/3rds the weight of the Purglas. More current blanks would be the Super Slim range, and they are just way beyond the very large bore Purglas, they would easily fit 'inside' the Purglas blank - they are that slim and powerful.

Cheers from sunny Africa,

Jeri

Quote from: Jeri on December 27, 2016, 05:42:14 AM
Hi 'ez2cdave',

The Purglas company was sold by the original owner a couple of years ago to a company based near Johannesburg, and they have been trying to recapture their position in the local market, after spending too many years focussing on trying to develop overseas markets. So, I think that all the US contacts that were taking Purglas rods or blanks have fallen by the wayside, I might be wrong.

They are still struggling to develop surf blanks with the more modern carbon fibres, so their products are still very heavy by comparison to some of the other local manufacturers who have long since invested time and effort with modern fibres, and are even today moving forward with the more recent developed carbon fibres from Mitsibushi.

Some might say that they were a good blank 20 years ago, but to still have those same blanks as your top of range blanks today, seems a little 'hopeful' in a world where everyone else is amost continually developing improved products. A comparable blank to the Purglas 350/3 would be a Blue Marlin T/Flex /5, an awesome blank, but weighs 2/3rds the weight of the Purglas. More current blanks would be the Super Slim range, and they are just way beyond the very large bore Purglas, they would easily fit 'inside' the Purglas blank - they are that slim and powerful.

Cheers from sunny Africa,

Jeri

Jeri,

Thanks for the information and update about Purglas. I looked up Blue Marlin and the same problem seems to exist . . . No USA Dealers !

Most of their surf blanks seem to be 1-piece . . . Big transportation problem and huge shipping costs, too !

http://www.bluemarlinfishingrods.co.za/products/surf-blanks (http://www.bluemarlinfishingrods.co.za/products/surf-blanks)

Too bad the website doesn't list specifications . . .

Dave

Looks like I missed a lot, and a lot to read.

Hi Dave,

We deal a lot with Blue Marlin, unfortunately their range is very extensive, so putting up specs is a major task, as well as always changing. They do however do a lot of 2 piece and 3 piece blanks, basically versions of their 1 piece rods. The big thing down here is commercial integrity, as anyone doing a lot of research and development has to keep their product information quite limited, as there are long queues of people willing to just copy it. In the extreme, some folks even buy Blue Marlin products send it to China, and try to have the same product 'reverse engineered' to get a cheaper version - without the expense of doing the development work.

Blue Marlin have focussed their main efforts on the quite large local market, and to that end risen to the top of the game. Their products are very good, and we use a lot, as well as 'specials' which are made for us only. Their 3 piece 14' surf range is very popular with some of our clients in Australia, as they just can't seem to get anything near equivalent in performance for large fish and sharks from the surf. As you say there is an issue of the cost of freight, we tend to build orders that are based on 3 people sharing the cost, then it becomes more reasonable for the 5' long tube with 3 rods in it. We have also sent a few to main land US, but again an issue with freight expense.

The aspect for our local southern African fisheries and the designs of rods is somewhat different to other places in the world, where here we will get a whole range of almost identical looking blanks, all built on a single mandrel, but progressively with increasing numbers of wraps of carbon, so increasing in strength - hence the old 'stroke' numbers, were the ratings of strength, but Blue Malrin and Purglas never unified their numbering systems, so a lot of local confusion. Hence a Purglas /3 would be similar to a Blue Marlin /5. With Purglas pretty much dropping out of the picture, Blue Marlin have now adopted a more finite system of recommendations for sinker weight for each blank design.

To further add to the confusion, we now have blanks specifically designed and built for multipliers and a similar but structurally different design for fixed spools - but all equally rated for sinker sizing. This continual evolution of our blanks, along with changing fishing styles presents huge problems for the folks at Blue Marlin keeping their range updated and also their web site.

Hope that helps

Cheers from sunny Africa,

Jeri

Quote from: Jeri on December 27, 2016, 06:37:18 AM
Hi Dave,

We deal a lot with Blue Marlin, unfortunately their range is very extensive, so putting up specs is a major task, as well as always changing. They do however do a lot of 2 piece and 3 piece blanks, basically versions of their 1 piece rods. The big thing down here is commercial integrity, as anyone doing a lot of research and development has to keep their product information quite limited, as there are long queues of people willing to just copy it. In the extreme, some folks even buy Blue Marlin products send it to China, and try to have the same product 'reverse engineered' to get a cheaper version - without the expense of doing the development work.

Blue Marlin have focussed their main efforts on the quite large local market, and to that end risen to the top of the game. Their products are very good, and we use a lot, as well as 'specials' which are made for us only. Their 3 piece 14' surf range is very popular with some of our clients in Australia, as they just can't seem to get anything near equivalent in performance for large fish and sharks from the surf. As you say there is an issue of the cost of freight, we tend to build orders that are based on 3 people sharing the cost, then it becomes more reasonable for the 5' long tube with 3 rods in it. We have also sent a few to main land US, but again an issue with freight expense.

The aspect for our local southern African fisheries and the designs of rods is somewhat different to other places in the world, where here we will get a whole range of almost identical looking blanks, all built on a single mandrel, but progressively with increasing numbers of wraps of carbon, so increasing in strength - hence the old 'stroke' numbers, were the ratings of strength, but Blue Malrin and Purglas never unified their numbering systems, so a lot of local confusion. Hence a Purglas /3 would be similar to a Blue Marlin /5. With Purglas pretty much dropping out of the picture, Blue Marlin have now adopted a more finite system of recommendations for sinker weight for each blank design.

To further add to the confusion, we now have blanks specifically designed and built for multipliers and a similar but structurally different design for fixed spools - but all equally rated for sinker sizing. This continual evolution of our blanks, along with changing fishing styles presents huge problems for the folks at Blue Marlin keeping their range updated and also their web site.

Hope that helps

Cheers from sunny Africa,

Jeri

Jeri,

Isn't it very difficult to choose the right rod blank from Blue Marlin, if they don't give the specifications for it ?  Line weight range . . . Casting weight range . . . Action ( Slow, Moderate, Fast, etc ), Power ( L, M, MH, H, XH, etc ) . . . Blank Weight . . . Butt Diameter & Tip Size, too !

Purglas did supply some "numbers" for their blanks & rods, including PRICES, which Blue Marlin does not . . . ( PURGLAS PDF's velow )

Hi Dave,

They have over 250 different blanks in their current catalogue, that doesn't include specials or models that are older than 5 years. They don't deal direct with the public, and rely on their dealers to know the blank performances and specs. I do deal in their blanks, as we use a variety in our custom rod building, and pretty much know all the sizes and specs most folks might wish to know, and example might be the Super Slim 3 piece, 6-7oz, is available in 3 different lengths (4.00, 4.20 & 4.30 metres long), it has a casting weight recommendation of 6 or 7oz plus moderate baits, and has a butt diameter of 23.2mm, and a tip of 4.3mm diameter for the fixed spool version, and 3.6mm for the multiplier version, weighs about 450 grams.

They don't specify line weights, as that is a very confusing constrain in surf fishing, as the majority of the time folks would b e using a casting leader to prevent 'crack-offs' by the sinker during casting, and then the main line strength or diameter becomes 'mute'. Add to that some of the rods/blanks are also used with braided lines, then line diameter becomes a seriously un-important issue, except perhaps to the caster - use a too thick a line, and obviously distance will suffer, while too thin a line and the oceanic or sea conditions will be too strong for that line.

I personally, use one of the 1 piece derivations of the same blank for the majority of my competition surf angling, and will change spools on my reels for different conditions and requirements, 25lb braid when absolute distance is paramount, then 30lb braid for normal conditons, and when larger sharks might be in the area, I'll up to 40lb braid, some will use 50lb braid - it is all dependant on the conditions prevailing.

Power is pretty much determined by the casting weight these days, though unlike US blanks the action is more tip orientated, than 'through'; this is very much what the local conditions in southern Africa require.

As said, they don't really look to cater for foriegn markets, so their reliance on local dealers to cater for local anglers is their route. Price lists are very much company/dealer orientated, and not generally available to the public. Price setting in southern African countries is not an acceptable practice.

We have had many conversations on this very topic on how to better transfer the quite technical information about a blank performance to the general public, and never really come up with a satisfactory solution - we even went down the route of exploring 'test curves' to try and give an indication of power potential, but that proved too confusing. The problems of technical specifications become even more complex, when you start to add in the various strength of carbon fibre cloths used, and even more so, when a variety (2 or more) of different strength carbon cloths are used in the same blank, and what proportions of each. Add to that the variables in action  and possibly power with single strength carbon cloth blanks, and the whole story starts to get seriously confusing for the average angler.

Ultimately, it is a little like all the various 'Tournament Trolling' blanks that are available from all the different US companies, and whether they are 'East Coast' or 'West Coast' rated. There are huige variations in final performance within just that limited variety of blanks. Then add the options of Fenwick, Sabre, Calstar or others, and the options of different glass construction or glass + carbon or full carbon. The variety is endless, and you then need to take wisdom from the dealers as to exactly which will be best suited for your intended purpose.

Confused??? - I am|!!

Cheers from sunny Africa.

jeri

So, after all that information and the deluge of "I'm right, you're not" ego, is the voting still goin on and/or is there a winner?
Gfish

Quote from: Jeri on December 27, 2016, 03:44:01 PMThey don't deal direct with the public, and rely on their dealers to know the blank performances and specs. I do deal in their blanks, as we use a variety in our custom rod building, and pretty much know all the sizes and specs most folks might wish to know . . .

jeri

Jeri,

How do the Dealers know the performance and specs ?

Does Blue Marlin provide them with specific information ?

As you said, they have over 250 different blanks . . . Playing a "guessing game" is never a good thing, especially with expensive items from halfway around the world !

Tight Lines !

Quote from: Gfish on December 27, 2016, 04:12:50 PM
So, after all that information and the deluge of "I'm right, you're not" ego, is the voting still goin on and/or is there a winner?
Gfish

Well, judging by the Results Tally at the top of the page, it looks like TALON is the "Leader" ( by Name ), so far . . . HOWEVER, "Other" is the "Winner", at this point - LOL !

I'll throw another "Other" name into the hat, JEFF ANDREWS . . . The Hawaiian guys will know the name instantly !

Tight Lines !

Ah yes..

I definately should've added Jeff Andrews to this poll at the start.

John

Talons  stiff rod lots of power and great warranty
plenty of models to chose from also

I personally have had good luck with my XH nitros. They are customed wrapped and have been fished for about a decade fairly regularly and have proven to be solid, may not say they are the best blank but cant complain. I also have seeker, fenwick and Hawaiian angler poles, I've been happy with.

Quote from: Fishamen7 on January 10, 2017, 09:06:47 AM
Talons  stiff rod lots of power and great warranty
plenty of models to chose from also

Link to TALON Ulua blanks . . .

http://www.talon-graphite.com/Blank%20section/Saltwater%20Blank%20sub%20folders/Uluasaltwaterblanks.htm (http://www.talon-graphite.com/Blank%20section/Saltwater%20Blank%20sub%20folders/Uluasaltwaterblanks.htm)

Tight Lines !

Does anyone remember the manufacturing date of this Hawaiian Angler made for Izuo Bros by Seeker? I'm thinking 70's-80's but not sure.

Quote from: Tightlines666 on December 27, 2016, 11:52:42 PM
Ah yes..

I definately should've added Jeff Andrews to this poll at the start.

John

As a follow up . . .

From the thread at this link, it appears that Jeff Andrews passed away a few years ago. The information is supplied by "MAKAI", who claims to be Jeff Andrews nephew.

http://2coolfishing.net/ttmbforum/showthread.php?t=2137625&page=2 (http://2coolfishing.net/ttmbforum/showthread.php?t=2137625&page=2)

Tight Lines !

Just read thru this. Wow. In answer to the question about the seeker they weren't around in the 70's. If I was a betting man I'd say that's a seeker 10' ulua that they made a 4' extension for that fit on he butt end for ulua fishing in Hawaii   They still sell a ton of ulua blanks but not sure if they still make the extension. They came in straight fiberglass or in combination with graphite at the butt end. Late to the party but hope that helps Wailua boy. Still fish the heck out of those seeker uluas