Hey Y'all,
I was able to pick up a nice Stradic 4000FJ on Ebay for a good deal. The box arrived today and I picked up the reel and noticed that the Anti-Reverse mechanism wasn't working right. The seller stated everything was in good working order, so before I e-mail him about the reel I wanted to tinker around and see if it was a simple problem.
I broke the reel down and I am able to engage and disengage the mechanisms lock, but I am still able to move the reels handle forward and back. Any thoughts?
(http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i126/gatrapper/IMG_4462_zps7de9e0c0.jpg) (http://s71.photobucket.com/user/gatrapper/media/IMG_4462_zps7de9e0c0.jpg.html)
(http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i126/gatrapper/IMG_4463_zps8448149e.jpg) (http://s71.photobucket.com/user/gatrapper/media/IMG_4463_zps8448149e.jpg.html)
So, the lever (Anti-Reverse Cam) you are showing is a "switch" that turns the AR on or off. It has to fit properly in a metal plate in the Roller Clutch Assembly that it then flips back and forth allowing you to "back reel" with the handle.
If you take a look at this tutorial:
http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=5046.0
You can see how the cam fits into the clutch.
If you need to rebuild the clutch (not hard, but can be a mystery with no guidance) look up a post by mattK titled "roller clutch on Sedona" that will show you how to do it.
There is no schematic from Shimano and the whole Assembly is sold only as one.
Thanks. I re-did the clutch. When I took everything apart it looks looked like it was already in the desired position, but I made sure to double check everything.
If this isn't the problem, do you have any other ideas? Is there a way I can check to see if this is the problem without putting the entire reel back together?
If the Clutch is assembled properly you should be able to move the plate back and forth simply by holding it in place over the Cam and flipping the cam back and forth. Then throw in the screws that retain it and add the handle. It should work fine before you have to replace the rotor.
Put on the roller clutch assembly and I still have the same problem. :-\ :-\
As stated above you may have to attempt to rebuild the roller clutch assembly or replace it all together (shimano is listing this part as currently out of stock though) if this is the culprit. You should be able to test the function of all three components involved in the Antireverse properties of the reel while it is disassembled to properly diagnose your problem. If your not comfortable performing the rebuild, you may want to consider sending it to your nearest authorized shimano service center to be repaired. Though make sure they work on spinners first. If it's over 1 year old and/or you were not given the original receipt, it is likely no longer covered under warranty.
Quote from: gatrapper on June 02, 2014, 11:55:10 PM
Put on the roller clutch assembly and I still have the same problem. :-\ :-\
If I understand correctly the handle will not turn in either direction ie reel is frozen up?
Hey GatTrapper
If you have a look under that bearing there is a stainless/chromed sleeve.
Reverse that sleeve and try again.
I can't find the sleeve you are talking about. Where can I order an roller clutch assembly and how much do they normally run? Would I be better off returning the reel?
the sleeve is a big "hat-shaped" bushing that the A/R rollers grab to stop rotation. it sits on top of the pinion bearing, inside the A/R assembly (not shown in schematics; not sold separately). it easily falls out if you remove the rotor, switch off the A/R, and turn the reel upside-down. if it's missing or flipped, the A/R won't work -- there's nothing for the rollers to grab
Quote from: gatrapper on June 03, 2014, 10:17:48 AM
I can't find the sleeve you are talking about. Where can I order an roller clutch assembly and how much do they normally run? Would I be better off returning the reel?
Sorry you are having such trouble but with a little more patience we can probably get you sorted. The Roller Clutch Assembly is sold by Shimano USA and runs around $20. Unfortunately, we haven't determined for certain that is your problem so ordering the part is premature.
The sleeve sits inside the RCA and is "slotted" or "keyed" to the main shaft. If you lift off the RCA simply turn it over and the sleeve will drop out in your hand. If someone put it in upside down you can have this trouble.
While the RCA is removed confirm for us that the reel turns fine back and forth without it. That way we know for sure it is not a problem deeper in the reel.
best
I really appreciate y'all's help. I'm teaching right now (planning time), but when I get home is there anything that I can take a photo or video of to try and help y'all diagnose the problem?
I'll take a look at what Philaroman and John said in their replies and get back to y'all.
Thanks for everyone's patience.
(http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i126/gatrapper/IMG_4466_zpsf35a40b7.jpg) (http://s71.photobucket.com/user/gatrapper/media/IMG_4466_zpsf35a40b7.jpg.html)(http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i126/gatrapper/IMG_4467_zps4a030d72.jpg) (http://s71.photobucket.com/user/gatrapper/media/IMG_4467_zps4a030d72.jpg.html)
(http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i126/gatrapper/IMG_4475_zps8ad19277.jpg) (http://s71.photobucket.com/user/gatrapper/media/IMG_4475_zps8ad19277.jpg.html)(http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i126/gatrapper/IMG_4476_zps1fb63d28.jpg) (http://s71.photobucket.com/user/gatrapper/media/IMG_4476_zps1fb63d28.jpg.html)
When the RCA is off the reel moves forward fine, but when I go to reel backwards the piston part of the reel kinda pops out.
Quote from: gatrapper on June 03, 2014, 08:48:01 PM
When the RCA is off the reel moves forward fine, but when I go to reel backwards the piston part of the reel kinda pops out.
yea, that is normal. the helical gearing does that.
But what I see in your photos is that a part is missing. This is the aforementioned sleeve that is keyed to the pinion and fits inside the RCA at the heart of overall function.
Other than that the RCA looks totally fine.
Where can I order one, where does it go, and how much does it cost? Is it something a novice can do?
This piece?
(http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i126/gatrapper/IMG_4477_zps175c0ad9.jpg) (http://s71.photobucket.com/user/gatrapper/media/IMG_4477_zps175c0ad9.jpg.html)
When you assemble the RCA you must slightly turn the cover to catch the springs the right way or it won't work even though it all looks perfect. Maybe John can explain.
Quote from: gatrapper on June 03, 2014, 09:49:26 PM
Where can I order one, where does it go, and how much does it cost? Is it something a novice can do?
Good news and bad news :).
The good news is that you can drop it in like, easy as pie. Far easier than anything you have done so far.
The bad news is that it is not sold separately. The RCA is sold as an assembly only. :(
Call Shimano customer service on their 800 number. Pretty sure the assembly with sleeve is like $20 or so.
best
Quote from: gatrapper on June 03, 2014, 10:05:49 PM
This piece?
(http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i126/gatrapper/IMG_4477_zps175c0ad9.jpg) (http://s71.photobucket.com/user/gatrapper/media/IMG_4477_zps175c0ad9.jpg.html)
No, that's the spool clicker with some shims to adjust line lay.
Looking at your picture see how the springs are sticking out? Slightly turn the cover clockwise as you place it back on the RCA so it catches the springs and puts them under pressure to push on the rollers. I will see if I have the sleeve needed to fix your reel.
Quote from: handi2 on June 03, 2014, 10:07:54 PM
When you assemble the RCA you must slightly turn the cover to catch the springs the right way or it won't work even though it all looks perfect. Maybe John can explain.
best I can do is refer you to that Mattk post "roller clutch on Sedona". It should not surprise us that a full photo tutorial is needed to do this Japanese nesting puzzle.
Shimano kills me sometimes. They certainly have their QC issues like anyone else once in awhile, but you cannot fault the attention to detail in their engineering. Some would say less is more, others pursue the best regardless of complexity.
Quote from: handi2 on June 03, 2014, 10:12:40 PM
Looking at your picture see how the springs are sticking out? Slightly turn the cover clockwise as you place it back on the RCA so it catches the springs and puts them under pressure to push on the rollers. I will see if I have the sleeve needed to fix your reel.
X2
I did twist the top of the RCA and none of the springs are sticking out.
Is this the piece?
(http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i126/gatrapper/IMG_4478_zps9f3435a3.jpg) (http://s71.photobucket.com/user/gatrapper/media/IMG_4478_zps9f3435a3.jpg.html)
That's it ;).
If I remember correctly...
Wooo hoooo! Got it to work!!! I don't know what I did, but I went and took every single piece of the reel apart and slowly put it together (like 10 times) again making sure everything was exactly perfect. I put some Cals grease on certain parts and after a dozen or so new grey hairs the reel is working.
I can't thank y'all enough for sticking with me on this post and helping me out!
Quote from: gatrapper on June 04, 2014, 01:05:24 AM
Wooo hoooo! Got it to work!!! I don't know what I did, but I went and took every single piece of the reel apart and slowly put it together (like 10 times) again making sure everything was exactly perfect. I put some Cals grease on certain parts and after a dozen or so new grey hairs the reel is working.
I can't thank y'all enough for sticking with me on this post and helping me out!
Probably had the sleeve upside down as above. Stoked we could help you (that is, if we did at all other than encouragement). :D