I tried upgrading the old hard washers in my 3/0 because they got sticky at higher drag settings. First I tried the ht-100 stack and found that when i tightned the star down it became hard to turn, and after a few turns it went back to normal but the drag backs off a couple pounds. Thought maybe it would work with carbontex, but I got the same problem. When I put the original hard washers back in the problem didnt occur. Any clue what would cause this in a star drag reel?
Sometimes when upgrading drag stacks in older Senators —-
A few things may occur —-
Hopefully you are greasing the HT-100's with Cal's.
Sometimes if going to thinner drags (5-stack) the stack is too high and needs to be a 4-stack.
Sometimes the spring washer on top of the stack is too tall.
Sometimes the main gear was not cleaned properly —- or the "ear grooves" don't go all of the way to the bottom inside of the gear.
Under gear washer is not smooth, or worn out.
Upon reassembly, the top eared washer is not in the grooves.
Spacer has rough edges.
It is all fixable —- just needs a little more finesse.
Best, Fred
Quote from: foakes on November 20, 2022, 07:15:46 PMSometimes when upgrading drag stacks in older Senators —-
A few things may occur —-
Hopefully you are greasing the HT-100's with Cal's.
Sometimes if going to thinner drags (5-stack) the stack is too high and needs to be a 4-stack.
Sometimes the spring washer on top of the stack is too tall.
Sometimes the main gear was not cleaned properly —- or the "ear grooves" don't go all of the way to the bottom inside of the gear.
Under gear washer is not smooth, or worn out.
Upon reassembly, the top eared washer is not in the grooves.
Spacer has rough edges.
It is all fixable —- just needs a little more finesse.
Best, Fred
Thanks Fred. I did apply cals grease but that didn't make a difference. My first instinct was that the stack was a little too thick one way or another. Thanks for the insight.
Also should add the number of washers was the same for both ht100 and carbontex
Quote from: sebastianr240 on November 20, 2022, 08:42:26 PMQuote from: foakes on November 20, 2022, 07:15:46 PMSometimes when upgrading drag stacks in older Senators —-
A few things may occur —-
Hopefully you are greasing the HT-100's with Cal's.
Sometimes if going to thinner drags (5-stack) the stack is too high and needs to be a 4-stack.
Sometimes the spring washer on top of the stack is too tall.
Sometimes the main gear was not cleaned properly —- or the "ear grooves" don't go all of the way to the bottom inside of the gear.
Under gear washer is not smooth, or worn out.
Upon reassembly, the top eared washer is not in the grooves.
Spacer has rough edges.
It is all fixable —- just needs a little more finesse.
Best, Fred
Thanks Fred. I did apply cals grease but that didn't make a difference. My first instinct was that the stack was a little too thick one way or another. Thanks for the insight.
Also should add the number of washers was the same for both ht100 and carbontex
Just an FYI. HT-100 and Carbontex are basically the same thing
Are you able to post photos? What gear sleeve are you using?
It seems to me that something is boogered up and is causing your initial resistance/drag but then when turning the star further you go through that spot and things loosen up again...is that what you're explaining to us?
If so...it could be a boogered spot on your gear sleeve that could be binding your keyed washer so you get some drag from the bind but then you overcome it and you lose drag. Could also be the outer edge of your keyed washers binding in the grooves and/or I.D. of your main gear like Fred Said.
Remove and clean everything from the gear-sleeve to the drag star (don't worry about your HT-100s). Reassemble the whole stack without the HT-100s and see where (or if) it's binding. All your metal washers should free-float on the gear-sleeve and in the main gear. The eared washers should slide freely in their slots. Also check to see if the slots go all the way to the bottom of the main gear because some don't The drag star should also turn freely with no binding on the threads. If anything binds, clean it up with a stone or file. Spin your star up and down the gear-sleeve with no gears or washers to confirm that the threads are smooth.
Once everything is confirmed to fit, you can reassemble all the parts on the bridge but without the side plate. Put your greased washers in too. Now you can hold your bridge in a vise and start applying pressure with the star while turning the main gear with your other hand. You should be able to feel and see if all is well.
Quote from: day0ne on November 20, 2022, 11:28:57 PMQuote from: sebastianr240 on November 20, 2022, 08:42:26 PMQuote from: foakes on November 20, 2022, 07:15:46 PMSometimes when upgrading drag stacks in older Senators —-
A few things may occur —-
Hopefully you are greasing the HT-100's with Cal's.
Sometimes if going to thinner drags (5-stack) the stack is too high and needs to be a 4-stack.
Sometimes the spring washer on top of the stack is too tall.
Sometimes the main gear was not cleaned properly —- or the "ear grooves" don't go all of the way to the bottom inside of the gear.
Under gear washer is not smooth, or worn out.
Upon reassembly, the top eared washer is not in the grooves.
Spacer has rough edges.
It is all fixable —- just needs a little more finesse.
Best, Fred
Thanks Fred. I did apply cals grease but that didn't make a difference. My first instinct was that the stack was a little too thick one way or another. Thanks for the insight.
Also should add the number of washers was the same for both ht100 and carbontex
Just an FYI. HT-100 and Carbontex are basically the same thing
That's what I thought. Wasn't sure if maybe something was off with one or the other, that is why I tried both.
Quote from: PacRat on November 21, 2022, 12:48:39 AMAre you able to post photos? What gear sleeve are you using?
It seems to me that something is boogered up and is causing your initial resistance/drag but then when turning the star further you go through that spot and things loosen up again...is that what you're explaining to us?
If so...it could be a boogered spot on your gear sleeve that could be binding your keyed washer so you get some drag from the bind but then you overcome it and you lose drag. Could also be the outer edge of your keyed washers binding in the grooves and/or I.D. of your main gear like Fred Said.
Remove and clean everything from the gear-sleeve to the drag star (don't worry about your HT-100s). Reassemble the whole stack without the HT-100s and see where (or if) it's binding. All your metal washers should free-float on the gear-sleeve and in the main gear. The eared washers should slide freely in their slots. Also check to see if the slots go all the way to the bottom of the main gear because some don't The drag star should also turn freely with no binding on the threads. If anything binds, clean it up with a stone or file. Spin your star up and down the gear-sleeve with no gears or washers to confirm that the threads are smooth.
Once everything is confirmed to fit, you can reassemble all the parts on the bridge but without the side plate. Put your greased washers in too. Now you can hold your bridge in a vise and start applying pressure with the star while turning the main gear with your other hand. You should be able to feel and see if all is well.
I'm going to get around to taking it apart and putting back together and keep an eye out for the things you mentioned. I'll take a video of the process so you can see if anything looks out of line.
Is there a "wavy" washer under the drag star? The inconsistency could be due to the lack of one.
Quote from: MarkT on November 21, 2022, 02:09:26 AMIs there a "wavy" washer under the drag star? The inconsistency could be due to the lack of one.
Not sure. I'll get around to this and post pics
I was thinking the wavey washer too. Might be allowing the star to back off a bit
Are you using 3 or 5?
It can be configured either way using HT-100 washers.
Quote from: handi2 on November 21, 2022, 06:49:48 PMAre you using 3 or 5?
It can be configured either way using HT-100 washers.
3. Also with the carbontex set It came with a replacement for the bottom washer of the stack.