Post questions about this reel in this thread
Can we date the vintage on 14/0 with non-numbered counter balanced amber torpedo handle, rest of guts are numbered, leather / brass stack?
John
Quote from: thorhammer on May 04, 2016, 06:43:39 PM
Can we date the vintage on 14/0 with non-numbered counter balanced amber torpedo handle, rest of guts are numbered, leather / brass stack?
John
First off I would remove the handle and make sure it is has a stock cutout on handle arm and stock gear sleeve.
The reason I say that is because there never was a counterbalance handle for the 14/0 or 16/0. They were power handles from day 1.....if you have a 14/0 with a stock factory counterbalance handle, then you have a very rare find !!
Ted
Ted, sleeve looks like stock brass, and handle shows no hobbyist tooling marks whatsoever. Brige is non-numbered and chromed. Steel main and pinion.
Quote from: thorhammer on May 04, 2016, 08:56:19 PM
Ted, sleeve looks like stock brass, and handle shows no hobbyist tooling marks whatsoever. Brige is non-numbered and chromed. Steel main and pinion.
Well, if it is a stock 14/0 gear sleeve, then that is a super rare handle.
Do you have a 12/0 handle ?? you could try and see if it fits, and if it does, then its a 12/0 gear sleeve.
Ted,
The 12/0 and up have the same size handle hole.
Photos of the headplate and handle please?
Working on it; phones going a lil haywire this week.
Quote from: Shark Hunter on May 04, 2016, 09:19:10 PM
Ted,
The 12/0 and up have the same size handle hole.
Are you certain about that Daron ??
The catalog shows a 24-116 as for a 10/0 and 12/0, then a 24-117 for a 14/0 & 16/0. I'm pretty sure those do not interchange
Ted
Sid, don't have a 12/0; that's a hole in the roof. :)
Quote from: Maxed Out on May 04, 2016, 11:21:20 PM
Quote from: Shark Hunter on May 04, 2016, 09:19:10 PM
Ted,
The 12/0 and up have the same size handle hole.
Are you certain about that Daron ??
The catalog shows a 24-116 as for a 10/0 and 12/0, then a 24-117 for a 14/0 & 16/0. I'm pretty sure those do not interchange
Ted
They do on the reels that are not really old. I'd say 50's and up. Yes that is the case.
I sent Adam and Tom a lot of sleeves for their ss upgrades. Take a look on Adam's website. He only sells one handle for the 116,117 and 118. It fits all three.
That is why you see that barrel handle a lot on 12/0's.
I believe the very early 14/0 and 16/0 reels used the same guts as the 12/0 . Therefore the 12/0 handle should fit.
http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=12533.90
Brian mentions the fact on Page 7 regarding his 16/0 first generation .
I think everyone is correct here.
It is my understanding that the 12/0 and 14/0 handle arms have the same size hole, but different part numbers (on numbered/later reels) since the arm is longer on the 14/0.
Ray is correct as well, the early 14/0 and 16/0 used a 12/0 bridge, gear set, sleeve, and handle arm.
John
This reel is clear as mud....I just bolted on the 14/0 Tib TBar and fits perfectly. We may have to get Mo and Randy to weigh in.
Quote from: Maxed Out on May 04, 2016, 11:21:20 PM
Quote from: Shark Hunter on May 04, 2016, 09:19:10 PM
Ted,
The 12/0 and up have the same size handle hole.
Are you certain about that Daron ??
The catalog shows a 24-116 as for a 10/0 and 12/0, then a 24-117 for a 14/0 & 16/0. I'm pretty sure those do not interchange
Ted
I say you guys are both correct. A counterbalanced 24-116 will not fit the 14/0,or 16/0. Close, but will not fit.
The later handles could be shared by both.
Here it is
Looks to me like that is a later version second gen. Version reel with the 14/0 gear set/bridge assembly. Gear is likely steel, 3-piece spool (with a mushroom pin on the arbor?). Some numbered parts might put it in the 1948-54 range. Handle appears correct for late 40s model. It is definately in te ca. 1947-54ish period.
Nailed it on spool and gears.
The build: new Tib Tbar, drag stack courtesy of Daron, which I hope brings him good karma on his own 117 next week, new 130lb, and a Thorhammer late night brace set because I'm impatient to order another. Bent flat stock to proper curve around a shovel handle, radius drawn off nearest wd40 can, cut to proper size with sawzall then file and 1000 wet/dry. I have a guy that will powder coat my aluminum bits for free, may get them blacked out and get a new black clamp to match. Turned out pretty well for what John dates as a 70 year old reel...
Beautiful John! :o
Thanks brotha, and thanks again for the help!!! This one's been hanging on the wall getting dusty for a long while, and looking at your heavy metal I figured she deserved a facelift and a new dress.
Those are some serious rod braces there!
Be carefull spooling straight mono of those 3-piece spools thoigh. They were designed for linen line and will spread/warp under pressure with mono lines. I have heard they can be fished with Dacron though I would upgrade to a single piece spool from a bushing model if I was going to fish it myself.
John
John, those rod braces look better than stock, great idea.
About that counterbalanced handle, I checked all my catalogs, mine start at catalog#8 and up.
All show no counterbalanced handle on the 14/0 and 16/0 :-\
Sal
Thanks folks!
John I did think about the mono situation; I despooled 1400 yds of 80 Dacron off of it yesterday. If I happened on a one piece spool I'd replace it. Keep your eyes out. Aluminum would look nice with the powder coated bits...
That's going a tough find John. I bet you could find someone here to trade you for that three piece though.
Scott's list price for an aluminum one is $250.
I saw that price...I paid roughly $100 when I bought the reel so I'll take my chances; I'm going to bust a gut before I bust that spool in all likelihood.
Sal, I'm 240 but will be face down, drug in the sand before those braces even breath hard....
Quote from: Alto Mare on May 06, 2016, 12:10:59 AM
...
About that counterbalanced handle, I checked all my catalogs, mine start at catalog#8 and up.
All show no counterbalanced handle on the 14/0 and 16/0 :-\
Sal
Good point Sal.
Here are some pictures from Catalog 06&07 (1938&1939) same thing, maybe it's one of the oversize handles that were offered separately (starting in 1939ish?)though I notice the 14/0 advertised length is less then the 12/0.. Likely indicating the 14/0 and 16/0 size handles were not offered in counterbalanced versions...
Its all very confusing since the early 14/0 & 16/0 reels had 12/0 guts, yet the catalog suggests they came with non counterbalanced handles. The 12/0 was listed as having a 6 1/4" overall length..
is that the same as your handle?BTW, the early nonnumbered 14/0 I owned from the same period, had a German silver non-counterbalanced handle, which I promptly transferred to my first gen 14/0.
Clear as mud. More then likely it's a 12/0 handle that has been made to fit the 14/0.
Thor,
What is up with those turnbuckles? They look aluminum too.
First pics and last look different.
We need to talk.
Good eye, they are indeed aluminum :) the first pic is the stock brace kit.
I built up the whole brace package; eyehooks are SS!!!! I'm talking to my powder coat guy today and will do the turnbuckle sleeves as well as the brace itself in black; getting black anodized aluminum rod clamp to match. Unless Ted has one of his new clamps this size, that would kill it. As I said I'm impatient so I hunted aluminum and SS turnbuckle bits (took a couple different ones to get the assembly I wanted as far as these buckles came with eyes instead of hooks and the hook style had larger, open buckles, so I Franken-buckled it lol) from local hardware stores and fabbed up the braces. That was actually a piece of bar stock I had for handle blanks to replace an Area Rule blade that stripped, but it was late and I couldn't find the 1/8" stock I got for the brace. I actually like these better, big boy toy for big boy reel. They scale to the reel nicely. I'm no machinist by any stretch and sometimes I try to do things just to see how simply they can be done with rudimentary tools, skill and local materials. no science to rounding a piece of stock but I learned the polishing right here on AT, and probably would never put in the time with the files and wet grit had I not seen the craftsmanship you guys do.
Ya'll will laugh but Thorhammer rods are built with a spool of thread sitting in a little cast iron skillet I used to melt lead in back when; I hand tension and lay every wrap. I use a lot of Trimar thread and it's very twisty on a wrapper.
I just received this 14/0 from a frien who found it in a barber shop in Alabama.
It has a 6'9 Hammel custom built rod. It's a neat find. It was used for trolling with a spool full of what looks like 60lb monofilament line.
I'll get into the reel when I can pick it up to get to get it off!!
Keith
A couple more...
Going great. The rod braces weren't tigh or corroded and came off by hand. The 2 piece rod came apart easily too.
The line was 80lb. It looked smaller next to the fat rod.
Looking better and better!!
That's an interesting rod, an old Harnell. They haven't made those for a long time. It looks like the butt is an Aftco unibutt which would have been added later. It might have been added to replace the old butt, likely a Varmac. Nice find,a barbershop of all places. I guess there's some good fishing offshore of Alabama.
Sheridan
By looking at the stickers on the rod it was customized in Morehead, NC. It is an Aftco Unibutt short straight. I can't see this being used as a standup rod.
A lot of the old Harnells had handle grips made of something similar to particle board, I forget what they called it. Some had something similar to hypalon that was white, they called those marshmallows. Both had the Harnell logo on them. Neither held up very well. Nice to see someone tried to breath new life into that old solider. Solid rod and would be a chore to use for stand-up for sure.
Sheridan
Keith, that would've been Pete Alldred; his shop was on the causeway out to Atlantic Beach. He passed away several years back, but was the local building guru on anything from fly rods for albies to BFT sticks such as yours; the Big Rock Blue Marlin is hosted out of Morehead and is one of the largest purses in fishing. I always stopped in his shop when there and picked up any advice, which he was free about giving, and to look at the large reel collection he had. I have a rod he built at least forty years ago which I'm in the process of re-wrapping. I also have one of those Harnell's with the white rubber grip, Varmac seat, and Mildrum guides. All quality tackle of a bygone time.
John
I love those old Harnell rods - the Royal range: black glass, Varmac reel seats, black wooden butts, white solid rubber (indestructible) grips and Mildrum rollers on the 80, 130 and Unlimited models (Royal V, VI and VII respectively). They have a sweet action, even though such rods have been described as flexible crow-bars.
I have both the 80 and Unlimited and would love a 130 to complete the set ;D They are definitely chair rods and would be impossible to use 'stand-up' - too long in both the tip and butt and too stiff.
A friend who fished for giant bluefin off Nova Scotia said he'd like my Unlimited to take the blank and re-build with Aftco Big Foot rollers and a bent Unibutt as it is the best blank for the job in his view. No chance! But it is too much rod for me, and I will stick with a standard 130 for the big stuff from a chair.
Chris
The Harnell I have, and that you say it is probably unlimited, is more than I want in a chair, much less standing up. I think the Varmac is a 30 or 32, almost tennis ball diameter.
Keith - What an awesome combo, thanks for sharing.
Certainly the Harnell in Keith's picture in a Royal VII Unlimited but has been fitted with a new Aftco Unibutt at some time. A great rod for giant bluefin or giant black marlin for people who like a pokey stick, though only single wrappings over the guide feet. Those Mildrum rollers can still work even if half a century or more old.
Hi Guys,
New member here with new 14/0 questions.
First off, thank-you Alan for hosting such a terrific website. The information here has been overwhelming, which leads me to my first question. I've had a pair of big water reels in storage for 25+ years. The reality of my ever increasing age is that it's time for these to move to a better home. But I'm not really sure what I have here. Based on what I've read on this site, it's definitely not 1st gen based on crank location. The PAT'D label is at 3'oclock, crank and lever nuts both have part numbers. I'm guessing 1960's(?), but I figured I'd ask folks who know far more about these than me. Thoughts?
Hi There,
From your photo's it is only possible to date your reel from 1950 (numbered parts) to 1965, when Penn shifted the logo back to it's original, 12 O'clock position. If you removed the line you would be able to see if your reel has a 3 piece spool(pre 1955) or a one piece spool, as per handi2's reel in photo's above. The one piece spools were introduced in 1955.
Cheers
Martin
#18 catalog(1954/55) says the 10/0 went to one piece cast spool, and ball bearings.
Your 10/0 has ball bearings, and under that line you'll find the one piece cast spool
Hi Ted,
The reel pictured is a 14/0 - which, along with the 16/0, came with ball bearings from day one.
I agree that the reel most probably has a one piece spool, but there is a chance that it has a 3 piece spool.
WE will never know until the line comes off!!
Cheers
Martin
Thank-you all for your replies.
Is having a 3-piece spool a good or bad thing? I've read some comments that they're not as strong, but to a collector it might have more value. The thought of taking that much line off is a bit daunting!! but I'll do it if it matters.
Thanks again for any insight...
I'm 90% certain your spool is solid one piece. In the condition its in, I don't think it matters much.
A 3 piece spool is weaker than a cast bronze or aluminum. When filled with monofilament a 3 piece will spread at the flanges and render the reel useless and a costly replacement to find a good spool. The mono will shrink and apply pressure outwards spreading the flanges. Remember these reels were developed before mono. A work around is to fill the spool first with 1/4"-1/2" with dacron to absorb the mono shrinkage. A cast 1 piece bronze spool is bullet proof, albeit HEAVY. I dont think an aluminum spool was ever made for the 117.
Bill
Bill, they do, for $366 bucks. The reel is now 117L.
Good to know, thank-you. Since I've owned it only the leader is mono with most of the line being Dacron (in the unlikely event the spool is 3-piece).
Hi Guys,
How much end play is the 117 spool supposed to have? and what is the limit of "acceptable"?
Secondly, how do you adjust it?
My smaller Senators such as the 113 have a knurled bearing end cap on the non-drive side to adjust this. My 117 end cap isn't knurled, and in fact it moves with the spool in and out with the end play. Thoughts?
here is your schematic. it's possible that the bushings/bearings are worn and should be replaced. otherwise, i would add a washer to shim the inside of the bearingss to take out the end play and center the spool.
https://mysticparts.com/Assets/images/pennparts/schematics/117l.pdf
Quote from: thorhammer on January 31, 2024, 02:34:14 PMBill, they do, for $366 bucks. The reel is now 117L.
John thank you the correction, i should have realized that. Bill